*** She-Hulk (Modern) ***

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Comments

  • pasa_ wrote:
    You mean it would not stop at all until sink 24, possibly emptying the AP pool completely? That would work as a non-joke ability indeed unlike the current one. With just 2 random colors most chance is it does nothing worth noticing.

    Yeah, the color chosen will be randomly and keep picking new colors until it drains up to 24 total AP. If the enemy has less than 24 total AP it will always drain them all. You can still hit the dead colors but this should have a good chance to empty the other guy's AP pool under most cirucmstances, which I think is quite fair for paying 12 green AP.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    yeah. All She-Hulk is is a hybrid Falcon and Hulk with a hint of OBW. Her blue is a combination of Falcon's blue and yellow, but is an activated ability. Her red is a combo of Hulk's red and green, and her green is a combo of OBW's purple and blue. Here's the problem with She-Hulk, she does EVERYTHING!!!!, strike tiles, heals, steals AP, damages, creates cascasdes, washes windows, lots of hit points. The problem is she does none of them well. Her blue can be valuable, but you aren't going to go out of your way matching blue for it for a hopefully good situation. If it guarenteed stealing 3 from the enemy then yes, very good, but it's random and the only way to stop that is to not run strike tile, CD, or protect tile creators (no thanks). Her green is terribly random and does minimal heal at a hefty 12 AP, her one saving grace is red, while not massive amounts of upfront dmg, it does create a nice cascade which can net you some AP, and doing that kind of team dmg for 9AP is actually pretty good. She is a meat shield that no one will focus nor need to. I'm cool with her as you need to control power creep and she does that, and she does have her niche's and is unique in color combination, but she's too random and too reliant on the opposing player having something you can rely on.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    yeah. All She-Hulk is is a hybrid Falcon and Hulk with a hint of OBW. Her blue is a combination of Falcon's blue and yellow, but is an activated ability. Her red is a combo of Hulk's red and green, and her green is a combo of OBW's purple and blue. Here's the problem with She-Hulk, she does EVERYTHING!!!!, strike tiles, heals, steals AP, damages, creates cascasdes, washes windows, lots of hit points. The problem is she does none of them well. Her blue can be valuable, but you aren't going to go out of your way matching blue for it for a hopefully good situation. If it guarenteed stealing 3 from the enemy then yes, very good, but it's random and the only way to stop that is to not run strike tile, CD, or protect tile creators (no thanks). Her green is terribly random and does minimal heal at a hefty 12 AP, her one saving grace is red, while not massive amounts of upfront dmg, it does create a nice cascade which can net you some AP, and doing that kind of team dmg for 9AP is actually pretty good. She is a meat shield that no one will focus nor need to. I'm cool with her as you need to control power creep and she does that, and she does have her niche's and is unique in color combination, but she's too random and too reliant on the opposing player having something you can rely on.

    You are kind of in the right balkpark here with your assessment, but are slightly off.

    If you consider what role Jennifer Walters plays in the Marvel Universe, in her human form, then her powers completely make sense for what they do. Jennifer Walters is a defense lawyer, and as a result, all of her powers are designed to be defensive.

    Settlement: Outside of LDaken (who can simply overwhelm this with unlimited free strike tiles) and a green-spec'd Path (strike tiles everywhere), Settlement is the current ultimate strike tile mitigator, knocking out Sentry's Sacrifice, Psylocke's Psi-Blade (and her Black Psy-Katana's Attack tile as well), BP's Battleplan, and Punisher's Judgment, at as little as 3 in Blue. Upgrade to 5 Blue to effectively counter every CD tile user in the game (Except Sentry's World Rupture). Steve Roger's Red and Blue CD tiles? So sorry, man. IM40's Recharge tiles? Sucks to be him. Punisher's Molotov and BP's Defense Plan? Nope. The only way to overwhelm the potential of Settlement is to flood the board with tiles so that she cannot hope to clear them all.

    As fits the theme of her character, Settlement is best used in defense, where the player is holding onto the 9 Blue AP as insurance for "something bad" to happen on the board. Does the potential of this skill diminish when the player goes on offense and makes the first offensive moves? Yup. But, that's why she's a defense attorney and not a prosecutor.

    Reprieve: This is one is a bit more confusing to discern. Similar to the role of Psylocke Blue, in that the goal is to deplete the opponent's AP, the purpose of the skill is to provide a "Reprieve" right before something rather bad happens. Also, like Bewilder, this is pretty much a 5-Green-or-go-home skill. At 3 Green, the player only has a 1 in 6 chance of depleting the right AP color pull. That's just awful for 12 AP. At 5 Green, the odds increase to 1 in 3, as the 5th green cover offers a "second chance" at draining the right color pull with the 50% drain. Still, as a personal strong advocate of Psylocke Bewlider, I can't recommend this skill, even under this framework. At least with Bewilder, the player has a reasonable interpretation of what color would be stolen and can plan for attacking that color on their terms. With Repreive, the player is helplessly playing the odds, which are not great for a 4-match skill.

    If you love Reprieve, then Demiurge has some 10 and 42-packs to sell you on the shop page that are right up your alley.

    Power of Attorney: This is quite an effective skill, but as with most 3*** skills released nowadays, severely limited unless at 5 Red, and worthless below 3 Red. This is a very useful skill to clear the bottom of the board of impossible-to-reach tiles, or simply to juggle the board. At 9 Red AP, this skill embarrasses Mohawk Storm's Mistress of the Elements, as the damage is across all team members, and not just a single member. Add in cascade potential, especially at 5 Red covers, this skill is quite good without being excessively overpowering/game breaking.

    TL;DR: She-Hulk is a defensive character and excels in this role, in-line with her role in the Marvel Universe. Try to use her as an attacker, and you're going to have a bad time.
  • Settlement is quite good even when used by the AI as long as your team cannot generate special tiles. Aside from Daken and World Rupture which can flat overpower it (though you'll still get your 2 strike tiles in these cases), the AI will never use this ability if there are no special tiles out and about the absolutely worst case I can think of is say Human Torch does a Flame Jet at 5 green AP which gets immediately removed, and that's like paying 4 more blue AP for a strike tile which is a pretty reasonable deal. Almost any other exchange between special tile creators would be greatly in your favor.
  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    That's a pretty big if though. And it quickly loses effectiveness as the special tiles pile up. I'm sure there's someone doing the math somewhere, but annecdotally, it seems to be a crapshoot at actually mitigating anything useful even as low as 5 special tiles, total.
  • Spoit wrote:
    That's a pretty big if though. And it quickly loses effectiveness as the special tiles pile up. I'm sure there's someone doing the math somewhere, but annecdotally, it seems to be a crapshoot at actually mitigating anything useful even as low as 5 special tiles, total.

    Let's put a low value special tile as 50 strike (Daken creates 2 of them with higher strength) and we'll say She-Hulk's strike tile are 150 for you and 50 for them for round numbers.

    If you use Settlement with 1 low value tile it goes from +50 to them to +150 to you, for a +200 swing for 9 blue AP.
    If you use Settlement with 2 low value tiles it goes from +100 to them to +50 to them and +150 to you for the same +200 swing
    If you use Settlement with 3 low value tiles it goes from +150 to them to +50 to them and +300 to you, for a +400 swing.

    So you're getting a value of +400 strike tile equivalent when there are at least 3 special tiles, which puts it at around Judgment range, which is certainly a very respectable skill. Now, unlike Judgment you can't just use this whenever you want, but the value of Settlement also goes up if the other side have more valuable special tiles. Even without strike tiles, each CD on World Rupture does about 450 damage with minor cascade potential so that's equivalent of a 9 hit 50 strength strike tile, so it's still roughly inline with the 'low value special tile' assessment.

    Overall I'd say Settlement still loses to Judgment since they end up doing comparable effect but Judgment you don't have to wait for your opponent to do anything before you can use it and this game favors the aggressor in almost all circumstances. While negating a Judgment is a +550 swing, it's likely Judgment's initial +300 swing brings a far bigger impact unless you had a Settlement ready to use the moment an enemy Judgment is used.
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,714 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lyrian wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    TL;DR: She-Hulk is a defensive character and excels in this role, in-line with her role in the Marvel Universe. Try to use her as an attacker, and you're going to have a bad time.

    Fully agreed with this assessment. When I play against her in the sims, she is usually the last person I target. And I found that it still take me a few more turns to kill her even with her standing alone. Be it from her lucky reprieve, knocking out my COTS green, or her red generating good cascades giving her more green, or her tanky hp... she's just played by the AI really well.

    I don't expect her to win on defence but she can drag out games better than hulk, and She can cause much more msg to everyone in the team. I would.avoid her if I see a 166 she hulk in pvp
  • Power of Attorney is great for 9 ap. AoE plus chance for cascades make it reasonble.

    Reprieve is expensive. For such an expensive ability it ought to be more useful. By the time 12 green is obtained randomly taking 100percent of one color and 50 percent of another is useless. If the opponent has a large stash of AP it probably doesnt need ap of that color. If it does need the AP then the odds of it being targeted are unfavorable.

    Repreive at 5/5 should remove up to 3 of each color and restore 915 hp for 5 ap. As a defensive ability one needs to be able to access it quickly. Removing up to 3 ap of each color ought to eleminate an pending attack, and if not, ought to fortify the hp of allies enough to hopeully prepare them to survive a likely attack.

    Settlement is expensive. It targets special tiles, friend or foe. The cost of placing special tiles has already been paid, and more often than not, settlement is a bad deal for allies. If only opponents tiles were targeted it might be a good deal. Denying 3 special tiles owned by opponent is cool but that cant be relied on. Could be useful in pve if less expensive. At level 166 in pve goons generate coundowns quickly, cheaply, and are very dangerous. This ability is not very good at dealing with cd's. Due to the risk to ones own special tiles, and because as player obtains special tiles by this ability, it becomes less useful on subsequent uses, it ought to be 5 ap.
  • Having played around with She-Hulk in this PvE, I have to say I like using her. I'm missing the fifth cover on Power of Attorney, but it's solid. The extra bit of board shake from that last cover should make it even better. Settlement is actually really useful for goon/villain hybrid fights. It can't keep up with most three goon teams, but there's a lot of cases in the hybrid battles where you can wait on having three countdowns on the board before you use it and get max value out of it. Okay against Bullseye or Daken, both together is too much again. Her green is trash, just so iffy in every way.

    Still trying to find the right friends for her. Lazy Thor is always a viable option, and you can easily pass on his red for hers. Hulk works too for extra board shake and eating occasional attacks for Anger. Tried Loki for Illusions, not sure I love it. Tried MNMags to fuel Settlement, also just okay. Probably try some other oddball combos tomorrow for the hell of it.
  • If you're willing to risk losing the strike tiles, punisher is good partner. One or two moltov Cocktails with Power of attorney modified by punisher strike tiles is very nice. Using Settlement on opponent special tiles before using punisher judgement is okay. I still think settlement is very expensive option. The cost doesn't justify the risk.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bugpop wrote:
    If you're willing to risk losing the strike tiles, punisher is good partner. One or two moltov Cocktails with Power of attorney modified by punisher strike tiles is very nice. Using Settlement on opponent special tiles before using punisher judgement is okay. I still think settlement is very expensive option. The cost doesn't justify the risk.

    You also realize she can convert attack tiles and CD tiles too if you max her out. So you could cast Molotov cocktail and she will turn those attack tiles and the Molotov CD tile into attack tiles as well.
  • I'm thinking of building her as 5/3/5. There are better green than her green imo.
  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Baltias wrote:
    I'm thinking of building her as 5/3/5. There are no worse greens than her green imo.
    Fixed that for ya
  • locked wrote:
    Baltias wrote:
    I'm thinking of building her as 5/3/5. There are no worse greens than her green imo.
    Fixed that for ya

    Ah well, I was trying to be nice once in a while. icon_lol.gif
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Bugpop wrote:
    If you're willing to risk losing the strike tiles, punisher is good partner. One or two moltov Cocktails with Power of attorney modified by punisher strike tiles is very nice. Using Settlement on opponent special tiles before using punisher judgement is okay. I still think settlement is very expensive option. The cost doesn't justify the risk.

    You also realize she can convert attack tiles and CD tiles too if you max her out. So you could cast Molotov cocktail and she will turn those attack tiles and the Molotov CD tile into attack tiles as well.

    Sure, but i would rather wait to use moltov cocktail until i have strike tiles out.

    Im40 with 1/5 recharge is pretty handy. 3/5 recharge is good too. I like to use single boosts to make it easier to get required ap. Like 1 red/yellow so that i only need 3 yellow matches for level 3 recharge. 2 black/green make jugdement and moltov cocktail easier to get. I only use them to help me in the more challenging fights.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    She-Hulk's good for her Red skill, that's about it.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    She-Hulk's good for her Red skill, that's about it.
    I think you're selling Settlement short. I'm not going to go to bat for Reprieve, it's ****. The issue with Settlement is it severely limits who you can use with her, because so many characters rely on special tiles, mostly strikes, to get it done. Without strikes you need hard hitters backing her up. The more I play around with her the more I like Lazy Thor as her partner. LT's red is marginal unless you've got a board full of yellow, so most of the time you can use PoA. Her green is ****, his is death incarnate, and his yellow is the tops.

    So that leaves black and purple. Purple's hard to find, but you could plug in GSBW to accelerate greenpocalypse, or BP for his black, another hard hitter. Captain Marvel might end up as a good option too for her black, and her red could combo with Settlement in some fights. Use CM's red to blast a few protect tiles (Bullseye, I'm looking at you) and then Settlement takes out 3 strikes and countdowns. She-Hulk isn't going to work on a lot of teams, but Settlement really isn't a bad power. It just takes a little finesse to leverage it to your advantage.

    And again, I'm talking mostly about PvE here. In PvP, I think she's pretty questionable all around. As above, her blue puts her in conflict with most of the top PvP characters. On defense her green is a massive liability unless you roll without another powerful green user ( icon_eek.gif ), and firing her blue off as soon as it comes up, as the AI is want to do, is almost never the right move.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thugpatrol wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    She-Hulk's good for her Red skill, that's about it.
    I think you're selling Settlement short. I'm not going to go to bat for Reprieve, it's ****. The issue with Settlement is it severely limits who you can use with her, because so many characters rely on special tiles, mostly strikes, to get it done. Without strikes you need hard hitters backing her up. The more I play around with her the more I like Lazy Thor as her partner. LT's red is marginal unless you've got a board full of yellow, so most of the time you can use PoA. Her green is ****, his is death incarnate, and his yellow is the tops.

    So that leaves black and purple. Purple's hard to find, but you could plug in GSBW to accelerate greenpocalypse, or BP for his black, another hard hitter. Captain Marvel might end up as a good option too for her black, and her red could combo with Settlement in some fights. Use CM's red to blast a few protect tiles (Bullseye, I'm looking at you) and then Settlement takes out 3 strikes and countdowns. She-Hulk isn't going to work on a lot of teams, but Settlement really isn't a bad power. It just takes a little finesse to leverage it to your advantage.

    And again, I'm talking mostly about PvE here. In PvP, I think she's pretty questionable all around. As above, her blue puts her in conflict with most of the top PvP characters. On defense her green is a massive liability unless you roll without another powerful green user ( icon_eek.gif ), and firing her blue off as soon as it comes up, as the AI is want to do, is almost never the right move.

    Agreed on all counts. Yes Settlement can be out right game breaking if played correctly. And I do think you can run her with a strike tile creator, but about the only one you can do it with is Daken. At worst you have 2 tiles out and you get one and the opposing player gets one. You still end up slightly ahead using Settlement if this happens. If you have three or more you end up favorably on offense and with Daken you can potentially absorb some of the dmg. The issue would be more on the defensive end as the AI would use Chemical Reaction over Settlement, but then again that's probably not bad since the AI will cast settlement the first chance it can get. At least with Daken you are getting strike tiles in the process. The question would be what is the third member you run to max her out? I would opt not to use a red user as She-Hulk's red is really good, but you only have red/blue covered at this point since green is terrible. Which puts you back into Thor, again not bad, the AI will use Mjolinir's Might on defensive unless you can go from 5,6,7 red AP straight to 9 or more than the AI might use Power of Attorney. So you would give up purple and black. You could try Sentry as another possibility and with She-Hulk and Daken's regen rate you can recover fairly quickly. This could actually be good with Settlement as if you cast World Rupture and then Settlement you may convert 3 of your cd tiles. However losing three cd tiles to gain 336 in strike tile dmg would more than out weigh the loss of three tiles. Hmmmm I might have to try this. And until we can get a red/purple/black user (oh i so wish Psylocke's blue was purple) this could work.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,725 Chairperson of the Boards
    What do you think about She-Hulk as a PVE specialist. With all the goons in unstable ISO and all the countdown tiles I can see her blue as an awsome ability. You pair her with MMN to create lots of Blue AP to cast settlement. You would have She-Hulk's power of attorney to destroy the bottom of the board and do AOE damage. I am then thinking Thor, or BP would then fill out the rest of the team. You are missing a green hammer with BP but with settlement and AOE abilities you might not really need it.
  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    wymtime wrote:
    What do you think about She-Hulk as a PVE specialist. With all the goons in unstable ISO and all the countdown tiles I can see her blue as an awsome ability. You pair her with MMN to create lots of Blue AP to cast settlement. You would have She-Hulk's power of attorney to destroy the bottom of the board and do AOE damage. I am then thinking Thor, or BP would then fill out the rest of the team. You are missing a green hammer with BP but with settlement and AOE abilities you might not really need it.
    Problem is that OBW would still probably be more useful.