I'm Back.........and I'm Starting Over

1…6791112

Comments

  • AardvarkPepper
    AardvarkPepper Posts: 239 Tile Toppler
    edited January 2019
    @bbigler: (and @HoundofShadow for parts of this post)

    1)  I don't think I'm being clear here.  It's not going to be 10%, 20%, or 30%.  Conservatively I would say 300%.  If you want to go to upper estimates, we can say 500% and up depending on how much a player optimizes.

    To you, sure, $500, two to four hours a day for seven months, whatever.  Not a big deal.  And there are others that may spend more money and/or time.  But it's just as silly to say you're in the same boat as those spending $500 a month as it is for you to say you're in the same boat as those spending $0 a month.  It's not the same.  And I would appreciate your keeping that in mind as you continue writing your posts that I usually enjoy a good deal.

    2)  Re: HoundofShadow's slowed progress because of poorer alliance rewards in PvE:

    From the current Meet Rocket and Groot PvE at SCL 7:  alliance rewards

    Rank 26-50:  100 HP, selected 3* placement cover reward, 2 elite tokens (I think)
    Rank 51-100:  50 HP, selected 3* placement cover reward, 2 standard tokens  (I think)
    Rank 101-250:  50 HP
    Rank 251-500:  25 HP
    Rank 501+:  Nothing

    Well there's actually purple and red iso in there.  But in terms of growing roster strength, for free players it's about HP and tokens. That's what you have to watch. Iso's a limiting factor for spending players that bought roster slots.

    So over the course of - HoundofShadow cited "close to 400" - let's just call it 400.  Let's say your average event is 4 days, and though there are some weeklong or alliance boss events, let's say the prize comes out to about the same.  So let's multiply it by 100. 

    So by not being in a top 100 PvE alliance and settling for top 250, HoundofShadow gave up 100 assorted 3* covers and 200 standard tokens. Or maybe it's elite.  But let's say standard.

    For PvP at SCL 9 (because IMO players should participate at the maximum possible):  alliance rewards

    Rank 26-50:  100 HP, selected 3* placement cover reward, 2 elite tokens
    Rank 51-100:  100 HP, selected 3* placement cover reward, standard token
    Rank 101-250:  50 HP, standard token

    I think PvP is like, whatever 4 days ish too.  I mean, there's the off season and there's end of season rewards.  But eh.  So let's call it 100 x the above, plus 12 x the season rewards, which means 12 Latest Legends tokens instead of 36 elite tokens.  So another 100 assorted 3* covers, plus 12 latest legendary tokens, but he does lose out on 36 elite tokens.

    (As a side note I'll say - top 250 vs not top 250 for hybrid top 100 PvE/PvP amounts to 10,000 HP in about 400 days.  So it's really not just a top 100 thing, you always want to be in the alliance that scores the most possible, because the differences add up.)

    And let's say LL tokens are banked.  So player is up 200 assorted 3*s, up 12 latest legendary tokens, up 200 standard tokens (1/43 favored 3*, 1/43 3*s, 1/7 2*s, rest 1*s), down 30 elite tokens (1/20 favored 3*, 1/4 3*, rest 2*s)

    So let's say the tokens come to +200/43 favored 3* +200/43 3*, +200/7 2*s, -30/20 favored 3*, -30/4 3*, -210/10 2* (er yeah, is that really how favored pulls work?)  anyways +9.3 3*s, +28.57 2*s, -9 3*s, -21 2*s, net +0.3 3*s, +7.57 2*s.

    Which brings the cover equivalent / token totals to 12 Latest Legendary tokens, 200.3 3*s, +7.57 2*s.  I'm going to discard the fractions of 2*s and leave the 2*s out of this, although normally they would factor in, I'm okay with estimating on the low side for purposes of illustration.


    It takes 113 covers to max a champion.  On the one hand, tokens often come early when championing, on the other hand a player may not champion and defer rewards.  But whatever, we'll just figure 113 covers per maxed champion as a baseline, and those 200 3*s add up to 1.77 champed maxed characters, which is about 3 heroic tokens, 8 legendary tokens, and five assorted 4* covers.  I'm going to discount the heroic tokens as well.

    So when you come down to progress?  We're looking at about 20 Latest Legendary tokens, a bunch of levels on 3*s spread out (maybe not even applied to championed 3*s but whatever, the rewards can be deferred perhaps), and five 4* covers, over the course of 400 days.

    My point being - for those that got lost in the numbers - that yeah, the difference *is* significant between top 100 versus top 250.  (And noting again the side note, top 250 versus top 500 would be 10,000 HP over those 400 days).  But it's not THAT significant, and by that I don't mean "I don't think it's significant so it's not significant", nor do I mean "I don't understand it so it's not significant" - I mean, it's not significant in the sense that HoundofShadow's development is noticeably different to bbigler's.  (And did bbigler seek immediate entry into a top 100 hybrid alliance?  we wonders, yes we wonders, gollum.  And for those curious, I will state - at no time in earlier posts in this thread did bbigler bring up alliances.  I checked.)

    And yes, I rounded down - and fudging the numbers that way supports my argument that the difference, though significant, was not significant in the larger sense in this context.  But look at the precise numbers involved.  Even if you almost throw the actual in-game numbers out the window and use 30 Latest Legendary tokens as a figure instead of 20 - it *still* isn't significant in the context we're talking about here.  So even though one could with reason take exception to the particulars, the general argument is still substantiated.

    ==

    3)  And another thing.  I see "340" and "375" put about as the number of latest legendary tokens to hoard before opening.

    I don't know for sure, as I haven't tested it personally.  But my information is though Customer Service used to switch 5* covers for a character if too many of one were drawn but not another, that that stopped with the introduction of saved covers.  Also I don't know for sure as I haven't personally done the math (though if I ever sit down and write a complete article I would) - I've read it takes on the order of FIVE HUNDRED (500!) pulls from Latest Legends to have a 99% chance of three thirteen-cover 5*s.  But though I haven't done the math, it sounds about right.  The only other references I saw pretty much assumed perfect probability with a small fudge factor, which didn't even look remotely right to me.  So eh.

    Now yeah in practice one doesn't need 500 tokens, one can do it earlier if a chunk of CP is stored up.  Or maybe a player gets lucky; luck happens.  Or unlucky happens too.

    But in any event - when I talk about a 300% or more difference - again, there is that constriction factor at play for free players.  At times (not ALL the time but at SIGNIFICANT POINTS OF DEVELOPMENT) free players are either going to be stuck with lower rewards at lower SCLs, or they're going to have to sell 3*, 4*, and 5*s for iso.  And believe me when I write that it's better for them to sell 3*s, 4*s, and 5*s for iso, so they can earn better rewards at better SCLs.

    Here I am, throwing around numbers involving alliances, and over time, you can see how those numbers add up.  But playing down in SCL makes those numbers look like chump change.  It's huge.

    Mind if a player's really constricted in terms of real time available to play the game, playing down SCLs makes perfect sense.  Different players with different situations will do best playing differently.

    But disclaimers aside - what I'm getting at is if you don't grind a load, then 10%, 30%, it's not going to be.  Think 500% or 1000%.  If you grind a load AND you play optimally, if you're a free player THEN MAYBE it's only going to be 300%.  Ish.

    4)  "Why 300%?"  Well you know all those investment advice brochures that say stuff like "If you start saving $10 with every paycheck when you're 20, by the time you retire you'll be worth XYZ million.  But if you start saving $10 every paycheck when you're 30, you're only going to be XY, if 40, then only X, and if 50 you'll be searching for change in the couch" or whatever.  And why is that?  It's not just compound interest, it's also the accumulated savings over time.

    By putting money into the game, bbigler started "saving" when he was 20.  But players that DON'T put money into the game can only start "saving" when they're 50.  Until they're 50, free players are generating the infrastructure that bbigler bought outright.  That's the best way I can explain it.  It might not seem like a big deal to players that just skipped over all that by spending, but for those that actually made the journey, there's a bit more to it.

    I guess bbigler is saying there's only a 10% to 30% difference to him, because he probably figures if he spent 10% to 30% less he'd pretty much have the same progress.  But my point is it's not the same.  If you have $100 and you spend $30 of it, you have $70 left.  If you have $20 and you spend $30 of it, you owe someone ten bucks.  So on the one hand you pretty much have what you started with, on the other hand you don't have anything like what you started with, and in fact you owe someone else money.  That's the sort of difference I mean.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    Just for the record, I joined a top 1000 alliance on day 1. Then after a month, I joined a top 500 alliance. Then when I had finished champing the 3* tier and was close to busting the hoard, I joined a top 25/50 PVE and top 100 PVP hybrid alliance. I had the weakest roster of everyone, but wasn't the lowest performer. After champing 4*s, I'm now a mid-high performer in my alliance, which consists of mostly 5* players.

    In terms of competitiveness, I rank top 10/20 in PVE SCL 8 when I have the required 5*, otherwise it's top 100. In PVP, I rank top 25/50 depending on the synergy of the required character with Grockitty.

    @AardvarkPepper we'll have to agree to disagree about the timeline needed for a competitive FTP player to get 5* champs.  You're saying it would take about 3 years, I agree with @HoundofShadow that it would be closer to 13 months.
  • AardvarkPepper
    AardvarkPepper Posts: 239 Tile Toppler
    bbigler said:

    @AardvarkPepper we'll have to agree to disagree about the timeline needed for a competitive FTP player to get 5* champs.  You're saying it would take about 3 years, I agree with @HoundofShadow that it would be closer to 13 months.
    No, my guesstimate is about two years.  Quoted below.

    AardvarkPepper said:

    Back to HoundofShadow - My GUESS, though I haven't worked out the numbers, is that a free to play can make the transition to three championed 5*s in two years IF they play optimally in the sense they are prioritizing having three championed 5*s AND if they grind like h e double hockey sticks.  As I wrote, there are tradeoffs, and doing things optimally one way means doing them suboptimally in others.  I leave you to imagine how much less powerful a roster is for not having opened on the order of 500 Latest Legendary tokens  (Mind I'm not even going into buying 25 CP Latest Legends tokens as opposed to 20 CP "regular" tokens . . . anyways yeah there's tradeoffs).
    @bbigler:  You wrote posts earlier in this thread that mentioned potential to reach 5* champion status. 

    On January 3rd, you referenced "Day 222".  Another post mentioned being able to champ Loki a week ago, that is, day 215.

    bbigler said:
    OJSP said:
    bbigler said:
    Day 222 Update: My overall goal is to enter 5* play in record time to finish my restart experiment and then quit the game
    What’s your criteria for that record? Someone championed their first one on day 302 recently https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelPuzzleQuest/comments/abpwb4/champ_at_day_302/

    But, I’m quite sure one of the biggest whales did it in less than a week..
    I could have champed Loki a week ago, but that would've been foolish. My definition of entering 5* play is having 3 x 5* champs which can handle PVP. They don't have to be fast, just able to get wins. If a non-whale has accomplished this in less than 300 days, let me know. My Cable is 1 cover away from being my 2nd fully covered 5*.
    But really the major push happened a good deal earlier.  The "major push" is when a hoarding player cracks their Latest Legendary tokens.  That is almost definitionally the start of the 5* champion transition (note players that just open every token they can don't qualify, it requires a significant *hoard* of Latest Legends tokens and an informed decision to start opening them that marks the transition).

    At the time, I believe you wrote something to the effect that you wanted to develop your 4*s, which I think is correct in terms of your development at the time (which, again, I think significantly different to a free player's).  But regardless, it *was* still the start of the transition to championed 5*s, and I think if you had not intended to start the push, that you would not have opened the quoted "200 LL pulls".
    bbigler said:

    Day 164 Update (5 months):  Yesterday was the glorious day I cracked open my hoard of 200 LL pulls.  I couldn't wait any longer because my 4* progress was being stalled. This was a great jump into 4* play and set my goals for 5* champs. I definitely felt the full impact of 4* dilution when doing this. Some of my 4*s didn't even get 1 cover. To break down how my roster has improved, I'll give the before and after:
    I mentioned a figure of 300% increase of time, which works out to 400% overall.  Working off day 163 (the post on day 164 references "yesterday"), 4 * 163 = 652.  Two years is 730 days.

    You could say you weren't finished champing at the 163 day mark, and of course using day 222 as a benchmark rather than day 163 pushes the 400% estimate to 888 days, which is about two and a half years.

    But though you may choose to make that distinction, I think for a free player it is really not that clear cut.  Free players do not so much have the option of spending a chunk of money to make up a statistical gap in case they were not favored by random luck with pulls.  You could dismiss that as conjecture, but I think again it's a very real thing that you *knew* when you opened those 200 or so LL tokens on day 164, that you had that cash reserve to fall back on in case things did not quite turn out as planned.

    A free player, though, would have to bank additional LL and CP in place of using cash reserve.

    From another thread in the "Theories and Statistics" board
    bbigler said:
    Why wait for a 95% chance?  You could try it with a 85% or even 65% chance, I would.  Plus, even if you don't fully cover them in 1 shot, you can continue to pull tokens until they leave Latest.  The hoard is a good jump start, but it shouldn't be a constant thing.  I'm planning to start with a hoard of 200 pulls, THEN continue to pull Latest going forward.  I may or may not fully cover the oldest 5* in the lot before they leave the pool, but the next 2 I will.  Then with a couple 5* champs, I can get better rewards along with a 4* champ farm to increase my LL pull rate and never hoard again.  Many people have done this and it works.
    I shall state a conjecture, though I think not an unreasonable one.  On the one hand, we have a player who makes "smart" investments in terms of spending money on the game insofar as getting the best value for the money they spent.  Should probabilities not quite work out in that player's favor, they have a cash reserve they can draw on to invest in the game to make up any deficits.  On the other hand, we have a hypothetical free player that makes no monetary investments, that is determined not to spend, who does not have a cash reserve they will draw on to make up any deficits.  (Let's say they have the cash but choose to spend it on other things).

    Now - I think it reasonable to state that such a player would not be as quick to jump on a 85% or 65% chance of losing the results of two years of work, considering they don't have any outs other than spending a good deal of money, considering we've established they're free players that don't want to spend.  That is their pattern, and they will not break it.

    Based on this conjecture, I think the 163 day mark is not by any means conservative.  I think it's another example of how the best decisions using a certain minimum amount of money alter the time of development when compared to the best decisions using no money whatsoever.

    And again - as I stated earlier, I find that the spending accelerated development, and that the accelerated development in turn fed into better rewards and faster.

    Consider the time investment alone.  I earlier stated a goal for players in the 3*-4* transition was PvE SCL 7 for select 4* covers from progression (and also to earn the Essential 4* character as a progression reward which may affect alliance placement though I'd say that is perhaps not absolutely necessary for those willing to look for a long time for a high ranking alliance that will take them on).  (Though the player may choose not to play SCL 7 for rewards the player can't roster).

    In practice that means a player's going to be playing SCL 7 with a bunch of assorted 3*s.  Even if one's using 3* Iron Man, 3* Doctor Strange, and whoever as needed (say the player also has 3* Hawkeye, bunch of other utility 3*s championed) you're still looking at I'd say perhaps three to five hours a day for PvE alone.

    Once a player pushes into the 4* transition and 4* Rocket and Groot, the Strike tiles cut match times drastically.  'd say typically three hours or less, at the most four.

    That's a real time savings, applied every day.

    Now consider how much more likely a player is to burn out if they're hoarding so feel their roster isn't making progress, and if they're additionally spending up to two additional hours every day playing game - maybe three or four hours even, if you factor in the difference in time for PvP.

    By feeding money into the equation, you skip that stage of development.  You skip over the early 3*-4* transition, and targeted buying in 4*s even pushes you into 5* development.  This after only 163 days.

    So as a whole, when I state a new free to play player will take 300% more time as a conservative estimate - I really think 652 days a pretty aggressive timeline for a free to play player committing to the 5* push.

    Or would you disagree?

    ==

    When referencing time changes of 500% or more -

    We're not talking about a limited time investment in which a free player has a defined goal and an exit strategy.  We're talking about a commitment that eats up hours a day over a period of multiple years.  What I'm getting at is if you're predicting what you're doing a year from now, you will likely be pretty accurate.  Two years from now, it gets a good bit less clear.  And players that know the time scale and the continuing commitment involved will, I think, be less likely to want to commit in the first place.  Once you start talking three, four years, then what?

    That is, I think once one factors in spending habits, risk aversion, the practical effects of development accelerated by money, 400% is about right for a very aggressive and competitive free to play player that knows exactly what they're doing (and I mean exactly) that has a load of time to play, and that has control over their schedule.

    But if you have players that are not willing to make a continual commitment over a period of hours a day for two years, then we're talking significant increases in the timeline.

    That is - when bbigler says my estimate for championed 5* for free players is on the order of three years, that's a reasonable interpretation if one reads different parts of what I wrote and takes them a bit out of context.  But for the record, I'm saying two years (very possibly a bit more I think) if a player does everything right, optimizes for a particular goal, and has all the knowledge and time and commitment required to reach that goal.  IF.  If a player does NOT quite have that level of commitment, then I think it *does* take on the order of three or more years.

    But in the context of this thread as a whole - though bbigler did spend money to accelerate development, he also put in the hours.  So I think though we're only talking a period of seven and a half months for bbigler's accelerated development, and two years for a free player's slower development, and though that requires a different level of commitment, for the purposes of this thread at least, we may assume (though it IS an assumption) that players that want to emulate champing 5*s will have a similar level of activity (though a commitment of multiple years is different to a commitment of a single year).
  • JackDeath666
    JackDeath666 Posts: 47 Just Dropped In
    Hi bbigler - I've enjoyed reading the regular updates about your progress. Written in a good natured, humble and concise style. Thanks for sharing your experiment! 
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    JackDeath666 said:
    Hi bbigler - I've enjoyed reading the regular updates about your progress. Written in a good natured, humble and concise style. Thanks for sharing your experiment! 
    Thank you! Sometimes I wonder if anyone reads or cares about this.  I'll try to incorporate more comments about my decision making in this process and how my gameplay has improved, and not just a list of accomplishments.  I guess people want to know how I did something, not just what I got in the end. 
  • JaGo
    JaGo Posts: 103 Tile Toppler
    bbigler said:

    Thank you! Sometimes I wonder if anyone reads or cares about this. 
    This forum isn’t very welcomimg, in my personal experience, but as a lurker I’ve follwed this thread from the start and have enjoyed it. My guess is many others have as well and just haven’t commented. 

    -JaGo
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    Day 233 Update: (I'll avoid the fear of TLDR with this post) A few days ago on Day 229 I technically fully covered my 2nd 5*, being Cable 5/5/1 with 6 saved covers after a total of 323 pulls. Of course, I'll keep pulling for Kitty during the next 5 weeks and hope to get some yellow Cable covers and avoid the swaps. Of course, I don't want to enter 5* PVP with a champed Cable and Loki, but I've considered champing just Cable and running him with Vulture. 

    My focus has been covering Kitty, so I'm trying to get as many LTs as I can. This past week I got an unprecedented 10 LTs (2 from CoT, 2 from the Fantastic 4 deal, 1 from VIP renewal, 1 from 4* Champ reward, 1 from Season alliance placement, and 3 from vaults). I got "lucky" with the vaults. For some reason, I felt like hoarding CP this week instead of pulling more Latest, so I have 341 CP in reserve ATM. I'm also looking forward to the period when my 3* champs hit those high level rewards, which should happen in about a month. They're currently between champ levels 193 and 220. 

    My obsession with covering Kitty is justified. Because of her I ranked #6 in Unstable ISO-8 and #4 in Simulator, both SCL 8. I'm amazed that I can compete with 5* players. She's still 2/3/3 level 375. I've also changed my Grockitty partner from Medusa to 3*Thanos because he's faster. In PVP, Grockitty is my standard team, but I'm trying to explore other options because some PVPs are tough. I can always reach 900 points unshielded, but I always shield to keep my points afterward. Some boosted 4* teams kick my butt, like boosted Clagger and Blade.

    Shield Simulator is pretty easy. I can float around 1700 - 1900 points with GrockittyDusa. I've tried out GrockittyDazzler to climb against any Grocket or Carnage team, with decent success. Dazzler needs a health pack every other battle, but I don't like that I have to depend on and make a black or green match no matter what for it to work. This is usually at the detriment of missing better matches and protecting my strikes. It does work, but I want to try out my newly champed Kraven instead. I also try to avoid other Grockitty teams, especially if their Kitty has 4+ purple covers.  Kitty is both the perfect partner and a good counter to Grocket. 

    The downside to focusing on opening Latest exclusively is that I'm missing a lot of 5*s for PVE. When I don't have the 5e, I can only rank top 50/100 in SCL 8. I'm trying out SCL 7 for the current PVE because I don't have 5*IM.  But my advice for new players is still to focus on Latest because 4* champ rewards will give you those Classic 5*s. All you need is 1 cover to unlock the node anyway, plus most PVEs feature Latest 5*s. 

    Lastly, supports have been useful to me, but only the higher level ones. I'm focusing on the ones that fortify specials since I play Grockitty everywhere, but the other perks aren't bad either. Shuri's Lab lvl 200 is on Kitty (which also boosts her green and red match damage) and Chimichanga lvl 150 is on Grocket. I plan to move my Vibranium Ore lvl 200 from Medusa to 3*Thanos. I have other useful supports that I'll move around to the different 3e, 4e, 5e characters for PVE. I usually move Vib. Ore when playing CoT. 
  • AardvarkPepper
    AardvarkPepper Posts: 239 Tile Toppler
    HoundofShadow said:
    Thanks for answering my question. Just to share in return, I'm quite a competitive 100% FTP player and I have played this game for close to 400 in-game days. I'm not in a top 250 alliance by any means.

    Based on my CP usage tracking, I would have ~7000CP by now if I could control my itch. I have about 80 LTs now. That would have put me at a total of about 360 LT pulls. This is despite the fact that I have to roster, sell and re-roster 3* and 4* characters early and late in the game. 

    7 months of play is about 210 days. You are close to your goals or should have reached your goal. It seems spending 432 helped you to shave off about 40-50% (200-250 days / 400 days) of in-game days to reach 5* land (3 champed 5*)?



    HoundofShadow said:
    @AardvarkPepper

    By competitive, I meant getting :

    1) Top 1-10 in SCL 6/7 PvE 
    2) top 5 in SCL 6 PvP (now top 50-100 in SCL 9 PvP)
    3) getting 2 Heroic Tokens in Lightning rounds most of the time

    Even though I'm not in a top 100 alliance, it doesn't stop me from being able to earn ~7000 CP and 80 LTs at close to Day 400 without spending a single dime. However, if I were to join a top 100 alliance, I could have hit 5* land way before Day 400, probably by Day 365.

    Based on my experience, I am very confident to say that a 100% FTP competitive player can hit 3 champed 5* within 1 year and 1 month. 
    Thanks for the clarification.  Some questions -

    1)  What specific teams did you use for SCL 6/7 PvE to get top 1-10, as a developing player?  What slices did you play, and did you start slices at slice start time, or did you use comms to figure out when a new bracket had started?  What were your daily clear times for PvP (including slice end and slice start)?

    2)  As above, but for SCL 6 PvP

    3)  You mentioned top placements in PvP and PvE.  Were these consistent top placements?  Or did you more often get, say, top 50, but *sometimes* get top 10?

    4)  You mentioned using 7000 or so CP and an "itch".  Did you spend those CP on Latest Legendary or Classic tokens?  Any buying covers?  If you bought covers, were they as needed at full price, or did you buy in store?

    5)  Considering you spent and tracked around 7000 CP, don't you feel your roster development benefited from that expenditure, cutting clear times, leading to better placement?  Thoughts on this?

    I wouldn't have said three 5* champions in a year for a free to play was even theoretically possible.  But if a player's really pulling down top placement all the time, well - I'd have to take another look.

    bbigler said:
    Day 233 Update: (I'll avoid the fear of TLDR with this post)

    :D 
  • abenness
    abenness Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    bbigler said:
    Day 233 Update: 
    snip
    The downside to focusing on opening Latest exclusively is that I'm missing a lot of 5*s for PVE. When I don't have the 5e, I can only rank top 50/100 in SCL 8. I'm trying out SCL 7 for the current PVE because I don't have 5*IM.  But my advice for new players is still to focus on Latest because 4* champ rewards will give you those Classic 5*s. All you need is 1 cover to unlock the node anyway, plus most PVEs feature Latest 5*s. 

     
    I’ve also been ruminating on this, after 3 great results when I had the latest 5e, it’s a bit sad to be out of contention just because of missing the character.

    I’ve played every pve to full progression for basically as long as I remember, and I expect to always get the 4* progression cover, so now the challenge is how to build on that with 4* placement covers.

    I am wondering what it takes to finish top50 in scl9, specifically without the 5e. I don’t mind if it becomes a bit harder than normal, as long as I can get through.

    eg I know in scl8 I finished sub 3 with 110 points less than position #1, so I am ok speed wise, I just need to figure out if that is enough.

    Can anyone comment? Ie how many of the top50 don’t have the 5e, and what is the spread of their scores?  Does this change between event start and the first or second flip?

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    abenness said:
    bbigler said:
    Day 233 Update: 
    snip
    The downside to focusing on opening Latest exclusively is that I'm missing a lot of 5*s for PVE. When I don't have the 5e, I can only rank top 50/100 in SCL 8. I'm trying out SCL 7 for the current PVE because I don't have 5*IM.  But my advice for new players is still to focus on Latest because 4* champ rewards will give you those Classic 5*s. All you need is 1 cover to unlock the node anyway, plus most PVEs feature Latest 5*s. 

     
    I’ve also been ruminating on this, after 3 great results when I had the latest 5e, it’s a bit sad to be out of contention just because of missing the character.

    I’ve played every pve to full progression for basically as long as I remember, and I expect to always get the 4* progression cover, so now the challenge is how to build on that with 4* placement covers.

    I am wondering what it takes to finish top50 in scl9, specifically without the 5e. I don’t mind if it becomes a bit harder than normal, as long as I can get through.

    eg I know in scl8 I finished sub 3 with 110 points less than position #1, so I am ok speed wise, I just need to figure out if that is enough.

    Can anyone comment? Ie how many of the top50 don’t have the 5e, and what is the spread of their scores?  Does this change between event start and the first or second flip?


    Just assume that everyone in T50 in 9 has all the essentials.

    110 points behind someone in 8 means you lost at least 30 minutes - that's quite the spread. Usually there's not more than 20 points between T1 and T10 in 9.

    9 is murder.

  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm in the second bracket of 4.9 for Thick as Thieves. After the initial clear of the second sub last night, there was a 53 point spread... from 1st to 20th.

    You can try it, but I would suggest getting at least a third bracket in 1.9 or 5.9, as those are typically the only two that get to a third flip in a decent time. Even still, you might miss the first sub entirely for most events. I never play those slices though, so don't really follow how quickly they typically flip. 
  • abenness
    abenness Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    Thanks for the info, it definitely sounds brutal at the top.  I guess I might try it sometime just to see how I go, because I would hope it doesn't stay that competitive down to the player in 50th place - they are the only one I have to beat :)
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    abenness said:
    Thanks for the info, it definitely sounds brutal at the top.  I guess I might try it sometime just to see how I go, because I would hope it doesn't stay that competitive down to the player in 50th place - they are the only one I have to beat :)
    Do the prejoin brackets in 2.9.1 and 3.9.1 if you want to see what high end pve lbs look like.  You'll be staggered by how big those rosters are even in spots 15-20
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    I boned my grind of the second sub. Missed a final clear of the first hard node and the 2* essential node. Didn't even get T50 for the sub, so no HP for me. Probably out of T20 overall, unless others screw up worse. 
  • spidyjedi84
    spidyjedi84 Posts: 514 Critical Contributor
    abenness said:
    bbigler said:
    Day 233 Update: 
    snip
    The downside to focusing on opening Latest exclusively is that I'm missing a lot of 5*s for PVE. When I don't have the 5e, I can only rank top 50/100 in SCL 8. I'm trying out SCL 7 for the current PVE because I don't have 5*IM.  But my advice for new players is still to focus on Latest because 4* champ rewards will give you those Classic 5*s. All you need is 1 cover to unlock the node anyway, plus most PVEs feature Latest 5*s. 

     
    I’ve also been ruminating on this, after 3 great results when I had the latest 5e, it’s a bit sad to be out of contention just because of missing the character.

    I’ve played every pve to full progression for basically as long as I remember, and I expect to always get the 4* progression cover, so now the challenge is how to build on that with 4* placement covers.

    I am wondering what it takes to finish top50 in scl9, specifically without the 5e. I don’t mind if it becomes a bit harder than normal, as long as I can get through.

    eg I know in scl8 I finished sub 3 with 110 points less than position #1, so I am ok speed wise, I just need to figure out if that is enough.

    Can anyone comment? Ie how many of the top50 don’t have the 5e, and what is the spread of their scores?  Does this change between event start and the first or second flip?

    My only top 20 finish in PVE SCL9 in the past year and a half came in this last event, where 5* Kingpin was required. Apparently, very few had him rostered yet in my slice, so I cleaned up on max points there because I had  one cover Kingpin and a boosted Teen Jean and Vulture to tear through those nodes like butter. That finish came even after I sold the champed required 2-star on day 1 because I forgot he was required, and didn't get another one until day 2. If I hadn't made that roughly 2000 point mistake, I may have been a top 10 contender in the event.
    If you don't have the required 5E, you aren't even going to be in top 50 in PVE SCL9, and even with it, you're scrabbling for that top 50 finish based on your speed of clears. Very rarely do I see anyone without the required 5 star in top 20 to 40 in SCL9 slices I play.
    Without the 5e. I know I'm behind other players by roughly 7,000 to 12,000 points. Even with the required 5e, there are some 5e nodes I can't clear all six to seven plays on, depending on boost list... That's where the other rosters with champed 5 stars power through, with just that 5e being an anchor on their rosters neck.
    I still choose SCL9 because it has better progression rewards than other tiers. Without a good 5 star roster, though, a top 50 finish in SCL9 is a pipe dream.
  • abenness
    abenness Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    @bbigler what are your thoughts now as Kitty's time in LL is running out.  I'm expecting the rotation to GED will happen on 4th Feb, and I'm resigned to not finishing her by then, maybe not even getting any more covers the way my luck is running (4 or 5 Cables and 3 Kingpins since my last Kitty cover)

    I'm not sure what to do next apart from keep 250CP in the bank for her next store cover.

    I could start saving for future releases, or I could start buying CL to build my 4's and expand my roster of classic 5's.

    Also undecided whether to level her from 375 currently to 405 possible.  The increase to health and her yellow boost numbers are welcome, but I'm still wary of being put against bigger 5* teams.  My highest 4* are level 272 & 273, so my MMR is probably being kept down by the average.

    Fyi I went SCL9 for this PVE as I can't play optimally for these couple of days anyway.  No problem getting through with Grocket + Kitty + Strange because there are so few tile movers (clearing in ~45 minutes), but I won't finish top50 as about 60 players have the 5e.


  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    @abenness I'm in denial about Kitty leaving on 2/4, I'm hoping it will be later. My Kitty is at 10 covers (4/3/3) so, it's unlikely I'll finish her, which is very, very frustrating given how hard I've worked for her, how much I've promoted her (even before she was popular) and seeing many other people champ her that are at my level. Plus, champing her would have been my finish line for this restart experiment. I would have fully covered 3 x 5*s around Day 250, perhaps setting a non-whale record. 

    I've currently pulled 348 LL, but that wasn't enough. I may get up to 370 by Feb 4th. It comes down to bad luck, which isn't my fault, but that doesn't make me feel any better. What really matters is what I'm planning to do going forward. The main goal here is entering 5* PVP and playing SCL 9 PVE.  Kitty should be able to handle SCL 9 but I'm not sure about the 5e node. I could level her up a little higher though. 

    Entering 5* PVP will be a gradual process. I'll test out Cable at level 375 with a variety of 4* champs, and if that goes well, I could champ him. In the meantime, I'll be hoarding LT and CP again until Kingpin leaves. But my original plan was to reach my goals by March and quit. So, I don't know if I'll endure. I have quit this game 4 times before because of the time commitment. A longshot of entering 5* PVP faster is if I get some good high level supports and they enable them in PVP, then Cable+Kitty or Cable+Loki are an option. 
  • abenness
    abenness Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    I'm very interested in hearing how you go with slowly levelling Cable, as mine is 5/2/2 and can go to 390 if I want, but with a non-optimal cover distribution.  If you decide to go that way, please track which teams you start coming up against and let us know.

    I personally don't want supports to go into PVP - a 5* support could almost become the equivalent of a mini-champ character, and they are such rare and random drops, it would be hard to consider them fair.  But, I am very interested in the new support events they have announced - I have been using and riso-levelling my supports since the start, and appreciate the extra flavour they bring to the game.

    PS I finished 66th in SCL9 PVE without the 5e, after not bothering too much with my final clears after reaching progression.  Happy with the experiment, but I think I am lucky it was so few tile movers.  The real frustration I have is when the enemy team has huge health pools and tile movers, and I have to keep my special tiles alive to kill them off.  A couple of unlucky matches and I can really struggle.  This risk will mitigate as I build other 4* options and can start using boosted 4's in the events.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    abenness said:
    I'm very interested in hearing how you go with slowly levelling Cable, as mine is 5/2/2 and can go to 390 if I want, but with a non-optimal cover distribution.  If you decide to go that way, please track which teams you start coming up against and let us know.

    I personally don't want supports to go into PVP - a 5* support could almost become the equivalent of a mini-champ character, and they are such rare and random drops, it would be hard to consider them fair.  But, I am very interested in the new support events they have announced - I have been using and riso-levelling my supports since the start, and appreciate the extra flavour they bring to the game.

    PS I finished 66th in SCL9 PVE without the 5e, after not bothering too much with my final clears after reaching progression.  Happy with the experiment, but I think I am lucky it was so few tile movers.  The real frustration I have is when the enemy team has huge health pools and tile movers, and I have to keep my special tiles alive to kill them off.  A couple of unlucky matches and I can really struggle.  This risk will mitigate as I build other 4* options and can start using boosted 4's in the events.
    Since those buffed strikes are so precious, I'll use 3 supports to Fortify specials against tile movers. 

    My Cable is 5/5/1 with 6 saved covers ATM. So, he has a good build for not being champed. 
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    Day 248 Update: I reached a personal milestone recently that I thought would be of interest - my new roster has surpassed my old roster! It's like comparing oranges to grapefruits, but I'm certain now that my new roster is stronger than my old one. My old roster had 730 days played, which stretched from 2013 to 2017 (I quit 3 times during that run).  It had 17 champed 4*s, plus a hoard of 183 LL pulls. I was planning to get the super AP engine of 5*Hawkeye + Coulson.  My best 5* was Surfer with 8 covers. 

    I primarily played Peggy and Rhulk everywhere and added IM40 when possible. It was the perfect team.  I also had fun with 4*Starlord + Powerman + Wasp against PVE goons. I would let the protect tiles build up and then flip them a few times for 3 yellow AP. For wave nodes I liked 4*Starlord + 3*Panther + 3*Fist -- I just collected purple and started flooding black for 3 AP to clear each wave with Rage of the Panther. When my other champed 4*s were boosted I would play them, like Invisible Woman and Thoress. But Star Lord was definitely my favorite character, plus when boosted, he could punch for 20K.

    This was a pre-Grocket era. I knew he was awesome, but mine just had 6 covers. Shield Sim teams were mostly a combination of the 4 power-women: Carol, Peggy, Wasp, Medusa. The 5* meta, I believe, was Panthos. 4* Carol was the latest craze. I was champing 4*s every 12 days and generally ranked top 25 in events. 

    My new roster is charging forward and gaining momentum. I'm collecting ISO, HP, CP and LTs faster than ever before. I'm champing a 4* every 7 days now and my backlog of characters to champ keeps growing. I currently have 13 Champs and 7 ready for champing, so I've been choosing the best ones lately, not just who has 13 covers. Ironically, my first 4* champ with my old roster, Nick Fury, is my least covered 4* now, with just 2. If you would like to know the order that I've champed people, here it is: Grocket, Medusa, Ghost, Miles, XFDP, Carnage, Dino, Dazzler, Nebula, Antman, Kraven, Valkyrie, Vulture. 

Categories