I'm Back.........and I'm Starting Over

bbigler

Bowgentle said:

bbigler said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Man, i'm glad that expense works for you; it seems outrageous to me - I've bought actual cars for less than that.

If you divide it out it's only $21 a week, which is reasonable for this "hobby"

So you spent 21 bucks per week with the intention of quitting as fast as possible.
And that's ok, because there's people who spend more.
Yeah, makes sense.

Next time you feel the need to come back, just send the 800 to me, please.
It'll save you a few months.

I decided to do this restart because I thought it would be fun, but reaching 5* play without spending is very slow and not as fun, so I'll gladly pay $800 to have more fun in half the time. Then I can move on and do other fun things in life.  So, yeah, it makes sense. 

HoundofShadow

$800 "saved" you about 130 in-game days. This is based on a comparison between your progress and my progress (100% FTP) in reaching 3 champed or 3 fully covered 5*. 

At least you had fun. How much one is comfortable spending depends on how much disposable income they have or how much they are comfortable with spending on mobile games. I've seen whales dropping $6000 in other games and they shrug it off as nothing else to spend on. 

Any plan to chase 2 or 3 Rank 5 supports? 

bbigler

Thanks @HoundofShadow, good to know the FTP timeline.  When I restarted, I was only planning to spend $100 on HP for roster slots and that's it.  Then the covers started flooding in and I ran out of HP.  Since I didn't want to waste covers and I wanted my experiment to be done in the "ideal" way, I bought more HP for slots.  Then I started seeing the SCL bundles and they were too good to pass up.  Then VIP became available (which I forgot about) and decided that I ought to do that as well in order to stay on the "best" path of progression.  So, my spending has been partly for my own sake of progressing quickly and partly for the sake of the experiment to show how fast you could reach 5* play on the ideal path.  At Christmas time, I simply had some extra money to spend.  That's how I've spent $800, but it has been stretched out over 9 months. 

I mentioned whale spending because I want to point out that I'm not whaling to 5* champs.  I believe my spending is on par with other competitive players, using my alliance mates for comparison.  If there are 100 competitive alliances, all with spenders in them, then the amount I've spent is "normal".  I've come to realize that this game is a hobby, not just a game.  And I've had other hobbies, such as freediving, where I've spent around $3000 over a few years doing it.

ThaRoadWarrior

This game really is a hobby, it's more like collecting baseball or CCG cards than anything. So from that perspective, the only difference is that these items are virtual, so as soon as the server shuts down that money is gone. How much people want to spend or are okay spending is directly tied to how much they value transient fun. I didn't bring that up earlier to money-shame you, I just personally couldn't fathom that expense for myself.

I'm on day 1113 myself, 1 sub-optimal 5* champ, and nobody else with more than 9 covers, but I've not spent anything on the game ever. I don't know that I'm proud of that per se, there are people working hard on this and they need to make a living. But the F2P option is there, and for me part of the challenge is seeing how well I can do in the face of optimal play requiring expense at some level.

bbigler

After putting some more thought into this, I've made some goals to define when I'm done with this restart experiment (and maybe done with this game). But before I list those I want to say that measuring your progress in the game could be done in 3 different ways: (1) your production rates of ISO, HP, CP, and LTs, (2) the number, level and tier of your champs, (3) your rank or points in all events. But these 3 are all connected; first, you focus on increasing your production rate of resources, which can lead to better champs, which can lead to better ranks, which leads to better rewards, which increases your production rates.

So, is entering "5* play" defined by having 5* champs or by ranking top 10 in all events or by sustaining 5* growth with 15 - 18 Legendary pulls per week? I know some players with 5* champs that aren't competitive and not really in "5* play". I know some 4* players that are competitive and can place top 10 in events. But sustaining 5* growth with high production rates seems to be the most difficult. Perhaps that should be my win condition. With that said, here are my goals to finish:

Ultimate Goal:
Consistently get 16 - 18 LL pulls per week without spending, except for VIP

High Priority Goals:
Champ Kitty and ....
Consistently reach 1200+ points in PVP. 
Consistently get top 5 in PVE SCL 8 when I have the 5e character. 

Other Goals: 
Champ a 4* every 6 days
Get all 3*s at level 215+
Get another useful 4* support 
Hit all my goals within 2 months

What do you guys think?

RPIJG

Hmmm...

What's your main source of LL's to achieve the ultimate goal?

For the High goals:
Champing Kitty should allow you to achieve 1200 PvP without much issue (depending on slice)
top 5 in PVE will probably depend on slice and catching a flipped bracket.

Others:
Champ a 4* every 6 days can be wildly unrealistic or easy, it really depends on what your current levels are.  4* ISO requirements are so much worse than 3*.
3* levels can be fed by a 2* farm for some, and luck of the draw for others.
I wouldn't chase a support, you'll just end up disappointed.

Daredevil217

bbigler said:

I bought more HP for slots.  Then I started seeing the SCL bundles and they were too good to pass up.  Then VIP became available (which I forgot about) and decided that I ought to do that as well in order to stay on the "best" path of progression.  So, my spending has been partly for my own sake of progressing quickly and partly for the sake of the experiment to show how fast you could reach 5* play on the ideal path.

Again, this, for me, is where the experiment falls apart. You talk about the “best path“ or “ideal path”. But that’s defined by you. It’s completely subjective. No science.  No real experiement. In fact, you changed the “conditions” for the experiment part way through by spending 8x as much as you said you would in your “research proposal”. The best path to reach 5* land as fast as possible is to spend like crazy. There’s no experiment needed to derive that conclusion. You say “I’m not a whale!”, which while true is inconsequential to the experiment. Instead of calling it what it isn’t. Call it what it is. 

The conclusion of this experiment is a new player can reach 5* land (defined as max-champing three Latest Legends) in under 300 days if they are willing to spend around 800 dollars.

So you can tell a new player:
“You could buy an Xbox1 AND PS4 for cost of completing three top-end characters in this match-3 mobile game. It’ll still take around 10 months of grinding, they won’t be complete-complete (level 550), and the three characters likely won’t be as good as other top tier characters already released. But... it can be done!”

ThaRoadWarrior

If you have all your 4*s at 209 already, taking one the rest of the way is reasonable in 6 days for me. Going from lvl 70-270 might take a couple days more depending on what's going on (double iso on the + side, or alliance event on the -).

bbigler

@RPIJG I'm close to achieving all of these goals, here's where I'm at:

For the past 2 weeks I've collected 16 LL pulls each week but I don't know if this is sustainable. The source of these is mostly CP plus champ rewards, vaults, CoT, VIP and the occasional Boss Events and Alliance Season placement. 

I could champ Kitty now, but I want to keep my goal of champing a 4* every week, which I have been doing for the past 10 weeks. But I can squeeze her in next week. 

With a 405 Kitty I've been hitting 1050 points in PVP. The last PVP I got 1100+.

In PVE SCL 8, I've been ranking around #8, so my goal is top 5. One time I placed #4 when Kitty was boosted.  Hitting top 10 in SCL 9 may be harder.

I've been using my 3*BH covers to bring up my lowest level 3*s, so right now they range from 202 - 232. I basically want to get them into the higher champ rewards ASAP. 

I know I can get more 4* supports, the only question is whether or not they will be useful. A 4*Ebony Maw or Chewie would be great for Gritty-Thanos because both can produce attack tiles. 

bbigler

@Daredevil217 Yes, the ideal path to 5* play is subjective and my opinion but it can't be anything else because everybody has their own ideas about what is best.  That's why I put "best" and "ideal" in quotes because I know it's not a fact.  I at least wanted to show people my "best path" to 5* play in case anyone else wants to follow it.

But my spending is the smallest factor in my progression. What has made the biggest difference is the amount of time and effort I put into playing, plus a very wise use of resources. It also takes skill to fight teams well above your weight class. All of that is why I've progressed so quickly.  The purchases only support my overall strategy, which is to setup champ farms ASAP while chasing meta characters to hit above your weight and get the best rewards possible.  $800 did not get me to where I am today, it's been the countless hours playing and planning this out.  If someone else has the same level of dedication, time, skill, wisdom, patience and money, they could do what I have done. But $800 alone will not get them there.

bbigler

ThaRoadWarrior said:

If you have all your 4*s at 209 already, taking one the rest of the way is reasonable in 6 days for me. Going from lvl 70-270 might take a couple days more depending on what's going on (double iso on the + side, or alliance event on the -).

I haven't been tracking my ISO production rate very closely, but it's been above 400K per week for several weeks. What I typically do with my 4*s is to champ one that's already at level 188 (284K iso) or 209 (228K iso), then spend my leftover ISO on leveling up other 4*s to 188 or 209. Eventually they will all be at level 188+, so champing could start happening much faster. 

ThaRoadWarrior

It's possible I'm getting it faster than that too, I just have it in my head I'm pulling down 30-40k/day, which puts it more like 10-days per 4*. But I've been able to bring Okoye and Jessica Jones both up to 375 from 300, which is about 215k each in the last week or so, with bishop going to 209 in between. I guess that would be a good statistic to know, but not so much that I actually care to start tracking it myself lol.

Daredevil217

I have an MPQ Doc in my notepad on my phone. 

What I’ve been doing is I write down my iso, CP, LT, number of pulls (CP/25 + LT) on Sunday. Then next Sunday I update the doc and see the difference and note the increase. If I have a 2* ready to flip or an increase in shield rank, I’ll wait until Sunday and do so AFTER I update my numbers. That way my estimate is conservative and not taking those little bonuses into account. Same thing if I open a huge hoard. I don’t keep track every week; but have on and off for awhile. 

bbigler

Day 283 Update: I champed Kitty on Day 277! Yay.......so I mostly wanted to share my experience playing since then. But first I'll share my stats as of today:

Rank: 117, Slots 161
Hoard: 19 LT + 655 CP = 45 Pulls
4* ISO Deficit: 6.8 million
4* Champs: 18
4* Ready to Champ: 9
3* Levels: 205 - 240
Latest 5* coverage: Fatpin 1/3/1, GEDoom 1/0/0, Marvel 0/0/0
5*s Rostered: 14 (missing 18)

I continue to get Classic 5*s even though I'm not opening Classics. They usually come through new Legendary stores, but my Carnage gave up a 5*Doc Ock last week.  So, I still believe it's best for new players to focus on Latest because you can get Classic 5*s (for PVE Essentials) in other ways. 

So.....I champed Kitty. Is everything easier now? Well, kind of. I played PVE SCL 7 to see how I could rank there and that was not fun at all. Sure, I had 25 minute clear times, but that wasn't fast enough! I was struggling just to make top 10, but then I made a mistake and ended up finishing #16. When Kitty was around level 400, I could easily finish top 10 in SCL 8. I believe the whales like SCL 7 because it takes the least amount of effort. Am I saying that whales are lazy?...........

Anyway, I'm playing SCL 9 in the latest PVE and it looks like I could place top 10 there, which would be a first for me. Kitty really is amazing, I have no fear of any PVE opponent. The 5e node is not a problem; it's just a question of how quickly can I win. The Gritty-Dusa combo was perfect for the Thanos boss node.....even in the late rounds I still won in 3 turns or less. 

Gritty-Bishop is the new meta in Shield Sim (at least in my MMR). With that team I can float above 2000 points. With some periodic retals, I can float above 2100 right now. 

So, the real question is: how's PVP going? Well, in terms of scoring it's about the same as when Kitty was at level 400. I can climb unshielded to about 1100 points and then I run out of good targets and start getting hit down. So, the only way to hit 1200 is to shield around 1100 and then do single hops to 1200. But in order to queue high point targets, I've recently joined a battle chat. These chat rooms are very friendly and helpful but it also shows the very ugly side of PVP.....the snipers/suppressors. You see over and over the same people purposely floating and watching the leaderboards in order to catch people when they're unshielded and bring them down. They're not playing for points, they have fun by knocking other people down. IMO, this is very immature and destructive to the game.

The good news is that I can now take down boosted-champed 4* teams with ease. I can also take down champed 5* teams, including Thorkoye, as well. It's really no problem for Gritty. My real nemesis are other Gritty teams, and now that everyone knows how good they are, Gritty is everywhere. In my POV, putting any other team out there makes you a target. Thorkoye is fast for climbing, but I'll gladly fight them over Gritty. I will admit that since my Gritty are at low champ levels, I'm more of a target than other Grittys. 

One last note, I played the Lightning rounds with my new champed Kitty and was able to rank top 8 if I tried. That's a first as well and one of my little goals. It's funny how my mentality has changed with a good champed 5*. There is little that I'm afraid of.

bbigler

OJSP said:

You shouldn't be too specific.. I found out who you are in the game from this..

That's OK, I can also see you near my rank in Shield Sim (your IGN is easier to figure out).  But at least you could confirm that everything I say is true! I'm rockin the single 5* champ Kitty. 

There's actually a lot of forum users I recognize in game. 

HoundofShadow

What are the top 5 highest levels of your characters in PvP (including boosted)?

1. Kitty @ 450

Are the next 4 4* characters around level 380 to 400?

When you climb from 0 to 700 points in PvP, do you still see pairs of 4* or are you always seeing 1 champed 5* and 1 4*?

bbigler

HoundofShadow said:

What are the top 5 highest levels of your characters in PvP (including boosted)?

1. Kitty @ 450

Are the next 4 4* characters around level 380 to 400?

When you climb from 0 to 700 points in PvP, do you still see pairs of 4* or are you always seeing 1 champed 5* and 1 4*?

Good question Hound. My top 5 characters change every PVP because of the boost list, but this is what I got for 21 Guns:

1. Kitty 450
2. Valkyrie 369
3. 3*Cap America 337
4. 3*Marvel 314
5. 3*Patch 303

My War Machine isn't champed. Because I progressed so fast to get a 5* champ the rest of my roster is still low. So, I can climb solely off of 4* rosters until 800 points or so. I still see 5* champ teams, but I can skip them if I want. I'm really focusing on high point targets that aren't Gritty. But I'll attack easier targets for 20 points too. I basically hit anything that's not a champed Gritty or BSSM. Near the end, I need to hit Gritty teams for points and boosted Valkyrie is great for that because I don't run out of strikes. Plus, a Valkyrie + Kitty team is easier to beat for my battle chat comrades. 

HoundofShadow

Thanks bbigler. I'm surprised you are still seeing pairs of 4*. Continue to update as it has been an interesting. It's too late for me to share my experience as a competitive 100% F2P. 

ThaRoadWarrior

This is definitely interesting. My own transition with a non-meta 5* has not been as rad lol. My top 5 characters right now in Right Hand Man are:

1. Gho5t Rider (452)
2. Coulson (415) 
3. C4rol (385)
4. Elektr4 (379)
5. L4dy Thor (376)

The only times I'm seeing a team of all-4* characters is when all 3 are boosted up into the 400s, every other team has some kind of 5* component to it. As long as Bishop isn't part of the equation, I can beat at least baby-champ Gritty teams in 4* PVP, but i get slaughtered in 3* pvp. I've hit 900 twice since i champed GRRR, otherwise it's been 40 wins if I want to get the 4*, and 75 wins in Simulator. Occasionally i'll just tap out after the 575 CP though. I can generally climb up near 800 in a single push, then run out of health and get slammed back down. My new float point is typically just under 400pts unshielded, whereas before as a 4* player it was up around 650.

bbigler

OJSP said:

Well done for breaking at the end successfully in War Machine's event. The initial climb was also nice, good timing. Perhaps try to shield out before the last 8 hours and avoid the very late climbers.

Thanks for noticing.  This is how it played out: First, I played Slice 2 because it's convenient in my schedule, but I now know that S2 has very few brackets and is dominated by 1 particular alliance.  The other PVPs I play Slice 4.  I usually do a 3 hr + 8 hr shield, but this time I wanted to do 3 + 8 + 3 shields to hit 1200.  So.........

The day before I climbed and floated around 700 points.  I got some hits between 16 - 24 hrs out, and then started my final climb at 12 hrs out.  That worked out very well and I got up to 1145 points without getting a single attack! (technically, someone retaliated against me but lost).  Given my past PVP experience, I decided I was pressing my luck, so I shielded at 1145; plus all my targets were less than 10 points (but easy to beat).  In retrospect, I think I could have gone higher before getting hit.  I then started skipping a lot in order to find higher point targets for the next hop and eventually found a decent Gritty team worth 24 points.  I was watching the leaderboards and noticed some people unshielding, trying to climb, but getting beaten down, so I knew I could only be out for 1 battle.  I then played that Gritty team; it went badly, but I still won, got 27 points and it took much longer than I expected.  To my surprise, I didn't get attacked during that time, so I shielded again.  A minute later, I get the notice of 2 attacks, but my shield saved me.  Now I'm sitting at 1172 points, but all my targets are less than 10 points again.  I then periodically do some skipping sessions to find better targets and come across a non-champ Thorkoye team worth 25 points.  Perfect, but I would still be short of 1200.  Then with 90 minutes left in the PVP, I beat the Thorkoye team very fast and get 20 points.  Because of my last hop, I shield again expecting attacks, but none come in.  So now I'm sitting at 1192 and my only hope is to break at the end for 1 more hop.  I find an easy team worth 8 points and have another super easy team worth 4 points just in case.  Once the event timer hit 1 min, I broke my shield and got 12 points, ending at 1204 and ranked #10.

Here's the take-away: my low MMR is both good and bad.  It's good because I can climb off of much weaker teams, but it's bad because I run out of good targets around 1100 points.  I've tried queuing people I know are unshielded in my bracket, but I can't.  I thought once I passed some point or rank threshold I would be able to queue anyone that's out, but I don't think that's true.  I believe there's a limit to how high above your MMR you can queue.  In the above example, there was a guy in my bracket floating for hours around 1000 points with a roster of level 490s.  During that time I must have skipped 100 times, but I never queued him. The other guy that quickly attacked me twice when I shield hopped, I never queued either.  Since the people in my MMR usually don't climb very high, it limits my climbing.  Perhaps I need to champ Cable just to increase my MMR to get better targets?  I know, that's crazy.  Perhaps I need to climb earlier than the last 12 hrs, but I'm trying to avoid spending a lot of HP on shields.  Going forward, I'm going to try out Slice 1, which I hear has tons of brackets and lots of players unshielded during the event.