Qubort said: But just because you like pvp a particular way, why does everyone else have to like it? What aspect of this new format is PVP? It's just a PVE event to 40 wins. They should rename the game to Marvel Grind Quest once this format is rolled out.
But just because you like pvp a particular way, why does everyone else have to like it?
Qubort said: revskip said: Most people who I see having these issues with dropping massive points aren't using shields correctly which is why they hit a giant wall. That nail just got hit on it's head. Too many people who refuse to use shields complain about losing points. Everyone should know roughly where they can float and when they'll have to hop. If someone doesn't know that, they should have no opinion of PVP because they have no concept of how to play it.
revskip said: Most people who I see having these issues with dropping massive points aren't using shields correctly which is why they hit a giant wall.
That nail just got hit on it's head.
Too many people who refuse to use shields complain about losing points. Everyone should know roughly where they can float and when they'll have to hop. If someone doesn't know that, they should have no opinion of PVP because they have no concept of how to play it.
Spudgutter said: Qubort said: revskip said: Most people who I see having these issues with dropping massive points aren't using shields correctly which is why they hit a giant wall. That nail just got hit on it's head. Too many people who refuse to use shields complain about losing points. Everyone should know roughly where they can float and when they'll have to hop. If someone doesn't know that, they should have no opinion of PVP because they have no concept of how to play it. Do you realize that they didn't always have shields? Or time slices? Or many other variations and changes over the years? The game changes, and people change with it. Or do you think people who haven't been around long enough to know that should even have an opinion on that matter?
I do realize that there has been an evolution of the game as I've been playing for years junior.
Shields and slices aren't remotely new and have been around for YEARS.
People that don't know how to utilize shields after years act surprised they don't hit top tier rewards. Gadzooks.
Spudgutter said: Qubort said: But just because you like pvp a particular way, why does everyone else have to like it? What aspect of this new format is PVP? It's just a PVE event to 40 wins. They should rename the game to Marvel Grind Quest once this format is rolled out. Very nice, addressing only part of my post, while selectively editing out the part where i also said 40 wins is too much. Classy. Also, we can talk about how PvP is called "Versus" if you want as well. If people actually read the thread and some of the positive responses, a lot of people talked about the variety of opponents they saw, which is also another departure from the normal versus structure, and another postive aspect to look forward to.
revskip said: DarthDeVo said: Already posted this in the Worst Moment of the Day thread, but felt it would be appropriate here: I. HATE. PVP. Black Vortex, got to 899. Want to guess how many points I lost trying to win one more match? 140. ONE HUNDRED FORTY FREAKING POINTS!!! Old PvP can die in a frigging dumpster fire. I finally gave up after blowing well over 1000 HP on healthpacks and shields and actually being worse off than when I started. This. THIS is why people HATE PvP with a burning passion. Only consolation is the end of vaulting, so maybe I'll have a chance to actually pull X-23's red cover. Probably not, though. Next time shield up when you hit that 899 instead of just getting in that one more match. Do some skipping to find an easier team to beat in that last match. Use a couple of boosts when you are ready to unshield, do your match or even two easy matches and then reshield. Most people who I see having these issues with dropping massive points aren't using shields correctly which is why they hit a giant wall. As you rise closer and closer to 900 you appear in more players' MMR including people who couldn't queue you earlier because your team is too weak relative to theirs. When you cross that Rubicon the only way to not lose tons of points is to use shields optimally. And if for some reason you are just 100% against using shields (say a pure FTP player who also has need for more roster slots) then time your final climb at a time when fewer people are out hitting. Time it with the end grind of a PVE event for instance, or at an off hour when fewer people are playing (I do this a lot at 4am EST when it is too late for the US players and morning commute time for the Western Europeans).
DarthDeVo said: Already posted this in the Worst Moment of the Day thread, but felt it would be appropriate here: I. HATE. PVP. Black Vortex, got to 899. Want to guess how many points I lost trying to win one more match? 140. ONE HUNDRED FORTY FREAKING POINTS!!! Old PvP can die in a frigging dumpster fire. I finally gave up after blowing well over 1000 HP on healthpacks and shields and actually being worse off than when I started. This. THIS is why people HATE PvP with a burning passion. Only consolation is the end of vaulting, so maybe I'll have a chance to actually pull X-23's red cover. Probably not, though.
Qubort said: They also took out 15cp from progression. I don't know why anyone would cheer that move.
Qubort said: Also, 40 wins to get 4star progression equals 22.5 points per win. You have to play waaaay more matches to reach the 4 star cover.
Qubort said: Why bother even calling it pvp?[...]What aspect of this new format is PVP?
Qubort said: Too many people who refuse to use shields complain about losing points. Everyone should know roughly where they can float and when they'll have to hop. If someone doesn't know that, they should have no opinion of PVP because they have no concept of how to play it. .
Too many people who refuse to use shields complain about losing points. Everyone should know roughly where they can float and when they'll have to hop. If someone doesn't know that, they should have no opinion of PVP because they have no concept of how to play it. .
Rod5 said: One point that seems to be misunderstood is around shield hopping and being hit several times during one fight...as soon as you're not shielded, people can see your team and fight your team.The longer you're unshielded, the more people are likely to hit you. If you get hit several times in one fight, it's because you've been out long enough for people to see and hit you. They didn't see and hit you in one fight - they saw you earlier and have taken untill that fight to hit. You learn how long you can stay out at whatever score, and tailor your hops accordingly. If you're in 4* world, at 900 it is not very long in whichever slice.
Spudgutter said: Rod5 said: One point that seems to be misunderstood is around shield hopping and being hit several times during one fight...as soon as you're not shielded, people can see your team and fight your team.The longer you're unshielded, the more people are likely to hit you. If you get hit several times in one fight, it's because you've been out long enough for people to see and hit you. They didn't see and hit you in one fight - they saw you earlier and have taken untill that fight to hit. You learn how long you can stay out at whatever score, and tailor your hops accordingly. If you're in 4* world, at 900 it is not very long in whichever slice. Which actually plays into the argument FOR progression based pvp. People have made the complaint forever about pve for the same reason; for optimal play, you have to play a certain amount, at a certain time. What some people are saying here is that they want to play a game when they want to play it, not around some weird and sometimes unknown play schedule. Why does someone, who is lucky enough to play at that schedule, get rewarded, while a fan of the game and marvel universe, who plays at every opportunity they can in their busy life, gets less? If you were the business, wouldn't you try to do something that accommodates both?
Spudgutter said: Which actually plays into the argument FOR progression based pvp. People have made the complaint forever about pve for the same reason; for optimal play, you have to play a certain amount, at a certain time. What some people are saying here is that they want to play a game when they want to play it, not around some weird and sometimes unknown play schedule. Why does someone, who is lucky enough to play at that schedule, get rewarded, while a fan of the game and marvel universe, who plays at every opportunity they can in their busy life, gets less? If you were the business, wouldn't you try to do something that accommodates both?
revskip said: Spudgutter said: Rod5 said: One point that seems to be misunderstood is around shield hopping and being hit several times during one fight...as soon as you're not shielded, people can see your team and fight your team.The longer you're unshielded, the more people are likely to hit you. If you get hit several times in one fight, it's because you've been out long enough for people to see and hit you. They didn't see and hit you in one fight - they saw you earlier and have taken untill that fight to hit. You learn how long you can stay out at whatever score, and tailor your hops accordingly. If you're in 4* world, at 900 it is not very long in whichever slice. Which actually plays into the argument FOR progression based pvp. People have made the complaint forever about pve for the same reason; for optimal play, you have to play a certain amount, at a certain time. What some people are saying here is that they want to play a game when they want to play it, not around some weird and sometimes unknown play schedule. Why does someone, who is lucky enough to play at that schedule, get rewarded, while a fan of the game and marvel universe, who plays at every opportunity they can in their busy life, gets less? If you were the business, wouldn't you try to do something that accommodates both? Shields allow you to do exactly that Spud. Don't want to play in the last 3 hours? Use a shield and leave the event early. Want to climb early to your float point and then play a little on the last day, you can do that too. Want to put up a score in the 3000 range, just keep shield hopping throughout. You can time things out to play exactly when you want once you understand how to effectively climb and shield.
Blergh said: Spudgutter said: Which actually plays into the argument FOR progression based pvp. People have made the complaint forever about pve for the same reason; for optimal play, you have to play a certain amount, at a certain time. What some people are saying here is that they want to play a game when they want to play it, not around some weird and sometimes unknown play schedule. Why does someone, who is lucky enough to play at that schedule, get rewarded, while a fan of the game and marvel universe, who plays at every opportunity they can in their busy life, gets less? If you were the business, wouldn't you try to do something that accommodates both? The stupid thing is I don't think they need to introduce a win count to achieve those things - they just have to tweak the way the shield system operates. Instead of hour-timed shields and count downs why not just introduce a system that locks your score in when you shield. They could play around with how it does - at the 100 mark - 50 mark - exact score. - point charge as well as hp - whatever. The player is not on a timer, and they protect their progression to an extent - whilst still buying shields. I think exact would be better for the placement climbers high end - as it'd most probably create a need to play in the last hour otherwise - unless there was some kind of cash out system too that perserved exact score......? *shrugs* I dunno. Stuff like that needs time to workout and I don't care enough to spend the time figuring it out - as really - whats the point? There could be various ways to introduce penalties for quick hops to discourage abuse - like increased HP charges - decreased iso win or levy - reduced points or cool-down or something. I suppose you could still design around there being three shields with various cool down lengths it just doesn't hide you for a limited time. Keeps it pay to win and people can still compete for placement - but means you don't have to put a clock-watch on your life. Just pop back whenever. I mean you wouldn't even need to lock in scores for that aspect just get rid of the timers. You could play with the fact they are taken from queues when shielded too.... maybe - depending on how it'd be implemented. I am not saying it's perfect - as it'd most probably cause point inflation and might not be as tactical as the shield system in place - but it is just two minutes of random thought. Am sure there are solutions to those problems I can't be bothered to think about as I am not a designer nor wish to be.But me introducing a full fleshed out system or even a fun system isn't the point of this post, so feel free to rip it apart. It was literally two minutes of thought - and that's the point. I'm just saying if you really wanted to sit down and think about it there maybe better ways to merge the progression element, the causal element with the competitive element rather than a grindy win system that just doesn't seem to fit with the current model. It just seems like an odd solution to me.It feels like something that has been imported from other gaming systems and doesn't quite belong. I expect there are loads of ways to tweak the existing shield system in a fun way that can retain the competitive element with the casual without adding something that doesn't quite fit or works against itself.But maybe they did contemplate this kind of change for hours and it'd be rubbish and I'm just not dedicating enough time /thought /effort to see why. But at a cursory glance - as that's all I've given it - such an overall doesn't seem necessary.