Progression Reward Changes in Versus Tournaments (7/20/17)

DarthDeVo

Already posted this in the Worst Moment of the Day thread, but felt it was appropriate here too:

I. HATE. PVP. Black Vortex, got to 899. Want to guess how many points I lost trying to win one more match? 140. ONE HUNDRED FORTY FREAKING POINTS!!! Old PvP can die in a frigging dumpster fire. I finally gave up after blowing well over 1000 HP on healthpacks and shields and actually being worse off than when I started. This. THIS is why people HATE PvP with a burning passion. 

Only consolation is the end of vaulting, so maybe I'll have a chance to actually pull X-23's red cover. Probably not, though. 

Bowgentle

DarthDeVo said:

Already posted this in the Worst Moment of the Day thread, but felt it was appropriate here too:

I. HATE. PVP. Black Vortex, got to 899. Want to guess how many points I lost trying to win one more match? 140. ONE HUNDRED FORTY FREAKING POINTS!!! Old PvP can die in a frigging dumpster fire. I finally gave up after blowing well over 1000 HP on healthpacks and shields and actually being worse off than when I started. This. THIS is why people HATE PvP with a burning passion. 

Only consolation is the end of vaulting, so maybe I'll have a chance to actually pull X-23's red cover. Probably not, though. 

Or you could, like, champ that Panther and never worry about 900 again.

Bowgentle

sh81 said:

Daiches said:

@sh81

Judging by the sheer number of requests I see every day on Reddit alone on how to maximize points in PVE, it baffles me that you don't understand that you have to learn how to play PVE just as much as you need to learn how to play PVP. 
And that includes progression in both (since the most asked question is how little can I do and still get everything in progression).

Perhaps its just me, Ive been as clear as I can and yet it still seems nobody reads the actual point Ive made.

I never said making full progression was easy.  But making progress is.  And its as simple as playing as much as you can and going from there.

Progression is about time and effort.  The more time and effort you put in, the more progress you end up making.

Eventually you are in a place to hit full progression, rather than immediately, but all along you are making progress.

Each tournament you might hit that next reward.  Each time you get a little bit stronger you can take on that extra node and get a few more points - and it all counts.

Progression in PVP?  Its basically impossible to a new player.  You need to do all that learning up front to get anywhere, you cant work it out as you go.  

Quite literally, you make a little progress, and the next time you come back its been taken away!

You're totally right, we're all geniuses who were born with the knowledge about how to play PVP in MPQ.
I mean, who could figure out that hitting targets below you would give them juicy retaliations just by playing?
It's practically rocket science!

If only there were threads in the forum explaining how to play PVP... if only there was a tips and guides section in the forums... alas.

Daiches

sh81 said:

Daiches said:

@sh81

Judging by the sheer number of requests I see every day on Reddit alone on how to maximize points in PVE, it baffles me that you don't understand that you have to learn how to play PVE just as much as you need to learn how to play PVP. 
And that includes progression in both (since the most asked question is how little can I do and still get everything in progression).

Perhaps its just me, Ive been as clear as I can and yet it still seems nobody reads the actual point Ive made.

I never said making full progression was easy.  But making progress is.  And its as simple as playing as much as you can and going from there.

Progression is about time and effort.  The more time and effort you put in, the more progress you end up making.

Eventually you are in a place to hit full progression, rather than immediately, but all along you are making progress.

Each tournament you might hit that next reward.  Each time you get a little bit stronger you can take on that extra node and get a few more points - and it all counts.

Progression in PVP?  Its basically impossible to a new player.  You need to do all that learning up front to get anywhere, you cant work it out as you go.  

Quite literally, you make a little progress, and the next time you come back its been taken away!

You are only a hundred days behind me in play time. I've been hitting 1200 (and 1300) for 5-600 days. The first two seasons doing so without Line, since I couldn't install it on my phone. The first 4 seasons of that without maxed 4stars. More seasons without champed 5stars. 
And it's much much faster and easier now to grow a big team of champed 4stars or even 5stars.

Quit making excuses. Life doesn't hand you everything on a silver platter.

DarthDeVo

Bowgentle said:

DarthDeVo said:

Already posted this in the Worst Moment of the Day thread, but felt it was appropriate here too:

I. HATE. PVP. Black Vortex, got to 899. Want to guess how many points I lost trying to win one more match? 140. ONE HUNDRED FORTY FREAKING POINTS!!! Old PvP can die in a frigging dumpster fire. I finally gave up after blowing well over 1000 HP on healthpacks and shields and actually being worse off than when I started. This. THIS is why people HATE PvP with a burning passion. 

Only consolation is the end of vaulting, so maybe I'll have a chance to actually pull X-23's red cover. Probably not, though. 

Or you could, like, champ that Panther and never worry about 900 again.

Sorry, I have other plans for my ISO right now. Maybe some day. And from what I understand if I champ one 5* and nothing else, I'll go from seeing mostly 4* teams and the occasional undercovered/underleveled 5* to seeing dual max covered or champed 5*s. Maybe the fights are worth more points, but they'll take longer to finish, therefore increasing the likelihood I'll get hammered for major losses trying for one or two more wins, even more than I am now. No thanks. If anything, that would probably make it harder to get to 900. Not too mention I would probably be forced to use him every single fight, synergy or rainbow coverage be danged.

If they change PvE to a system similar to the tests they've run, and they switch PvP to this recent test, then maybe I'd consider champing him. But certainly not before. 

AlluAllu

sh81 and the others, I have really found your discussion interesting. I loved this test and have always hated PVP for the reasons stated here. I tried to climb as high as I could in Black Vortex and that was barely 700+. But then again, I am a casual 3-star player, who doesn't want to bother with strategy and nuances so much. I can now appreciate that perhaps the great rewards of PVP aren't meant for my kind of play style.

But I'll be really happy if this test becomes permament! 

Beer40

BoyWonder1914 said:

Beer40 said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

Beer40 said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

sh81 said:

Daiches said:

Beer40 said:

lokiagentofhotness said:

Even PVE is for experienced players - there are many people who don't know how to play optimally and if you do it alone you either gotta figure it out somehow or use line or some other form of outside communication to learn the tricks. I'm not sure why everyone only complains about outside communication for PVP. 

Its so much more obvious. Example: "I got to 1200 in 15 matches" when those of us that don't use outside communication almost never see high point totals like that. 

That's a huge competitive advantage, and its used by grilling/cupcaking/working outside the confines of MPQ. Its easily apparent to everyone.

"Optimal play" in PVE is pretty self-evident if you care to look. As far as bracket sniping and those things,tbh, I've heard them mentioned a bunch and still don't fully understand them or how they really help unless you just want placement.

Not trying to argue or anything, just answering your question.

Oh man, you really should take notice  of who you are talking too when trying to insult someone for being cupcake eaters.

This kind of illustrates my point, I have literally no idea what that means!

Which illustrates HIS point. If you've ever beat an incredibly easy team for 40+ while you were above 500ish points yourself, then you've eaten a cupcake/grill. Most people that have EVER played PVP have at some point, and they have someone in a LINE group to thank for that. People don't run these incredibly easy teams for themselves, they do it to help bring someone else up. They announce that they are unshielding with said team, and then let people q the easy team while they get ready to shield. Obviously anyone with an appropriate point level and MMR will be able to q up the grill team as well, not just the people in the LINE group. 

Grills/Cupcakes help the entire slice as a whole, not just said LINE group. So everyone who complains that this outside communication isn't "fair" has eaten off of our plates as some point before too. 

I'm going to address these out of order. To the second part I put in bold: Thanks, since that has probably happened to me at some point in nearly 600 days.

But that takes us to the first part I put in bold: I may have hit these on occasion but I don't see teams that are easy very often, and sometimes never in an event. To be able to externally communicate and know exactly who these teams are and when they drop...that's a whole 'nother level of advantage.

And people are attacking us that question such an external advantage in game.

Once again, I will state that I have no issue with people wanting to be part of a community. But I firmly stand by my statement questioning if its good for PVP or not.

Hopefully, after the test they will adopt the idea many have had and have a dual based points/wins system so that the community can do what they do and the rest of us can advance too.

First of all, it's not an advantage if you have access to this community too. Having access and having the time to add another layer to the game are separate things. We'll have to agree to disagree here.  It's not some wall that got put up, and only a select few people were allowed to benefit. You are correct. Your refusal to join it is on you. Again, you are correct. Secondly, as you've proven yourself, you don't even need to be a part of these communities to catch these grills. Here you're wrong. I assume I've caught one. I don't actually know. If they're like seed teams then no, I've never caught one. I was being polite and thanking you for the possibility I've caught one. There are plenty of posts in this thread from LINE users who've said that they've gotten to 900+ without the need for coordination. If you can't q a 50+ point match WITHOUT a line room, then once again, that's on you. Either you're not climbing high enough to catch one, your MMR isn't right to catch one, or you're climbing at a time when anyone with reasonably high points is shielded. Ok, I'll have to think about this one.

Not climbing high enough - YOUR problem. You don't need grills to get to an appropriate point level, all you need is the right MMR to q up someone who has a sufficiently higher point total than you, and BE ABLE to beat the team I climb as soon as I join an event. Should I not see similar levels of teams? Typically I run out my leveled 3*, and (hopefully) either 1 or 2 boosted 4*. I either see 3* teams for 30 points or less, teams similar to mine for 40 points or less, and then the 50+ point teams always have 2 boosted 4* or near max covered/under leveled 5*.  50+ point matches are almost always substantially stronger than my best team.

MMR isn't right - Womp womp. No one who has the capability of q'ing a 4-star team should ever have this problem. If you're stuck in 3* land, then it's understandable, as most 3* star rosters aren't going to be climbing to 750+ I'm not sure if this is correct or not.

Climbing Late - Most people are going to be shielded in the last 8 hours of an event. However there should still usually be enough late climbers before you hit the 3 hr mark to still find high-point qs. I don't play in the last 20 hours of a PVP.


I swear you guys act like the ONLY people you are capable of q'ing up for high points are in line rooms. If you could gather all the people in the world who play PVP, I can guarantee you that there will be much more people who don't use LINE than do. Fact of the matter is, high-point targets should be there for you whether you use the damn app or not. The only people that seem to talk about qing up these big targets are either LINE users, previous LINE users, or top level rosters. Are others doing it that are similar in roster to us? Probably but they don't talk about it much, if at all.

I just put my responses to you in bold. Maybe I'm totally doing something wrong. But getting info from multiple sources that sometimes conflicts with each other doesn't help any of us to figure out if the outside communication does help.

If your roster isn't at the level that allows you to q high point targets, or you simply can't beat them, then once again, that's on you. Your ability to beat these teams, or q these teams, has nothing to do with a LINE room, so I'm not seeing what that has to do with the "fairness" of being on LINE. Having ACCESS to LINE and have having time are completely unrelated, so yet again, that's on you. I find it funny that you find time to post on forums, but not coordinate your efforts with a group of like-minded people that are there to help you out. You not having time to be on line is no one else's problem but yours. It is most definitely an option for you, but you refuse. That doesn't mean its "unfair". You just said you had the capability of q'ing 4 star teams, and 4-star teams by default have the ability to score into 700+ territory. Therefore, you should naturally be q'ing up one of these teams when you start to enter the 400+ range. 

Well, its more socially acceptable to be on my work laptop than my phone during work hours  

To the second point, this is the disconnect we are having (and also a disconnect among the pro-LINE people that dispense advice). Yes, I should be q'ing up some of those teams. Its actually quite the opposite though. I find higher point targets earlier during my climb than later. Any team I see for good points, that is similar in levels (not severely overpowered) I hit on the way to 575. Now, I'd have to double check this for accuracy, but around 300 points the points the following happens: 1) All "weaker" teams are 30 points or less. 2) All "stronger teams are 35 points or less. 3) I see a few teams that are out of my league (that's on me, agreed) for 45 points or less. 

At that point, based on common sense (health/health pack left/close to goal/time available to play left) I either beat as many 1 or 2's as I can until I start seeing 4) Similar or weaker teams that are around 38 points or less. That doesn't last long and then I take out whatever I can beat, for whatever points, until 575 and then I'm out. 

I typically don't shield anymore so I leave that last team out there and let everyone else get theirs (maybe around 5-10 hits before my points fall enough no one touches me the rest of the event?) 

As sh81 (I believe) stated earlier, this whole conversation began with people saying "I get to 1000 in 15 wins" and the rest of us saying "What? I don't get to that with 40 wins!" and then someone else chiming in "Well, I use LINE and all I see are 50+ point targets".

Now I think its likely that all our game experiences are different, and that's why you don't understand my experience any more than I understand yours...but having people say things like "LINE helps to coordinate easy teams, LINE helps to find the proper high point teams, etc.." makes people like me question if that is in fact hurting the system by gaming it. You seem to believe LINE does not help to the extent other people that have posted here, and in other threads, make it seem. But in addition to arguing with us, it would probably be a good idea IMO to also chime in to those peoples posts and say "wait that's not really true" if that is the case. Because those of us not in the know are getting conflicting answers about out of game coordination and that leads to questions that many feel are attacks against the community.

I'm not anti-LINE or anti coordination. I simply am trying to figure out the impact it has on the game. And from there, either offer no suggestions (if the impact is negligible) or offer suggestions to level the playing field (w/o hurting the LINE community's enjoyment of the game in the process).

I realize there are plenty of people on this Forum that are "my way or the highway". I am not one of those. I'd like a system in PVE and PVP that works for as many people as possible by being as fair to as many people as possible. I want the game to be fun for everyone. 

That being said, if there is a system in place that clearly favors "us or them" I will argue all day against the people that defend it and want to keep their caste system in place. Because IMO a large number of the people that argue against me have their place in the pyramid set and don't want to risk anything due to change that could be positive for more people. 

mkmagius

DarthDeVo said:

Bowgentle said:

DarthDeVo said:

Already posted this in the Worst Moment of the Day thread, but felt it was appropriate here too:

I. HATE. PVP. Black Vortex, got to 899. Want to guess how many points I lost trying to win one more match? 140. ONE HUNDRED FORTY FREAKING POINTS!!! Old PvP can die in a frigging dumpster fire. I finally gave up after blowing well over 1000 HP on healthpacks and shields and actually being worse off than when I started. This. THIS is why people HATE PvP with a burning passion. 

Only consolation is the end of vaulting, so maybe I'll have a chance to actually pull X-23's red cover. Probably not, though. 

Or you could, like, champ that Panther and never worry about 900 again.

Sorry, I have other plans for my ISO right now. Maybe some day. And from what I understand if I champ one 5* and nothing else, I'll go from seeing mostly 4* teams and the occasional undercovered/underleveled 5* to seeing dual max covered or champed 5*s. Maybe the fights are worth more points, but they'll take longer to finish, therefore increasing the likelihood I'll get hammered for major losses trying for one or two more wins, even more than I am now. No thanks. If anything, that would probably make it harder to get to 900. Not too mention I would probably be forced to use him every single fight, synergy or rainbow coverage be danged.

If they change PvE to a system similar to the tests they've run, and they switch PvP to this recent test, then maybe I'd consider champing him. But certainly not before. 

FWIW I only have 1 champed 5*. I don't see double 5* teams until I break MMR usually over 1000. I start off seeing boosted 4* + lvl 400ish 5*. Then boosted 4* + champed 5*. Then mmr breaks a little and I start queueing pure 4* teams. By that point though I'm usually hitting high pt grills. 

So don't worry about only seeing teams of 2 5*. 

DarthDeVo

mkmagius said:

DarthDeVo said:

Bowgentle said:

DarthDeVo said:

Already posted this in the Worst Moment of the Day thread, but felt it was appropriate here too:

I. HATE. PVP. Black Vortex, got to 899. Want to guess how many points I lost trying to win one more match? 140. ONE HUNDRED FORTY FREAKING POINTS!!! Old PvP can die in a frigging dumpster fire. I finally gave up after blowing well over 1000 HP on healthpacks and shields and actually being worse off than when I started. This. THIS is why people HATE PvP with a burning passion. 

Only consolation is the end of vaulting, so maybe I'll have a chance to actually pull X-23's red cover. Probably not, though. 

Or you could, like, champ that Panther and never worry about 900 again.

Sorry, I have other plans for my ISO right now. Maybe some day. And from what I understand if I champ one 5* and nothing else, I'll go from seeing mostly 4* teams and the occasional undercovered/underleveled 5* to seeing dual max covered or champed 5*s. Maybe the fights are worth more points, but they'll take longer to finish, therefore increasing the likelihood I'll get hammered for major losses trying for one or two more wins, even more than I am now. No thanks. If anything, that would probably make it harder to get to 900. Not too mention I would probably be forced to use him every single fight, synergy or rainbow coverage be danged.

If they change PvE to a system similar to the tests they've run, and they switch PvP to this recent test, then maybe I'd consider champing him. But certainly not before. 

FWIW I only have 1 champed 5*. I don't see double 5* teams until I break MMR usually over 1000. I start off seeing boosted 4* + lvl 400ish 5*. Then boosted 4* + champed 5*. Then mmr breaks a little and I start queueing pure 4* teams. By that point though I'm usually hitting high pt grills. 

So don't worry about only seeing teams of 2 5*. 

OK, thanks for letting me know. I always appreciate and value hearing the experience of others in about the same place I am, or slightly ahead. 

It's something to keep in mind, but I just have a different goal and plan in mind for my roster right now. I want a broader and deeper bench of 4*s to be able to pull from before trying to go to 5* land.

Again, I'll use Black Vortex as an example. Most teams I saw had some combination of champed and boosted Iceman, Teen Jean or St4r-Lord. Any guesses what three of my more poorly covered 4*s are? 

So maybe I just wasn't destined to do well this event. But my goal, despite how long it may take, is to get to the point it doesn't matter who's boosted because I'll have them all champed and will have a broad list of characters to choose from. 

For the most part, I understand that means some events will be easier than others to hit 900. It's just that this particular instance  (being literally one point away and having all my progress violently ripped away), especially coming off what was personally a much more relaxed and rewarding test experience, that reminded me of just how much I really dislike the mechanics of the way PvP is currently set up. 

aa25

DarthDeVo said:

:snip:

So maybe I just wasn't destined to do well this event. But my goal, despite how long it may take, is to get to the point it doesn't matter who's boosted because I'll have them all champed and will have a broad list of characters to choose from. 

For the most part, I understand that means some events will be easier than others to hit 900. It's just that this particular instance  (being literally one point away and having all my progress violently ripped away), especially coming off what was personally a much more relaxed and rewarding test experience, that reminded me of just how much I really dislike the mechanics of the way PvP is currently set up. 

This is actually one of the worst things vaulting does to new players which also have been pointed out over and over (roster diversity). Don't use these two events (Divine Champion and Black Vortex) as indicators of general PvP. These two have very limited boosted characters. During the normal PvP, it is more likely to have at least one of the latest 12 boosted and that will be a great help.

As for that 1 pts away from 900, which happened to me so many times too, one tip that might help you is to keep an eye on the average pts of the opponents while you skip through them. If you notice that teams that are as strong as yours or even stronger all have less than, say 30-35 pts. It is very likely that you are pulling ahead of them and worth 40+ pts for them. Therefore, people will start queuing you and hit you. If you see this, what you should do is shield up, wait a bit, and do a hop. Never ever think like, you need only one more match, let's try to sneak it through. (Yup, I learn this a hard way.) Hope this helps

DarthDeVo

aa25 said:

DarthDeVo said:

:snip: 

So maybe I just wasn't destined to do well this event. But my goal, despite how long it may take, is to get to the point it doesn't matter who's boosted because I'll have them all champed and will have a broad list of characters to choose from. 

For the most part, I understand that means some events will be easier than others to hit 900. It's just that this particular instance  (being literally one point away and having all my progress violently ripped away), especially coming off what was personally a much more relaxed and rewarding test experience, that reminded me of just how much I really dislike the mechanics of the way PvP is currently set up. 

This is actually one of the worst things vaulting does to new players which also have been pointed out over and over (roster diversity). Don't use these two events (Divine Champion and Black Vortex) as indicators of general PvP. These two have very limited boosted characters. During the normal PvP, it is more likely to have at least one of the latest 12 boosted and that will be a great help.

As for that 1 pts away from 900, which happened to me so many times too, one tip that might help you is to keep an eye on the average pts of the opponents while you skip through them. If you notice that teams that are as strong as yours or even stronger all have less than, say 30-35 pts. It is very likely that you are pulling ahead of them and worth 40+ pts for them. Therefore, people will start queuing you and hit you. If you see this, what you should do is shield up, wait a bit, and do a hop. Never ever think like, you need only one more match, let's try to sneak it through. (Yup, I learn this a hard way.) Hope this helps

Yeah, I know off season isn't very representative of normal PvP as far as boost lists go. 

And my whole climb was a mess from the word go. Didn't get any seed teams. I had already done one shield when I was at like 848 or something like that. I had already spent way too much time and resources, it was super late and I already should have been asleep and I just wanted to be done. 

In hindsight, I probably should have thrown up another shield, waited a few minutes, then tried for one more match. I was just so beyond over it at that point and wasn't thinking rationally. Price of not playing smart, I guess. Doesn't mean I have to like it or resign myself to saying, "Eh, that's just the way it is, I guess."

And, for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure I played more then 40 matches.

EDIT: Oh, and how can I forget about all the crashes I had yesterday? Four at least. Once when I was just tooling around, switching between event screens, again on one of the Sinister Six side nodes I was farming for ISO, then twice during my climb in Black Vortex. Seriously should have just taken that as an omen. 

monsieurmojo

@DarthDeVo, you're going to be fine MMR-wise with 1 championed 5*.  It really doesn't change much until you have a *second* 5* leveled past the boost level of your 4*s (i.e. stop with everybody else at 360 until you're ready to champion one or several more at once).  Even with a championed Black Bolt and a 405 Banner, my MMR isn't vastly different than it was with only a champion Black Bolt.  I see more 2 x 450+ teams, but it isn't like it's all I can see; for the most part, it's still one champion 5*, one boosted 4*, featured character.  There are still plenty of targets out there, and if you champion that Panther, you'll seriously never worry about hitting 900 again.

elvy75

@Beer40 the issue with queuing big points is that 5* teams start climb early and they build points, lots of points, so those that start playing later can climb from 0-1200 on 75 points matches. Now 3* rosters and transitioners to 4* stop playing at 575, so once you are close to that area there are no points for you available. If all 3* and 4* players would play to 800-900 points, you would be able to queue teams that are worth way more than 38 points, for way longer. Before devs put 10 cp at 575 points most of the 3* rosters were climbing to at least 800 points, and 4* to 900 and then there were available points for everyone. Now since 10 cp is at the reasonable level for most, and it takes only 2 pvp to get 20 cp and classic pull, which mostly means 4* most of those developing rosters stopped caring, as it is easier for them just to pull 4* then to fight for it. MMR work in the ways that is separating big and small rosters, and since they removed cupcakes small rosters cant q easy teams for high points anymore. In the cupcake era 5* roster would drop 2* or 3* team from 2000 points or more, and that team could be queued by everyone, which made it much easier for developing rosters to climb. Now they can only go as low as to offer you 1 5*, 3* and a featured, which is still invisible for majority of playerbase, so the trickle down effect of points is gone. With it gone, and people giving up once they are over 575 it makes it painful experience to go for anything higher than that.

@DarthDeVo both MMR and scaling are just fine with 1 5*. If you had that bp maxed you would hit 900 in BV no issues, however since you haven't, well all i can say it is your fault for deliberately leaving him underlevelled. Take leap of faith, max your BP and start enjoying PVP much more than you currently do

broll

sh81 said:

Ive been speaking to OJSP privately, and yes, his version of "Just play" is more than just play.

The 38 point thing, he told me today, it wasnt something I was aware of, and Ive made better progress since.

So far today, Im at 512 points from 25 matches.  147 points (less 39 in hits) since he messaged me.  So my efficiency has improved.

Clearly its not as simple as just having a go though, there is a lot going on in PVP which, if you arent in the know, makes it a horrible place to play.

Which is why I rebelled against the 'just play' tinykitty.  If there are rules or tips to follow then it's not just playing, it's playing buy a certain rule book that not everyone is aware of. 

Astralgazer

My own experience with PVP is that I need, in average, three matches to climb from one reward treshold to another. So, to go from 0 to100 to 200 to 300 to 400 to 500 to 575 to 650 to 725 to 800, I would need 27 matches. From 800 to 900, the number of matches needed varies a great deal because I could make a mistake and got beaten down while sprinting to 900. But timed right, it usually takes 4-5 matches to gain the 4* reward.

So let's be generous and let D3 punish us for wanting certainty in getting progression rewards by upping the number of matches needed. But 40 matches for 4* reward is a tad too much. Make it 35 and I guess people would be happier.

My own experience with the test in DC showed that I hit 650 without being able to hit the prog reward of 10 CP. The scheme didnt work out to my liking.

Daiches

OJSP said:

broll said:

Which is why I rebelled against the 'just play' tinykitty.  If there are rules or tips to follow then it's not just playing, it's playing by a certain rule book that not everyone is aware of. 

Ask in the forum then.

Or whatever place you asked to find out how to maximize points in PVE. Or which character to roster. Or what to spend HP on. Or..
Same thing really.

DarthDeVo

@monsieurmojo and @elvy75 thanks for letting me know about the situation regarding only one 5* champ.

Back before I found the forums and understood the finer points of scaling, I jumped into 3* land before my roster was ready for it. My sole champ was Iron Fist (not a bad one to have, except for being a little squishy).

I was using him in just about every fight because he was the only character that could do enough damage to take down my enemies in a timely manner. My healthpack usage went way up, and suddenly there were some nodes that were way harder. 

As you can imagine, as I pulled up more 3* champs and broadened out my roster, things got easier. Once I started coming here and reading more about scaling, suddenly that experience made so much sense. 

I didn't have nearly as many issues when it came to my first 4* champ, mostly because I think I had all the 3*s available at the time champed, and I champed three 4*s in fairly quick succession. 

I've seen plenty of horror stories about people going into 5* land too early and the game becoming miserable in both PvE and PvP. It seemed the general consensus was to wait until you have a broad number of 4* champs to pair with your sole 5* champ (like 20 or 30 4* champs) or champ three 5*s at once. 

ISO is strictly for my 4*s right now. I'm hoarding until Doc Ock leaves Latest, as I'd really like to get more 5pidey covers, but don't particularly want 5tar-Lord or Doc Ock covers. Hopefully the next 5*s will be decent. But, I'm actually getting close to all those 4* characters leveled up. Once I do, my plan is to slowly bring my 5*s up. All the one covers to 270, and the others that can go higher up to 285 or 290 or so. Basically nothing higher than my highest 4*s.

Based on what y'all have said, maybe I'll go all the way with Panther. We'll see. But hopefully you can see why I've at least been a little gun shy, up to this point anyway. 

Kahmon

After reading all 36 pages (no, not all at once!) and learning a lot about pvp, it seems 2 people posted what I thought was a near perfect solution, but both times nobody followed up with their ideas.

Instead of a win counter or hybrid system, just separate current points from earned points.

Current points is what we have in pvp now and would only be used for placement at the end of each event.

Earned points only considers the matches you play and not point changes from attacks from other players. This score would be used for progression rewards.

This system still lets those who play efficiently zoom through the rewards, and also prevents players from hating pvp when they are on the last fight for something they want and get attacked by 5 others during that fight.

In 36 pages, the only person who would lose out from this change would be the **** who just likes to ruin other peoples days. I hope everyone else can live with that.

Beer40

elvy75 said:

@Beer40 the issue with queuing big points is that 5* teams start climb early and they build points, lots of points, so those that start playing later can climb from 0-1200 on 75 points matches. Now 3* rosters and transitioners to 4* stop playing at 575, so once you are close to that area there are no points for you available. If all 3* and 4* players would play to 800-900 points, you would be able to queue teams that are worth way more than 38 points, for way longer. Before devs put 10 cp at 575 points most of the 3* rosters were climbing to at least 800 points, and 4* to 900 and then there were available points for everyone. Now since 10 cp is at the reasonable level for most, and it takes only 2 pvp to get 20 cp and classic pull, which mostly means 4* most of those developing rosters stopped caring, as it is easier for them just to pull 4* then to fight for it. MMR work in the ways that is separating big and small rosters, and since they removed cupcakes small rosters cant q easy teams for high points anymore. In the cupcake era 5* roster would drop 2* or 3* team from 2000 points or more, and that team could be queued by everyone, which made it much easier for developing rosters to climb. Now they can only go as low as to offer you 1 5*, 3* and a featured, which is still invisible for majority of playerbase, so the trickle down effect of points is gone. With it gone, and people giving up once they are over 575 it makes it painful experience to go for anything higher than that.

@DarthDeVo both MMR and scaling are just fine with 1 5*. If you had that bp maxed you would hit 900 in BV no issues, however since you haven't, well all i can say it is your fault for deliberately leaving him underlevelled. Take leap of faith, max your BP and start enjoying PVP much more than you currently do

@elvy75 Thank You! This is very informative! I am possibly starting my climb too early + people stopping their climbs too soon. I'm sure the community probably helps navigate these issues as best as possible, but I don't have any issues with that.

I'll try to start my climbs a little later and see if it improves the experience. Thanks! 

If nothing else, maybe they'll move the 15 CP back to progression and use a dual wins or points system for progression to satisfy most people.

HaywireII

After being excited by Versus mode again in Divine Champions playing through Black Vortex has turned me off to it again.  Getting hit nonstop after 600 points and making no headway just seems stupid after floating at 850 for hours a few days earlier.  I'm looking forward to them deciding on and implementing a change; whatever that may turn out to be.