I'm Back.........and I'm Starting Over

bbigler

ThaRoadWarrior said:

This is definitely interesting. My own transition with a non-meta 5* has not been as rad lol. My top 5 characters right now in Right Hand Man are:

1. Gho5t Rider (452)
2. Coulson (415) 
3. C4rol (385)
4. Elektr4 (379)
5. L4dy Thor (376)

The only times I'm seeing a team of all-4* characters is when all 3 are boosted up into the 400s, every other team has some kind of 5* component to it. As long as Bishop isn't part of the equation, I can beat at least baby-champ Gritty teams in 4* PVP, but i get slaughtered in 3* pvp. I've hit 900 twice since i champed GRRR, otherwise it's been 40 wins if I want to get the 4*, and 75 wins in Simulator. Occasionally i'll just tap out after the 575 CP though. I can generally climb up near 800 in a single push, then run out of health and get slammed back down. My new float point is typically just under 400pts unshielded, whereas before as a 4* player it was up around 650.

I'm sorry PVP is so tough for you.  Getting the top meta characters definitely makes the game easier. 

On a side note, it's hard to just "play for fun" without the meta because you miss out on rewards.  But then if you do get the meta and discover your new found power, you'd probably start playing the speed game and going for rank, leaving the "playing for fun" behind.

ThaRoadWarrior

I play enough that I probably should either spend that little more effort worrying about placement (at least in pve) or just give up on one of the modes and play less, rather than being in the sort of all-modes progression hardcore casual space I find myself in. But I can't really find a time slice that works for me to actually try and place on PVE. Oh well, at some point I'll either burn out or get better lol

abenness

bbigler said:

Here's the take-away: my low MMR is both good and bad.  It's good because I can climb off of much weaker teams, but it's bad because I run out of good targets around 1100 points. 
...
Perhaps I need to champ Cable just to increase my MMR to get better targets?  I know, that's crazy.  Perhaps I need to climb earlier than the last 12 hrs, but I'm trying to avoid spending a lot of HP on shields.  Going forward, I'm going to try out Slice 1, which I hear has tons of brackets and lots of players unshielded during the event. 

Hey @bbigler any update on your PVP progress? I picked up my final cover for Kitty and am joining you in the single-champ-5* arena.  I'd like to find a reasonable path to 1200 points, but am running out of targets (in this case, 11 hours left in slice 4).
I can raise the level of my Cable or Loki, but I would only be doing that to increase my MMR, neither has a good distribution, and I wouldn't want to be using them.

bbigler

abenness said: 

Hey @bbigler any update on your PVP progress? I picked up my final cover for Kitty and am joining you in the single-champ-5* arena.  I'd like to find a reasonable path to 1200 points, but am running out of targets (in this case, 11 hours left in slice 4).
I can raise the level of my Cable or Loki, but I would only be doing that to increase my MMR, neither has a good distribution, and I wouldn't want to be using them.

Hey there @abenness. PVP has been a lot more fun lately, but it's not due to champing Kitty. First, I want to point out that climbing in PVP is highly dependent on your slice, the time left, your climbing team and your MMR.  When I played slice 2 or 4, I could climb to around 1100 using Gritty with 10 hrs left, then I would have to shield hop and barely reach 1200. This was using a 3 hr and 8 hr shield, so 225 HP. 

Now, I've switched to slice 1 which has a lot more players, which means a lot more targets.  Between 9 and 14 hrs left, I can climb above 1200 without shielding.  Then I do either 3+8 hr shields, or 3+8+3 hr shields. The number of battles each hop decreases the closer I get to the end. I usually do 3 - 2 - 1. I can also break at the end with 1 minute left for 1 more win. In the last 5 PVP events I've scored between 1411 and 1673 points! That's usually enough for top 10. 

Part of this equation is participating in a battle chat room for slice 1. The stronger players will put out a grill team for everyone to queue and later hit for fast climbing during their hop. With many players doing this, everyone can climb 100 - 200 points each hop. (A grill team is an easy team to beat, but strong enough for a quick win against another easy team. Some examples are Chavez/5*Thor or Grocket/5*Thanos.) In order to queue these high point grill teams you have to watch the chat posts and skip many times to find them. They're only available for a minute. 

With all that being said, this is how it goes now: during the first 2 days of the event, I'll climb and float between 700 and 850 points hitting anyone except Gritty worth some points. I also fight some periodic battles to keep my points up during that time. Then with 13 hrs left, I start climbing from 850 points. Once I pass 1000, I'll watch the chat room for grills and pick up 1 or 2 for the final push before shielding. This results in hitting about 1250. I continue to watch for grills and queue the best ones. Then at 10 hrs out, I'll hop hitting 3 grill teams and pass 1400. Then at 2 hrs left, I'll hop again with 1 or 2 grills. Then break at the end for 1 more, which puts me in the 1500s.  If you want to go higher, you'll need to climb earlier and do more shield hops. (These are all approximate times and points). 

It does take more time, effort and HP to reach these higher points, but I think it's worth it for some extra rewards and the thrill of it. Of course, PVP can be frustrating when you're knocked down. It's hard to judge how long you can stay unshielded before getting hit. But that's what makes it a game. I now understand why competitive players enjoy PVP more than PVE. At this level, PVE is a mindless chore. Placement in PVE can be just as frustrating, so I would say to pick one and not try to be competitive in both. Or to avoid burnout, just play "casually" to 6 clears in PVE and 1200 in PVP and never worry about placement again. You'd still make good progress that way. And a champed Kitty was the key to both for me. 

Phumade

bbigler said:

abenness said: 

Hey @bbigler any update on your PVP progress? I picked up my final cover for Kitty and am joining you in the single-champ-5* arena.  I'd like to find a reasonable path to 1200 points, but am running out of targets (in this case, 11 hours left in slice 4).
I can raise the level of my Cable or Loki, but I would only be doing that to increase my MMR, neither has a good distribution, and I wouldn't want to be using them.

Hey there @abenness. PVP has been a lot more fun lately, but it's not due to champing Kitty. First, I want to point out that climbing in PVP is highly dependent on your slice, the time left, your climbing team and your MMR.  When I played slice 2 or 4, I could climb to around 1100 using Gritty with 10 hrs left, then I would have to shield hop and barely reach 1200. This was using a 3 hr and 8 hr shield, so 225 HP. 

Now, I've switched to slice 1 which has a lot more players, which means a lot more targets.  Between 9 and 14 hrs left, I can climb above 1200 without shielding.  Then I do either 3+8 hr shields, or 3+8+3 hr shields. The number of battles each hop decreases the closer I get to the end. I usually do 3 - 2 - 1. I can also break at the end with 1 minute left for 1 more win. In the last 5 PVP events I've scored between 1411 and 1673 points! That's usually enough for top 10. 

Part of this equation is participating in a battle chat room for slice 1. The stronger players will put out a grill team for everyone to queue and later hit for fast climbing during their hop. With many players doing this, everyone can climb 100 - 200 points each hop. (A grill team is an easy team to beat, but strong enough for a quick win against another easy team. Some examples are Chavez/5*Thor or Grocket/5*Thanos.) In order to queue these high point grill teams you have to watch the chat posts and skip many times to find them. They're only available for a minute. 

With all that being said, this is how it goes now: during the first 2 days of the event, I'll climb and float between 700 and 850 points hitting anyone except Gritty worth some points. I also fight some periodic battles to keep my points up during that time. Then with 13 hrs left, I start climbing from 850 points. Once I pass 1000, I'll watch the chat room for grills and pick up 1 or 2 for the final push before shielding. This results in hitting about 1250. I continue to watch for grills and queue the best ones. Then at 10 hrs out, I'll hop hitting 3 grill teams and pass 1400. Then at 2 hrs left, I'll hop again with 1 or 2 grills. Then break at the end for 1 more, which puts me in the 1500s.  If you want to go higher, you'll need to climb earlier and do more shield hops. (These are all approximate times and points). 

It does take more time, effort and HP to reach these higher points, but I think it's worth it for some extra rewards and the thrill of it. Of course, PVP can be frustrating when you're knocked down. It's hard to judge how long you can stay unshielded before getting hit. But that's what makes it a game. I now understand why competitive players enjoy PVP more than PVE. At this level, PVE is a mindless chore. Placement in PVE can be just as frustrating, so I would say to pick one and not try to be competitive in both. Or to avoid burnout, just play "casually" to 6 clears in PVE and 1200 in PVP and never worry about placement again. You'd still make good progress that way. And a champed Kitty was the key to both for me. 

LOL  If only all players had listen to the banned  Vets 4 years ago,  We'd all be in chat rooms scoring 5k per event.  We've said this stuff ad nausem for years.  Glad to see this knowledge is starting to finally tricle down.

bbigler

Phumade said:

bbigler said:

LOL  If only all players had listen to the banned  Vets 4 years ago,  We'd all be in chat rooms scoring 5k per event.  We've said this stuff ad nausem for years.  Glad to see this knowledge is starting to finally tricle down.

I never participated in a BC until now. I just didn't want to spend more time playing the game. But I want to say that I hate the snipers/suppressors that exist in every slice. If they weren't there trying to knock people down just for the fun of it (or to help their alliance) then it would be so much easier to climb. You could easily do 3 grill shield hops.  But because of these despised people, you have to hop very fast, gambling on how many wins you can do before getting hit.

A new tactic that I thought of recently and coincidentally was implemented recently in my BC is "flooding".  This is when many people shield hop at the same time so that suppressors can't hit them all in that small window. It reminds me of baby sea turtles scrambling to the sea as sea gulls pick them off one by one, but the sheer volume of sea turtles ensures that many of them get through. 

Bowgentle

bbigler said:

A new tactic that I thought of recently and coincidentally was implemented recently in my BC is "flooding".  This is when many people shield hop at the same time so that suppressors can't hit them all in that small window. It reminds me of baby sea turtles scrambling to the sea as sea gulls pick them off one by one, but the sheer volume of sea turtles ensures that many of them get through. 

LOL.

Will you stop painting yourself as some MPQ genius please.
Flooding has been going on for years, there's nothing new about that.

bbigler

Bowgentle said:

bbigler said:

A new tactic that I thought of recently and coincidentally was implemented recently in my BC is "flooding".  This is when many people shield hop at the same time so that suppressors can't hit them all in that small window. It reminds me of baby sea turtles scrambling to the sea as sea gulls pick them off one by one, but the sheer volume of sea turtles ensures that many of them get through. 

LOL.

Will you stop painting yourself as some MPQ genius please.
Flooding has been going on for years, there's nothing new about that.

I didn't say that I was the first to think of it, but I did figure it out on my own having never heard of it before, so it was new to me.  I'll give credit to any player for figuring out a common strategy themselves before hearing it from others. 

The purpose of these posts is to help other players in a similar situation. I'm not trying to sound like a genius. 

abenness

bbigler said:

Now, I've switched to slice 1 which has a lot more players, which means a lot more targets.  Between 9 and 14 hrs left, I can climb above 1200 without shielding.  Then I do either 3+8 hr shields, or 3+8+3 hr shields. The number of battles each hop decreases the closer I get to the end. I usually do 3 - 2 - 1. I can also break at the end with 1 minute left for 1 more win. In the last 5 PVP events I've scored between 1411 and 1673 points! That's usually enough for top 10. 

Thanks heaps for the detailed info, I will try this out myself and see how I go.  With work and family, I don't have full flexibility for shield hopping, but I am especially keen on the "1200 without shielding" aspect.

With that being said, I have been shielding in pvp either to protect my final score for the last 3/8/24 hours, or to hold at 850+ for another push to 1,000 once health packs recharge.  So I already have the HP income to support it, and I might see if the times permit on a weekend sometime.

bbigler

Day 300 FINAL UPDATE: I'm done. It's finished. I've reached my goals of 5* play in less than 300 days from the very beginning.  It's been a fun and exciting ride for the past 10 months, but it's also been a tiresome, expensive, constricting and frustrating ride too.  I've enjoyed building up quickly from 1* Iron Man to 5* Kitty.  I surpassed my previous roster strength and hit some personal bests this time around.  I've become more efficient playing the game, but it's still a huge time sink that I can't live with.  I hope this long thread has been useful or interesting to people out there.  I wanted to show that new players can reach 5* play in less than a year.  It can be done, but it does take a lot of time, skill, wisdom, patience and some money.  This game is a hobby, not a game.  Building up takes a long time, but I guess that keeps it alive.  To be clear on what I've accomplished, here are my final stats and performance as of Day 300:

Stats:

Rank 121 - Roster Slots - 161

2*s - Farming entered the 7th generation

3*s - Between levels 210 => 250, the average is around 220.

4*s - 23 Champs between 272 => 285, 15 more ready to champ, 10 million total ISO deficit

5*s - 1 Champ (Kitty), 2 Fully Covered (Loki, Cable), Fatpin 4/5/2, GED 2/1/1, Marvel 0/2/5, 17 Total Rostered

Supports - 4 x 4* supports, 8 x 3* supports, 33 Total, Use only 3 - 6 regularly

Performance:

17 LL pulls per week! (about 7 LT and 250+ CP)

475K - 525K ISO per week, depending on shield rank rewards

4500 - 5500 HP per week

PVP Scoring: 1400 - 1600

PVE Ranking: top 20 SCL 9, got top 10 once

Lightning Rounds: top 25 normally

Other Notes: Finished last season's Shield Sim with 2300 points (I think).  Support Circuit is tiresome on top of everything else, so I just do 6 clears with Gritty-Dusa.  Lately, I've been liberal with AP boosts, which means I spend ISO to buy them.  A couple times I've run out of health packs when I needed them and bought some for 200 HP.  The team-ups I normally ask for are Nova, since they are great for Gritty if I run low on strikes.  I also ask for 4* jean TUs to clear the 3 required PVE nodes faster.  Timing the end PVE grind is tricky, but I have a good method for that.  I do my clears in 3 waves, going from lowest to highest.  After completing the 1st wave of clears, I check my time and give myself twice that amount of time for the 2nd and 3rd wave of clearing.  When to start that 1st wave of clearing is a judgment call based on past performance though.  Wave nodes take longer and tile movers take longer too (along with Mindless Ones).  I hate Sentries. 

The 5* Transition: I saved all LT and CP until I had champed all 3*s, then I busted the hoard to build my 4*s and 5*s at the same time.  Luckily for me a top tier 5* was in the pool, which further helped my progression speed.  I then continued to pull to cover those 3 x 5*s, while champing 4*s every week.  Loki was covered at Day 205, and Cable at Day 229.  I gradually leveled up Kitty during this time and eventually champed her at Day 270.  Then I hoarded again until Marvel entered and got the next set of 5*s well on their way to being covered.  I could have kept hoarding and only used my pulls to get 1 cover for each new 5*.  Plus, with the other Legendary stores, I can also get 1 cover for the Classics and keep on hoarding until I can cover a top meta 5*.  This way I would never open Classics, but still roster all 5*s.  Combine this with 4* feeders and a new player can quickly roster all 5*s for PVE.  Please note that I have rostered 17 x 5*s without opening any Classics.  But I will admit that opening Classics is an alternate method for new players to jump start their 4* tier and get many of those 5*s.  But afterward, they should hoard for Latest or a good Legendary store. 

My actual timeline:

Day 15 - Champed my first 2* (Wolverine)

Day 22 - Champed my first 3* (Cage)

Day 31 - Champed all 2*s

Day 137 - Champed all 3*s

Day 161 - Champed 2 x 4*s (Grocket & Medusa)

Day 205 - Covered my first 5* (Loki)

Day 229 - Covered my 2nd 5* (Cable)

Day 250 - Started getting 15+ LL pulls per week

Day 270 - Covered my 3rd 5* (Kitty)

Future Projections: If I continue playing at this level, I should be able to cover all new 5*s going forward.  Most of my 3*s are between 210 and 230, so I shouldn't have to start devoting HP to 3* dupes for another 20 weeks.  That would be 20 weeks of great champ rewards.  I've had no problem at all covering 4*s, despite dilution, but out of the 23 Champs I have, 8 of them are top tier.  I'm only missing Gamora & Chavez.  With my ISO production, I could champ a 4* every 6 days, so I could finish the 4* tier in about a year.  Rostering all 5*s may take 6 - 12 months, I'm not sure.  But I think I've accomplished a lot in these past 300 days and I hope that documenting my journey has helped some people out there. 

abenness

Thanks again for this thread, it’s been very valuable info for me and an interesting discussion.

Recommendations I would make to a new player (on top of all the existing guide stuff):
1. Once you recognise the game has it’s hooks into you, budget to spend $200 or more
2. Buy any double-HP deal that comes out
3. Buy HP if needed until you at least have all 3* rostered (no covers wasted)
4. Play SCL7 as soon as you are capable (4* progression cover, 100HP per day for top50 sub placement)
5. Hoard Heroics until you have the income for a new slot within 14 days (in case of pulling 4*)
6. Join a competitive alliance
7. Find or build a team that allows you to be competitive for placement in scl8 or 9
8. Even when your team is woefully outmatched by other rosters, don’t give up, because people miss optimal play for all sorts of reasons and even top20, top50 can give you the extra 4* cover.
9. Look out more for a special store with Okoye or Kitty rather than the “3 x great latest 5*” that everyone talks about.
10. Don’t be scared to level a strong/meta 5* if you have good coverage, and a team for them (eg Kitty and Grocket)

eg if I had kept hoarding through Kitty, and then had all that CP to spend in the Kitty/Thor/Okoye store, wow.  But, this is mitigated by a newer player relying more on LL tokens, specifically those earned from champing their 3* and alliance events, which couldn’t be used in a special store.

Of all of these, I did 4, 7, 8 and 10 only hahaha.

abenness

@bbigler can you clarify where your 5* have come from? 6 are from LL, which of the others were fed and which have you picked up in the stores?

For comparison, I’ve been lucky with single-covers from classics (which I don’t pull many of), picking up both Spidermen, Doc Ock, Okoye, Thanos, JJ, Thor

bbigler

I forgot to mention that in 300 Days I've pulled a total of 485 Legendary tokens, but not all of them were from Latest.  I did pull from some of the other Legendary stores, which is how I got most of my Classic 5*s.  I got 5*Doc Ock from Carnage hitting 280 though.  And before I even busted my 1st hoard I got some Classic 5*s from Boss Event LTs. 

In case everyone doesn't know this, I did write a 2019 Progressing Fast Guide in the Tips & Guides section.