*** She-Hulk (Modern) ***

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Comments

  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
    himatako wrote:
    eidehua wrote:
    himatako wrote:
    The more I think about green, the more I feel that it should have been true healing instead. I mean, look at the skill's characteristics:
    - High AP cost
    - Competing with other powerful green powers.
    - Unreliable side effect (depleting enemy's AP)

    All of this just for fake healing isn't worth it. If it were true healing, it would be the only active true healing skill in the game (for now), which might justify the above characteristics. This would make choosing between using Reprieve or Call of Storm a tougher choice to make.

    Spider Man Web Bandages: 12 Ap yellow
    - High AP cost (same as she hulk)
    - competes with Thunder Strike, Sacrifice, Battle Plan, Avengers Assemble (not as prominent as green but still potentially strong)
    - no side effect besides more fake healing (with 3 web tiles out, aka 15 blue AP used stunning)

    So why shouldn't spidey have true healing?

    We won't get true healing unless it actually fits comic wise (apparently what they are going for).

    Good point. I don't use Spidey so I totally forgot about him. I thought BWO's heal was at 9 AP but apparently I was wrong and it is 11 AP which isn't that different from Reprieve.
    What do you mean? oBW's heal is 9 AP, at least at levels 3-5 for sure. At level 1, it is indeed 11 AP. It is miles ahead of Reprieve and Web-Bandages though because it also delays enemy countdown tiles.
  • himatako
    himatako Posts: 269 Mover and Shaker
    locked wrote:
    What do you mean? oBW's heal is 9 AP, at least at levels 3-5 for sure. At level 1, it is indeed 11 AP. It is miles ahead of Reprieve and Web-Bandages though because it also delays enemy countdown tiles.
    You're right. I only looked at the first number I saw in the oBW's thread and forgot that she got -2 AP in one of her upgrade.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,759 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think She-Hulk has some really good use in PVE and is not usless when buffed in PVP. Her Red does solid, and one of the better AOE damages in Red. She can match really well with Patch against goons. 1st she turns 3 CD tiles turned into 2 strike tiles, then Berserker rage for 6 strike tiles, then power of attorney for AOE damage. I know people have said OBW is better with Patch becuase of double dip on the strike tiles but and AOE damage with cascades does a lot of damage. She also has very high health so when she is buffed in PVP she is also usefull. Her green is not very good but It is easy to bring a strong green and black and let her counter with blue and red. She is a very solid 2nd tier character and compared to Beast and Captain Marvel I think she is significantly better than both of those newier characters.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    She-Hulk's green just suffers from a double whammy of overreaction of how AP manipulation and healing abilities were way overpowered and since her green does both it's got double dose of extra suck. I'm guessing whenever (which can be a very long time) they actually sat down and realize that only AR/Dormammu are way overpowered for AP manipulation and that non true healing abilities are generally way too weak they'll turn this into something usable, but you could be waiting a very long time for that to happen looking at how long it took them to fix Magneto. I'm sure from a design they think Reprieve is like AR + pre nerf Web Bandages put together, even though it's more like (AR + pre nerf Web Bandages)/10.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    If they would just turn healing skills into shield skills they would be better. I'm not talking protect tiles, I'm talking force field shields. Example, OBW casts blue, instead of healing for x it puts x shield on characters, the big difference with this is that even if the character is at full health, the shield would go on top. So if Punisher is sitting at 6800 Health, and widow casts shield he would have 6800 health plus say a 1000 pt shield. in order to get to his health, you would need to do 1000 damage first. This would then allow a character like Deadpool who attacks their health bar, make more sense, in otherwords Deadpool could get around shields, this would add a very cool dynamic, so you would have your heal characters, like Wolvie, Daken who heal in game but you would have shield characters. For those familiar with Magic the Gathering it would work similar to how losing a life vs. being dealt damage use to work. If I hit you with a fireball it would do 3 pts of dmg which could be prevented, but if I hit you with a drain life, it could not because like Deadpool I'm attacking your Health Bar.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    If they would just turn healing skills into shield skills they would be better. I'm not talking protect tiles, I'm talking force field shields. Example, OBW casts blue, instead of healing for x it puts x shield on characters, the big difference with this is that even if the character is at full health, the shield would go on top. So if Punisher is sitting at 6800 Health, and widow casts shield he would have 6800 health plus say a 1000 pt shield. in order to get to his health, you would need to do 1000 damage first. This would then allow a character like Deadpool who attacks their health bar, make more sense, in otherwords Deadpool could get around shields, this would add a very cool dynamic, so you would have your heal characters, like Wolvie, Daken who heal in game but you would have shield characters. For those familiar with Magic the Gathering it would work similar to how losing a life vs. being dealt damage use to work. If I hit you with a fireball it would do 3 pts of dmg which could be prevented, but if I hit you with a drain life, it could not because like Deadpool I'm attacking your Health Bar.

    They already said they could do that but they didn't do so because they don't want to make healing too powerful. True story.

    I think OBW's heal is okay because it has a useful side effect beyond just healing, but Spiderman and She-Hulk certainly can use the help. At any rate, She-Hulk's problem is two-fold. Reprieve is a combo AP manipulation + healing, and both are way overcompensated for their previous mistakes in similar abilities, which also means you can't just put all the power back in one aspect of the skill.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    If they would just turn healing skills into shield skills they would be better. I'm not talking protect tiles, I'm talking force field shields. Example, OBW casts blue, instead of healing for x it puts x shield on characters, the big difference with this is that even if the character is at full health, the shield would go on top. So if Punisher is sitting at 6800 Health, and widow casts shield he would have 6800 health plus say a 1000 pt shield. in order to get to his health, you would need to do 1000 damage first. This would then allow a character like Deadpool who attacks their health bar, make more sense, in otherwords Deadpool could get around shields, this would add a very cool dynamic, so you would have your heal characters, like Wolvie, Daken who heal in game but you would have shield characters. For those familiar with Magic the Gathering it would work similar to how losing a life vs. being dealt damage use to work. If I hit you with a fireball it would do 3 pts of dmg which could be prevented, but if I hit you with a drain life, it could not because like Deadpool I'm attacking your Health Bar.
    I can see what you're saying and it would make sense. The question now, given your Deadpool example, would be willing to deal with "True Damage." Skills that bypass shields and characters are downed when their "Real Health" hits 0. That would seem like the only way in which they would probably implement shields. This would, unfortunately, make the gave even more complex and you'd have to approach certain characters differently if you run shields.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    OnesOwnGrief wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    If they would just turn healing skills into shield skills they would be better. I'm not talking protect tiles, I'm talking force field shields. Example, OBW casts blue, instead of healing for x it puts x shield on characters, the big difference with this is that even if the character is at full health, the shield would go on top. So if Punisher is sitting at 6800 Health, and widow casts shield he would have 6800 health plus say a 1000 pt shield. in order to get to his health, you would need to do 1000 damage first. This would then allow a character like Deadpool who attacks their health bar, make more sense, in otherwords Deadpool could get around shields, this would add a very cool dynamic, so you would have your heal characters, like Wolvie, Daken who heal in game but you would have shield characters. For those familiar with Magic the Gathering it would work similar to how losing a life vs. being dealt damage use to work. If I hit you with a fireball it would do 3 pts of dmg which could be prevented, but if I hit you with a drain life, it could not because like Deadpool I'm attacking your Health Bar.
    I can see what you're saying and it would make sense. The question now, given your Deadpool example, would be willing to deal with "True Damage." Skills that bypass shields and characters are downed when their "Real Health" hits 0. That would seem like the only way in which they would probably implement shields. This would, unfortunately, make the gave even more complex and you'd have to approach certain characters differently if you run shields.

    Wouldn't be horribly complicated but why should some characters have 'true damage' over others? Would it be over some comic book stuff again?
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    OnesOwnGrief wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    If they would just turn healing skills into shield skills they would be better. I'm not talking protect tiles, I'm talking force field shields. Example, OBW casts blue, instead of healing for x it puts x shield on characters, the big difference with this is that even if the character is at full health, the shield would go on top. So if Punisher is sitting at 6800 Health, and widow casts shield he would have 6800 health plus say a 1000 pt shield. in order to get to his health, you would need to do 1000 damage first. This would then allow a character like Deadpool who attacks their health bar, make more sense, in otherwords Deadpool could get around shields, this would add a very cool dynamic, so you would have your heal characters, like Wolvie, Daken who heal in game but you would have shield characters. For those familiar with Magic the Gathering it would work similar to how losing a life vs. being dealt damage use to work. If I hit you with a fireball it would do 3 pts of dmg which could be prevented, but if I hit you with a drain life, it could not because like Deadpool I'm attacking your Health Bar.
    I can see what you're saying and it would make sense. The question now, given your Deadpool example, would be willing to deal with "True Damage." Skills that bypass shields and characters are downed when their "Real Health" hits 0. That would seem like the only way in which they would probably implement shields. This would, unfortunately, make the gave even more complex and you'd have to approach certain characters differently if you run shields.

    Wouldn't be horribly complicated but why should some characters have 'true damage' over others? Would it be over some comic book stuff again?
    Because if you don't do it, you might as well just go back to pre-true healing. Shields would just make it where you'd have to endlessly chip away at health when those characters are around and fire them off early. Nobody in the 2* area would want to be in a situation in which OBW will just all of a sudden pop off 1352 extra health you have to fight through first turn off a cascade. That's a total of 4056 effective health on a team. Spider-man would create 9744. That's a lot of health to fight through just because of 1 skill with potential to get even higher if they don't cap the shield value. You didn't include any sort of limiting factor or counter-weight to your idea.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    If Spiderman fired off 3 Web Bandages and put up 10K shields on everyone you can just hit retreat. It's no worse than being on the receiving end of 3 Thunder Strikes.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    She-Hulk's incredibly weak healing is almost completely inconsequential at a high cost, and the AP drain is random. Lets actually let her heal herself, double healing amounts, and remove the randomness at level 5.
      Reprieve - Green 12 greentile.png
      She-Hulk charges into battle, catching her foes off guard and giving allies a chance to rest. Reduces one color of the enemies' AP reserves to zero, then heals herself for 128 while giving her allies a similar but temporary burst of health.
        Level 2: Also cuts a second AP color by 25 percent Level 3: Gives allies a burst of 166 health Level 4: Gives allies a burst of 300 health. Also cuts a second AP color by 50 percent. Level 5: She-Hulk chooses two enemy reserves and drains them to zero.
      Max Level: Restores 1574 health
    • Kolence
      Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
      If she could target two colors to deplete, that alone would make the power strong IMO.
      Or, with stronger healing and self true healing, she might randomly choose colors do deplete, but only from the ones the enemy team has as active powers. Would that be a good tradeoff?
    • himatako
      himatako Posts: 269 Mover and Shaker
      What are the characters that work best with her? Currently I'm going with IM40 and Patch.
      IM40 is there to give her redtile.png and bluetile.png so that she can spam Power of Attorney after Berserker Rage. Then hopefully the chaos caused by Power of Attorney will get rid most of the enemies & enemy's strike tiles. If there are enemy strike tiles left, you can use Settlement and pray that it will get rid of them.
    • Unknown
      Unknown
      Power of Attorney will also get rid of some of your strike tiles, keep in mind.
    • Unknown
      Unknown
      Power of Attorney has a rather reliable pattern of the tiles it destroys so you should be able to tell whether it'll get your strike tiles after a Berserker Rage or the enemy's strike tiles. Unfortunately knowing this information doesn't change the outcome, but don't do Power of Attorney if most of your strike tiles are at the bottom unless you're sure it's enough to win the game.
    • wymtime
      wymtime Posts: 3,759 Chairperson of the Boards
      himatako wrote:
      What are the characters that work best with her? Currently I'm going with IM40 and Patch.
      IM40 is there to give her redtile.png and bluetile.png so that she can spam Power of Attorney after Berserker Rage. Then hopefully the chaos caused by Power of Attorney will get rid most of the enemies & enemy's strike tiles. If there are enemy strike tiles left, you can use Settlement and pray that it will get rid of them.

      Thnk of She-Huld as a one color Tank. She does ok damage with power of attorney and since it is AOE it is not bad. Her blue is only situationally useful. You can run her with Patch for extra damage on POA with Psy lock. Drop BR and then Psy black for double dip damage. another combo is LThor if you have him 3,5,5 and Hood. The problem is Hood tanks Yellow which you need.
      If you really want to use blue you can always bring spiderman along and turn your protect tiles into attack tiles but I would not recomend it.
    • OnesOwnGrief
      OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
      I've been running her with XForce and the cascade potential is crazy stupid. Having 4 skills for board shake-up between the two of them can lead to a large gain of AP very quickly.
    • simonsez
      simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
      OnesOwnGrief wrote:
      I've been running her with XForce and the cascade potential is crazy stupid. Having 4 skills for board shake-up between the two of them can lead to a large gain of AP very quickly.
      Xforce green/black, she-hulk red... which is the 4th?
    • OnesOwnGrief
      OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
      simonsez wrote:
      OnesOwnGrief wrote:
      I've been running her with XForce and the cascade potential is crazy stupid. Having 4 skills for board shake-up between the two of them can lead to a large gain of AP very quickly.
      Xforce green/black, she-hulk red... which is the 4th?
      Xforce Yellow is board shake-up as well.
    • Phaserhawk
      Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
      I can't even understand why people would opt anything but 5 blueflag.png 3 greenflag.png 5 redflag.png for her. Sure blue is very situational, but at level 5 it converts CD tiles, and in PvE with all goons or 2 out of 3 goons, or anything with Daken and Bullseye, being able to convert those CD tiles is amazing, going 3 blueflag.png 5 greenflag.png 5 redflag.png is taking her from situationaly bad to just plain terrible

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