Do you like the new PvP system (progression rewards based on wins instead of points gained)?

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Comments

  • vaportrail
    vaportrail Posts: 64 Match Maker
    Absolutely not.  Maybe if they put the 4* cover at 20 wins and the cp back into progression at 30 wins would it be tolerable.
  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 170 Tile Toppler
    The change makes it feel like PVE. Not a fan.
  • nwman
    nwman Posts: 331 Mover and Shaker
    The new system is terrible for advanced player that have supported this company for years.  Someone already suggested what I had thought.  Leave new system for cl5 and under.  Leave old system for cl6 and up.  

    If if I have to play more for less guaranteed rewards I'll likely either give up this game or maybe play pve if  that new system ever goes live.  
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,698 Chairperson of the Boards

    Very much disliked it.  I squeezed into a T10 by basically climbing until the last moment, but only did 32 wins so did not get the last token or the 4* cover.  That's with a score of 1341.  And I was, in fact, taking many low scoring targets that were easier to fight than higher scoring ones.

    Fights with 5* are not the same as fights with 4* (which aren't the same as fights with 3*.)  They take much longer, the random chance leading to you to a full wipe is much higher, and they consume a lot more health packs.  The game should not get harder the more you progress - setting the rewards so high and putting the CP as a placement reward nearly eliminates the last advantage of a 5* roster.  If they implement this as is, I would definitely advise people to not progress their 5*s past 390 or so.

  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Daiches said:
    Ooh, here's another random idea. People seem to want the 900 cover so badly?

    Move the 3star cover down to 575, the 900  4 star cover to 700 and the 10 cp to 900. Leave 15cp at 1200. Boom! Problem fixed.

    No offense, but its ideas like this one that might make those of us sympathetic to the group of players that didn't like the test to change our minds from "lets find a compromise that's good for both sides" to "screw you all, we want the test to become permanent".
  • TheWerebison
    TheWerebison Posts: 431 Mover and Shaker
    So what I'm seeing is that this change will help people who are still transitioning and can't afford to be competitive (full disclosure: people like me) to get a reward they actually need with time investment. However, this will hurt people with very well-developed rosters, as their fights require a lot more effort and health packs, and getting in 40 wins is rougher.

    So what's the solution here? If we keep this new system, would it benefit from fewer wins to reach max progression? Maybe 30?

    I had proposed a system a while ago which would keep progression points as cumulative, so even if you got knocked down, and your placement points went down, your overall points earned would stay the same. This seems like a form of that, but maybe too harsh?

    Also, I don't know that we need to do EVERYTHING. I know there are people complaining that this change would take too much effort when combined with trying to hit max in Story mode. I know that everyone wants the most rewards they can get, but you shouldn't feel you need to burn yourself out.
  • SangFroid
    SangFroid Posts: 177 Tile Toppler
    No it was terrible. 40 wins for the 4* was a ridiculous target. 40 matches at 5min/match is just way too much on top of a minimum of 9 PVE nodes cleared 5x per day. 

    Most of the comments of people who enjoyed this talked about how great it was not even looking at points just playing matches and getting the rewards..that is PVE. PVP is supposed to have some competitive element to it. So as a PVP system I thought it was terrible. It was the participation ribbon of MPQ. 

    If it has to stay then implement prize tiers. Each prize tier is unlocked by whatever you hit first, required points or number of matches. 
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,809 Chairperson of the Boards
    I liked it. I was able to play on my schedule and easily achieve a reward that has been difficult with an even greater effort. For me, this was a total and complete win. 
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2017
    On the whole...yes. I feel it's a step in the right direction. However there are issues.

    1) Psychologically it feels worse. I can spend 3-10 minutes on a fight just to see the counter go from 20 to...21. Wooo. Before it could have gone from 600-648, which may be the same end result but it *feels* better. It feels less like a grind.
    2) I feel like I need to do a lot more play time to hit the final progression reward. I hit 900 points on my 34th win, so it's not by a huge amount, but I've seen others report a lower amount of wins to hit 900.

    I have ideas for improvement though. Either you could make it so that some fights are worth more wins than others (1 win for every 20 points? So a 40 point fight would get you two wins? That kind of thing. Needs work). Alternatively they can just tweak the win amounts to make it less painful.

    I would also like them to remove dead spaces. By that I mean I hit 28 wins and I get nothing for the next 3 wins making it feel grindy. They can keep the prizes the same (or add more?) but just split them into smaller chunks and have you win something with every win. I'd be much happier winning 500ISO for four wins in a row than winning four matches and getting 2000ISO, for example.
  • TheWerebison
    TheWerebison Posts: 431 Mover and Shaker
    SangFroid said:
    No it was terrible. 40 wins for the 4* was a ridiculous target. 40 matches at 5min/match is just way too much on top of a minimum of 9 PVE nodes cleared 5x per day. 

    Most of the comments of people who enjoyed this talked about how great it was not even looking at points just playing matches and getting the rewards..that is PVE. PVP is supposed to have some competitive element to it. So as a PVP system I thought it was terrible. It was the participation ribbon of MPQ. 

    If it has to stay then implement prize tiers. Each prize tier is unlocked by whatever you hit first, required points or number of matches. 
    That occurred to me, too. And it also occurred to me that this change is probably an indirect result of the fact that our PvE still has competitive elements. So now instead of having two systems that are separate, we're working toward two systems that are even more hybridized.

    They've been working on making PvE better, I get that. The double rewards for 7-day events should've been done AGES ago. But it still suffers from the competitive angle, and now PvP may suffer from a progressing PvE angle.
  • ngoni
    ngoni Posts: 112 Tile Toppler
    WIth the ridiq PvE scaling (hello level 599 Hulk) and this mess for PvP they're giving both middle fingers to their veteran players. A very large number of folks will walk away from the game if PvP becomes this.
  • tchipley
    tchipley Posts: 63 Match Maker
    I like the new system. 
    1. It didn't take very long to get the 40 wins.
    2. I got to face lots of different teams (Not just C4rol,Medusa,Blade ad nauseum)
    3. I was more emboldened to try to fight a tougher team without fear of losing out on progression.
    4. I hit over 800 points for the first time ever. (Even that number wouldn't have got me that 4* cover under the old system.)
    5. Didn't waste HP on shields They never actually helped because I would always get beat down as soon as I stuck my head out to try to get more points. (Yay I got 41 points but lost 172 points.) No I can use the points on Roster Slots.
    6. If I wasn't gonna reach 900 then 1200 didn't matter so moving CP out is a wash. Besides most of the 1200 point folks are in the top finishers and get the CP anyways.
  • max5esq
    max5esq Posts: 58 Match Maker
    As a 4 star roster holder I liked it better, I didn't have to wait to try and get to the 10 command points I was able to knock it out and move on and not worry about getting attacked. I did not try for the 4 star cover becuase I have a non champed version with 5 cover already but I feel I would have played more to try and get it if it was a charecter I particularly wanted.
  • fanghoul
    fanghoul Posts: 311 Mover and Shaker
    I liked it. I did some quick calculations, and it's about the same number of battles as I needed before to get up to at least 10cp and the hp after that. I really hadn't been trying to get much higher than that for a long time, so it was nice to feel like I could actually get a 4 star cover I needed. And I would have, if they hadn't had this test in the middle of a boss event when I'm already short on time for reasons.

    I also really liked that this gave me a reason to participate in a PvP at any time other than the last 3 hours of the event. I could join, get some rewards, work towards some more later and it wasn't a pointless grind where I was constantly having to regain points I lost when I took a break.

    My one concern would be that this changes the dynamic of who you target pretty dramatically. First off, instead of going for difficult high point targets, you always want to hit the easiest possible one. Then there's actually a second incentive not to hit the highest point people, since that will likely limit your range of targets to stronger foes. This worries me a bit, since it might mean PvP becoming a real beating ground for newbies, where they'll be the best people to hit 90% of the time.
  • bobby_2613
    bobby_2613 Posts: 83 Match Maker
    That's a no for me. I recently champed 2 5* (because I pulled their 14th covers in classic - meh... what are the odds you might ask :-/) Anyways, I'm not really a PvP player. I like the way you cannot lose the progression you already made but 40 wins against 2 other champed 5*? Thanks but no thanks. Too long, too much health packs needed. 

    I used to play PvP to 575 when I had time. No more. 5* MMR sucks tinykitty bad.
  • 10_EFX_01
    10_EFX_01 Posts: 91 Match Maker
    As a player that is entering 4* land, I really enjoyed the new format that was introduced. I eventually reached forty wins in due time and I didn't shield up because I usually finish top 25-50(lvl 7); and I have never ever been able to reach 800 pnts without being ko'd down to 500 in pvp with shields. I play a lot of this game and the pvp was usually stressing but the new format was pretty good. 
    Avid player entering 4* land = approval of new format
  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 589 Critical Contributor
    Daiches said:
    Ooh, here's another random idea. People seem to want the 900 cover so badly?

    Move the 3star cover down to 575, the 900  4 star cover to 700 and the 10 cp to 900. Leave 15cp at 1200. Boom! Problem fixed.

    100%. Give them what they want/need.
  • Jabrony_Geoff
    Jabrony_Geoff Posts: 378 Mover and Shaker
    edited July 2017
    I just want to say thank you to the big brain at MPQ who came up with this version of PVP.
    You have only gone and fixed a broken system.

    I love it. 

    I see some people complaining about the length of time it takes to complete it.
    This is simple. Choose PVP or PVE, don't do both.
    This also solves the work/ life balance problem.
    Start on the first day and treat it like the gauntlet. Don't do it all on the first day you break It down over the length of the event.

    I.e
    I'll do 10 matches here, 4 matches there and so on and so on.

    My biggest gripe with pvp was walking away and losing 200 to 300 points after getting attacked..
    That could still happen but it's not so painful as our wins aren't taken away. 

    To the powers that be well done, bring this system in immediately. You have only gone and fixed a broken system. Well done. 

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