Changes to PVP bracket creation? Devs please comment

daveomite

aaronschmiz wrote:

daveomite wrote:

yeah...I agree. Got screwed twice though. Had 908 points, unshielded, matched, won 27, reshielded, my score was only 915. I wasn't attacked. Sent in a ticket, got a response in less than 5 minutes from D3, said "server latency" of an attack that never happened.

then happened a second time later. Really quite aggrivating.

Ok, so I am not crazy. I seen that several times. at 585, I played a match worth 20 to get me to 600, but when I won, I came out at 599. It happened to me several times. Yet it never showed that I was attacked and never gave me an option for retal.

I don't think you are. Had never encountered anything like that before today actually. May it just happened to certain people, not sure. Was just definitely odd.

Unknown

daveomite wrote:

SynGen wrote:

daveomite wrote:

Interesting. I'm in 9th place with 970 points. Top 4 are over 1,300, including beezer in 1st, and 5-8 all over 1k. I'm 40 points behind 8th and no nodes over 22 right now.

And I was higher originally, but had come out of a match to -47 from someone with less than 200 points. How they were able to see me, I have no idea. Happened to other people too apparently.

I can't believe no one's really fighting for that #5. Usually there's a big brawl all the down to #10 in brackets like this.

yeah...I agree. Got screwed twice though. Had 908 points, unshielded, matched, won 27, reshielded, my score was only 915. I wasn't attacked. Sent in a ticket, got a response in less than 5 minutes from D3, said "server latency" of an attack that never happened.

then happened a second time later. Really quite aggrivating.

Congrats on hitting 5 (you were in my bracket). Still don't have the roster to compete with these 1k-somethings, but I've experienced this a number of times. Specifically, it seems to happen a lot when you're near a reward checkpoint to make it harder to progress. Happens all the time to me. If I didn't know better, I'd say that the game's set up to **** you points to make you just shy of that reward. Usually it means you need at least another match to make that reward tier, and usually you get hit several times hammering you down so you don't get it. It's generally the difference between smoothly nabbing a reward, and being able to shield, and netting something like a 70 point loss. I sent in a support ticket about this ages back, suggesting they just give you however many reward points you see on your screen for each match (would also eliminate all the storing of retaliations), but obviously we can't have the game giving out free ranking points. lol

Btw, saw you in my sights last night, but recognized the name and hit skip .

Unknown

aaronschmiz wrote:

daveomite wrote:

yeah...I agree. Got screwed twice though. Had 908 points, unshielded, matched, won 27, reshielded, my score was only 915. I wasn't attacked. Sent in a ticket, got a response in less than 5 minutes from D3, said "server latency" of an attack that never happened.

then happened a second time later. Really quite aggrivating.

Ok, so I am not crazy. I seen that several times. at 585, I played a match worth 20 to get me to 600, but when I won, I came out at 599. It happened to me several times. Yet it never showed that I was attacked and never gave me an option for retal.

This is not because of any sort of stealth attack, this is from the amount of points giving being done in real time but the info in your node not updating. basic example is if you see a guy at 1000 points worth 25 points and by the time you hit him he has tanked down to 500 points, you are going to get a lot less points from the win. it works the same way if he jumped up to 1200 points in that time.

Unknown

So in theory, certain unsavory sorts could climb to 1000, whack a bunch of unfamiliar names and then actively tank down before the retaliations roll in. Then a bunch of poor saps would end up retaliating for 0 gain and leaving fat, juicy 50 point nodes for these sick, twisted scavengers to prey upon during the final three hours...

over_clocked

You also have to bear in mind that points are rounded for display. That's why it's important to find the highest points available.

Unknown

Ghast wrote:

So in theory, certain unsavory sorts could climb to 1000, whack a bunch of unfamiliar names and then actively tank down before the retaliations roll in. Then a bunch of poor saps would end up retaliating for 0 gain and leaving fat, juicy 50 point nodes for these sick, twisted scavengers to prey upon during the final three hours...

So it seems there really is a method to Ghast's madness.

Unknown

Yea this is really getting to me now. I'm in the two to three star trans and now since seasons started I can't get to ten anymore which is fine people trying harder and such. I get that. But to starte in a bracket with 120/141 from the start and have to use a health pack every few rounds is just dumb. I wish it would go back to how it was. I was placing top 10 then and few times top 5. But now crazy brackets that 900 is 22 place wow. The Loki event start bam 141 from the start like a slap to the face for me. Ok I'm down with my rant that I'm sure might not make much sense since I'm pretty upset with this game right now

GumisK

I feel the urge to jump on the bandwagon too. Those recent "adjustments" to MMR and bracketing are what is most likely going to make me quit the game soon.

I'm fed up with being punished for making progress, reaching good results, for playing well in general. This is contrary to fun. Moreover, in its current state, the game no longer makes sense. The point of the game has always been to collect more covers, to level them up, to create a roster which is more and more powerful, in order to get better tournament results and to have an advantage over the players, who haven't developed a strong team yet. New players stood no chance against the regulars, and the regulars were whomped by the hardcores - but it was FAIR. I have no freaking idea why the devs thought otherwise. I can't recall ever complaining about too tough opponents when I was in the 1*-2* zone - I just knew that's how games work, and that I needed to clench my fists, fight some more, and eventually I would be up there with the heavyweights, claiming my place. What was wrong with that?

Now it all got mixed up, and I' m confused, to say the least. Why should I even bother with becoming better, with improving my heroes, if it gets me literally nowhere? In PvE, I will get scaled to death, and now in PvP, I end up facing impossible brackets, and with tanking made obsolete, my MMR is heading straight for permanent hell. That is what I'm getting for playing the game well. Anyone calling that fair?

And yet another point, if I may. The game has nothing to offer besides the progression system. Its only goal is to expand and level up. There is nothing more to it. When the player is treated badly for doing what is supposed to be the sole purpose the game, then it's serious design flaw, and the player will leave for another game, and won't ever come back. I mean, seriously, what else is there? The plot? Gimme a break. I know when I face a stupid cRPG that has NPC scaled together with the player's level, I'm pretty pissed, because it gives me no reason to develop my hero, as I will spend the whole game on the same difficulty level, fighting progressively stronger enemies. This is not cool, but I may be tempted to play the game for other reasons: for the plot, the dialogues, to get myself amazed with the graphics or music, or to find out what secrets have been hidden from me. With MPQ, there are no other reasons to play, except one.

This one reason is my alliance. I would have left the game today, without any second thoughts, if it weren't for my brothers in arms, who are a fantastic bunch, and who rely on me. This won't keep me in the game too long, though. Not only my personal results suffer from the new bracketing, but we're also getting affected as a group. They're not dumb, they'll notice too. And they'll get pissed. And they'll leave. Most of them are casuals, or semi-casuals, just like myself. I can't blame them, really.

To sum up, I've been having a great time with the game. I've played since launch, and enjoyed every minute of it. I've participated in the beta, which I haven't done for years. Heck, I've got hooked so much, I even started socializing, which is very rare for me, as I tend to be a lone wolf and focus mainly on single-player gaming. I've set up a team which plays much better than I had expected, and is great to just hang out with, have a chat about the game or just fool around. Now, it's all looking grim. It seems the good times are coming to a screeching halt. I will stay alive and kicking until the end of Season 1, and I'll see where I'm standing then. I'm going to rethink it all over. If I don't see any signs of improvement, this will be the end of the road for me

Unknown

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7201

I think this pretty much explains why we can all disappear tomorrow without the devs noticing. Forget whales. We're swimming with sharks.

Tharos

PVP used to be the only game mode that were not screwed. Now, they broke it for me. I can no longer use it to win some covers.
With my roster (2*, the only nearly usable 3* is a lvl 115 punisher with a sub-optimal build), I can go to about 800 points before hitting the wall of lvl 141 and getting a lot of points loss because of 141 teams attacking me.
From times to times, with a lot of suffering, I went to 900 points, but it happened only two times.

4 events ago, these 800 points were enough to be in top 10 and won two cover most of the time. On difficult brackets, I can at least stay on top 50 to have a 3* cover.
Now, each bracket I join, the top 10 players are above 1100. And with my 800-900 points, I am out of the top 50, or barely inside.
What's the point? The only people who have a chance to won these covers are people with a strong 3* roster already, or people who are not playing enough to be in a "bracket of death". The main "mid range" players are now out of the game.

How I am supposed to have a maxed 3* character one day? No more 3* for sure in LR, no more garanted 3* if one day I want to buy a pack, and now, only one 3* cover in pvp once a week, but luck.

How is it possible to mess up a game to this point in a few weeks?
Sad.

daveomite

Ghast wrote:

http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7201

I think this pretty much explains why we can all disappear tomorrow without the devs noticing. Forget whales. We're swimming with sharks.

Holy....wow...just wow.

NighteyesGrisu

ok, so correct me if I'm wrong: People have been moaning about being punished for successfully playing in PVP for months (hence the need for tanking).

Now to answer that, they drastically lowered the effect of tanking and to balance that put successful players into hyper-competitive brackets to punish them even more? Makes perfect sense, right?

daveomite

theHappyDance wrote:

Congrats on hitting 5 (you were in my bracket). Still don't have the roster to compete with these 1k-somethings, but I've experienced this a number of times. Specifically, it seems to happen a lot when you're near a reward checkpoint to make it harder to progress. Happens all the time to me. If I didn't know better, I'd say that the game's set up to **** you points to make you just shy of that reward. Usually it means you need at least another match to make that reward tier, and usually you get hit several times hammering you down so you don't get it. It's generally the difference between smoothly nabbing a reward, and being able to shield, and netting something like a 70 point loss. I sent in a support ticket about this ages back, suggesting they just give you however many reward points you see on your screen for each match (would also eliminate all the storing of retaliations), but obviously we can't have the game giving out free ranking points. lol

Btw, saw you in my sights last night, but recognized the name and hit skip .

First of all, thank you. Second, technically, I don't have the roster for it either. I just had to be selective with matches and try to stay shielded up. It's gotten harder and harder each new PvP lately though. It gets to be like a meat market after a certain point on your way up.

And yes, I know what you mean about, at times, it can almost feel like the game is almost working against you, as if you were arrested for punching babies or something.

Oh, and thank you, that was nice to skip! Quite unexpected actually. I'll be glad to return the favor anytime.

daveomite

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

ok, so correct me if I'm wrong: People have been moaning about being punished for successfully playing in PVP for months (hence the need for tanking).

Now to answer that, they drastically lowered the effect of tanking and to balance that put successful players into hyper-competitive brackets to punish them even more? Makes perfect sense, right?

it seems to be part of their thought process I guess. "Oh look, those people like to play a lot! And look! They actually buy some shields from time to time! Let's throw them all into the same brackets as they obviously love a challenge!!". Yeah...that sort of mentality, I guess.

NighteyesGrisu

daveomite wrote:

NighteyesGrisu wrote:

ok, so correct me if I'm wrong: People have been moaning about being punished for successfully playing in PVP for months (hence the need for tanking).

Now to answer that, they drastically lowered the effect of tanking and to balance that put successful players into hyper-competitive brackets to punish them even more? Makes perfect sense, right?

it seems to be part of their thought process I guess. "Oh look, those people like to play a lot! And look! They actually buy some shields from time to time! Let's throw them all into the same brackets as they obviously love a challenge!!". Yeah...that sort of mentality, I guess.

it's pretty crazy...I didn't have much time to play this weekend, so I couldn't grind that much..and since most opponents are 141 grinding is harder than it used to be too...in the end managed to go up to 654 points, which a few weeks ago might have even been enough for top 10, and definately enough for top 25.....I ended up 86th...yay

Unknown

However they're doing the new PvP brackets or MMR or whatever, "only seeing 4 guys no matter how much you skip" needs to end YESTERDAY. It's inexcusable.

Unknown

gamar wrote:

However they're doing the new PvP brackets or MMR or whatever, "only seeing 4 guys no matter how much you skip" needs to end YESTERDAY. It's inexcusable.

i noticed this as well in last pvp when we it was about 5 hours before ending, but i think a lot of it had to do with most people at my point lvl or above were shielded. i found waiting for 15-30 minutes would typically open up some others for attack.

Bowgentle

gamar wrote:

However they're doing the new PvP brackets or MMR or whatever, "only seeing 4 guys no matter how much you skip" needs to end YESTERDAY. It's inexcusable.

That used to happen all the time before the points inflation of season play.
It had gotten a lot better with so many people above 1100 all the time, but since Rags was a (comparatively) low scoring tourney again except for the usual crazies, the MMR bubble with the same 5 people made a comeback.

It used to be a sign to shield up and call it a tourney, but with 1100 being almost required for top 10 it's pretty annoying to have to stop before that and shield hop there.

Unknown

Bowgentle wrote:

gamar wrote:

However they're doing the new PvP brackets or MMR or whatever, "only seeing 4 guys no matter how much you skip" needs to end YESTERDAY. It's inexcusable.

That used to happen all the time before the points inflation of season play.
It had gotten a lot better with so many people above 1100 all the time, but since Rags was a (comparatively) low scoring tourney again except for the usual crazies, the MMR bubble with the same 5 people made a comeback.

It used to be a sign to shield up and call it a tourney, but with 1100 being almost required for top 10 it's pretty annoying to have to stop before that and shield hop there.

For me, it never stopped. Yeah, it happened to me all the time before season 1, but it CONTINUED happening during the points inflation. The only saving grace was, like you said, you could shield up for an hour and things had opened up when you came back, so at least you could sort of manage your way through. But for the past two tournaments, that hasn't been working anymore, no matter how long I wait I'm still in the pocket. I can't even shield hop anymore because it just brings up the same guys worth 15 points with teams that will take me so long to beat it isn't worth going for it.

Tyronepowers

To add fuel to the fire, I had never won a PVP before but just placed first in the recent RAGS tourney. I shielded near the end and then just played out the last 30 minutes or so just to keep my place. I would win a match and then lose as many points from and attack.

I finished in the top spot with only 767. My roster is 2*s 70-85 level and a bunch of level 20 3*.

I plan to play in the Loki tourney and see if it is any different.