Progression Reward Changes in Versus Tournaments (7/20/17)

zodiac339

GuntherBlobel said:

This thread is 32 pages long! Where has everyone been hiding this last year?

What do you mean by "everyone"? The same posters appear multiple times on each page. There aren't more posters than usual; the vocal people just have more to say.

lokiagentofhotness

So i slowly climbed to 900, ended up at around 20 wins, then did a couple more matches and dropped a shield at 1k because I had to go shopping. Then my shield expired and i continued climbing slowly, hitting whatever showed up until I hit 40 wins and around 1.2k. Shielded to the end in the top 5. It was ok, I appreciated the free ISO that came from all the matches. I had hoped that someone would hit me so I could engage in a great war with them while racking up wins but alas, no one did.

BearVenger

I had a pretty heavy work week, and so despite all my previous statements, I didn't get around to the event until late at night the last two days.

If it were a conventional event, I would have plowed ahead to 800 or 900, but going from 2 wins to 40? I just stopped shortly after the first Vintage Heroic. 32 more wins was just not worth it.

BearVenger

Jaedenkaal said:

Vhailorx said:

So is the number of players who like the game enough to win 40 pvp matches 3x a week but DON'T have a strong enough roster to hit 900 regularly.

I suspect this is not true. From what I've read around here, it's not roster strength, but external coordination that makes 900 points reachable. I suspect there's a huge number of players with the right roster strength who are unwilling or unable to coordinate effectively to reach 900 (myself included).

I'll echo @monsieurmojo and @Vhailorx. Once I started having a few fully covered 4*s and champed 3*s, I was able to get to 900. At my current state, external communication helps me surmount the gap to 1200, but as was mentioned before, I have to spend more ISO than before to skip my fellow coordinators.

CT1888

Crowl said:

CT1888 said:

This change would gut the feel of pvp that I enjoy, the back and forth nature of climbing and retaliating, and turn it into a pve light, with a competative bit tacked on for those seeking placement.

Surely the competitive part of pvp is still there as before, it has simply become less soul-crushing for those people that most need 4* covers but who keep getting smacked back down to 800 before they can get over the 900 needed?

There are still tweaks needed to the changes, but overall this is a very positive change that should see an increase in engagement in pvp as people realise they have a lot more flexibility in how they play an event and can eventually get the progression rewards even when their roster will prevent them from placing well.

Yes, the competative bit is still there, but tacked on at the end if you want to get progression (after a grind/seal clubbing/mutual retaliation phase, or else ignoring progression awards and just focusing on placement, with a hollow climb devoid of the later and better progression rewards. The 15cp being the harshest bit of all (I admit to really disliking that bit as I'm only just reaching it)

Maybe I'm just a masochist, but coming up through the game I got a lot of fun out of working out how to place higher with my roster at the time, and even the frustrations  were part of the excitement as I figured out what to do better. True, I don't know what 3* and early 4* game is like now, but I know it was doable then (when 4* ruled, and then when OML was king).

mkmagius

I don't think OJSP meant just take on every match by "just play". You should never be fighting matches worth less than 38 pts that low. If you can't find any then that's a cue to pause and come back to it when overall pts have built up. 

Personally I think "just play" does need a little bit of strategy. When I was a 4* player I found the best success climbing in early US hours on the last day of the event. For s3 that would be Sunday, Tuesday, and Friday. That has given me the best odds of finding worthwhile matches and avoiding hits.

Bowgentle

sh81 said:

Clearly its not as simple as just having a go though, there is a lot going on in PVP which, if you arent in the know, makes it a horrible place to play.

Which is the whole point.

PVP isn't just "show up and match 3", we've all had to learn how to play.

Some of us have been at it for four years.

ZamWiesel

sh81 said:

Which is contra to the simplicity with which so many say "I turned up, played a bit, and got to 800, so why cant you?"

Go through this thread, there are plenty of examples.

The point being, each of them assume an amount of knowledge many people just dont have.


@OJSP Has been brilliant to me today, explained a few things and most likely put me on track to be able to actually crack 900 with some practice.  At the very least make my "575 and out" much less traumatic. 

Something that was well beyond me before now.

And this is the best part about being on LINE that so many don't understand. It's not just coordinating hops and bakes to make climbing easier but also about learning from experienced players. There are training rooms to ask questions and get tips. A community of people who are there to make your gaming experience better. 

FokaiHI

ZamWiesel said:

sh81 said:

Which is contra to the simplicity with which so many say "I turned up, played a bit, and got to 800, so why cant you?"

Go through this thread, there are plenty of examples.

The point being, each of them assume an amount of knowledge many people just dont have.


@OJSP Has been brilliant to me today, explained a few things and most likely put me on track to be able to actually crack 900 with some practice.  At the very least make my "575 and out" much less traumatic. 

Something that was well beyond me before now.

And this is the best part about being on LINE that so many don't understand. It's not just coordinating hops and bakes to make climbing easier but also about learning from experienced players. There are training rooms to ask questions and get tips. A community of people who are there to make your gaming experience better. 

Not only this, but you are getting real time help and queues at the same time. Unlike this where it's pages upon pages of telling you what to do. On Line, ask a question, try it out. I could hit 900 with my roster without Line, but a guy sent me a message to join his room and ever since, I hit 1200 easy. That's being modest. 

ZamWiesel

I personally don't find it to be more effort or a hassle but I know many that share that view. And yes I agree, PvP is a horrible experience for the average player just going it alone. I rarely played and never enjoyed PvP before LINE. 

BoyWonder1914

sh81 said:

I understand that perfectly, I just dont want to do it.  Its far more effort/hassle than I am prepared to put into a mobile game.  Its bad enough I play it as much as I do!

I think most people do understand there is a whole community aspect, they just dont want to take that extra step.

Thatr said, without Line, or support of some kind, PVP is hard to get into and do well with.  For the average player its often a really horrible experience.

I don't get why people need someone to tell them that matches worth less than a certain amount of points are inefficient uses of health packs and time. Just from playing PVP in general you should have seen matches worth 40+ points before, and seen matches worth less than 20 points before. It should be common sense which makes more sense to climb on. Why fight Carol/Medusa/Blade for 23 points when there's matches for more points against similar level or even weaker opponents? I get that many aspects of PVP aren't intuitive, but knowing not to waste your time on low-point level matches isn't rocket science. There has always been a skip button. 

Daiches

sh81 said:

I understand that perfectly, I just dont want to do it.  Its far more effort/hassle than I am prepared to put into a mobile game.  Its bad enough I play it as much as I do!

I think most people do understand there is a whole community aspect, they just dont want to take that extra step.

Thatr said, without Line, or support of some kind, PVP is hard to get into and do well with.  For the average player its often a really horrible experience.

In every single game, you need to learn how the game works. There's really no pick-up-and-win in any game. Think you could get the equivalent of the second highest reward if you just picked up League of Legends without learning how your character works, lanes, team composition, etc? Or any other game you might think off? 

An average player that would like to get anywhere in those games would read up on it, chat with friends about it, engage in the community. They wouldn't have a horrible experience. Just a learning curve that may or may not be challenging for them. And this game is no different. 

In another post you said you were only 100 days behind me in play time. The difference between our rosters/score is exactly that engagement in the community and learning from others (and giving advice). 

Try it. PM'ing with OJSP has already given you a leg up, as you stated yourself. Imagine having the knowledge of thousands of players ready to tap at any moment. Players of all roster sizes, play time, experience, slices and so on. If you decide it really isn't for you, so be it, but you really won't know unless you try.

Silverblade

sh81 said: Thatr said, without Line, or support of some kind, PVP is hard to get into and do well with.  For the average player its often a really horrible experience.

This...

Vhailorx

sh81 said:

I understand that perfectly, I just dont want to do it.  Its far more effort/hassle than I am prepared to put into a mobile game.  Its bad enough I play it as much as I do!

I think most people do understand there is a whole community aspect, they just dont want to take that extra step.

Thatr said, without Line, or support of some kind, PVP is hard to get into and do well with.  For the average player its often a really horrible experience.

You have already taken the time to post in this thread several times.  That is exact amount of effort it woukd take to get Line, find an MPQ room and get some advice.

I think the problem demi has with fixing pvp is that there are really two separate issues with pvp that often get conflated.  

(1) pvp is for stronger rosters.  The top rewards are not really available to 2* and 3* players, nor do i think demi wants them to be; and
(2) the gap between efficient and inefficient pvp play is massive.  

These two issues are quite distinct, but are often treated as identical by casual olayers.  There are many examples of players complaining on the forums that "i can't get X points in pvp; it's so unfair!" when, upon examination, those players had perfectly fine rosters for X points and just played very inefficiently.

Before we change everything about pvp to satisfy complaints about #2, it might make sense to give players more guidance about the pvp system.

Jaedenkaal

(1) pvp is for stronger rosters.  The top rewards are not really available to 2* and 3* players, nor do i think demi wants them to be

Isn't that what SCL is (supposed to be) for?

lokiagentofhotness

Even PVE is for experienced players - there are many people who don't know how to play optimally and if you do it alone you either gotta figure it out somehow or use line or some other form of outside communication to learn the tricks. I'm not sure why everyone only complains about outside communication for PVP. 

lokiagentofhotness

OJSP said:

lokiagentofhotness said:

So i slowly climbed to 900, ended up at around 20 wins, then did a couple more matches and dropped a shield at 1k because I had to go shopping. Then my shield expired and i continued climbing slowly, hitting whatever showed up until I hit 40 wins and around 1.2k. Shielded to the end in the top 5. It was ok, I appreciated the free ISO that came from all the matches. I had hoped that someone would hit me so I could engage in a great war with them while racking up wins but alas, no one did.

Should've stayed unshielded..

I'm always unshielded.

Beer40

lokiagentofhotness said:

Even PVE is for experienced players - there are many people who don't know how to play optimally and if you do it alone you either gotta figure it out somehow or use line or some other form of outside communication to learn the tricks. I'm not sure why everyone only complains about outside communication for PVP. 

Its so much more obvious. Example: "I got to 1200 in 15 matches" when those of us that don't use outside communication almost never see high point totals like that. 

That's a huge competitive advantage, and its used by grilling/cupcaking/working outside the confines of MPQ. Its easily apparent to everyone.

"Optimal play" in PVE is pretty self-evident if you care to look. As far as bracket sniping and those things,tbh, I've heard them mentioned a bunch and still don't fully understand them or how they really help unless you just want placement.

Not trying to argue or anything, just answering your question.

acescracked

Beer40 said:

lokiagentofhotness said:

Even PVE is for experienced players - there are many people who don't know how to play optimally and if you do it alone you either gotta figure it out somehow or use line or some other form of outside communication to learn the tricks. I'm not sure why everyone only complains about outside communication for PVP. 

Its so much more obvious. Example: "I got to 1200 in 15 matches" when those of us that don't use outside communication almost never see high point totals like that. 

That's a huge competitive advantage, and its used by grilling/cupcaking/working outside the confines of MPQ. Its easily apparent to everyone.

Your post is exactly why us "vets" get frustrated with newish players. You assume too much.

Outside communication isn't what gives us high point targets. It's our MMR. Yes the grills can make life easier but last PvP I was in S5 and hit 1200 (to get t5) hitting 0 grills and 0 line usage.

Sometimes I goto s1 and climb without Line hitting 65+ point targets all the way to 1300.

Daiches

Beer40 said:

lokiagentofhotness said:

Even PVE is for experienced players - there are many people who don't know how to play optimally and if you do it alone you either gotta figure it out somehow or use line or some other form of outside communication to learn the tricks. I'm not sure why everyone only complains about outside communication for PVP. 

Its so much more obvious. Example: "I got to 1200 in 15 matches" when those of us that don't use outside communication almost never see high point totals like that. 

That's a huge competitive advantage, and its used by grilling/cupcaking/working outside the confines of MPQ. Its easily apparent to everyone.

"Optimal play" in PVE is pretty self-evident if you care to look. As far as bracket sniping and those things,tbh, I've heard them mentioned a bunch and still don't fully understand them or how they really help unless you just want placement.

Not trying to argue or anything, just answering your question.

Oh man, you really should take notice  of who you are talking too when trying to insult someone for being cupcake eaters.