Please Nerf cycling

Navgoose

New players (and newly ranked up players) will always struggle against players with better collections.

Isn't that normal?

I'm newly platinum and envious of the prevalence of masterpiece cards opponents would. I have none. It was extremely rare to see masterpiece below platinum. Just like it's rare seeing mythics below gold.

But new perspectives puts cycling above the majority of rare and many mythic/masterpiece powered decks.

We all get you don't have to cycle. But you also don't have to use Nyx or Omni either if you have them.

FindingHeart8

Navgoose said:

New players (and newly ranked up players) will always struggle against players with better collections.

Isn't that normal?

I'm newly platinum and envious of the prevalence of masterpiece cards opponents would. I have none. It was extremely rare to see masterpiece below platinum. Just like it's rare seeing mythics below gold.

But new perspectives puts cycling above the majority of rare and many mythic/masterpiece powered decks.

We all get you don't have to cycle. But you also don't have to use Nyx or Omni either if you have them.

I'm not sure who you're responding to here, but I'll just jump in as I just had another cup of coffee *woo*

Omni and nyx are cards the AI can use against you in a powerful deck, cycling is not.  That's the big difference for me as I'm completely fine with an imbalance favoring us against the AI (which most players are fine with that too at least to a lesser degree as I'm yet to see a single post on this forums complaining how unfair it is that the AI never gets to go first).

This being said, there are conditions that would get me to change my stance on cycling:

1) The AI is taught to abuse it.  I'm already pro nerfing Omni (but only to stop the 10-minute loop combos, maybe just make the support unfetchable directly from library.  I don't own Omni but to be fair I still want it to be an appealing card to the people who do).

2) If you could purchase the card directly.  This is a combo that still has to be earned.  I am of the belief that some cards of the same rarity are easier to obtain than others.  In the hundreds of Amonkhet packs I've pulled, I've only packed 2 New Perspectives total ever, which is on par with many of the mythics I have.

3) Idunnomaybesomethingelse.  I try to be a reasonable person so if other conditions I'm not thinking of could make it less appealing I'd be open to listening.

A compromise I'd be okay with is making New Perspectives a mythic instead of a rare.  That would make it (theoretically) harder to obtain, (as it would remove it from the random-rare event prizes) though in my experience it is already quite difficult to acquire.  It might be looked at then as just a stronger Harness the Storm.

babar3355

I felt the need to jump in one more time just to make sure we are all agreeing about the concept of nerfing.

Nerfing does not mean deleting all of the cards or even changing the way the mechanic functions. 

Nerfing could be multiplying the cycling cost of most (or all) cycling cards by 2. 

Or simply nerfing some of the biggest offenders like New Perspetives to only give 1-2 mana instead of 3. 

You could still have cycling be a really powerful mechanic without it being so unbelievably dominant.

morgue427

yeah use a wiffle ball bat instead of the Louisville slugger lol. i think up the cost of np while lowering its mana would be the easiest way to restrict cycling without killing it. It would still be used but not just throw any cycling cards in a deck and instant win

ILikePancakes

FindingHeart8 said:

@ZW2007-

 (I've seen a lot of lower tier players rocking top-tier cards)

This is definitely a thing. I kept getting blasted in silver b/c people can deliberately choose to play a limited number of cards so that they don't level up. Annoying, but a valid strategy. Now I'm in gold and it's easier.

I wish there would be tiers based on level of card rarity, such as bronze is only common and uncommon cards, silver with rare and below, gold mythic and below, platinum masterpiece and below or a similar setup.

Kinesia

ILikePancakes said:

FindingHeart8 said:

@ZW2007-

 (I've seen a lot of lower tier players rocking top-tier cards)

This is definitely a thing. I kept getting blasted in silver b/c people can deliberately choose to play a limited number of cards so that they don't level up. Annoying, but a valid strategy. Now I'm in gold and it's easier.

I wish there would be tiers based on level of card rarity, such as bronze is only common and uncommon cards, silver with rare and below, gold mythic and below, platinum masterpiece and below or a similar setup.

Heh. On my alt in bronze I'm at 98 in green.... And green _is_ good enough to level up, but none of my other colours are good enough...

But doing the Trials in Bronze over Christmas was very very interesting... It was mostly the basic 5, a few 2 colour ones though they were very rare and a few Bolas' that people had bought and _those_ were the problem because they'd gotten the 3 colour packs as well and generally were far far better than anyone else.

hawkyh1

ILikePancakes said:

FindingHeart8 said:

@ZW2007-

 (I've seen a lot of lower tier players rocking top-tier cards)

This is definitely a thing. I kept getting blasted in silver b/c people can deliberately choose to play a limited number of cards so that they don't level up. Annoying, but a valid strategy. Now I'm in gold and it's easier.

I wish there would be tiers based on level of card rarity, such as bronze is only common and uncommon cards, silver with rare and below, gold mythic and below, platinum masterpiece and below or a similar setup.

just thinking, that could kill the excitement of pulling a
mythic when you're still bronze or silver. you desperately
need a good card, you draw a good card, but you can't
use it.

HH

wereotter

They could just make it based off how many standard legal cards you own regardless of mastery. 

andrewvanmarle

Please nerf nerfing

ElfNeedsFood

@wereotter I'd rather that if they form a new ranking system it be based on your previous placements, more wins equals higher ranks, and the higher ranked your opponent is that you beat, the more value that win has, sort of like chess rankings.

IM_CARLOS

Cycling is still strong but as long as ai can't abuse this it don't need a nerf anymore think. There are much more cards to need be nerfed before i think. Huf for instance.
I cycle if it the best option for secondaries but greg never use to cycle yet.
At least cycling is an easy win option for newer player because it onlyoneed two or three rare and/or the right pw to work well.

For high-end player or player with high-end collections are more interesting option.

Only problem are so many ties in events like HOD. 

ILikePancakes

hawkyh1 said:

ILikePancakes said:

FindingHeart8 said:

@ZW2007-

 (I've seen a lot of lower tier players rocking top-tier cards)

This is definitely a thing. I kept getting blasted in silver b/c people can deliberately choose to play a limited number of cards so that they don't level up. Annoying, but a valid strategy. Now I'm in gold and it's easier.

I wish there would be tiers based on level of card rarity, such as bronze is only common and uncommon cards, silver with rare and below, gold mythic and below, platinum masterpiece and below or a similar setup.

just thinking, that could kill the excitement of pulling a
mythic when you're still bronze or silver. you desperately
need a good card, you draw a good card, but you can't
use it.

HH

You can choose what level to play rather than the system choosing for you. Say an event is coming up. Choose bronze, silver, gold or platinum and you're locked in for the duration of the event with card limitations. 

Sirchombli

All I can say is I pulled haven waaaaaay before I got perspectives. I was still Swinging with 100 power drakes. That's not OK from a 4 mana rare. And faith is even more ridiculous. It's arguably the most powerful finisher available. It's uncommon. I hate this easy button ****. Boring to play. Super annoying to play against. It's like playing with a cheat code

andrewvanmarle

Sirchombli said:

All I can say is I pulled haven waaaaaayaaay before I got perspectives. I was still Swinging with 100 power drakes. That's not OK from a 4 mana rare. And faith is even more ridiculous. It's arguably the most powerful finisher available. It's uncommon. I hate this easy button tinykitty. Boring to play. Super annoying to play against. It's like playing with a cheat code

Then please play with other cards instead of incessantly complaining... 

Gunmix25

*Points Nerf gun and fires*

**bonk**

"Attention everyone, Cycling has now been nerfed. You're welcome."

Kinesia

Let's discard this conversation about cycling and see what else we can draw to talk about.

ILikePancakes

khurram said:

Sirchombli said:nice

Plus, with how much people want certain masterpieces nerfed, asking for more of them in circulation would not help community morale. I'd love to be able to chase masterpieces. I'm also not one of the myriad of people crying about them being op. Be careful what you wish for. 

Not certain masterpieces... Just the one. And let's be honest, 90+% of people posting to get Omniscience nerfed don't have it and aside from their exaggerated claims that it's making them quit 9 out of 10 games every day, the real reason is that they don't like the idea of potentially losing to a deck they can't  make for themselves. Not really because it's broken and they want the game to be "balanced".

PS: a little off topic rant. Sorry. I blame the delay in release of Ixalan. 

Any card or combo that does not allow the player to interact at all with the ai is broken and needs balanced. Still waiting for anyone to give a sensible explanation as to why the ai going into a 10 minute loop with zero way for the human to counter is acceptable. I don't want to waste my time watching what essentially amounts to a video. There's YouTube for that. Games are supposed to be interactive.

khurram

ILikePancakes said:

khurram said:

Sirchombli said:nice

Plus, with how much people want certain masterpieces nerfed, asking for more of them in circulation would not help community morale. I'd love to be able to chase masterpieces. I'm also not one of the myriad of people crying about them being op. Be careful what you wish for. 

Not certain masterpieces... Just the one. And let's be honest, 90+% of people posting to get Omniscience nerfed don't have it and aside from their exaggerated claims that it's making them quit 9 out of 10 games every day, the real reason is that they don't like the idea of potentially losing to a deck they can't  make for themselves. Not really because it's broken and they want the game to be "balanced".

PS: a little off topic rant. Sorry. I blame the delay in release of Ixalan. 

Any card or combo that does not allow the player to interact at all with the ai is broken and needs balanced. Still waiting for anyone to give a sensible explanation as to why the ai going into a 10 minute loop with zero way for the human to counter is acceptable. I don't want to waste my time watching what essentially amounts to a video. There's YouTube for that. Games are supposed to be interactive.

And there's nothing more interactive than cycling, right?  It allows the players to interact and interact and interact..... and then interact some more. Very healthy for the game. More please.

I don't know if you are pro-cycling or not but Its the same argument all over again. No one is saying Omniscience is not OP and doesn't need to be reworked. Sure, it does. But It's the hypocrisy of some players that's laughable, when one broken thing is dubbed very fair and the other broken thing is a disaster for the game.

And 10 minutes loops due to Omni, people claiming to quit matches every day due to this? Please there is a fair amount of exaggeration going on or we are not playing the same game.

And if it's because people are newer and might be having a different experience than me while facing Omniscience than it may not be just that one card or deck type that's giving them trouble. They still have ways to go.

Krishna

khurram said:

ILikePancakes said:

khurram said:

Sirchombli said:nice

Plus, with how much people want certain masterpieces nerfed, asking for more of them in circulation would not help community morale. I'd love to be able to chase masterpieces. I'm also not one of the myriad of people crying about them being op. Be careful what you wish for. 

Not certain masterpieces... Just the one. And let's be honest, 90+% of people posting to get Omniscience nerfed don't have it and aside from their exaggerated claims that it's making them quit 9 out of 10 games every day, the real reason is that they don't like the idea of potentially losing to a deck they can't  make for themselves. Not really because it's broken and they want the game to be "balanced".

PS: a little off topic rant. Sorry. I blame the delay in release of Ixalan. 

Any card or combo that does not allow the player to interact at all with the ai is broken and needs balanced. Still waiting for anyone to give a sensible explanation as to why the ai going into a 10 minute loop with zero way for the human to counter is acceptable. I don't want to waste my time watching what essentially amounts to a video. There's YouTube for that. Games are supposed to be interactive.

And there's nothing more interactive than cycling, right?  It allows the players to interact and interact and interact..... and then interact some more. Very healthy for the game. More please.

I don't know if you are pro-cycling or not but Its the same argument all over again. No one is saying Omniscience is not OP and doesn't need to be reworked. Sure, it does. But It's the hypocrisy of some players that's laughable, when one broken thing is dubbed very fair and the other broken thing is a disaster for the game.

And 10 minutes loops due to Omni, people claiming to quit matches every day due to this? Please there is a fair amount of exaggeration going on or we are not playing the same game.

And if it's because people are newer and might be having a different experience than me while facing Omniscience than it may not be just that one card or deck type that's giving them trouble. They still have ways to go.

Its hard to go through 8 TotP decks without hitting an Omni or HUF deck. same is also true for 
Cycling. the two outcomes are usually much different

Toodles

I'm in platinum and play every match of every event and even a few extra training grounds when I'm bored and I've seen the HUF-Deploy work for ai maybe twice, and Omni literally once. These issues are overblown.