Changes to PVP bracket creation? Devs please comment

Unknown

This game was actually fun to play before these changes. Even when I first started and the best I could hope for was a 2* cover and I had to work hard to reach but I could definitely reach it, it was fun. Once I advanced to 2* and was going for 3* covers, it was fun. Now, it's not. This really sucks. The enjoyment of the game is missing.

daveomite

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

daveomite wrote:

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

ok, so correct me if I'm wrong: People have been moaning about being punished for successfully playing in PVP for months (hence the need for tanking).

Now to answer that, they drastically lowered the effect of tanking and to balance that put successful players into hyper-competitive brackets to punish them even more? Makes perfect sense, right?

it seems to be part of their thought process I guess. "Oh look, those people like to play a lot! And look! They actually buy some shields from time to time! Let's throw them all into the same brackets as they obviously love a challenge!!". Yeah...that sort of mentality, I guess.

it's pretty crazy...I didn't have much time to play this weekend, so I couldn't grind that much..and since most opponents are 141 grinding is harder than it used to be too...in the end managed to go up to 654 points, which a few weeks ago might have even been enough for top 10, and definately enough for top 25.....I ended up 86th...yay

yeah...it's weird how much it has changed in such a short amount of time.

Unknown

finwe wrote:

Tried joining with 2 accounts today.

Main account - top 10 avg hero lvl 100. Got into a bracket where I already saw 4 people I've been also bracketed with in Top Gun and Docters Orders. Current top ten is already shielded and around 1000 points.

Steam account - Mix of * and ** heroes all low level. Got into a bracket with complete unknowns. Currently 1st place is at hardcore 300 points with a roster of avg lvl 50.

Just a small update on this.

Main account 1st place had 1200, I got 9th with about 1k. Relatively "easy" bracket compared to my last two tourneys.
**** account: 1st place was 679, 499 points was good enough for top 10.

My best guess now is that roster strength definitely plays a role in bracketing. Question is what exactly, levels, covers, slots, days played, games won, who knows.

So yeah, I'm really happy now I spent all that time leveling up my heroes. That 1,5 mio ISO was well spent to improve my chances in tournaments... /s

daveomite

finwe wrote:

finwe wrote:

Tried joining with 2 accounts today.

Main account - top 10 avg hero lvl 100. Got into a bracket where I already saw 4 people I've been also bracketed with in Top Gun and Docters Orders. Current top ten is already shielded and around 1000 points.

Steam account - Mix of * and ** heroes all low level. Got into a bracket with complete unknowns. Currently 1st place is at hardcore 300 points with a roster of avg lvl 50.

Just a small update on this.

Main account 1st place had 1200, I got 9th with about 1k. Relatively "easy" bracket compared to my last two tourneys.
**** account: 1st place was 679, 499 points was good enough for top 10.

My best guess now is that roster strength definitely plays a role in bracketing. Question is what exactly, levels, covers, slots, days played, games won, who knows.

So yeah, I'm really happy now I spent all that time leveling up my heroes. That 1,5 mio ISO was well spent to improve my chances in tournaments... /s

thanks for that info finwe. .. and yeah, looks like strength of roster does factor in, but the question is how?

My GF and I had both started the Brakadoom event at approximately the same time. In mine, top spot was 1,401, with all of the top 9 above 1k. I was in 5th with 1043.

In her account, she managed to wind up in the bracket with bugpop, krow, nazerith, etc. Top spot, also at 1,401. She ended 131st with 632 points.

She doesn't even have one leveled 2* yet. Her best being a 77 mThor and 77 OBW.

Unknown

This ****'s been getting out of control ever since the season started.

The last few runs of Doctor's Orders, God Of Lies, Krakadoom, etc., have all had top 10s which were well north of 900, with Krakadoom in particular having a top 10 which started in the mid-1000 range. And I'm pretty sure most of these brackets didn't have a lot of SHIELD, 5DV, etc., members in them either.

Unknown

Tyronepowers wrote:

To add fuel to the fire, I had never won a PVP before but just placed first in the recent RAGS tourney. I shielded near the end and then just played out the last 30 minutes or so just to keep my place. I would win a match and then lose as many points from and attack.

I finished in the top spot with only 767. My roster is 2*s 70-85 level and a bunch of level 20 3*.

I plan to play in the Loki tourney and see if it is any different.

See i think this definitely plays a part, they must have the logic that if they give free wins to newer players they have to spend more money to open up more cover slots and then possibly pay more ISO and HP to level those characters. I assume that's why they do it PVE also. It's just such a stupid system. It needs to be just straight luck of the draw time based like it was.

Unknown

It seems the proper way to view any change like this is the following:

Imagine you're a brand new player (new money)

You step into the game and you keep winning tournaments without having a clue what you're doing. WOW I'm so naturally gifted, I think I like this. I'll buy that stark salary, no 3!

In PVE . . . WOW I'm slaughtering all these level 20 enemies while everyone thinks they're so tough. I'm naturally gifted! I think I'll buy some HP to try these other 35 characters and slots.

Now:
Imagine you're an established player (doesn't need to spend money)
Over at D3 headquarters: These guys with all their 141s are taking up too much drive space. They play too fast and are costing us major bandwidth. They have an unfair advantage by playing longer so their invested time is an imbalance to our profits. They won't pay their P2W fee anymore so we need to do something about it. Lets save on rent and throw them all in one room together. This way 1 established player out of 100 will win top prize leaving many many prizes to the new players so they have to buy character slots and perhaps covers.
By penalizing long time players, maybe they will leave and turn over the player base more quickly to new spenders.


Why in the world does D3 think punishing progress is necessary? 1* players should be fighting for 2* covers, 2* players should be fighting for 3* covers and 3* players should be fighting for the 4* cover slot.

Games become more enjoyable as you feel powerful and accomplished. If D3 continues to scale everything to make this sense of accomplishment less and less, people will not have fun and will most likely move on. End of money stream

Unknown

I am by no means hardcore so don't mock my high-scores, but I too am quite annoyed by this change. I have recently maxed out a few of my 2* covers and have slowly, over the past couple months, began to grow my 3* roster. During the Top Gun event, I posted my highest ever score (725ish) and shielded for 8hrs in the #6 position. Typically, I wouldn't buy a shield, since I need the HP for slots, but figured I'd need it to survive 8hrs and still finish top 25, or at worst top 50. I ended up in 96th place and got a MN.Mags cover. I haven't finished that low this entire calendar year, but despite my best score ever that's where I ended up.

The time-based bracketing model just makes way more sense to me. You could join early and play occasionally for the 2.5 day duration of the event, or join late and grind for 12hrs. Regardless of your choice you would often finish with a similar reward. I thought this was rectified by the addition of alliances. Since ranks are based on total points overall, and not bracket-based, it was to your benefit to join early and rack up as many points as possible to help out your alliance.

In any case this sucks. Under the old model I was constantly grinding for HP to unlock an additional slot, and had strongly considered braking my F2P tendencies and paying for new slots. This new change makes me want to quit more than anything else.

Rootbreaker

What's the point of improving your roster if you end up paired against harder people and still can't earn the best rewards?

Unknown

D3 gets away with all of this nonsense simply because their game carries the Marvel name. Without it the game would have died ages ago and many people would have lost their jobs.

Alternatively, if this game didn't have the Marvel safety net, the Devs might actually be much more interested in creating a long-lasting, fun game rather than chasing the "mythical $1 ARPDAU"

morgh

This is 100% true... I know I would have stopped bothering with all the plain unintelligent changes if it had not been for Marvel universe...
Unfortunately they know it too and feel like anything goes...

daveomite

+1 to both gobstopper and morgh above ^^

Completely agree 150%.

What keeps me playing is the fact that I love the Marvel universe, and the conversations and people on this forum.

Unknown

LoreNYC wrote:

It seems the proper way to view any change like this is the following:
Games become more enjoyable as you feel powerful and accomplished. If D3 continues to scale everything to make this sense of accomplishment less and less, people will not have fun and will most likely move on. End of money stream

Quite accurate. I have one 3* maxed at 141, and a second cover capped at 102. Need 3 more (of the same) covers for it. Of course I could continue playing and hope that at some point I'll get those three. Or, I could spend $100 on HP, use the equivalent of $18.75 worth of that HP and level it up. And up until a week or two ago, I was planning on doing just that. I haven't spent HP on covers before but I have bought HP and used it on token packs when they guaranteed specific 3* characters. I felt completely satisfied doing that. It's a game I enjoy playing, and I felt like for the amount of hours I've played, I was getting an excellent return on money equaling time played. Good use of entertainment money.

But now, I can't see doing that. I feel like the "better" I get at the game, the harder and less rewarding it gets. I'm not expecting it to feel like I've got the godmode cheats enabled once I've leveled up a bit, but I certainly don't enjoy feeling like the game is harder and more of a grind than my first few days when I was doing 3-4 damage a tile and worrying I'd be able to kill those doom bots. That was at least fun and exciting since everything was new.

The game should be encouraging me and enticing me to spend my money leveling up my characters and buying roster slots so I can have more characters. It isn't. It is providing a disincentive to achieve success. It is discouraging the use of resources on collecting and leveling (since the characters are as close to 'tangible' items as a digital game can be) and telling me I should spend it on shields, boosts, and health packs (temporary items). I feel no sense of pride, accomplishment, or ownership over those things like I would when I can go into my roster and look at my character collection.

trey9

Really curious to see what the devs have to say about this new change. Was sort of expecting some comment today considering how much attention this thread and the "this game isn't fun anymore" thread have been getting this past week.

Unknown

I have some information for the group to ponder:

I joined the Loki tourney at 4:30est with both my alt and main. They are both in the same bracket. #1-5 were at 300+ pts. #1 had a roster of 141s. 2-5 had maxed out 2*.

- Main has 3 - 3* @ 141's (cMags, Punisher, Patch), Several at 100. Finished Rags tourney in top 25. Was fighting all 141 teams (wasn't planning on shielding, had to when the 40+ hits started coming in. Until Doctor's orders I had top 5 every single tourney for a month.)

- Alt has 4 - 2* @ 85 (Ares, Thor, Wolverine, cStorm). Finished 6th in Rags Tourney. Was fighting 2* 60-85 teams with an occasional IM35 or mStorm @50. At some point only 3* teams lvl112+ started appearing. Killed a few with help from the desert and shielded)

- In Loki tourney fought to 300pts, wall to wall 141's I was hitting for 35+ points, eventually petering out at 12 or so. It took an hour. #1 has 1 2* @85, 1 @ 60, the rest less than 40. (yet 3 IW covers). 2-10 had several maxed 2*.


Before, after tanking, I would roll over cupcakes until I hit 2* teams. Then I would put in, OBW+Ares, cStorm+MNMags, or someone that synergized well with the featured character. Once I ran into 3*s, I put in 3*s that synergized well with the featured character. Once I ran into 141lvl teams, out came cMags+Patch. I would play until 1st then shield.I'd usually get passed by someone who really wanted that 4* but all I was really after was a top 5, achievable with 800+ points.

Now. I have to use cMags+Patch for hours, getting taken down by not only other 141 teams but, weaker teams taking advantage of the desert stage. I was first with 1043 in Doctors orders, shielded, went to bed expecting top 5/ 10 at worse, woke up @13.

What is the point of struggling to get the ever more rare 3* covers, then grinding 172,764 iso to max them out when it feels that I'm not only not making progress, but actually losing ground. I stopped playing pve with my main because of scaling, only making a token appearance for my Alliance, and now I am running into the same with pvp.

Unknown

trey9 wrote:

Really curious to see what the devs have to say about this new change. Was sort of expecting some comment today considering how much attention this thread and the "this game isn't fun anymore" thread have been getting this past week.

It looks like they are trying to lay low and wait for things to cool down for a bit before making any sort of statement, with criticism coming from all sides after the PvE screw up and that is probably requiring their immediate attention as well.
Demiurge_Will said something about the PvE event today but it wasn't really reassuring. Also he got a new book so he might be busy for the next week or two.

HailMary

I agree with most of what's been said in the last few comments. But, a couple of points:

LoreNYC wrote:

Now:
Imagine you're an established player (doesn't need to spend money)
Over at D3 headquarters: These guys with all their 141s are taking up too much drive space. They play too fast and are costing us major bandwidth. They have an unfair advantage by playing longer so their invested time is an imbalance to our profits. They won't pay their P2W fee anymore so we need to do something about it. Lets save on rent and throw them all in one room together. This way 1 established player out of 100 will win top prize leaving many many prizes to the new players so they have to buy character slots and perhaps covers.
By penalizing long time players, maybe they will leave and turn over the player base more quickly to new spenders.


Why in the world does D3 think punishing progress is necessary? 1* players should be fighting for 2* covers, 2* players should be fighting for 3* covers and 3* players should be fighting for the 4* cover slot.

I think you answered your own question, there. Once you've got a couple 141s, you're most likely not going to spend real money to open up roster slots or buy a couple of new covers. The veterans who do spend money on such things most likely won't stop simply due to MMR and bracketing changes. Ergo, from a financial standpoint, most multi-L141 players are indeed deadweight.

demnsd96 wrote:

Before, after tanking, I would roll over cupcakes until I hit 2* teams. Then I would put in, OBW+Ares, cStorm+MNMags, or someone that synergized well with the featured character. Once I ran into 3*s, I put in 3*s that synergized well with the featured character. Once I ran into 141lvl teams, out came cMags+Patch. I would play until 1st then shield.I'd usually get passed by someone who really wanted that 4* but all I was really after was a top 5, achievable with 800+ points.

Now. I have to use cMags+Patch for hours, getting taken down by not only other 141 teams but, weaker teams taking advantage of the desert stage. I was first with 1043 in Doctors orders, shielded, went to bed expecting top 5/ 10 at worse, woke up @13.

As a player who wants to get shiny things with minimal work, I love tanking. I loved the ability to demolish 1* teams up to 400-500, and bulldoze sub-L70 2* teams up to 700.

However, from the perspective of retaining newer players and keeping newer players interested in PVP, this is a terrible situation. If you've just entered a PVP with your 1* team, and are just massacred right out of the gate by utterly titanic teams, and this happens for 4 PVPs in a row, there's a decent likelihood that you'll simply throw your hands up and say "F--- this s---." That's bad for growing a profitable userbase. Thus, I think a MMR change which pits L141 teams against L85 teams right off the bat is healthy for the game -- it's bad for me, personally, but eh, I very much understand it.

However, I agree that making L141 teams fight fellow L141 teams right from the get-go is simply too much. There should indeed be an implicit roster-strength hierarchy: 1*-2* players work to get 2* covers, 2*-3* players work to get 3* covers. It's absolutely ridiculous to non-randomly create certain brackets where Top-20 = 1000+ points, and create other brackets that award first place for a sub-800 score.

EDIT: minikitty typos.

Unknown

If D3P decides they don't want to change the new bracket structure of putting all the ultra competitive players into the same grouping, i would like to see them buff the ranking rewards like Daken event.

Top 1-2: 4 star plus other reward
3-10: 2x 3*** covers, 100 HP, 3000 ISO
10-25: 2x 3*** covers, 100 HP, 2500 ISO
25-50: 1x 3*** covers, 50 HP, 2000 ISO
50-75: 1x 3*** covers, 50 HP, 2000 ISO

I would also like to see them replace the 600 point progression reward (2** cover) with another event token. Now that 2 star covers are being given out like candy as PVP mission rewards, i feel like it makes more sense to have a second event token added.

kensterr

daveomite wrote:

+1 to both gobstopper and morgh above ^^

Completely agree 150%.

What keeps me playing is the fact that I love the Marvel universe, and the conversations and people on this forum.

I gave MPQ the bird and decided to spend over $100 on Comixology sales instead. Getting enjoyment from reading comics again and I don't get screwed over for reading.

Unknown

TLDR-
The silly **** they do when they could just make new characters and fix existing characters.