Please Nerf cycling

Houdin

So.. as it was just brought up in another thread about people wanting to see omniessence nerfed because it breaks the games meta, I thought I would create a forum post about the cards currently in standard that I believe actually are ruining this game.

To be specific the following cards need to be nerfed.
Drake Haven
Faith of the devoted 
New Perspectives 

These three cards create two combo decks that give the player a 99% guaranteed win rate.

That is ridiculous to say the least.
To make it more ridiculous the cards in question are only rare and therefore cheaply craftable. The remainder of the deck requirement is low cost cycling cards if uncommon or common rarity.

At least with omni the card is a masterpiece and not owned by the bulk of the player base.

I truly believe these cards have been a large driving factor in the ridiculous event standings we all complain about.  Where 20 to 30 players end events with perfect scores and a single point loss to a bad rng puts you completely out of the running.

Magic is meant to be a game of constantly evolving decks and strategies. Half the fun is creating new synergies for your opponents to fall prey too.

When the deck state has stayed the same for a year due to an unlossable strategy, it is time to remove these cards from standard play.
It happens all the time in paper Mtg, for this very reason.

Even recently the call to nerf the energy decks and red ramp decks in paper was not because of infinite loops or broken combos but simply because the entire meta had been bent to the point that only those two decks were played 99% of the time competitively. 

Cycling has stagnated the most important aspect of this game, which is deck building strategy. It has ruined competitive play and the ranking system.

It is time to do what is in the best interests of the game, even if their is a player outcry.
The reality is any outcry will only come from those looking for a thoughtless easy win button.

D3/Oktagon I implore you. Please fix cycling. I don't think it will be fun to have to remain in this meta for another year waiting for cycling to move out of standard play.

Sincerely
Houdin  

deletedgone

+1

A nerf to New Perspectives would be close to enough by itself.

Gunmix25

Why, Drakes and Faith of the devoted? New perspectives is the card that needs Nerfing. Without NP, Drakes and Faith are perfectly fine.

I did think Drakes needed Nerfing at first but it is dependent on NP for the easy win. Without it, not so much. Try making a build with Drakes or Faith but without NP in TG. You will see what I mean

hawkyh1

shefet monitor is also an op cycle card.

HH

Houdin

I still say all of them.
Even without NP even a three mana match either gives you a 12/12 drake or 15 damage to your opponent and 15 life for yourself.

andrewvanmarle

And then Ixalan is launched and everyone plays a new flavour of the month and the same group will cry nerf all over again.... 

Bil

   I also agree on the fact that cycling is an overpowered mechanic thanks to those 3 cards. I'm not sure those supports have brought anything interesting to the game neither. 
  On the other hand, I don't really care if players can win easily... I'm even happy for them... As long as I'm able to play my deck and Greg doesn't abuse of the mechanic.

Houdin

Magic is supposed to he a game of strategy, not a game of play the same three cards every game

Irishme

From someone who doesn’t have Np, just having DH it’s still not an easy win or even guaranteed.  But it could be less honestly.  Maybe a 1/1 drake each time.  

Matthew

andrewvanmarle said:

And then Ixalan is launched and everyone plays a new flavour of the month and the same group will cry nerf all over again.... 

Do you seriously think people will stop using Cycling decks just because there's a new set of cards introduced?

Given what Oktagon has done for the game so far, I am cautiously optimistic that they won't be introducing a mechanic as broken as Cycling has proven to be. And if that does turn out to be the case, we will continue to see people abuse Cycling as a way to win games. I'm not pointing fingers, by the way. I use it more often than not, for the simple fact that it makes winning a match with full points much more likely. But I still think it should be nerfed. The leaderboard right now for my Platinum bracket in this iteration Hour of Devastation is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Top 10 placements are all at perfect scores right now, and I'm sure there are several more below that tenth place. I'd be willing to bet that a not insignificant number of those players are taking advantage of the Cycling mechanic to achieve those scores.

MTG_Mage

Ya I agree and also mentioned this over 6 months ago
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/700410#Comment_700410
simple solution is that those supports lose a shield each time they are triggered.

wereotter

The easiest fix to cycling is to just make it work the same as in paper magic.

New Perspectives: This is close currently. The paper version makes cycling free if you have a full hand, whereas this just gives cards with cycling mana. In a handful of cases the mana the cards gain isn't enough to cycle them, but that's rarely an issue for most players. So just make it reduce cycling costs if you have enough cards in hand.

Faith of the Devoted and Drake Haven: These cards need to be adjusted as they're the two that people use alongside of free cycling. Their paper versions require you to pay mana to get the benefit in addition to cycling the cards. So if they drain you of mana when you cycle to get the effect, then that would work. And, if you don't have the mana to pay you don't get the effects, then that would be fair.

A skilled deck builder could still work with this but it would slow it down dramatically.

klobberer

I don't have New Perspectives. Drake Haven + Curator of Mysteries + Shefet Monitor works just fine. Cycling doesn't need to be nerfed, the AI doesn't know how to cycle a card 

julianus

I really believe the experience in this game is about the player vs the computer, not really player vs player, so I feel cards that mar the player's experience are worse for the game than cards that help a player win.

That said, New Perspectives is ridiculously powerful. I don't agree that cycling is solely responsible for so many perfect scores (cycling can't always help get secondary objectives), but it's probably a contributing factor and i wouldn't be opposed to a change. In the context of an overall balance review. Certainly not as a standalone adjustment. It's important for for there to be strong strategies that are readily accessible to a large number of players, rather than being restricted to a small number of mythic (or better cards).

Theros

when cycling was released,  it was the only viable way to beat the last 3 bosses for a pve event I can't  recall. even today it is the only viable/safe way for many players against pve bosses, especially for new players. A nerf may be detrimental to those players.
I used to be in favor  of cycling. As my collection got better, cycling got too slow and boring for my taste. I haven't used cycling for quite a while.
As far as pvp, I'm not sure if cycling is reponsible for most perfect scores and ties.
It would be helpful for coalition leaders who interact with new players to give their opinion.

Gideon

You can choose not to cycle. The AI does.

Furordraco

Cycling would need Nerf only if Greg could use it how we do. Apart from that it's a for sure win mechanic which get extremely boring after a while. If you have to Nerf than Nerf NP to like draw 1 instead of 3. Or give 2 Mana instead of 3. Other then that Drake and faith are perfectly fine as by themselves they're quite useless.
Also honestly against stupid Omni loop decks and nyx decks out there or full mythic masterpiece decks cycle is the only win conditions for players who dont have 1300 or more cards

Drewster

I had 0 fun mastering Solemnity. No, I did not make a troll deck... I just grinded with it in my deck. I do think that cycling is fine as long as the opponent AI is finally programmed to be able to use it randomly at least. Also several AI dumb moves other than no cycling should be remedied and at least target randomized. So I disagree and say thumbs up for cycling with a better AI.

bk1234

MADAFAKA said:

when cycling was released,  it was the only viable way to beat the last 3 bosses for a pve event I can't  recall. even today it is the only viable/safe way for many players against pve bosses, especially for new players. 

That’s not true. I never jumped on the cycling bandwagon and had no problem with the third node of ToZ. 

Also since the viable cycling cards are from AKH, it isn’t the go-to for newer players anymore. They have to actually strategically overcome events and objectives. 

Waschecht

If there are unlimited freedev capacities then yeah please adjust the cards. But there are not, so Octagon should continue focusing on general higher priority features and new Sets.
In addition playing a Cycling deck is no fun at all. Yes, it gets the job done, but eventually your whole game experience gets dull. So I would leave it up to the players if they want to have an edgy exciting game experience, or not.

bk1234

Waschecht said:

If there are unlimited freedev capacities then yeah please adjust the cards. But there are not, so Octagon should continue focusing on general higher priority features and new Sets.
In addition playing a Cycling deck is no fun at all. Yes, it gets the job done, but eventually your whole game experience gets dull. So I would leave it up to the players if they want to have an edgy exciting game experience, or not.

This is a valid point, in fact most of the players I know who quit in the past few months were cycling players. 

There are many more who are still having fun despite the stale content by building new decks every week.