Changes to PVP bracket creation? Devs please comment

daveomite

kensterr wrote:

daveomite wrote:

+1 to both gobstopper and morgh above ^^

Completely agree 150%.

What keeps me playing is the fact that I love the Marvel universe, and the conversations and people on this forum.

I gave MPQ the bird and decided to spend over $100 on Comixology sales instead. Getting enjoyment from reading comics again and I don't get screwed over for reading.

lol...classic. yeah, sort of like earlier today, during the "comm link disruption".... I opted to rewrite part of Gillilan's Islands theme song in that tread instead of throwing my phone. It was literally one or the other for me at that time, as it's just so fun not being able to log into the game at all.

Edit:... fyi, you are one of 3-4 people on the forum it will NOT let me thumb up. Keeps telling me "you can't add reputation so soon", even if I hadn't added rep anywhere else. So...I tried, but your thumb up button is tiny kittied for me.

Unknown

daveomite wrote:

lol...classic. yeah, sort of like earlier today, during the "comm link disruption".... I opted to rewrite part of Gillilan's Islands theme song in that tread instead of throwing my phone. It was literally one or the other for me at that time, as it's just so fun not being able to log into the game at all.

Edit:... fyi, you are one of 3-4 people on the forum it will NOT let me thumb up. Keeps telling me "you can't add reputation so soon", even if I hadn't added rep anywhere else. So...I tried, but your thumb up button is tiny kittied for me.

Yes, that song was epic!

And I think you can only give a person so many thumbs up in a 24 hr period of time. Not sure what that cap is, but there are a few of you guys that I cannot thumbs again until tomorrow. (You being one of them. lol)

daveomite

aaronschmiz wrote:

daveomite wrote:

lol...classic. yeah, sort of like earlier today, during the "comm link disruption".... I opted to rewrite part of Gillilan's Islands theme song in that tread instead of throwing my phone. It was literally one or the other for me at that time, as it's just so fun not being able to log into the game at all.

Edit:... fyi, you are one of 3-4 people on the forum it will NOT let me thumb up. Keeps telling me "you can't add reputation so soon", even if I hadn't added rep anywhere else. So...I tried, but your thumb up button is tiny kittied for me.

Yes, that song was epic!

And I think you can only give a person so many thumbs up in a 24 hr period of time. Not sure what that cap is, but there are a few of you guys that I cannot thumbs again until tomorrow. (You being one of them. lol)

I don't think I've been able to thumb him up for at least a couple of days though. And lol...thanks!

kensterr

D3P dislikes bromance

daveomite

kensterr wrote:

D3P dislikes bromance

Hardeeharhar. What is it that D3P likes then?

scottee

I don't know if it's been said in this thread, but I think how this came about was obvious.

Many people complained that only top players win the top prizes, making it hard for others to progress. So guess what? They made it so people of all levels can win top prizes.

Be careful what you whine for on an internet forum. Sometimes you get it, and then realize it's not what you wanted. Mainly because you didn't understand the consequences of what you whined for.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

I don't know if it's been said in this thread, but I think how this came about was obvious.

Many people complained that only top players win the top prizes, making it hard for others to progress. So guess what? They made it so people of all levels can win top prizes.

Be careful what you whine for on an internet forum. Sometimes you get it, and then realize it's not what you wanted. Mainly because you didn't understand the consequences of what you whined for.

No, they made it so new players can win top prizes. Established players can still win top prizes if they really care to. It's the level 85ish players who were most likely to be complaining about top players getting prizes that are the most locked out. Somehow I don't think that's getting what they wanted.

daveomite

scottee wrote:

I don't know if it's been said in this thread, but I think how this came about was obvious.

Many people complained that only top players win the top prizes, making it hard for others to progress. So guess what? They made it so people of all levels can win top prizes.

Be careful what you whine for on an internet forum. Sometimes you get it, and then realize it's not what you wanted. Mainly because you didn't understand the consequences of what you whined for.

not following what you mean. How are newer player supposed to compete and win the top prizes, when they wind up in a bracket where at least the top 5 are over 1k with 141 teams?

Example is my own better half. She had no chance to even get close in the Krakadoom event. So, not sure how she's doing better and excelling with that.

Spoit

Impulse wrote:

scottee wrote:

I don't know if it's been said in this thread, but I think how this came about was obvious.

Many people complained that only top players win the top prizes, making it hard for others to progress. So guess what? They made it so people of all levels can win top prizes.

Be careful what you whine for on an internet forum. Sometimes you get it, and then realize it's not what you wanted. Mainly because you didn't understand the consequences of what you whined for.

No, they made it so new players can win top prizes. Established players can still win top prizes if they really care to. It's the level 85ish players who were most likely to be complaining about top players getting prizes that are the most locked out. Somehow I don't think that's getting what they wanted.

Even top players would not be able to get the 3rd cover for top 10 if 11 or more are squished into a death bracket. Meanwhile, a person with a bunch of 1*s who can't even use it effectively basically gets it for free.

(I'd argue that the people with a partial 3* transition are impacted more than the people starting the one from 2*s, since at least the 2* person is still seeing other 2*s in their matchmaking, instead of walls of 141s)

Unknown

Sure, if you're in a newly popular death bracket, you can't claim top ten as easily as when it was evenly distributed. But top players are the ones winning them. If you have a top level roster and time, you have a shot. It's the mid level players that were formerly getting top 50 and occasional top ten placements that aren't going to be able to compete, is what I was saying.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

I don't know if it's been said in this thread, but I think how this came about was obvious.

Many people complained that only top players win the top prizes, making it hard for others to progress. So guess what? They made it so people of all levels can win top prizes.

Be careful what you whine for on an internet forum. Sometimes you get it, and then realize it's not what you wanted. Mainly because you didn't understand the consequences of what you whined for.

Nope, top players and new players can win prices. Mid tier players are stuck in a limbo where we can place just well enough to get more of what we already have, but not progress further. Going down is not an option either, because the game just doesn't let you near the lower 2*/1* rank again once you've got to a place where you're interested in getting the higher tier characters. (and believe me I considered going back to using 1* and collect all the 1* I sold away, just for the fun of it. But no way that's happening, especially with roster slots costing 350 and soon 400 HP.)

Spoit, it's true, I'm mostly seeing 2x85+featured - but only having 2* myself, how does that help me? We're as equally matched as two 2x141+featured teams. My only advantage is being able to play more strategically than the AI, but that's true for everyone.

To be completely fair, after I placed below top 100, below top 150 even last time, I appear to be in a somewhat easier bracket. No SHIELD, XMen of 5DV at least and the top 10 start at 650 which is an improvement. Of course we still have over a day to go, but I'm being cautiously optimistic I might stay in top 50 this time (only to be back in a death bracket next time, I'm sure.)

Spoit

My point is that it's a lot 'fairer' for people who have 3x85 to fight other 3x85s, compared to someone with like an average level of 100 and massive cover gaps to fight endless walls of 3x141 L.thor/hood/BP or whatever.

And that there's a clearer path to progression for a 2* Player finding more usefulness from a 1 or 2 cover win, than that 3* (but not maxed) player continuing to have a bunch of halfway covered characters. All these loki/doom/whatever characters really don't help them be competitve with the people who were able to fully max out l thor (and probably l. daken).

The only really usable 3*s they've been giving out in reasonable numbers recently is punisher (and maybe lazy cap, though he's of limited use in this current 'blitz and shieldhop' meta)

Unknown

gobstopper wrote:

D3 gets away with all of this nonsense simply because their game carries the Marvel name. Without it the game would have died ages ago and many people would have lost their jobs.

They get away with this **** because whatever they do you all still go ahead and fill their pockets. While maybe complaining and cursing but pay up.

So why would the change actually?

Unknown

scottee wrote:

I don't know if it's been said in this thread, but I think how this came about was obvious.

Many people complained that only top players win the top prizes, making it hard for others to progress. So guess what? They made it so people of all levels can win top prizes.

Be careful what you whine for on an internet forum. Sometimes you get it, and then realize it's not what you wanted. Mainly because you didn't understand the consequences of what you whined for.

But they ignored my suggestion that prizes should be just handed out by random draw, that way everybody would get them without all the hassle with the slanted field, fighting and whatever -- and actually provide the same chances for everyone independent of roster, play time, etc... O,O

Unknown

Impulse wrote:

No, they made it so new players can win top prizes. Established players can still win top prizes if they really care to. It's the level 85ish players who were most likely to be complaining about top players getting prizes that are the most locked out. Somehow I don't think that's getting what they wanted.

Spoit wrote:

(I'd argue that the people with a partial 3* transition are impacted more than the people starting the one from 2*s, since at least the 2* person is still seeing other 2*s in their matchmaking, instead of walls of 141s)

View from the middle...

My roster tops out at 92, though I've got a lot of 92s (I level equally, since I place a priority on PVE, but that isn't the discussion I want to have). I mainly use these 92nd level 3*s, even though I know most of them are technically weaker than my maxed 2*s, because I got tired of fighting with Ares/Thor/Daken/Wolverine/OBW all the time. And they work pretty well.

Prior to a few weeks ago, I could usually get top ten. There were occasional exceptions for the high-demand tourneys, but a typical tournament for me would be 600-750 points, shielded last 8 or 3 hours, top ten. This was usually with the maxed 2*s, though a 3* might sneak in.

Typical tournament now - ~900 points, 20th-30th place. Here's the problem. Climbing is easier - I hit plenty of 35+ point matches usually at least until 500 or so, and plenty of 25+ ones until 700 or so. After about 750, though, there aren't any 25 point ones, and after 800, not many 20 point ones. And literally 90% of teams are featured character/Thor/OBW.

At the same time, I think the 92nd level 3*s, coupled with (usually) a 138th level featured character, seem to scare off most of the retaliations. So I'm fine fighting the 20 point matches, and that gets me up to 900 ok. In theory, I could keep going. The problem I run into, like I said, isn't the retaliations.

The problem is, once I hit about 500 points, I am getting hit constantly for 40 points by people with maxed rosters. 90% of the time I get attacked is like this. Even if I could beat them - and I'll occasionally fight someone with a single 141, but I can't really take a team of them - they're not worth the points, plus of course they'd retaliate. After about 900, they come faster than I can climb, especially since I have to fight two matches for every one I get attacked just to keep pace.

And this is entirely one-sided. I'm not seeing any of these 141 teams at 1100 points that I can attack. Generally, over 800 points, I'm not seeing anything at all over 25 points, winnable or not, even though the equivalent of these teams lower down can see me, and even though I know there's a bunch of teams at that level. I could shield hop, I guess, but it's not worth it just for top 25.

In short, I have no good options. I've been overshielding lately, but that's going to need to stop, because top 25 in not worth spending 225 or more in shields for. I'm not going to be competitive at a meaningful level in PVP, so I'm just disengaging from it. The effect of this isn't to make me want to spend money, it's to make me want to spend my time elsewhere.

Now, I'm sure, someone's going to come along, as someone always does, and angrily say "you think you have a right to win when you blah blah blah" and, of course, the answer is no, I don't. But I would like to have fun with the game, and I'm not. I can accept lowered prizes - I need ISO to level people; covers will come fast enough on their own - but I'd really like PVP not to be a joyless, tedious, frustrating slog. I generally still enjoy PVE, and I have fun with Lightning Rounds, even though I use them as 95% tanking (acknowledging now that it might be pointless). But PVP is just not fun at all anymore. It's rote, and arbirtrary, and more grindy than PVE has been at its worst.

Unknown

So, devs, you throw in a massive stealth change that completely changes PVP and your customers have requested an explanation. Please respond here:

What are the parameters by which people are currently being segregated into PVP brackets?



Thanks.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

I don't know if it's been said in this thread, but I think how this came about was obvious.

Many people complained that only top players win the top prizes, making it hard for others to progress. So guess what? They made it so people of all levels can win top prizes.

Be careful what you whine for on an internet forum. Sometimes you get it, and then realize it's not what you wanted. Mainly because you didn't understand the consequences of what you whined for.

The point, you miss it.

If they're going to make changes to stuff like this, it would be kind of nice if they'd at least say "We're altering how brackets are filled."

They don't have to give us the nuts and bolts, but the courtesy of telling us they're changing things instead of making a stealth change would be nice.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

I don't know if it's been said in this thread, but I think how this came about was obvious.

Many people complained that only top players win the top prizes, making it hard for others to progress. So guess what? They made it so people of all levels can win top prizes.

Be careful what you whine for on an internet forum. Sometimes you get it, and then realize it's not what you wanted. Mainly because you didn't understand the consequences of what you whined for.

Nobody complained that only top players win the top prizes, or that it made it hard for others to progress.

People complained that scaling locking them out of PVE, only offering one 2* cover in rewards, the nerfing of tokens, reductions in HP and ISO rewards, all of THOSE things made it too hard to progress

scottee

Sorry, I forgot I need to explain trains of thought on the internet.

The thinking probably went:

Mid/low level players: "We can't win top prizes! This game is tiny kittied up!"

Devs: "Hmm, let's experiment with bracketing players of similar levels together so players in every tier have a shot at top prizes."
[Groups bottom third players together, mid third, and top third, or some similar formula we haven't figured out yet.]

High level players: "All I see are top players! My 900 points can't even get top 50. This game is tiny kittied up!"
(this includes some max 2* players who thought they're mid-level players, but were over achieving before and are actually in the top third of the player base)

Mid level players: "All I see are top players! I can't beat level 141 players, and I'll never catch up in the rankings to underachieving 3* rosters! This game is tiny kittied up!"

Low level players: "Cool. But I'm not on the forums, so you'll never see my posts of how awesome this is."


I'm not saying it's a good system. I'm just saying, be careful what you ask for.

scottee

gamar wrote:

Nobody complained that only top players win the top prizes, or that it made it hard for others to progress.

People complained that scaling locking them out of PVP, only offering one 2* cover in rewards, the nerfing of tokens, reductions in HP and ISO rewards, all of THOSE things made it too hard to progress

There were certainly people complaining that only top players were winning top prizes. They got down played by many forum members, but the complaints were certainly there.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "scaling" affecting PVP, as scaling usually refers to PVE, unless you're referring to MMR placing winning 2* players against 3* rosters