*** She-Hulk (Modern) ***

OnesOwnGrief

Spoit wrote:

wymtime wrote:

What do you think about She-Hulk as a PVE specialist. With all the goons in unstable ISO and all the countdown tiles I can see her blue as an awsome ability. You pair her with MMN to create lots of Blue AP to cast settlement. You would have She-Hulk's power of attorney to destroy the bottom of the board and do AOE damage. I am then thinking Thor, or BP would then fill out the rest of the team. You are missing a green hammer with BP but with settlement and AOE abilities you might not really need it.

Problem is that OBW would still probably be more useful.

She is more useful as keeping tiles on the board can prevent them from firing off another tile on most skills. You also have time to gain more AP (which can be stolen from the enemy) while those timer count down. Having to repeated gain 9 AP for Settlement isn't exactly the best way to deal with them since it's possible (I believe) to hit your own tiles with Settlement the next time.

Spoit

It feels like a crapshoot getting good replacements with settlement when there are more than, like, 5 tiles on the board. Or at least until there are so many special tiles on the board that either you or the ai are in serious trouble anyway

Unknown

Not sure if anyone posts this before. But She-Hulk Green skill can actually drain Team-Up AP too.

over_clocked

Hannybal wrote:

Not sure if anyone posts this before. But She-Hulk Green skill can actually drain Team-Up AP too.

Yeah, it's the most recent patch which buffed AP stealers to being able to steal TUAP as well. Sadly She-Hulk green is still horrible

Unknown

locked wrote:

Hannybal wrote:

Not sure if anyone posts this before. But She-Hulk Green skill can actually drain Team-Up AP too.

Yeah, it's the most recent patch which buffed AP stealers to being able to steal TUAP as well. Sadly She-Hulk green is still horrible

There really aren't adjectives sufficient to describe how truly bad it is. It would be bad if it was a purple power, of which there are hardly any actives at the 3* level. Except it's not. It's a green power, home of some of the best powers in the game. If it was a much better heal and a steal instead of a drain it might just possibly manage to lose the dubious distinction of worst 3* green power, and it costs almost as much as Call the Storm. Come to think of it, if it wasn't for X-Farce it would almost certainly be the worst green power in the whole game.

The real question is if it's the worst power on any color anywhere, but there are enough marginal and thoroughly overpriced powers that it probably isn't. But it's at least in the conversation. It's just that bad.

Unknown

locked wrote:

Hannybal wrote:

Not sure if anyone posts this before. But She-Hulk Green skill can actually drain Team-Up AP too.

Yeah, it's the most recent patch which buffed AP stealers to being able to steal TUAP as well. Sadly She-Hulk green is still horrible

Yea... but the draining (till 0 !) is quite good. Only bad is randomize out of 7 colors. Of cause the heal is not exciting, considering its not true healing too. Oh btw, on a sidenote, AP stealers like OBW are able to steal Team Up AP now ? I didn't really notice this though (if it is for the latest R59 patch).

NorthernPolarity

Hannybal wrote:

locked wrote:

Hannybal wrote:

Not sure if anyone posts this before. But She-Hulk Green skill can actually drain Team-Up AP too.

Yeah, it's the most recent patch which buffed AP stealers to being able to steal TUAP as well. Sadly She-Hulk green is still horrible

Yea... but the draining (till 0 !) is quite good. Only bad is randomize out of 7 colors. Of cause the heal is not exciting, considering its not true healing too. Oh btw, on a sidenote, AP stealers like OBW are able to steal Team Up AP now ? I didn't really notice this though (if it is for the latest R59 patch).

The problem is that you're spending 12 green AP to do this. With 12 green AP, you could be world rupturing the opponent for 5k damage, or are 2 ap away from call the storming the opponent. The game is so offensively oriented that defensive abilities need to be significantly cheaper in order to be worth it. Even something like Falcon's bird strike, where you deny the opponent out of any match damage, is not seeing any play simply because theres not enough benefit compared to just focusing purely on offense. If they want to make abilities like this actually relevant, they need to slash the AP costs: 6AP is probably a little too broken for this effect, so I'm thinking ~7AP would make she-hulk an actually viable defensive character.

Phaserhawk

If her green was as is before the true healing, then I say it's not terrible as it's sort of a game reset, but as is, it's terrible.

famousfoxking

Why is Power of Attorney red instead of green? (one of the trademarks of green powers is tile shattering - Unstoppable Crash, Thunderclap, Godlike Power, etc)
Why is Reprieve green instead of blue (or maaaaaaaybe yellow, but not really)? It's not like there is no precedent for blue powers that heal or steal. There really is no precedent for a green power that does either.
Why is Settlement blue instead of black? The closest other power to what Settlement does is Trickery. Possibly green (like Berserker Rage). Or even purple (like Pheremone Rage).

The whole point, in a game design like this, of putting powers that do similar things in the same category (color in this case) is to prevent spamming of an effect. Stuns, for example, really only exist in blue and black powers. That's to prevent you from taking a team who has stuns in 3 or 4 colors and stunlocking the opponent with whatever AP is handiest. The same *should* be true of healing (only putting it on one color) so that you can't heal on any old AP you might have lying around. True Healing has made healing fairly useless, so it doesn't really matter that it's spread across three different colors, but that would normally be the idea. Attack tiles are another example, you can't really drop multiple powers that will create attack tiles in the same turn because they're all going to draw from your pool of black AP. It's great that She-Hulk has a different color spread, but to what end? It's like her powers are on weird colors just to be on weird colors. Not even Daken is that weird (there's a clear purpose to his powers being on the colors they're on).

wymtime

I am really suprised at how much I have liked using She-Hulk in the most Trial by Combat and the last Heroic PVE. Her Blue was great against Daken and when I get 5 blue covers it will be even better against goons. I also really like using her red Power of Attorney after berseker rage. I was able to wait till I had lots of purple at the bottem of the board before I hit berzerker rage. With power of Attorney I got big AOE damage and usually destroyed an enemy strike tile. I don't know if I will sink HP into her but I definatly want to level her up. She is feeling like a really strong support character at least in PVE as can be very usable in PVP when buffed or with the right buffed characters.

Unknown

I used her a lot in the PVE. My standard team was Patch, Shulkie, and CStorm, and I'd usually hit green, red, and blue enough to let off a berserker rage, followed by a windstorm, followed by a power of attorney. Usually, if anyone was alive at the end of it, they were stunned by the windstorm, and easy to finish off.

I think she's a third-tier roll player, very useful against strike tiles, with one of the game's best red powers, but harder to work into a general-use team. She's fun to play with, but with a specialized blue and a weak green, she's not first tier or anything. She does make a nice meat shield boosted, though, since she has Ragnarok's hit points.

Phaserhawk

If her Green wasn't so god awful, she would actually be a decent character. Blue while, niche is pretty much useful anytime due to all special tiles nowadays, and the red, while not massive is still decent AoE dmg, and cascade, it's that green. If you knocked off 3-4 it would make her much more playable.

himatako

Her blue is awful as well though. While I like the idea, it just doesn't work. If it only targets enemy's special tiles it would have been so much better.
I doubt anyone will use her if they didn't force you like in the previous PvE.

NorthernPolarity

I still dont think shes that great. The last pve showcased the best case scenario for her: every match you were guaranteed either a countdown tile producer or daken/bullseye, so her blue always had a target. This isnt really the case in most pvps, where you see team comps like sentry hood featured that are completely special tileless. The pve also gave you a team comp where you didnt want to spam down your strike tiles asap (since patch wants you to save it until profitable): paired with any special tile generator like daken or bp, using her blue after your strike tiles are out on the board could do nothing since it might convert your tiles. She just seems too niche right now: like i said way back, you need to be using her on a team where you dont have any special tiles but against an opponent that can get the tiles out quickly in order for her blue to be actually good.

I think the 2 buffs that the 2 posts stated above in conjunction would make her a lot more viable and probably propel her into mid tier:
1. Lower greens ap cost by 3.
2. Make blue only target random enemy special tiles.

Of course we would have to wait many many months before this would ever be considered by d3. Hopefully their beloved metrics show how little she hulk is used in in the game.

famousfoxking

Well, I actually think every power should have *something* to do, if for no other reason that I hate watching an AP meter pulse and knowing I can't even use the power poorly. Settlement, Trickery and Snarky Remark should all do something even if the tiles they act on aren't present. Force Bubbles is a good example: if there are none, it will create some so that you can cast it again to some actual effect.

mischiefmaker

Lowering green's cost might actually make it worse -- I can't think of a situation where I'd want to cast it at all, so making it cheaper doesn't help, and making it cheaper makes it possible for the AI to cast it instead of...well, anything.

Making the blue only target enemy tiles would make her extremely playable, all by itself. 9 green + 9 blue = L3 Patch rage + Settlement = ~800 strike tiles and only 44 for enemy, which isn't game-ending by itself, but it's pretty darned good. Even without Patch, being assured of getting at least +280 in strike tiles (and maybe more, if you converted protect tiles) is nothing to sneeze at.

wymtime

In PVE when I played against Daken I would fire she hulk Blue then Berseker rage then Power of Attorney. I would get an extra 2 stike tiles. If she converted only enemy strike tiles she would be Patches new best friend.

himatako

The more I think about green, the more I feel that it should have been true healing instead. I mean, look at the skill's characteristics:
- High AP cost
- Competing with other powerful green powers.
- Unreliable side effect (depleting enemy's AP)

All of this just for fake healing isn't worth it. If it were true healing, it would be the only active true healing skill in the game (for now), which might justify the above characteristics. This would make choosing between using Reprieve or Call of Storm a tougher choice to make.

eidehua

himatako wrote:

The more I think about green, the more I feel that it should have been true healing instead. I mean, look at the skill's characteristics:
- High AP cost
- Competing with other powerful green powers.
- Unreliable side effect (depleting enemy's AP)

All of this just for fake healing isn't worth it. If it were true healing, it would be the only active true healing skill in the game (for now), which might justify the above characteristics. This would make choosing between using Reprieve or Call of Storm a tougher choice to make.

Spider Man Web Bandages: 12 Ap yellow
- High AP cost (same as she hulk)
- competes with Thunder Strike, Sacrifice, Battle Plan, Avengers Assemble (not as prominent as green but still potentially strong)
- no side effect besides more fake healing (with 3 web tiles out, aka 15 blue AP used stunning)

So why shouldn't spidey have true healing?

We won't get true healing unless it actually fits comic wise (apparently what they are going for).

himatako

eidehua wrote:

himatako wrote:

The more I think about green, the more I feel that it should have been true healing instead. I mean, look at the skill's characteristics:
- High AP cost
- Competing with other powerful green powers.
- Unreliable side effect (depleting enemy's AP)

All of this just for fake healing isn't worth it. If it were true healing, it would be the only active true healing skill in the game (for now), which might justify the above characteristics. This would make choosing between using Reprieve or Call of Storm a tougher choice to make.

Spider Man Web Bandages: 12 Ap yellow
- High AP cost (same as she hulk)
- competes with Thunder Strike, Sacrifice, Battle Plan, Avengers Assemble (not as prominent as green but still potentially strong)
- no side effect besides more fake healing (with 3 web tiles out, aka 15 blue AP used stunning)

So why shouldn't spidey have true healing?

We won't get true healing unless it actually fits comic wise (apparently what they are going for).

Good point. I don't use Spidey so I totally forgot about him. I thought BWO's heal was at 9 AP but apparently I was wrong and it is 11 AP which isn't that different from Reprieve.