I'm Back.........and I'm Starting Over

abenness

bluewolf said:

@bbigler
So let's consider the premise of this effort, which is to enter 5* play as quickly as possible.  Which means to do so without regard to which 5's are available at the time you have gathered the resources (pulls) to chase a set of 5's.  Kitty is the closest to a meta defining 5 since Okoye...So you made a go at Kitty, it seems, when she was released (or at least when you felt you had enough pulls) and then I assume hoarded through Wasp and now Loki.  In hindsight, you might have had better luck hoarding more before chasing Kitty; even though it doesn't matter now, you might very well have been more successful with a bigger hoard before starting the chase

I was in the same boat - break the hoard after Wasp rotated out for Cable. So every LL pull was when Kitty was available. It depends on luck for getting covers when the hoard is small, but after butting heads with symbiotes buffing tiles every turn I wanted payback (yes, I think this is meta-defining for someone who is in too late for Okoye)

abenness

bbigler said:

@abenness I leveled my Kitty to 360, which helped greatly in PVE and didn't cause any problems in PVP. 

Awesome, that is very useful info. I will wait and see if I pull any useful 4* covers in my next 21. I’d be happier having Carnage, Grocket, Medusa supporting her rather than good ‘ol 3* Daken

bbigler

bluewolf said:

In hindsight, you might have had better luck hoarding more before chasing Kitty; even though it doesn't matter now, you might very well have been more successful with a bigger hoard before starting the chase.
..........
Final thought:  Coming back to my first point, if you had saved all your pulls until now, you might indeed have a champed Kitty and from one point of view, you could argue that you established a timeline to enter the 5 tier, just that you unfortunately didn't wait long enough to pull at once and overcome RNG.

Actually, my chances of covering Kitty wouldn't have been better if I hoarded up until now. Since restarting the game, I've made a total of 317 pulls. All of those pulls had Kitty in the odds. So, it doesn't matter if I do 375 pulls spread out over 18 weeks or if I pulled them all on the very last day. The odds are the same, 5% chance of Kitty for each pull.

But if I did hoard up until now, I may not have any 4* champs, which means I would've gotten lesser rewards for the past 9 weeks. I recognized that hoarding was holding me back when I was done champing the 3* tier. But I didn't want to waste pulls on Wasp, so I waited. I then instantly champed the top 4*s and started getting better rewards, including 4* champ rewards. Because of uneven distribution, Loki got fully covered first, so I hoarded again until he left. That's how I got here.  Cable is nearly done too. There's no better way I could have done this. 

Since my stated goal is to champ any 3 x 5*s and call my experiment done, I should pull until I finish Cable (just 1 more) and then hoard until he's out (April). But Kitty is just so good that I don't want to miss this opportunity. With a couple more covers, plus a feeder, plus some HFH deals, I could finish her. Perhaps it would be at the detriment of fully covering the next good 5*, but "a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush".  Logically, i should hoard until the next 5* is announced, but I may not do that. 

bbigler

HoundofShadow said:

How much money have you spent since you started MPQ all over again and what bundles have you bought? Are you able to list down all of them so that other players have a more complete understanding of how you achieved these goals? 

That's a good question, but it makes me reveal all my "dirty laundry". For the academic sake of this endeavor, I'll tell you.  I've purchased all SCL bundles. I've kept VIP going since I was eligible. I purchased 1 Asgard and 2 Logans in the beginning for roster slots. I also purchased 3 other special HFH offers, mostly for HP and 4* covers. During Christmas, I didn't know what to do with my birthday and Christmas money, so I ended up buying 2 Starks in buy clubs.

I've never done that before, but I can see why people do it.  For $100 you can get 8 - 9 Latest pulls.  This is accomplished by using the HP to buy 2 x 40-packs, which come with 2 LT.  The champ rewards from those covers could also give you another LT.  Combine CP from champ rewards plus the 140 CP from the buy club, and you have at least 6 pulls there. 

Normally, my LT and CP rate gives me 11 Latest pulls per week, but during Christmas time, I got 22 per week.  So, during my 17 day hoarding period, I acquired 52 pulls. After opening these 52, I champed Antman and have 4 more to champ, and many more that are close. The 4* champ farm is being established. Unfortunately, my focus has been 5* covers now, so champing 4*s is not as exciting as it should be. 

bbigler

@abenness I would focus on Grocket over Medusa to pair with Kitty. It takes some real skill to play the combo because you have to protect your strikes from being matched away. You'll always lose some, but you need at least 4 to keep the buffing going. Kitty and Grocket can make more specials when you get low though. I also use Nova team-ups to get more strikes if I run too low. 2* Wolverine Green team-ups work very well too.  With this combo, you can easily get up to 5K+ per match, so cascades can take out full health 4*s, even boosted ones. 

Carnage also works with Kitty, but it's not that great. You have never ending attack tiles to buff, but cascades are not as powerful and you give them attack tiles too, which is really bad if you're fighting Grockitty. I always smile when I see Carnage on the opposing team because my Grockitty team loves it. 

Now Grockitty + Medusa is really killer. Passively make attack tiles and get a health burst whenever something is matched away. Plus, with attack tiles and Medusa's tile, you triple dip on strikes. With Grockets green and blue CD tiles, you can dip 5 times on strike damage! 

bbigler

@OJSP I'm already getting good rewards at this stage. I can easily reach 900 in PVP. I could also rank t10 in PVE SCL 8 if I have the required 5*. I doubt that champing Loki will improve those rewards. 

Nevertheless, Loki would be useful in a Scarlet Witch PVP. I could even add 4*Star Lord to reduce both of his purple costs. I want to level up Cable to 360 and try him out in PVP with a variety of 4* champs, like Vulture, Chavez, Carol, Valkyrie and Bishop. If he works well enough, I might champ him while I'm waiting to finish Kitty.

These possibilities make me feel much better about my bad luck covering Kitty. Plus, Kitty is still useful half-covered. No matter what I get before Kitty leaves Latest, I'll hoard again until Cable and Fatpin are gone. 

AardvarkPepper

bbigler said:

HoundofShadow said:

How much money have you spent since you started MPQ all over again and what bundles have you bought? Are you able to list down all of them so that other players have a more complete understanding of how you achieved these goals? 

That's a good question, but it makes me reveal all my "dirty laundry".

Is there a but there?

If you're keeping the thread going as a sort of personal journal, I can see that.  But it's a lot more interesting to read what particular decisions you made in terms of spending, and what characters you chose to concentrate on and for what reasons.

I mean hey, anyone can get a gigantic powered roster just by throwing enough money at the game.  So the question is really what you spent and why.

Also - what's an SCL bundle?

abenness

bbigler said:

@abenness I would focus on Grocket over Medusa to pair with Kitty. It takes some real skill to play the combo because you have to protect your strikes from being matched away. You'll always lose some, but you need at least 4 to keep the buffing going. Kitty and Grocket can make more specials when you get low though. I also use Nova team-ups to get more strikes if I run too low. 2* Wolverine Green team-ups work very well too.  With this combo, you can easily get up to 5K+ per match, so cascades can take out full health 4*s, even boosted ones. 

Carnage also works with Kitty, but it's not that great. You have never ending attack tiles to buff, but cascades are not as powerful and you give them attack tiles too, which is really bad if you're fighting Grockitty. I always smile when I see Carnage on the opposing team because my Grockitty team loves it. 

Now Grockitty + Medusa is really killer. Passively make attack tiles and get a health burst whenever something is matched away. Plus, with attack tiles and Medusa's tile, you triple dip on strikes. With Grockets green and blue CD tiles, you can dip 5 times on strike damage! 

I was lucky to pull Grocket bonuses twice yesterday from Heroics, taking his yellow to 5 covers (and using the Milano support). And yes, I do think I understand your recommendation hahah. Using him and Kitty in the goon-heavy pve, I sliced through them and am looking to be in a good position for top5 (SCL7, competing against multi-champ-5* teams). Without Medusa I was using 3Fist for the passive attack tile, and all was good with my world

Thanks for sharing the details on your spending, I’ve also bought 3 of the SCL bundles, getting me started on Thanos, SWitch, 3Fist and 3Cage, and the Nico/X23/Nova who I STILL haven’t used in battle. Apart from that it has always been starving for roster slots that drives my spending, and I picked up the Deadpool bundle and Christmas Carnage to help manage my vine. I hope now that I am a squeak away from rostering all the 4’s, the vine shouldn’t be a problem any more, and I can continue to open every token I earn.

bbigler

AardvarkPepper 

If you're keeping the thread going as a sort of personal journal, I can see that.  But it's a lot more interesting to read what particular decisions you made in terms of spending, and what characters you chose to concentrate on and for what reasons.

I mean hey, anyone can get a gigantic powered roster just by throwing enough money at the game.  So the question is really what you spent and why.

Also - what's an SCL bundle?

OK, I'll summarize my strategy regarding characters I've chased after or leveled up, and for completeness I'll start at the beginning: 

1*s - IM35 because he was the fastest to cover and level up.

2*s - Wolverine because he saved health packs and was easy to cover from an SCL bundle. I wanted OBW, but had trouble getting her covers.

3*s - Cage and Fist because they came in an SCL bundle. I also got lucky covering Switch. After that, I pursued Strange and IM40 through BH. I got lucky covering Thanos and got a 5* from a new release store token. It was perfect. 

4*s - Medusa and Carnage because they came in HFH bundles. Once Kitty was announced, my plan was to break the hoard and BH Grocket. That worked, and I champed Grocket and Medusa right away. Ghost and Carnage came soon after. At this point, I had killer teams for all situations, so I didn't focus on any particular 4*s because they wouldn't change my daily battles.  When Dazzler was announced, I pursued her because I thought it would improve my shield sim play.  I have her champed now, but still need to test her out more. I recently BH'd and fully covered Kraven because I thought he would help out in shield sim. 

5*s - Since my ultimate goal is 5* champs, my general focus has been acquiring LT's and CP, so champ farms are important. I don't think Loki is going to help me fight PVE or PVP battles. Obviously, Kitty is the end game for PVE, but I still need a strong 5* team for PVP. Cable is a possibility if I can find a good partner. But given my recent bad luck with Kitty, my focus now is to find good 4*s to play with Cable. It would be a temporary thing. I'm hoping the next 5* plays well with Kitty or Cable (or even Loki).

An SCL bundle is a HFH special 1-time deal that's available when you go up in rank and qualify for the next SCL. These deals are very good and go up in price the higher you go. The first deal starts at SCL 3 or 4.

AardvarkPepper

bbigler said:

An SCL bundle is a HFH special 1-time deal that's available when you go up in rank and qualify for the next SCL. These deals are very good and go up in price the higher you go. The first deal starts at SCL 3 or 4.

Thanks; the details much appreciated!

Daredevil217

If you plan to quit as soon as you champ 3 fives (the goal), who cares how good they are? Since you won’t be playing them it really shouldn’t matter, unless I’m missing something. 

Also, that money you spent is super significant. It looks like you’ve spent hundreds on the game. I’m guessing between 500-1K in a few months? That’s way way WAY more than I’ve spent in 4+ years of playing ($2 a month for maybe a year and one Taskmaster bundle is it). I do believe that any player can enter 5* play quickly if they spend big. But then it’s not just about playing optimally and chasing the right characters. The money is just as important as all of that and is arguably a contaminant in your experiment. 

Dogface

Spending money is like jumping the queue. From an experimental standpoint it would be more interesting to see how fast you could champ a 5* if playing for free. I understand this would take a long long time, so i get why you would want to spend, but still spending gives a skewed perspective.
If you stay on this forum for some time, probably gonna be after you quit the game, i could tell you how long it takes to champ a 5* for free. My highest ranked 5* is 405 atm after 1056 days of play.

AardvarkPepper

Daredevil217 said:

If you plan to quit as soon as you champ 3 fives (the goal), who cares how good they are? Since you won’t be playing them it really shouldn’t matter, unless I’m missing something.

It's his show, so he does things the way he wants.  Fair enough, don't you think?

Daredevil217 said:

Also, that money you spent is super significant. It looks like you’ve spent hundreds on the game. I’m guessing between 500-1K in a few months? That’s way way WAY more than I’ve spent in 4+ years of playing ($2 a month for maybe a year and one Taskmaster bundle is it). I do believe that any player can enter 5* play quickly if they spend big. But then it’s not just about playing optimally and chasing the right characters. The money is just as important as all of that and is arguably a contaminant in your experiment. 

I would agree, except I don't think bbigler specified he was going to spend minimal money (he did say something about "smart" purchases I think).  So rather than being a "contaminant" I'd say it is what is is.

Dogface said:

Spending money is like jumping the queue. From an experimental standpoint it would be more interesting to see how fast you could champ a 5* if playing for free. I understand this would take a long long time, so i get why you would want to spend, but still spending gives a skewed perspective.
If you stay on this forum for some time, probably gonna be after you quit the game, i could tell you how long it takes to champ a 5* for free. My highest ranked 5* is 405 atm after 1056 days of play.

The timeframe changes if you do things optimally in terms of trying to champ a 5* for free (doing that optimally means doing other things suboptimally).  The timeframe also changes depending on event participation, optimal roster building, small expenditures, &c.

bbigler

Daredevil217 said:

Also, that money you spent is super significant. It looks like you’ve spent hundreds on the game. I’m guessing between 500-1K in a few months? That’s way way WAY more than I’ve spent in 4+ years of playing ($2 a month for maybe a year and one Taskmaster bundle is it). I do believe that any player can enter 5* play quickly if they spend big. But then it’s not just about playing optimally and chasing the right characters. The money is just as important as all of that and is arguably a contaminant in your experiment. 

My restart experiment mimics a new player who is competitive and wants to reach the top ASAP, and is willing to spend some money. BUT, it is far, far, far away from whaling to 5* land. Most competitive players probably spend $10 - $50 a month on the game. A competitive FTP player I believe is in the minority. Everyone in my alliance keeps their VIP going, but they aren't whales.

A single purchase makes almost no difference in your overall progression. Many little purchases over months still makes little difference. For example, in the SCL bundles you can get 3 - 6 covers for a 3* or 4*. Which means that you still need to collect the other 7 - 10 covers like everyone else. The reality is that purchases only give you a small hop forward. But my main reason for making purchases was to get HP for 150+ slots so that I had zero waste. For my experiment to be the ideal strategy, i had to have no wasted covers. What does make a big difference in your progression is how much time and effort you put into the game. That separates the strong from the average. 

Just for clarity (as far as I can remember) I spent $172 on 7 SCL bundles and $90 on straight HP. I think I spent another $100 on HFH deals and $70 on VIP. That totals $432 over 7 months, which is $61 per month. That's on the high side for the average competitive player, but I'll be spending less going forward. The 2 starks I purchased during Christmas actually made no difference in my progress. It didn't help me cover Kitty, Cable will get covered regardless and I don't care about kingpin. It also didn't help me champ 4*s any faster, that's dependent on ISO. In the marathon of MPQ, purchases only shave off minutes from your end time, not hours. 

Despite my purchases, the strategy I'm using to reach 5* play can be used by FTP players, the timeline will only be a little longer. 

bbigler

Daredevil217 said:

If you plan to quit as soon as you champ 3 fives (the goal), who cares how good they are? Since you won’t be playing them it really shouldn’t matter, unless I’m missing something. 

My experiment is done when I champ 3 x 5*s, but I want to play in 5* land for a little bit to see how it goes and then I'll quit. Obviously, I really like this game, but it sucks too much time away from my life. So, I'll quit for my own good. 

HoundofShadow

Thanks for answering my question. Just to share in return, I'm quite a competitive 100% FTP player and I have played this game for close to 400 in-game days. I'm not in a top 250 alliance by any means.

Based on my CP usage tracking, I would have ~7000CP by now if I could control my itch. I have about 80 LTs now. That would have put me at a total of about 360 LT pulls. This is despite the fact that I have to roster, sell and re-roster 3* and 4* characters early and late in the game. 

7 months of play is about 210 days. You are close to your goals or should have reached your goal. It seems spending 432 helped you to shave off about 40-50% (200-250 days / 400 days) of in-game days to reach 5* land (3 champed 5*)?

bluewolf

If it matters, I am a mostly FTP player.  I bought an occasional HP bonus offer (usually just $20), became VIP when that was available.  This year I've bought a good number of the bundles that appealed to me.

I did something kind of weird where I literally played like a node a day for about 4 months, then moved into serious play about 3 1/2 years ago.  It took a little over 2 years to get a fully covered 5 (Ock) then Spidey was my first champ after Vulture became his feeder and I didn't want to let the cover go to waste. (So about 2 1/4 years from serious play to a champed 5).  I stuck with a random public ally I joined early on for all that time, and probably could have made faster progress elsewhere, but it is what it is.  By the end of 2017 I had Thor champed, was using him with Gambit (12 covers), champed DD after Kingpin became his feeder, and have champed all 5's since (except Wasp, Cable, and Kingpin, so far).  I should also note that I never use check rooms and didn't hit 900 until I had champ 4's, and 1200 is a relatively recent goal for me (about 4-5 months ago).

I do not hold myself as an example of the fastest anyone could champ a 5 for free, but an illustration of an average timeline.  You need to play hard to ever get to that point, without question.

AardvarkPepper

bbigler said:

That totals $432 over 7 months,

Despite my purchases, the strategy I'm using to reach 5* play can be used by FTP players, the timeline will only be a little longer. 

Any time someone uses nonspecific phrases like "a little longer" readers should be suspicious.

It won't be a "little" longer.  It will be a lot longer.

HoundofShadow said:

Thanks for answering my question. Just to share in return, I'm quite a competitive 100% FTP player and I have played this game for close to 400 in-game days. I'm not in a top 250 alliance by any means.

Based on my CP usage tracking, I would have ~7000CP by now if I could control my itch. I have about 80 LTs now. That would have put me at a total of about 360 LT pulls. This is despite the fact that I have to roster, sell and re-roster 3* and 4* characters early and late in the game. 

7 months of play is about 210 days. You are close to your goals or should have reached your goal. It seems spending 432 helped you to shave off about 40-50% (200-250 days / 400 days) of in-game days to reach 5* land (3 champed 5*)?

But you're not competitive, except insofar as you are defining "competitive" by a personal standard, rather than a comparative standard.  And how can it be competitive if you're not comparing?  How can it be competitive if you're not optimizing?

Let's unpack what I just wrote a little.  You wrote you're a "competitive 100% FTP player" "not in a top 250 alliance", "would have ~7000CP by now".

Within two months, a free player can legitimately be a member of a top 100 hybrid alliance - that is, top 100 in both PvE and PvP.  It takes some doing, yes, but if you've amassed 400 days of play in which you were fairly active "around 7000 CP" - you should have been able to do the same.

But you didn't.

And this is relevant because top 100 alliances earn better rewards than alliances not in the top 100.  Ideally one would go higher than top 100 but in practice that's quite difficult (though possible, just barely, if one works at it)

So how can a new free to play player be a member of a top 100 hybrid alliance so quickly?

1)  In the beginning, the player pretty much has nothing.  Play through prologue, do PvP, and PvE at maximum convenient level ASAP, doing lightning rounds as well.  This establishes your early base of standard, elite, and heroic tokens, and some CP as well.  This period lasts I'd say two weeks.

2)  By the time a player plays for two weeks, they've established a roster with 1* Juggernaut (ideally), and the thirteen non-Bagman 2*s, and should be able to play PvE SCL 4 or so (ideally).  At PvE SCL 4, the player earns the 3* Essential character as a progression prize about halfway through the event.  This combined with having the entire lineup of non-Bagman 2*s, means a player that does optimal clears is guaranteed maximum progression in PvE.

A player that has developed their roster to this point can also keep character levels down so they find easier matches in PvP.

To substantiate these points, look at the alliance recruitment board, and the general discussion board on these d3go forums.  A lot of top 100 PvE alliances only require maximum progression, and though top 100 PvP ideally requires 900 or so, in practice one can find alliances with lesser requirements.  I should know, I merc a lot.

So at this point, the player personally has a pretty weak roster, but can still put out the required points to be in top 100 alliances.

You'll find a lot of veteran commanders are dubious about taking on players that have 2* rosters.  But if players can demonstrate that they can make the points - and they can - then commanders come around.  Not all commanders, but it only takes one.

3)  During the next month and a half, the player wants to develop their roster to the point it can handle PvE SCL 4, SCL 6, and SCL 7.  SCL 4 is where 3*s are first rewarded as progression.  SCL 6 is where one earns maximum progression rewards *without* getting a 4* cover as progression.  SCL 7 is where one earns 4* covers as progression.

The reasons for this are - PvE SCL 4 lets a player play with a relatively weak roster and/or save real time playing.  SCL 6 is for players that want to push rewards (or SCL 5 as it were).  But even a few well chosen championed 3*s, along with some team-ups, allow a player to handle SCL 7.  And though this hypothetical free player doesn't have a load of HP so doesn't have loads of excess roster slots, so doesn't want to just be playing SCL 7 all the time (they can't afford to roster a load of 4*S anyways), they still want to play at SCL 7 whenever a *good* 4* character comes up as a progression reward.

4)  From that point, a player develops their 4* roster.  They come to the point that they have enough Elite tokens &c that they have to make a choice - either they seriously hoard to accelerate their 5*, *or* they open up a lot of tokens and end up having to sell a lot of 4*s for iso, but get 4*s that let them cut their times.  I recommend the latter at first, then hoarding for 5*s.

Note)  One can always be guaranteed to have the Essential characters in PvE if they keep two roster slots open and consistently play at SCL 7+.  The Essential 3* character is earned early in the event, the Essential 4* character about halfway through the event.  This trades PvE point progression and PvE node rewards (often not great) for what would otherwise be slots devoted to 3*s.  But consistent higher progression makes a player more appealing to alliances.  If one considers the rewards for being in a top 100 alliance, versus not being in a top 100 alliance, and multiplies that by all the events one has in a year, it adds up, and outweighs what one would have gained from simply rostering another fixed 3* or couple of 3*s.

5)  After that, I'd say a player should collect 4* Rocket and Groot and 4* Medusa.  Then a number of others, like 4* Gamora, Vulture, Captain Marvel, Agent Coulson, bunch of others are nice.   This is to cut the real time a player has to spend in-game

Note 2)  During this process, I think a player screws their PvP progress if they collect 5*s.  Though I'd have to document it personally to verify.

==

OK now I'm going to go back to the beginning about bbigler's "it just takes a little longer".  No it really doesn't take a little longer, it takes a lot longer.  And here is why.

First, when you're a regular spender, you get random rewards as you play.  I think the bonuses last for a month after purchase, so VIPs are always getting it.  The rewards add up.  bbigler might not think it, but it does, especially when you're multiplying daily gains by seven months.

Second, bbigler wrote he purchased HP for roster slots.  Not that I'm criticizing that practice.  But think about the process.  You buy roster slots, you can roster all your 4* covers.  You roster all your 4* covers, you don't have to discard any.

Now what did I write above?  A new player needs to accelerate their 3* development to the point they're able to play PvE SCL 7 at any time.  Then after that, one needs to accelerate their 4* development to the point they've got 4* Rocket and Groot and 4* Medusa, because those are big time savers.  At both times, a player needs to open a load of tokens, AND WITH LIMITED ROSTER SLOTS THAT MEANS A LOT OF COVERS GET DISCARDED.

So there's bbigler rostering all the characters.  We're not talking about a single character's covers getting discarded.  We're talking about several dozens of characters.  Because what do you think the difference is between a player that has 32 roster slots and has a 1* Juggernaut, the thirteen non-Bagman 2*s, twelve selected 3*s, and four selected 4*s?  (And keeping two slots open to rotate characters and/or farm 1*s).  As opposed to a player that has as many roster slots as they want, and even if they only have a single 1* and thirteen 2*s, it's what - 47 3*s and 77 4*s?  Plus 23 5*s?  Or whatever it is.  It's a lot.  You're talking one player keeping sixteen 3*+ character slots rostered, and getting the champion rewards off that, where another player's keeping a hundred plus 3*+ character slots.  How can you even compare?

So yeah you had better believe it's a LOT longer.  Because if you're not spending money to get those roster slots, either you hoard a lot longer which means you grind for months and months more before you can hit PvE SCL 4 and 7 respectively - and that means your whole progress is slowed right there, mind you're also losing out on HP rewards that you need to grow your roster.  OR you are opening tokens to accelerate your development and earning HP to expand your roster faster, but in the process you MUST discard character covers because you don't have the HP to keep them.

Even if you say bbigler didn't buy up their roster slots to capacity - the fact that he bought substantial roster slots at all mean the probabilities are skewed.  When you're collecting 70 characters in a tier as opposed to 4 characters in a tier, it's just that much more likely that a particular character will get more covers on it what with random pulls and/or events.  (Not to mention bbigler wrote he also purchased packs that rewarded *particular* characters which totally throws the probabilities out the window).

So real talk here people.  If you play it smart, you can cut your time to championed 5* land.  But let's not say it just "takes a little longer" and try to go off bbigler's choices.  If you think as a free player you're going to come close to that level of development in anywhere near the time, it's a flat no.  Not going to happen.

Free players need to pick one.  Either they hoard forever, and don't earn better in-game rewards because their rosters are so weak (so they end up having to grind longer).  Or they open tokens to accelerate their development when they develop their starting 3* and 4* rosters respectively, and end up having to sell covers for iso, which ALSO means they have to grind longer).  Mind the latter is a better way to get faster HP and CP so to my mind is the better choice.  But either way, that choice is a choice bbigler didn't make - as I read it.

So yeah, I mean if bbigler wants to keep a personal journal, that's great and everything, and if he wants to say he only spent the minimum or this or that, sure.  I can go with that, really.  But I'm going to point out $473 is maybe a lot more than some other players' "minimum", and that saying the purchases didn't really make much difference and that iso is the limiting factor is . . . not the whole story okay?  It's not.

==

Back to HoundofShadow - My GUESS, though I haven't worked out the numbers, is that a free to play can make the transition to three championed 5*s in two years IF they play optimally in the sense they are prioritizing having three championed 5*s AND if they grind like h e double hockey sticks.  As I wrote, there are tradeoffs, and doing things optimally one way means doing them suboptimally in others.  I leave you to imagine how much less powerful a roster is for not having opened on the order of 500 Latest Legendary tokens  (Mind I'm not even going into buying 25 CP Latest Legends tokens as opposed to 20 CP "regular" tokens . . . anyways yeah there's tradeoffs).

bbigler

@AardvarkPepper Wow, that's a lot to read. You made a good point about Bonus rewards, they do add up quickly and I forgot about that factor (but you could get them for $2/month). I used the term "a little longer" because I don't know how much longer. Maybe 10% longer,  maybe 20% or even 30% longer.

The best way to compare is by how long it takes to hoard approximately 375 pulls being FTP or paying $500 spread out along the way. Whales spend $500 a month, so they can reach that number very quickly. I estimate that I can hit 375 pulls around day 260. @HoundofShadow said that he hit 360 pulls around day 400. But he could get better alliance rewards. 

One of the reasons I restarted was to show everyone that new players can reach 5* play in less than a year. I don't know how long it would take a FTP player, but it would be interesting to find out. Plus, the strategy for an FTP player is not straightforward: deciding who to roster is difficult. Wasting covers is painful. If someone wants to do what I did without the spending, then it would take dedication, wisdom, skill and patience. 

EDIT: that doesn't mean spending takes away the need for dedication, wisdom, skill and patience.......but it lessens the need.

HoundofShadow

@AardvarkPepper

By competitive, I meant getting :

1) Top 1-10 in SCL 6/7 PvE 
2) top 5 in SCL 6 PvP (now top 50-100 in SCL 9 PvP)
3) getting 2 Heroic Tokens in Lightning rounds most of the time

Even though I'm not in a top 100 alliance, it doesn't stop me from being able to earn ~7000 CP and 80 LTs at close to Day 400 without spending a single dime. However, if I were to join a top 100 alliance, I could have hit 5* land way before Day 400, probably by Day 365.

Based on my experience, I am very confident to say that a 100% FTP competitive player can hit 3 champed 5* within 1 year and 1 month.