PvP Main Season points shouldn't decrease.

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  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
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    Milk Jugz & Blindman

    thanks both for your feedback and explanation.

    yet i remember in PVP i've been matched with players with 5* champed (happened very little, and when i go high in points like above 650 or 700). but happened to be matched with players have 4* champed.

    Note: i do not have any 5* covers, several 4* char, with 4 covers the highest one.

    i am at day 112, so i guess i am still newbie.

    true 10 CP way better than 3* cover.


    Milk Jugz said    
    I know what 5* discussion you're referring to and you are taking it out of context.
    yeah i guess this my last comment was out of context.
    how can i get the 4* covers if i don't spend legendary tokens and spend CP, (true from PVE story, maybe the monthly event, and the luck of some other draw like heroic one), but these are really very slow, compare to the legendary token and CP, so there is a chance of getting 5* covers, and i should not sell them just to stay in the current scale, as mentioned before the lowest level of 5* char is 255, which my highest char level now is about 174.

    so i need you help here about explaining something to me, if i got 5* covers and do not upgrade them. will this effect my PVP matching or not? (i know it will effect the PVE).
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
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    @Lucifier

    I've rostered every 5* cover I've gotten and until I started champing 4* put iso into them each time. The result is even though I have 34 champ 4s with the highest at 294, my top 8 characters are all undercovered 5*. Top 3 being Phoenix @ 420 3/3/5, IM46 @ 375 5/5/1, and Cap @ 360 0/4/3. It made my Versus experience miserable when I had a 3* roster. Now that my roster strength has caught up every aspect of the game is more enjoyable. My advice to you is roster them but don't put iso into them, yet. You might see your enemy curve jump a little bit but the rest of your roster will catch up.

    The real question is when to start pulling. How many champ 3s do you have? Do you have the HP to roster a large number of new characters that pulling a hoard will bring you? If I could do it again from the beginning I would probably wait to pull LT and CP until I had at least half the 3* champed and had enough HP to add about 30 roster spots. Keep plugging away at what you can accomplish the rewards WILL get better as you progress.

    This should be my first season of 900+ in every Versus event and is my 5th or 6th 10K season. I have been playing for nearly 2 years. I'm around day 680ish.

    Happy hoarding!! (It sucks, I know, I hate it with a passion. But, it's the best way to progress without stifling your ability to play)

    EDIT: As to your question on queuing champ 5* teams. I don't know why, no one can really explain. Sometimes the match making system faults, I guess. It works well for the most part, but not always. Just skip them for now. When I cross the 900 mark I start queuing teams I can't beat. I imagine it's the same for you at a lower threshold.
  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 585 Critical Contributor
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    Lucifier
    so i need you help here about explaining something to me, if i got 5* covers and do not upgrade them. will this effect my PVP matching or not? (i know it will effect the PVE).
    It will change your MMR in PvP only if you don't have a solid base of champed 3* characters. Whatever you do don't level them up though, I see it so often but it's a huge mistake and one of the reasons a lot of ppl don't like PvP. 

    It will not not affect your PvE scaling, the monstrosity that was roster-based PvE scaling was removed recently.
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
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    Milk Jugz & Blindman

    ohhhhhhhhhhh, wait wait, i think this is great news:

    ok, i have no problem with HP, well for at least 20 more rosters, i guess (i can purchase 20k HP now) and i have 4 or maybe 6 full champed 2* char, could be 8 by end of this week (so this is another 1k HP, and 520k iso).

    need your helps with these:

    1- for example at roster 100 or something close, how much one new roster space cost?
    2- well my highest char is 3* char i think level 174, if i pull 5* that would be level 255, are you sure it will not effect the PVE scaling?? i am currently playing at SCL 7, now i am at shiled rank 46, once i hit 47 i will try the SCL 8, or should i not try it?
    3- i think i have now 7 or 8 champed 3*, 10 LT 670 CP.
    4- another reason why i want to spend LT and CP, so i can have as much 4* char as possible for the daily deadpoll, for the before last one fight and for the last rewards, which is vault token (everyday).
    5- i have all 3* char except one (i think i still don't have the hood).

    based on these info i really appreciated your advice.


  • Kahmon
    Kahmon Posts: 625 Critical Contributor
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    Why not remove progression rewards from Versus entirely. Leave it for those who want to slug it out for a high placement.

    Does this sound bad to you because you think putting in effort should be rewarded as you go? Yeah me too.

    Progression shows X rewards for Y effort (points). The worst part of PvP is getting beaten back from a reward right before you reach it. My suggestion on a previous thread which got 0 feedback (good or bad) is to separate current points from progression points. Current points is the current system we have now and should be kept for placement and progression points would only be the fights you choose and not be affected by people beating up on you.

    People who play most efficiently and game the system will still be able to breeze through the same way, but lower, slower, less developed rosters will be able to reach rewards they couldn't before via more work.

    Most importantly, that terrible feeling being attacked for a ton during what should be a rewarding fight will be gone. I know this is what I hate most about PvP and imagine many others feel the same.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Lucifier said:
    Milk Jugz & Blindman

    ohhhhhhhhhhh, wait wait, i think this is great news:

    ok, i have no problem with HP, well for at least 20 more rosters, i guess (i can purchase 20k HP now) and i have 4 or maybe 6 full champed 2* char, could be 8 by end of this week (so this is another 1k HP, and 520k iso).

    need your helps with these:

    1- for example at roster 100 or something close, how much one new roster space cost?
    2- well my highest char is 3* char i think level 174, if i pull 5* that would be level 255, are you sure it will not effect the PVE scaling?? i am currently playing at SCL 7, now i am at shiled rank 46, once i hit 47 i will try the SCL 8, or should i not try it?
    3- i think i have now 7 or 8 champed 3*, 10 LT 670 CP.
    4- another reason why i want to spend LT and CP, so i can have as much 4* char as possible for the daily deadpoll, for the before last one fight and for the last rewards, which is vault token (everyday).
    5- i have all 3* char except one (i think i still don't have the hood).

    based on these info i really appreciated your advice.


    I have 144 roster spots, they have cost 1K HP for quite some time. I really don't remember at what number they hit 1K. But, they don't increase once you've hit that number ever, to my knowledge.

    The 5* will definitely NOT affect Story scaling. With the last run of Unstable Iso the developers changed Story scaling to clearance level based, not roster based. And, for all implications, it is a permanent change. So as long as you don't chose a clearance level with enemies harder than your roster can handle you will be fine. For example, in the coming Prodigal Sun story, CL8 enemies are level 35-330, CL7 23-245, CL6 19-220, and down.

    I would hold onto your LT, CP, and HP for a little bit longer before pulling. Wait until you have 22-28 champ 3s. There are 44 total in the game and at 50%+ champed you have a better chance of having multiple characters on the weekly boost list.

    Rostering a 5* will, most likely, have a minimal effect on your Versus scaling if you have the solid base of champ 3s in place. When they are boosted they should be at or near what a base level 5* is, so you are good.

    I understand wanting to be able to play the Behemoth Burrito as many days as possible, but I don't think you're quite at the point where the 2 CP and 1 taco token will make a huge difference yet. I'd guess, based off my experience in the 3* tier, you will be ready around the end of the year.

    Some more questions for you: Have you tracked how much iso you can pull in a day? Do you ALWAYS play Story to full progression? What kind of alliance are you in? There are always Story based alliances looking for players that play everyday and hit full progression. Getting into one is a great way to earn more iso, HP, tokens, and covers. Check out the alliance section of the forums, there are plenty of recruitment posts out there!
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
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    Milk Jugz said:

    Some more questions for you: Have you tracked how much iso you can pull in a day? Do you ALWAYS play Story to full progression? What kind of alliance are you in? There are always Story based alliances looking for players that play everyday and hit full progression. Getting into one is a great way to earn more iso, HP, tokens, and covers. Check out the alliance section of the forums, there are plenty of recruitment posts out there!


    1- i did not tracked how much iso i get per day? but since a week or two, i become vip, and i notice i am getting extra now, but till now i did not face a problem with iso.
    2- yes i play story to full progression and try my best for placement too, always end up in top 50 even if i don't have the 4* char (because i will get it from progression then use it), sometimes end up in top 20.
    3- the current alliance is great, almost everyone of them much better than me (4* champed), but they do not have focus on story or pvp, we usually end up in top 500, or top 250 sometimes, before this alliance i joined top100 alliance (was public) next day they kick me out (i think next day they checked my rosters).


    i have a question, if i have a 3* char with 12 covers, and lets assume i have extra 3 more covers for the same char but can not use (because i already have this color with 5 covers) and these 3 are about to get expired, is it worth it to spent 20 CP to champ this char and use the 3 extra cover on him, or don't spent cp and sell the 3 extra covers?

  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Spend it, if they are expiring. Your basically spending 20 CP to guarantee you are getting the LT for the first champ level. LT= 25 CP, more valuable than the 20 CP you spent on the cover you bought. Plus, you aren't doing anything else with the CP for now. A -20 won't hurt in the long run.

    Definitely check out the alliance sub forum and look for an alliance that is Story focused. Any alliance looking for serious players will not care about what your roster strength is and more about the points you are scoring for them.

    Try to track your iso intake. It's good info to know, you will see it increase as you progress your roster, which is always a good feeling. Plus, it will allow you to have a good handle on how many 14th covers you can have in queue for characters to champ and what kind of time spacing you need between them.,
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
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    ***Please keep the thread on topic of the OP, if you'd like advice please check out the Tips and Guides section of the forum. Thanks!***
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ducky said:
    ***Please keep the thread on topic of the OP, if you'd like advice please check out the Tips and Guides section of the forum. Thanks!***
    Sorry Ducky, I figured you'd be here and was gonna point him to that section. Thanks!!
  • carrion_pigeons
    carrion_pigeons Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
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    Rod5 said:
    carrion pigeons said:
    My personal experience in PvP:

    Enter the event, do the seeds.  Do one more fight against a team of 270s, get super bored, realize I have to do at least 10 more and probably more like 30 more before I get anything worthwhile at it, and quit.

    I expect that's a pretty typical experience among non-LINE players.  PvP sucks.
    I don't think not having Line is your problem. If you can't be bothered to try and fight any teams on a par with yours then you shouldn't expect to get barely any rewards.
    Oh, yes, I have loads of 270s on my roster.  Waitaminnit...
  • aesthetocyst
    aesthetocyst Posts: 538 Critical Contributor
    edited August 2017
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    Kahmon said: ... The worst part of PvP is getting beaten back from a reward right before you reach it ...
    Aw, c'mon, Kahmon! To some players that's the best part of PvP .... beating others down right before they reach a reward! 

    Y'know, actually versus'ing others in "Versus".

    Thinking only of yourself. Tsk, tsk.

    Kahmon said: ...My suggestion on a previous thread which got 0 feedback ...
    .... was an ancient suggestion that's been made many times over. But it's the thought. :)

    Kahmon said: ... People who play most efficiently and game the system ...
    People who play most efficiently are "gaming" the system? That doesn't seem right. And hey ... waiddaminute ... the system is a game! Pretty sure you're supposed to game games. Else why call'em "games".

    Kahmon said: ... that terrible feeling being attacked for a ton during what should be a rewarding fight ...
    That risk is what makes it interesting. The active opposition is what makes it "Versus", as opposed to "Story". If you'd rather some passive entertainment, play the passive side!
    __________________
    carrion pigeons said:....Oh, yes, I have loads of 270s on my roster.  Waitaminnit...
    I am so jealous! I have loads of characters I wish were up to 270. Would you believe I haven't got a single 270? A 267 ... a 271 ... not a single 270.

    Oh ... you were being sarcastic? No 270s there either? Hey, bright side: we could be "no-270s-havin" roster buddies!
  • carrion_pigeons
    carrion_pigeons Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
    edited August 2017
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    __________________
    carrion pigeons said:....Oh, yes, I have loads of 270s on my roster.  Waitaminnit...
    I am so jealous! I have loads of characters I wish were up to 270. Would you believe I haven't got a single 270? A 267 ... a 271 ... not a single 270.

    Oh ... you were being sarcastic? No 270s there either? Hey, bright side: we could be "no-270s-havin" roster buddies!

    I actually have no idea what you're trying to say here, so I'm guessing we're talking past each other.  Let me try to be more plain.

    I am a 3* player thrust into face-offs with champed 4*s, and partially levelled 5*s, neither of which I have any of.  I do not see 3* teams.  I view this as a problem with PvP.

    There are thousands of 3* players I *could* be matched against, but I'm not.  I assume this is because I have a lot of roster slots or some other similar reason.  The fact remains that the upshot is I'm facing teams 60-80 levels higher than anything I can field, and this makes matches take too long to compete for meaningful rewards, in addition to making the game excessively boring.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't really have that problem.  I seem to recall you saying more than once that players don't lose.  Well, I lose maybe one match in four, in PvP, specifically because of bad matchmaking.
  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 585 Critical Contributor
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    carrion pigeons said:

    __________________
    carrion pigeons said:....Oh, yes, I have loads of 270s on my roster.  Waitaminnit...
    I am so jealous! I have loads of characters I wish were up to 270. Would you believe I haven't got a single 270? A 267 ... a 271 ... not a single 270.

    Oh ... you were being sarcastic? No 270s there either? Hey, bright side: we could be "no-270s-havin" roster buddies!

    I actually have no idea what you're trying to say here, so I'm guessing we're talking past each other.  Let me try to be more plain.

    I am a 3* player thrust into face-offs with champed 4*s, and partially levelled 5*s, neither of which I have any of.  I do not see 3* teams.  I view this as a problem with PvP.

    There are thousands of 3* players I *could* be matched against, but I'm not.  I assume this is because I have a lot of roster slots or some other similar reason.  The fact remains that the upshot is I'm facing teams 60-80 levels higher than anything I can field, and this makes matches take too long to compete for meaningful rewards, in addition to making the game excessively boring.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't really have that problem.  I seem to recall you saying more than once that players don't lose.  Well, I lose maybe one match in four, in PvP, specifically because of bad matchmaking.
    So skip more? I get matched with lvl 480 5* teams all the time, doesn't mean I have to fight them.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
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    Rod5 said:
    carrion pigeons said:

    __________________
    carrion pigeons said:....Oh, yes, I have loads of 270s on my roster.  Waitaminnit...
    I am so jealous! I have loads of characters I wish were up to 270. Would you believe I haven't got a single 270? A 267 ... a 271 ... not a single 270.

    Oh ... you were being sarcastic? No 270s there either? Hey, bright side: we could be "no-270s-havin" roster buddies!

    I actually have no idea what you're trying to say here, so I'm guessing we're talking past each other.  Let me try to be more plain.

    I am a 3* player thrust into face-offs with champed 4*s, and partially levelled 5*s, neither of which I have any of.  I do not see 3* teams.  I view this as a problem with PvP.

    There are thousands of 3* players I *could* be matched against, but I'm not.  I assume this is because I have a lot of roster slots or some other similar reason.  The fact remains that the upshot is I'm facing teams 60-80 levels higher than anything I can field, and this makes matches take too long to compete for meaningful rewards, in addition to making the game excessively boring.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't really have that problem.  I seem to recall you saying more than once that players don't lose.  Well, I lose maybe one match in four, in PvP, specifically because of bad matchmaking.
    So skip more? I get matched with lvl 480 5* teams all the time, doesn't mean I have to fight them.
    At some point, i hope that high end players giving tips to 3* transitioners realize that the game is much different then when they came up.  The solutions that work for one player, don't always work for others.  
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,477 Chairperson of the Boards
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    carrion pigeons said:
    The fact remains that the upshot is I'm facing teams 60-80 levels higher than anything I can field, and this makes matches take too long to compete for meaningful rewards, in addition to making the game excessively boring.
    This is true at all tiers of play. Match making's default mode is always to match u against higher opponents. Its your job to figure out how to change the variables to tilt the MMR algorithm in your favor.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
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    aesthetocyst 

    Of course the game has changed. We've all changed with it (or quit). The solutions are the solutions, accept them and benefit from them, or decide the benefit is not worth the cost and reject them. And embrace the costs of doing so.

    Very true.  Which is why i want to keep the issue of the pvp test alive.  I liked the idea and principle of it, but not the execution. They are probably going to change pvp, people need to accept that.

    Hopefully, though, we can convince them that the path to more engagement of developing rosters shouldn't come at the expense of the veteran rosters.  Leave the the cp in progression, and leave the progression tied to points as well as wins.
  • nitefox1337
    nitefox1337 Posts: 80 Match Maker
    edited August 2017
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    GrumpySmurf1002 said:
    This does make a ton of sense, it's a wonder it hasn't been brought up before on here.

    Unless.......
    Oh no. Don't tell me that it's already like that!??

    xD
    acescracked said:
    I thought OP quit the game? And do I only read the bold parts of the post?

    Bursting your bubble here but the OP Never quit the game nor made such announcements. Learn to read.

    "Will be Free to play only and won't do PvP" does not mean "I quit the game".

    PS:

    Since you seem to be following my mpq journey (not carefully enough), here's a thread I opened that you may want to read:

    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/66705/i-didnt-back-down-on-my-word-review-of-a-previous-statement#latest

    Enjoy!

  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Spudgutter said:
    aesthetocyst 

    Of course the game has changed. We've all changed with it (or quit). The solutions are the solutions, accept them and benefit from them, or decide the benefit is not worth the cost and reject them. And embrace the costs of doing so.

    Very true.  Which is why i want to keep the issue of the pvp test alive.  I liked the idea and principle of it, but not the execution. They are probably going to change pvp, people need to accept that.

    Hopefully, though, we can convince them that the path to more engagement of developing rosters shouldn't come at the expense of the veteran rosters.  Leave the the cp in progression, and leave the progression tied to points as well as wins.
    I have to go with spudgutter.  You can't use the example that the game has changed and we need to change with it as an an anti-change argument.  The fact that the devs are testing changes means that there's a 95% chance it's going to change in some way.  Rather then being snarky against anyone suggesting or supporting the changes why don't you post your vision for how this change should go.  What aspects of PvP changing would you be willing to accept and which ones won't you?
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