OSCORP HEROIC - MAY 8-14

Unknown

SoloRidge wrote:

I know that I am one of the people complaining but I want to thank you IceIX for sticking in here and vommunicating with us even if it is a message we are not pleased to hear.

agreed. so people, complain all you want but control your rage against IceIX. he is doing a tough job here.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

When would case B ever happen then? Main bracket guy is at 9k points, and if there are no repeatable nodes available right now, that means that most of his points was gained in the sub (say 8k points), which means that the global subbracket leader is currently at 8k points. If you revert the rubberbanding/point values back to how it was before the change, this lets everyone catch up to the 8k point guy in the next refresh for the current subbracket, which means that everyone catches up by the end of the first sub. There must be something I'm completely missing: is rubberbanding now based off of the local subbracket leader or something? Or is it that you can't make up the defecit with 1 full clear of all the repeatable nodes in the subbracket?

Case B is actually the *most* common right now. Users played through the sub, got the higher scores, they're all in one main bracket. Change hit. Users played off the base scores, new brackets were created with those users so their sub brackets are competitive but they're way behind on main. The number of users that hit the correct timing for A to occur is pretty low.

So no matter how far ahead people get in subs you can make it all up in the main bracket then? I find that very hard to believe and in case you don't know about your own game it is literally impossible to overtake someone with a half decent lead on rubber banding if they play as much as you do. Essentially you're saying to place well we have to hope that all those ppl who started the event really early are somehow substantially less active than we are in spite of the fact they seem to be pretty damned active to this point?

Your Case A and Case B don't seem all that realistic and as I posted above what about scaling? If I grind the the nodes to death to catch up to someone who made a single pass to get a massive lead on me then how do you think our scalings going into sub 2 will compare? (I am in case A incidentally). So I have a pretty much impossible task in this sub then a MUCH MUCH harder rest of the event hoping for some mythical main bracket rubber banding that you're implying makes the subs almost irrelevant since it allows such a large catch up assuming I can even do the nodes with a limited roster and having to scale myself to hell grinding nodes.....

Doing nothing is literally no kind of solution.

Nemek

NorthernPolarity wrote:

IceIX wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

When would case B ever happen then? Main bracket guy is at 9k points, and if there are no repeatable nodes available right now, that means that most of his points was gained in the sub (say 8k points), which means that the global subbracket leader is currently at 8k points. If you revert the rubberbanding/point values back to how it was before the change, this lets everyone catch up to the 8k point guy in the next refresh for the current subbracket, which means that everyone catches up by the end of the first sub. There must be something I'm completely missing: is rubberbanding now based off of the local subbracket leader or something? Or is it that you can't make up the defecit with 1 full clear of all the repeatable nodes in the subbracket?

Case B is actually the *most* common right now. Users played through the sub, got the higher scores, they're all in one main bracket. Change hit. Users played off the base scores, new brackets were created with those users so their sub brackets are competitive but they're way behind on main. The number of users that hit the correct timing for A to occur is pretty low.

This means you guys changed the rubberbanding to be based off of your current subbracket leader, and not the global subbracket leader then?

His comments do support that theory...

Unknown

laoahpeh wrote:

SoloRidge wrote:

I know that I am one of the people complaining but I want to thank you IceIX for sticking in here and vommunicating with us even if it is a message we are not pleased to hear.

agreed. so people, complain all you want but control your rage against IceIX. he is doing a tough job here.

And he is a total stud for doing it.

Almost as studly as this guy...

IceIX

NorthernPolarity wrote:

IceIX wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

When would case B ever happen then? Main bracket guy is at 9k points, and if there are no repeatable nodes available right now, that means that most of his points was gained in the sub (say 8k points), which means that the global subbracket leader is currently at 8k points. If you revert the rubberbanding/point values back to how it was before the change, this lets everyone catch up to the 8k point guy in the next refresh for the current subbracket, which means that everyone catches up by the end of the first sub. There must be something I'm completely missing: is rubberbanding now based off of the local subbracket leader or something? Or is it that you can't make up the defecit with 1 full clear of all the repeatable nodes in the subbracket?

Case B is actually the *most* common right now. Users played through the sub, got the higher scores, they're all in one main bracket. Change hit. Users played off the base scores, new brackets were created with those users so their sub brackets are competitive but they're way behind on main. The number of users that hit the correct timing for A to occur is pretty low.

This means you guys changed the rubberbanding to be based off of your current subbracket leader, and not the global subbracket leader then?

No, but I see why you'd say that, re-reading it. Sorry, I wasn't being clear enough. Rubber banding for sub events isn't a pure 100% relation to the sub bracket overall leader. If it was you could somewhat easily run into a situation where a new bracket was created when the high score was 1000 but the bracket went unfilled and not pushed efficiently, then a new user joins the bracket and slingshots to 2500 because that bracket was "weak". To prevent this, each sub has somewhat muted relations to the overall sub bracket leader. That's why you wouldn't see the 2500/3000 player being able to gain 6500 points to reach the same as the main bracket leader.

Unknown

Another issue for me is my sub bracket leader is only at 6k. Main bracket leader is 10k. Rubber banding in my sub will not solve that gap

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Case studies to keep in mind:

User has 2500 points. Main bracket leader is at 9000, sub bracket leader is at 3000.
Result - User doesn't need rubber banding for sub bracket and the sub bracket will thus offer no real points. *However*, unlike Sim Challenge, this Event has pins in the main chapter which would be subject to points gains compared to the leader who would not gain these. The user would be able to largely if not totally catch up here as a result depending on the leader's play schedule.

(Emphasis added.)

One more point to highlight here. Even in your explanation, you admit that the user would not "totally" be able to catch up with the leader (or by extension, anyone close the leader). Only the top 20 of 1000 get both covers. You are asking us to play an event for a major, new, limited availability, much anticipated character, and saying, "well, you'll MOSTLY be able to catch up, so it's okay!" How is that good policy?

You haven't stated my case yet, either, though others here have posted similar points.

c) User has 1000 points. Main bracket leader is at 10,000, user has not yet joined a sub bracket (but leader will have low points based on new pin values).
Result - kiss your chances at a shiny new character good-bye.

Spoit

IceIX wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

IceIX wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

When would case B ever happen then? Main bracket guy is at 9k points, and if there are no repeatable nodes available right now, that means that most of his points was gained in the sub (say 8k points), which means that the global subbracket leader is currently at 8k points. If you revert the rubberbanding/point values back to how it was before the change, this lets everyone catch up to the 8k point guy in the next refresh for the current subbracket, which means that everyone catches up by the end of the first sub. There must be something I'm completely missing: is rubberbanding now based off of the local subbracket leader or something? Or is it that you can't make up the defecit with 1 full clear of all the repeatable nodes in the subbracket?

Case B is actually the *most* common right now. Users played through the sub, got the higher scores, they're all in one main bracket. Change hit. Users played off the base scores, new brackets were created with those users so their sub brackets are competitive but they're way behind on main. The number of users that hit the correct timing for A to occur is pretty low.

This means you guys changed the rubberbanding to be based off of your current subbracket leader, and not the global subbracket leader then?

No, but I see why you'd say that, re-reading it. Sorry, I wasn't being clear enough. Rubber banding for sub events isn't a pure 100% relation to the sub bracket overall leader. If it was you could somewhat easily run into a situation where a new bracket was created when the high score was 1000 but the bracket went unfilled and not pushed efficiently, then a new user joins the bracket and slingshots to 2500 because that bracket was "weak". To prevent this, each sub has somewhat muted relations to the overall sub bracket leader. That's why you wouldn't see the 2500/3000 player being able to gain 6500 points to reach the same as the main bracket leader.

In that case, aren't all the alliances which have people who didn't jump in immediately at a huuuge disadvantage for that highly contested top 100 cover?

daveomite

Chimaera wrote:

Can I get an official comment on why no more first time completion bonuses then IceIX? Don't think I saw one yet.

I'd like to know this too.

Also why in subs, you cannot see alliance totals. Only player totals.


As far as the main topic, I have 3,393 points from the clear I did of all nodes just after it started (noted in detail earlier in this thread.)

My main bracket leader: 8,654 points.

my sub bracket leader: 7,360 points

I may have more points as I did a clear before the change, however, considering the change, I am simply not seeing a way to catch up to either leader given the low node/pin values.

I feel bad for anyone who didn't clear the nodes before the change, but even though I did, I'm still out of reach apparently. I'm just not convinced rubberbanding can actually balance this back out.

Thanos

pandaberry6 wrote:

laoahpeh wrote:

SoloRidge wrote:

I know that I am one of the people complaining but I want to thank you IceIX for sticking in here and vommunicating with us even if it is a message we are not pleased to hear.

agreed. so people, complain all you want but control your rage against IceIX. he is doing a tough job here.

And he is a total stud for doing it.

Almost as studly as this guy...

As usual the drama on the forums is providing more entertainment than the actual event. Also, someone please get Pandaberry into a long cold shower before she has a meltdown. I never knew mohawks were so sexy, although, i'm sure its the claws that are really doing it for her.

Unknown

Leader in my main has 9000. I have 7000. Rampage gives me 176. I can't grind enough missions to get anywhere close to the main leader. Or I could try and enter scaling hell. This is an epic fail.

Spoit

But yes, tank you for coming in and taking all this heat (without the healing) IceIX. Having communication is always better

nyark

OK, well I will give you my case again, I'm 8000 pts back of my main bracket leader and I haven't played any sub-event nodes yet because I'm waiting to see what you're going to do about it. I also did not play the Rocket Men node on the main and I see that's only 277 points right now. You're sure rubberbanding will let me catch up after this?

Droc76

One thing is for sure. We will probably do this event a second time because of the botch. Lazy Daken for everybody yay! Problem solved!

IceIX

wathombe wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Case studies to keep in mind:

User has 2500 points. Main bracket leader is at 9000, sub bracket leader is at 3000.
Result - User doesn't need rubber banding for sub bracket and the sub bracket will thus offer no real points. *However*, unlike Sim Challenge, this Event has pins in the main chapter which would be subject to points gains compared to the leader who would not gain these. The user would be able to largely if not totally catch up here as a result depending on the leader's play schedule.

(Emphasis added.)

One more point to highlight here. Even in your explanation, you admit that the user would not "totally" be able to catch up with the leader (or by extension, anyone close the leader). Only the top 20 of 1000 get both covers. You are asking us to play an event for a major, new, limited availability, much anticipated character, and saying, "well, you'll MOSTLY be able to catch up, so it's okay!" How is that good policy?

You haven't stated my case yet, either, though others here have posted similar points.

c) User has 1000 points. Main bracket leader is at 10,000, user has not yet joined a sub bracket (but leader will have low points based on new pin values).
Result - kiss your chances at a shiny new character good-bye.

I say if not totally because you can't account for the play patterns of the leader. If you clear every pin once but the leader clears them 5 times, you will not catch up.

User C is User B in different clothes. You'll be competitive in the sub and in theory be able to catch up on mains with the repeatables available there.

Unknown

Droc76 wrote:

One thing is for sure. We will probably do this event a second time because of the botch. Lazy Daken for everybody yay! Problem solved!

i sure hope not two heroics back to back count me out that sounds way to brutal

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

In that case, aren't all the alliances which have people who didn't jump in immediately at a huuuge disadvantage for that highly contested top 100 cover?

I did try to raise that issue. Apparently they're going to spend a couple more hours trying to figure out whether individual players can compete, and then finally realize that alliances are hosed, at which point they'll say "oh it's too late to restart now."

It's now 2.5 hours since they messed everything up trying to fix it. Every second makes the situation worse.

Tough job? Undoubtedly. But that's not relevant when what's at issue is whether the job is being done well.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

I say if not totally because you can't account for the play patterns of the leader. If you clear every pin once but the leader clears them 5 times, you will not catch up.

But the leader is at a huge advantage because he doesn't HAVE to clear a node 5 times. The person at an UNFAIR disadvantage DOES have to in order to catch up.

Also, I'm sorry, but I have to say this:
I just don't understand how D3 can change point values DURING a leaderboard event after a substantial number of players had gained points that players thereafter would not be able to gain. It just boggles my mind.

IceIX

daveomite wrote:

Chimaera wrote:

Can I get an official comment on why no more first time completion bonuses then IceIX? Don't think I saw one yet.

I'd like to know this too.

Also why in subs, you cannot see alliance totals. Only player totals.

First time completion bonuses - They were removed to keep overall Iso-8 influx steady, users were on the whole gaining more than desired. As these bonuses tend to be given out to the entire active playerbase, they are applicable to all users and thus served as an outlet for us to change to get Iso-8 gains back in line. There are some design issues that go with that though such as some pins becoming undesirable to play (like the lower right 3 pins in Sim Challenge) due to no particular point gain or reward, so I don't forsee just "They're gone and nothing else changes" being the final say there.

Subs have no Alliance rewards, only Player rewards. So it doesn't need to track Alliance points there.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

wathombe wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Case studies to keep in mind:

User has 2500 points. Main bracket leader is at 9000, sub bracket leader is at 3000.
Result - User doesn't need rubber banding for sub bracket and the sub bracket will thus offer no real points. *However*, unlike Sim Challenge, this Event has pins in the main chapter which would be subject to points gains compared to the leader who would not gain these. The user would be able to largely if not totally catch up here as a result depending on the leader's play schedule.

(Emphasis added.)

One more point to highlight here. Even in your explanation, you admit that the user would not "totally" be able to catch up with the leader (or by extension, anyone close the leader). Only the top 20 of 1000 get both covers. You are asking us to play an event for a major, new, limited availability, much anticipated character, and saying, "well, you'll MOSTLY be able to catch up, so it's okay!" How is that good policy?

You haven't stated my case yet, either, though others here have posted similar points.

c) User has 1000 points. Main bracket leader is at 10,000, user has not yet joined a sub bracket (but leader will have low points based on new pin values).
Result - kiss your chances at a shiny new character good-bye.

I say if not totally because you can't account for the play patterns of the leader. If you clear every pin once but the leader clears them 5 times, you will not catch up.

User C is User B in different clothes. You'll be competitive in the sub and in theory be able to catch up on mains with the repeatables available there.

So does that mean you are turning of the scaling so we can grind like crazy people???