Updates to S.H.I.E.L.D. Training (10/17/17)

ursopro

@aesthetocyst, the devs could use some of your help in PvP changes thread

jamesh

Bloody Marvel said:

Maybe I'm missing something here, but aren't the final nodes in the horizontals the only nodes with required characters?

If so, doesn't that mean (considering the order Brigby listed them in), that Rogue will be required for the final node on the top row (no restrictions), Invisible Woman for the middle row (lvl 120), and Elektra for the bottom row (lvl 209)?

You're missing something: every mission in the 4x3 matrix has required characters now (note the orange border in the image).  The missions in the first column require Rogue, the missions in the second column require Invisible Woman, the missions in the third column require Elektra, and the missions in the last column require all three.

The minimum level requirements apply to all missions in the bottom two rows now: not just the final column, but only apply to the required character for the node.  So if you don't have a level 120 Rogue, you'll only be able to complete the first mission in the first column.  It sounds like you can complete each column independently, so you could still complete all of the second column if you have a high enough level Invisible Woman.

Compared to the old rules, I think the only case where this will result in more nodes being available to play is if you've got two characters over level 209 and the other unrostered.  Otherwise, it'll be less nodes or the same (if you've got all essentials over 209).  The extra iso probably makes up for this in most cases.

ThePunishers

My question is will Nightcrawler be available in packs where he is the only featured 4* or will D3 make it similar to Rogue and dilute it with other 4* while placing 1 cover in a vault?

As one of your whales I much prefer the prior versus the latter please and thank you  

Could you find out this info for us @Brigby

Vhailorx

aesthetocyst said:

Once again, an additional event, offered above and beyond the usual, is met with derision here.

Just like literally everything else in the game (after the intro), if you can't complete it now, keep playing and building, and your time will come.

At least MPQ offers these avenues. Not all rosterbuilding games in this model do.

That's disingenuous aesth.  People arent deriding the new content.  They are deriding the fact that the new content is hidden behind a paywall that they find too high.

And i dont think you would deny that with these new training events demi has definitely changed the structure in terms of incentivizing fast acquisition and leveling if new releases.  Prior game modes rewarded leveling new releases quickly.  These new events punish NOT acquiring and leveling quickly.  It's a different design philosophy.  Why should players refrain from criticizing it if they don't like it?

Quebbster

Let's see... my Rogue has eight covers and caps out at level 172... So I probably need two more covers to get to level 209. Doesn't sound impossible.

brisashi

Well the increased Iso sounds great

PresidentDoom2020

the problem with Shield Training is that this event is only around for a relatively short amount of time and I think the paywall implementations of this event antagonize most of the playerbase but it's also not a good way to milk whales with the way the other systems in the game work. I said this before during the Rogue debut about the then featured characters and I'll say it again now : even if I was a whale I still couldn't reliably get missing covers because there was no direct way for me to get any. I did manage to get Rogue from Shield Training due to dumb luck by being able to pull another Prof X but even then it's no reliable way to do it thanks to dilution. You could at least have HFH deals for the featured characters (and no, brownnosers, let's not pretend Elektra was planned to have a HFH right now the whole time and it's not just a coincidence, because even if it were it'd be too little). Now if Shield Training lasted the whole season then I'd concede that if I failed by the end that's just me not going hard enough but if you put a gun to my head and other player's heads all it does is frustrate everyone. And as for comparing this to crashes. that's a bad analogy because A : this is a one time event, crashes are cyclical and B : you are never prevented from playing a crash if you have even just one cover. You're unlikely to win but it's not impossible. I mean, hell, one of the first crashes I ever beat was Professor X's and all I had was 1 cover in invisibility and 2 in his yellow.

Like if the Shield Training didn't really have any level limits but you made the missions like truly progressively harder to the point where you couldn't realistically beat them without having beefed up characters yourself that would be a much simpler and better way to do it because I think players would find it much more easy to accept the fact that they're just not tough enough yet than they would just straight up being barred from even trying for arbitrary reasons.

broll

aesthetocyst said:

Bryan Lambert said: ... you can’t “keep playing and keep building” your way to participating in an event that’s deliberately locked out [from] people who don’t shell out for tokens to whale new characters...

My freely earned 9-cover, lvl 188 Rogue says you can. Play and build until you can do well enough in releases in higher SCLs to win more covers. Further, Rogue should be in tokens on Thursday, the day this event drops. If I don't pull one for a few days, I'll spend 120 earned CP and a couple ten thousand earned iso and have me a lvl 209 Rogue. Without spending a virtual nickel.

broll said: ... I don’t care how much I advance in the game it’s extremely unlikely I’ll ever be able to fully Roster a character before they are in packs and available for BH. This is a blatant cash grab. 

Your lack of ability / effort does not define the nature of the event for everyone else LOL 

LOL it has nothing to do with my lack of ability / effort it has everything to do with:

• I'm tinykitty out of PvE placement due to none of the time slots fitting my life.
• I'm not willing to throw tons of HP or collude to place in a badly flawed PvP system.

Even by your own example you say you only got 9.  You'll need 10 for both Nightcrawler and Rouge this time.  So let's assume you get 9 for Nightcrawler again and Rogue alludes you due to RNG.  You're going to drop 240 CP to gain a small amount of CP and an LT?  That's throwing away $50 dollars to gain $5.


It's an even worse plan for those of us that only get 1-6 covers for an event.

The only way this feature makes sense for a non-paying player is if they can get all 10 covers without paying CP or if the rewards were worth enough that dumping CP to get them was a win (a guaranteed or specific 5*, much higher CP, etc)

Now, there is precedent for the devs releasing features that build on each other in reverse order.  If in the pipeline they have improvement to the reward systems that makes covering new releases quickly easier then it might be worth it.  I'm not holding my breath.

smkspy

So much that, one of my first "cover" events was growth industry. Couldn't beat it with my fledgling roster at the time. Didn't it last like a month too? 

But I accepted that my roster wasn't strong enough, but I at least was given the opportunity to compete. The second( and very last) time they ever ran it, tore thru it like wildfire. I earned it.

This junk caters only to the ultra diehards & their egos and then is pay gated to the vast majority of the community. Plus, that "work hard and improve ****" someone is spouting doesn't work here since the event is both so short and changes every time it's run. So next time, the featured characters might be Eddie Venom, Mr fantastic, and nightcrawler.

And this is not the type of thing the game should use to generate sales, especially for a single lousy 4 star cover. 

Rick_OShay

I agree that the level restrictions are too steep.

Although I can't help but to think... if we keep complaining so much, instead of offering constructive criticism - they may just make these Shield Training mini-events go away.
Right now, at least, it's a 'free' shot at some rewards. There's good in that.

It could be much better - less restrictions - to be attainable for a larger portion of the player base.

broll

Rick OShay said:

I agree that the level restrictions are too steep.

Although I can't help but to think... if we keep complaining so much, instead of offering constructive criticism - they may just make these Shield Training mini-events go away.
Right now, at least, it's a 'free' shot at some rewards. There's good in that.

It could be much better - less restrictions - to be attainable for a larger portion of the player base.

I've put some constructive criticism a few times, but here are some options:

• Have these events run after they roll into tokens, this should drive people to blow hoards and possibly spend IRL money if they didn't get the covers.
• Have the event last longer and have even more nodes with even more granular level resitrictions.  I'd love for this to be a like a PvE version of the PvP simulator that runs an entire season and has triple or more number of nodes (more like System Reboot).
• If they have to stay short highest level restriction should be more like 150 IMO.  Not sure the exact number of required covers that is, but that seems both more attainable and something it's worth spending ISO 
• Leave it as it is allow more options to get the new characters sooner.  You've added PvE SCL9 which gives more options, add SCL9 PVP with simularly easier to attain 4* from placement.  Add a second 4* to progression for both   Make the odds in the solo stores better.  

As I've said before I'm on board with the concept if they move it out of crazytown and into realityville.

PresidentDoom2020

y'know, I kinda miss The Gauntlet. couldn't you make Shield Training more like The Gauntlet?

Vhailorx

aesthetocyst said:

Rick OShay said:

I agree that the level restrictions are too steep.

Although I can't help but to think... if we keep complaining so much, instead of offering constructive criticism - they may just make these Shield Training mini-events go away.
Right now, at least, it's a 'free' shot at some rewards. There's good in that.

It could be much better - less restrictions - to be attainable for a larger portion of the player base.

They are intentionally very, very restrictive. They start by opening the faucet just a tiny bit, gauge the results, and adjust. If players don't play in the numbers hoped for / expected, they kill it or adjust. If players don't hit the various milestones in the expected %ages, if they are over or under, they'll adjust. If no change occurs, it must be .... our old friend, working as intended.

So what? "Working as intended" is cold comfort to players if the intent is to maximize cash extracted from the playerbase per unit of fun distributed.  

It sucks that game development has become such a zero sum game, but that is basically the price demi/d3 pay for selecting a freemium model.  If they are going to set a real $ price on each transaction then i am going to complain when the price is too high, or they start raising the monetization pressure.

PresidentDoom2020

Vhailorx said:

aesthetocyst said:

Rick OShay said:

I agree that the level restrictions are too steep.

Although I can't help but to think... if we keep complaining so much, instead of offering constructive criticism - they may just make these Shield Training mini-events go away.
Right now, at least, it's a 'free' shot at some rewards. There's good in that.

It could be much better - less restrictions - to be attainable for a larger portion of the player base.

They are intentionally very, very restrictive. They start by opening the faucet just a tiny bit, gauge the results, and adjust. If players don't play in the numbers hoped for / expected, they kill it or adjust. If players don't hit the various milestones in the expected %ages, if they are over or under, they'll adjust. If no change occurs, it must be .... our old friend, working as intended.

So what? "Working as intended" is cold comfort to players if the intent is to maximize cash extracted from the playerbase per unit of fun distributed.  

It sucks that game development has become such a zero sum game, but that is basically the price demi/d3 pay for selecting a freemium model.  If they are going to set a real $ price on each transaction then i am going to complain when the price is too high, or they start raising the monetization pressure.

the problem is they're bad at using the carrot and stick. they're too reluctant to offer you carrot so you usually just get hit with the stick while they're bewildered that you're not super enthusiastic about the carrot

Orion

aesthetocyst said:

My freely earned 9-cover, lvl 188 Rogue says you can. Play and build until you can do well enough in releases in higher SCLs to win more covers. Further, Rogue should be in tokens on Thursday, the day this event drops. If I don't pull one for a few days, I'll spend 120 earned CP and a couple ten thousand earned iso and have me a lvl 209 Rogue. Without spending a virtual nickel.

Why would you spend 120 CP to add a cover to Rogue so you can earn 1 cover for Nightcrawler?  That seems like a big waste of CP.  The covers for Rogue and Nightcrawler will come eventually.  I'm not too concerned about it.  Heck, my Rogue is only 1/1/3, level 115.  I'm sure not going to spend anything just for a cover I can get through PvE anyway.

PresidentDoom2020

I just think the level gate is too draconian and poorly thought out. For instance, my IW is 5/1/3 so if she had more even color distribution for the same amount of covers (WHICH I DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT MUCH CONTROL OVER) she would be able to go 209 but right now she's stuck at 192 due to the way leveling works. We wouldn't have such a hotly debated thread right now if there was no qualifying criteria to the nodes besides beating the previous one and the actual challenge being the difficult of the battles contained within. I mean look at the SCL9 5* nodes. If that's the kind of fights you throw at the players most wouldn't be able to take it, but they'd probably find it easier to accept that than just being denied a chance to try. But for some troglodyte penny pincher that's not good enough because "OH NO BUT WHAT IF THERE ARE PLAYERS WHO ARE TECHNICALLY UNDERPOWERED BUT WIN BY A COMBINATION OF LUCK, SKILL AND POWERFUL ASSISTS?! THAT'S LIKE.. THEM BEING REWARDED FOR PLAYING WELL.. WHO CARES ABOUT POSITIVE FEELINGS, I WANT MY RUBLES! NYAGH!"

Bryan Lambert

aesthetocyst said:

Bryan Lambert said:

And my freely earned three Rogue covers don’t represent one third of the effort you put in. More like 90% of the effort. How many of those nine came through placement? 

5 of the 9 were from individual and alliance placement.

90%? Heh. Keep telling yourself that, and you'll keep coming up short. "I played just as hard but the system is against me!" Yeah, right.

Higher placement represents more effort, and more effectual effort, in the event itself, as well as more effort accumulated over time.

Again, keep playing, keep building, you'll get there, too.

Ayn Rand called. She wants... everything back.

I’m well aware of the effort difference between top 30 PVE placement (where I usually end up) and top 10/5/1. I’m also familiar with what’s required for high level PVP and alliance placement (only some of which qualifies as “effort”. I’m familiar with the game and how it works. I stand by 90%. You’re not that special, kid.

Also, you’re so far up your own entitlement argument you’re not reading what I wrote. That SHIELD Training as it is currently designed amnd implementied is not and cannot be a “keep building and you get there” situation. Whether it SHOULD be or not is not an argument I’m making. 

They can keep SHIELD Training exactly the way it is until the cows come home, for all I care, but you’re wildly micharacterising what it is and how it works in order to yell at people on the Internet for not working as hard as you on a phone game. So, you know. Life choices and all that. 

DarthDeVo

 I've got enough covers on Sue, and will be cracking my hoard early next week (as soon as Gambit enters Latest), so there's a chance I could get 5 more covers for my 1/2/2 Rogue. 

But much like my 2/2/1 Professor X, RNGesus hasn't been kind to my 3/2/2 Elektra. I think three of those covers came through Daily Resupply and two have been champ rewards from 3* Daredevil. That means I've pulled two. 

I could set her as my sole BH and hope for three more covers while pulling my hoard, but I was intending to get more progress on my 2/4/1 Teen Jean and 1/4/1 Kate Bishop. I suppose I'll have a choice to make. 

EDIT: I should add I like the idea of this in concept, but the execution is still off. Level requirements are too steep, especially for a brand new character. If we get to next season and they're still offering this, except with a Level 209 Nightcrawler required for certain missions, then we'll know for sure just who this is aimed at, and it ain't 99 percent of the player base. 

PresidentDoom2020

Bryan Lambert said:

aesthetocyst said:

Bryan Lambert said:

And my freely earned three Rogue covers don’t represent one third of the effort you put in. More like 90% of the effort. How many of those nine came through placement? 

5 of the 9 were from individual and alliance placement.

90%? Heh. Keep telling yourself that, and you'll keep coming up short. "I played just as hard but the system is against me!" Yeah, right.

Higher placement represents more effort, and more effectual effort, in the event itself, as well as more effort accumulated over time.

Again, keep playing, keep building, you'll get there, too.

Ayn Rand called. She wants... everything back.

I’m well aware of the effort difference between top 30 PVE placement (where I usually end up) and top 10/5/1. I’m also familiar with what’s required for high level PVP and alliance placement (only some of which qualifies as “effort”. I’m familiar with the game and how it works. I stand by 90%. You’re not that special, kid.

Also, you’re so far up your own entitlement argument you’re not reading what I wrote. That SHIELD Training as it is currently designed amnd implementied is not and cannot be a “keep building and you get there” situation. Whether it SHOULD be or not is not an argument I’m making. 

They can keep SHIELD Training exactly the way it is until the cows come home, for all I care, but you’re wildly micharacterising what it is and how it works in order to yell at people on the Internet for not working as hard as you on a phone game. So, you know. Life choices and all that. 

actually Ayn Rand would probably hate the way things are implemented and liken all the gating to the red tape of the state. the most libertarian thing would be is what I suggested by just making the fights progressively more difficult and actual challenges but not barring anyone from making an attempt

Jomu5

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone,

S.H.I.E.L.D. Training will be returning for the release of Nightcrawler, and with it come a few changes that have been made since the last run of this event.

Structure

• After completing the Join Forces mission, both the top-row missions and the first Individual Training mission are unlocked.
• For the character and Call for Backup missions, completing a mission unlocks the mission directly under it.
• The first row of missions does not have a character level restriction. Required characters have a level restriction of 120 in the second row, and the third row has a level restriction of 209.

Increased the Iso-8 rewarded in the...

• Join Forces! missions to 500 Iso-8 (previously 100 Iso-8)
• Top three character missions to 250 Iso-8 (previously 100 Iso-8)
• Middle three character missions to 500 Iso-8 (previously 250 Iso-8)
• Bottom three character missions to an event token (previously 500 Iso-8)

1. First Required character mission column
2. Second Required character mission column
3. Third Required character mission column
4. Call for Backup mission column
5. Individual Training mission row

What a great ui, in what way does it indicate all the different mission types?

Join forces! missions, is there not just one? Or are the call for back up missions also join forces! missions?