Do you like the new PvP system (progression rewards based on wins instead of points gained)?

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Comments

  • elvy75
    elvy75 Posts: 225 Tile Toppler
    I disliked the test, even though i have finished #2 in my bracket @cl8, and took all the goodies with me with just 21 wins and 1142 points. I really can't see myself pushing for 40 wins at all. I know something has to be done to make pvp more playable for lower rosters, but this made participation trophy out of it. We already have mode that rewards you for participating, its called pve, why make pvp the same? Also this test proved how much people with developed rosters valued CP over the 4* reward, that they were willing to go as low as cl5 for it. Instead of opening higher CL devs are making vets sandbag to where they will have a sense of progression. Once you champion more than 20 4* the only way for you to make progress is by getting the cp, If this system goes live i sure hope that devs will change it so that both small rosters in need of 4* can progress and that bigger rosters can feel not punished for developing their rosters in order to be able to be competitive.
  • NotBAMF
    NotBAMF Posts: 408 Mover and Shaker

    I love the wins-based system, and the Black Vortex event really reinforced that for me. I pretty much just play PVP to get the 10 CP (16 wins/575 points), and last night, I had a NIGHTMARE of a time getting to 575 points. For every single battle I'd win, I'd come out and see I lost 40 points while I was playing. It was infuriating me. Forget 16 wins; I probably had to play 25 times yesterday to get to 575.


    I'm a big, BIG fan of the wins system. It's more relaxing, and things can be done at my own pace rather than having to push through all at once or know that I'll get knocked down 100+ points for every hour I don't play.

  • Blergh
    Blergh Posts: 159 Tile Toppler
    I actually re-installed to try out the new system and found it kind of fun.  Sat at 900 for ages without any hits too - which was weird. Was retaliating with this one player for about thirty minutes until I run out of health too. Which was fun. 

    Most of the real casaul allainces I've popped into seem to love it. Most say they'd start play PVP more as they can do it piecemeal without losing anything. 

    I am surprised it kept shields. I thought they'd be disabled and it'd go back to being a slug fest in the last hour for placement -  to drive up win counts for high level rosters.

    When you really think about it, its kind of odd they kept points at all. You'd think they'd change placement to being win based too wouldn't you? 40 = 900 season wise. It would partially stop the sandbagging to lower clearance levels, and level the feild between rosters placement wise as everyone would have an easy/same level team to hit.

    Not saying they should do that or it' be fun if they did. Just that it seemed like a half measure and a bit of a hybrid system with points and shields being a bit of an antithesis to what they were trying to do. That the fear of a backlash or outcry has held them back from implementing a new system and this is why it failed. As it was trying to be two things. 
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Blergh said:

    When you really think about it, its kind of odd they kept points at all. You'd think they'd change placement to being win based too wouldn't you? 40 = 900 season wise. It would partially stop the sandbagging to lower clearance levels, and level the feild between rosters placement wise as everyone would have an easy/same level team to hit.
    Please bring back downvotes.
    Please.
  • Blergh
    Blergh Posts: 159 Tile Toppler
    Bowgentle said:
    Blergh said:

    When you really think about it, its kind of odd they kept points at all. You'd think they'd change placement to being win based too wouldn't you? 40 = 900 season wise. It would partially stop the sandbagging to lower clearance levels, and level the feild between rosters placement wise as everyone would have an easy/same level team to hit.
    Please bring back downvotes.
    Please.
    What you down voting - the fact that I thought it was odd? I'm not allowed to hold critical views? 

    My very next lines are :- Not saying they should do that or it' be fun if they did.... 

    I was just trying to point out they had two very different systems in operation that worked against each other and stating why, Those that enjoyed it were engaged in the win system and didn't care about placement, Those that didn't were concentrating on both and thus didn't. 
  • DrDevilDinosaur
    DrDevilDinosaur Posts: 436 Mover and Shaker
    ngoni said:
    WIth the ridiq PvE scaling (hello level 599 Hulk) and this mess for PvP they're giving both middle fingers to their veteran players. A very large number of folks will walk away from the game if PvP becomes this.
    Isn't that the plan?
  • rixmith
    rixmith Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
    I like the idea here but I think they could have accomplished the same effect in a much simpler way. Keep the old system but eliminate defensive point loss unless you have over 900 points. Then people can play for the character progression rewards, and those who want to go further for the CP at 1200 and placement rewards can have the competitive environment that they enjoy.
  • giotorres81
    giotorres81 Posts: 3 Just Dropped In
    I play both pve and pvp, I do enjoy more pvp so please don't make it into another pve.
    The wins system is not that bad idea but 40 wins is far too many, I finish with 33 wins and almost 1.4k score.
    I really tried getting to 40 but I don't see the fun in starting the first day (I did) looking for weaker rosters with minimum points just to get wins, then waiting to get sniped to get more wins again.
    If you like this sort of grinding just do pve.
  • BigrussX5
    BigrussX5 Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    I really wanted to come on here and voice my opinion after finishing the test run, as a player who just started working on their 4* Roster, I very rarely even tried participating in PvP events because of the overwhelming advantage players that been playing much longer have. No matter who hard you tried to progress through the point system recently championed 3* stars can't compete fairly vs maxed out 4* & 5* Rosters so you quickly lose the progress and position on leader board. Yes I know you can shield your self but if you are trying to reach the higher progress rewards it's pretty much impossible because you are constantly getting targeted because of your 3* teams. I very much liked this New system because even though I may lose my position on the board because my roster wasn't maxed out yet, I could still earn the rewards in the progression through grinding and winning. It didn't feel like I was being cheated of my work just because others been playing longer or spent more money in the game.  :)
  • TheWerebison
    TheWerebison Posts: 431 Mover and Shaker
    SangFroid said:
    sh81 said:
    Which perfectly expresses a large part of my problem with PVP.

    There are so many nuances, strategies, requirements, constraints... To getting anywhere with it, its just too much.

    The test simplified things massively, made PVP accessible and (for me) enjoyable.  As well as rewarding.
    And this is at the root of things! It is Player vs Player! There should be nuances, strategies, etc.. People pushing for the dumbing down of the only game mode that provides any excitement or need for actual complex strategies will regret it when they reach late game and are bored beyond belief. 

    First they came for heroics because they were "too hard" now they are coming for PVP so that every player can get top rewards and feel special.

    Why is competition wrong?  Why is losing wrong when you are not as strong or skilled as the opponent?  In other games when you are a lvl 1 whatever do you expect to just march into the final dungeon and beat the final boss because you don't like losing?

    PVE exists already if you just want to do some matches and earn rewards why do we need another version of this at the expense of the last bastion of actual gameplay in the game? 

    Devs should be focusing on making a daily puzzle mode or some other form of gameplay to get players engaged every day instead of adding in a second layer of boring "PVP/E" nodes to repetitively grind. 
    It's because there IS a progression part to PvP. But it's not true progression, because you can lose progress. To take the RPG example, you have a level 1 character and level him up to 15, and finally fight the boss. And you lose! But you don't suddenly go back 4 levels, you stay at 15. Few games reverse your progress; some will make you start over, some will make you lose a portion of things you collected.

    That's the real issue, that progression reward. There are several solutions, but not a one of them will please everyone. Do you have a progression system that rewards points, so mostly the money-spenders and people with great rosters can get them? A win-based system, which hurts the people in higher-level play, who have harder matches because the game actually punishes you for powering up your roster? Or should we completely split the two modes: have PvE be ONLY progression-based, and PvP have NO progression rewards? Well, then everyone will complain about the missing rewards they can't earn anymore.

    As in life, there is no easy solution, and certainly none that won't have a bunch of people screaming at the devs.
  • Lightning_Man
    Lightning_Man Posts: 75 Match Maker
    No from me.  I got to 700 pts in about 16 wins, so that seemed reasonable, but no way was I going to play anymore than that.  It would take me 24 wins to get to a 4 star cover, and it would take probably no more than 8 to get to 900 under the old system for the reward.  Huge disconnect between reward structure and playtime.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    Not even a little bit, it was miserable.

    -Signed, 97 wins T5 1200+ and earned less rewards than I would have before while spending more time at it.
  • Annoyance
    Annoyance Posts: 5 Just Dropped In
    I didn't vote because it's not a simple Yes/No decision. The concept: yes, it helps get people involved sooner and rewards those who do. The implementation: no, for higher end players, we got less rewards for effectively the same amount of work. Fix the scaling on the rewards and try again.
  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    sh81 said:
    Which perfectly expresses a large part of my problem with PVP.

    There are so many nuances, strategies, requirements, constraints... To getting anywhere with it, its just too much.

    The test simplified things massively, made PVP accessible and (for me) enjoyable.  As well as rewarding.
    That was actually my biggest complaint about the system.  Removed all nuance, most of the strategy and made it too mindnumbingly simple.  I enjoy PvP because it has a learning curve and because it requires alliance coordination and encourages socialization.  It makes the mode a community based mode.  It gives top rosters a breadth of options on how to play, cooperatively, sniping and suppressing, front running, climbing late etc.  And rosters that are less developed can still compete if they learn how to maximize their hops and when the best times are to shield.  

    This system removed all of that and made it PVE lite.  All grind and no strategy.  



  • Yoik
    Yoik Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    If they made cp available for top 25 or a cp reward on progression and made it less wins it would work. Otherwise for me it was a Richard the third quest. 
  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
    sh81 said:
    revskip said:
    sh81 said:
    Which perfectly expresses a large part of my problem with PVP.

    There are so many nuances, strategies, requirements, constraints... To getting anywhere with it, its just too much.

    The test simplified things massively, made PVP accessible and (for me) enjoyable.  As well as rewarding.
    That was actually my biggest complaint about the system.  Removed all nuance, most of the strategy and made it too mindnumbingly simple.  I enjoy PvP because it has a learning curve and because it requires alliance coordination and encourages socialization.  It makes the mode a community based mode.  It gives top rosters a breadth of options on how to play, cooperatively, sniping and suppressing, front running, climbing late etc.  And rosters that are less developed can still compete if they learn how to maximize their hops and when the best times are to shield.  

    This system removed all of that and made it PVE lite.  All grind and no strategy.  



    Did it though?

    Ive asked already, and havent seen an answer, but - as someone chasing placement and competition, what exactly did the  test change for you?

    So far as I can see it flooded the queues with easy targets willing to take a beating and not care at all.

    Did it remove competition?  Did it stop you needing to cooperate with your alliance?  Time your shield hops?  Pick your targets on your climb?

    Hands up, Im ignorant on the higher play in PVP, I do stand to be corrected - but from what I can see I cannot see what has changed for the higher level game.

    Aside from your progression likely being extended.

    Though, for all those bemoaning 40 wins for the 4* - I played today and it took me 30 to get to the 10CP - I do believe that the 40is likely right on point as per the stats.

    Yes it did, for higher end rosters. With 2 champed 5*s, my queue was triple 5* champs, 2 5s + high 4, 1 5 with 2 max champed 4s. I tried sandbagging to fine low rosters with low points to no avail. I couldn't get high enough after that to break MMR and beat down on weak rosters.

    This took progression and put it behind a horrible grind.

    It gave me a choice of spending a lot more time to grind out rewards, coming back every few hours once health packs had regenerated, or to forego progression and shoot for placement. So I played for placement, and put in the same effort as the previous event for significantly less rewards.

    For what it's worth, I have used outsde communication only once to hit 1200, a couple of months back to prove I could (though the time to co-ordinate was unappealing so haven't pursued that) and never for 900. Through 3* and 4* playing, it was never necessary.


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