Pvp cyber bullying

veny

PvP is about beating players, especially the weak ones (as long as they give points)... deal with it or play PvE only...
I also gave up the thinking about getting 4*s from PvE progress loot cuz i was no able to get above 800 points.
575 pts are way easy to get and it is a good reward for time spent.

Pants1000

No

I may have been targeted once or twice for double-tapping, but not recently.  It would be nice if the developers made some changes so you couldn't see names or made it so you couldn't queue someone that you've beaten in the last hour.  For the most part though, what I see is just expected behavior in a game where people are supposed to attack each other.

Stick

It's aggressive behaviour, sure. But it's only cyber-bullying if they attack you personally. So, private messages and the like.

Borstock

I didn't know this existed until I heard how alliances will "retaliate" against players they feel has hit one of their players too often. 

I do try to avoid hitting the same player too many times in a single session, but sometimes the game only gives me three teams to hit at all. When one of those teams is way weaker than the other two and I'm 100 pts or so away from 900, what am I supposed to do? 

I try to be considerate. When that's impossible, I get over it. 

Blergh

Have you read the definition of Bully? It's quite interesting when viewed with how PVP operates in this game. 

BULLY.

NOUN

1. a person who uses strength or influence to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.
   "he is a ranting, domineering bully"
   
   

VERB

1. use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something
   

So the dictionary definition has nothing to do with being a personal attack.  It doesn't even have to be an attack. It's just making them feel daunted, or discouraged to do something .  In this thread alone there are a number of replies that say they focus on PVE which gives the claim some credence, don't you think? If they didn't feel intimidated or discouraged why would they avoid PVP?

Sure, those of you who are stronger can justify your actions, and even quite rightly - that the game forces you to oppress or target weaker teams to progress. But that doesn't really negate the other person's feelings or their sense that they are being targeted. As they are.  And if you see one persons name pop up more then twice in quick succession or a lot of people from the same alliance have run over you, it can feel vindictive and personal. Especially to people not connected to the whole Line/Forum culture. 

I mean how many new posters have you seen here that have come to ask if they've upset someone?  I've seen three I can remember, and I've never frequent visitor to the forums, even when I played the game. Think most of them were redirected to the hints and tips forum lately if you actually want to trawl through and count.  I simply don't care enough to do so. 

I think the outside communication used through check rooms compounds the problem for those not part of that culture in two ways. Firstly, it narrows the people that are being hit in a slice, as if you are not in a check room you're fairer game and always readily available. Secondly, you'd be unaware of the fact that some alliances climb in waves as they wait for team mates to shield, and as the people feeling bullied are weaker -  they will most probably be hit by each climber in the alliance without being targeted by the alliance themselves.  But it will still look and feel like the attacks have been coordinated against the player. I've actually seen that happen. 

I don't think the issue is whether or not your intentionally setting out to bully other players (as no one is). I think the issue is that some players feel intimidated to play aspects of the game. That players are feeling bullied, are daunted or discouraged to play or take part. Are made to feel weak. Isn't exclusion a form of bullying in itself? And those hit the worst by this are those that are deemed the outsiders to the community, who wouldn't have the knowledge or ability to rationalize it. And that these players are going to be those newer to the game too maybe.  

FokaiHI

No

Who has been beaten by a lesser roster? I have. I retaliate knowing that that person will also reataliate. I also know when doing this he or she will eventually lose. It will also cost them HP. Tactics like that I see as deterrents, not bullying and are fair game. 

I always look at my opponents roster to know what I am getting into. I also notice the alliance as well because I am pretty much solo. So when I attack certain players of certain alliances, I'm prepared to get hit. That's when you shield. 

purplemur

tone deaf much?

this thread is pretty harsh with the "just deal with it/go play PvE/bully deniers. We should be aware of the community response to the idea of cyber bullying. Kids are committing suicide because of online bullies and harassment. It's real. it happens through a broad spectrum of online interactions and it is devastating.
Because of MPQ? i dunno, maybe, it could happen. What kind of toxic dump would the forum be if we were just like "pssst whatevs, I don't care, deal with it!"?! We would be like the RUST community; a cesspit of foulness and nastiness that should only be reserved for Jar-Jar, and 4chan spammers. A rep that keeps people from playing the game.
If we showed a micron of care about this issue as we did for suspected cheaters and the ToS this thread could have been helpful and uplifting. I don't think the OP was even trying to insinuate anything, just starting a discussion. A discussion that went sourly reactionist like the whole idea is just whining.

-What do you think cyber bullying would be? lets try and come up with a community standard and have some measure to gauge against. 

-What should a player do if they think they are being bullied? =report that tinykitty! yea but how? is the forum the place, i dunno, maybe, lets have a mods opinion: How you gonna be all up in the biz about posts being in the wrong sub but let issues like this ghost?
-A responding post said they get personal hate messages, and multiple posts about specific players have allready been created. that seems like a pattern of bullying. 
-How do you even hit a player multiple times in a row? seems like targeting.
- Alliances colluding on LINE to name and "punish" players for perceived transgressions is pretty close to the definition:

Victims of cyberbullying may not know the identity of their bully, or why the bully is targeting them. The harassment can have wide-reaching effects on the victim, as the content used to harass the victim can be spread and shared easily among many people and often remains accessible for a long time after the initial incident

Yep, villains gonna villain, but we don't need to collectively accept Leroy Jenkins attitude and act like we are headshotting prols who shouldn't even be in the room if they can't hang with the Alphas!
 Thats such a 2000's regressive paradigm; We can do better. Make PvP FUN again!

BlackWidower

sh81 said:

I should say though, similar to a post higher up, I could well be double or tripple tapping people and be completely oblivious to the fact.

I take no notice of who Im playing at all, genuinely not even sure where to look, I just play through until I reach 575.  Sometimes I skip a match if its one I know Ill lose, but thats it.

I even warned my alliance, look, if I attack you in PVP, I am sorry, not all that used to looking, either.  And a couple PVPVs back, it seems like there was about 15 "winfinite" teams, (that I can totally beat) and I lost count of what their names were after a while.  It's easy to do.

grunth13

So is it considered bullying if you have been hitting a certain group over and over for months,  but now they have had enough and have decided to do the same? 

Spudgutter

purplemur said:

If we showed a micron of care about this issue as we did for suspected cheaters and the ToS this thread could have been helpful and uplifting. I don't think the OP was even trying to insinuate anything, just starting a discussion. A discussion that went sourly reactionist like the whole idea is just whining.

-What do you think cyber bullying would be? lets try and come up with a community standard and have some measure to gauge against. 

-What should a player do if they think they are being bullied? =report that tinykitty! yea but how? is the forum the place, i dunno, maybe, lets have a mods opinion: How you gonna be all up in the biz about posts being in the wrong sub but let issues like this ghost? 

This thread is in response to another thread.  The other thread got shut down and locked pretty quick by a mod.  Personally, i take that action as a mod response to the whole issue.  
You also bring up a good point about how some on the forum keep flogging other threads that may not indirectly impact them, and yet are dismissive of this issue.  I don't have anything to add to the good points you made there, i just wanted to reiterate it lol

And for those that only play to the CP level at 575, you probably aren't even on the radar of the type of people that take this stuff super seriously.  

I'm glad this doesn't happen as often as it used to, but i believe it is still happening and should be addressed and curbed.  I'm all for the anonymous pvp.  Or at least be able to flag friendly names to keep them out of your queue.  They really should revamp it all together.

animaniactoo

I saw the original thread. It's the first I've heard of this - but one of the things I noted was that one of the accused alliance members was saying it was a misunderstanding and to pm them to work it out if they wanted. I honestly found that curious because hey - this person is feeling picked on by you/your alliance? Why don't you just say out there on the thread, "no harm meant, but np, we'll try not to hit you anymore, don't hit us and we'll call it square going forward"? Why do they have to pm people they're trying to get away from in order to resolve it?

I guess what I'm most curious about is what they're supposed to do if they feel they're being targeted? How are they supposed to document it and who are they supposed to report it to? Because I can understand that an open call in the forum isn't the right thing (unless they've tried the official route and gotten nowhere and are looking to publicize an issue) - but I'd like to know if they're supposed to file a ticket with CS or what about it? And how would they know that is the route to go? Because I try not to go to CS unless it's a game mechanics issue where something's gone wrong and I need them to fix something for me. I don't know that CS would be an obvious route for most people on the same basis.

A_Wise_Man

Yes ....I have been single out

This is exactly the issue with this game.  See, the problem isn't pvp attacks.  The problem is there are alliances and groups of alliances that feel they should be immune to attacks in a pvp game.  If you happen to hit them (which is impossible to avoid in the 5* tier if you actually want to play pvp), they will retaliate in force by losing on purpose to dump points away and then hitting you over and over and over.  They will cry and whine all day if you hit them once, but think it's ok to brutalize you just for playing the game.  
    Is this effective?  Sure.  Lots of the leaderboard alliances at the top do this and end up placing very high.  But that doesn't mean its not intimidation or bullying.  Some of these guys even take on mob names (theres one guy named after enforcers that the mafia used to use.  There's a whole alliance named after the mafia, too).  You can't tell me it's not thug tactics.  I just try to play for some command points and some iso.  I play in the 4th slot a lot and those guys are real jerks.  They want to score 3,000 points ,which is way too high, bit they don't want you to get to 900.  It's just not fair.  I just recently championed starlord and banner because I thought that would be a good team.  They're good 5 stars  and I do ok, but I get hit too much. Something needs to be done about these groups, and fast!

BlackWidower

Spudgutter said:

 Or at least be able to flag friendly names to keep them out of your queue.  They really should revamp it all together.

Speaking of which.  It's dumb that you should be even able to attack one of your own alliance.  They shouldn't come up at all.

animaniactoo

A_Wise_Man said:

This is exactly the issue with this game.  See, the problem isn't pvp attacks.  The problem is there are alliances and groups of alliances that feel they should be immune to attacks in a pvp game.  If you happen to hit them (which is impossible to avoid in the 5* tier if you actually want to play pvp), they will retaliate in force by losing on purpose to dump points away and then hitting you over and over and over.  They will cry and whine all day if you hit them once, but think it's ok to brutalize you just for playing the game.  
    Is this effective?  Sure.  Lots of the leaderboard alliances at the top do this and end up placing very high.  But that doesn't mean its not intimidation or bullying.  Some of these guys even take on mob names (theres one guy named after enforcers that the mafia used to use.  There's a whole alliance named after the mafia, too).  You can't tell me it's not thug tactics.  I just try to play for some command points and some iso.  I play in the 4th slot a lot and those guys are real jerks.  They want to score 3,000 points ,which is way too high, bit they don't want you to get to 900.  It's just not fair.  I just recently championed starlord and banner because I thought that would be a good team.  They're good 5 stars  and I do ok, but I get hit too much. Something needs to be done about these groups, and fast!

Interestingly, this is exactly how I saw playing PVP being discussed in another thread, about leaving out trapcakes, and alliances coordinating to do that and using that to gain themselves points. Which leaves me to wonder if it's a purposeful plan to target someone or someone falling for the trapcakes without being targeted but ending up feeling picked on.

lokiagentofhotness

It's called player vs player. If you don't want to get hit, I suggest you play dpd or PVE. 

revskip

No

animaniactoo said:

I saw the original thread. It's the first I've heard of this - but one of the things I noted was that one of the accused alliance members was saying it was a misunderstanding and to pm them to work it out if they wanted. I honestly found that curious because hey - this person is feeling picked on by you/your alliance? Why don't you just say out there on the thread, "no harm meant, but np, we'll try not to hit you anymore, don't hit us and we'll call it square going forward"? Why do they have to pm people they're trying to get away from in order to resolve it?

I guess what I'm most curious about is what they're supposed to do if they feel they're being targeted? How are they supposed to document it and who are they supposed to report it to? Because I can understand that an open call in the forum isn't the right thing (unless they've tried the official route and gotten nowhere and are looking to publicize an issue) - but I'd like to know if they're supposed to file a ticket with CS or what about it? And how would they know that is the route to go? Because I try not to go to CS unless it's a game mechanics issue where something's gone wrong and I need them to fix something for me. I don't know that CS would be an obvious route for most people on the same basis.

The issue really is that there is a disconnect between what some people feel like is normal hitting and others feel like is bullying.  Truth is if your roster is at the 3* or  below level you aren't being bullied you simply don't have a roster that can compete in PVP.  Whether or not that means that PVP needs changing is a completely separate topic,  

In any PVP arena there are going to be  bigger rosters chewing on smaller rosters.  It is inherent in the PVP model and no amount of teeth gnashing or indignance is going to make that go away.  It is the very nature of the mode.  

If you are feeling bullied by PVP you probably need to check at least some of your privilege at the door.  

I have a solid 4* roster.  I routinely get smacked down in slice 5 PVP if I don't time my shield hops well.  I do coordinate outside of the game using Line to do so, as do most of the top scorers in my slices/brackets.  If you don't do so you will be behind the 8 ball.  

I don't think that is an indictment of the entire system, merely a cautionary tale.  If you want top level rewards you better be willing to put in the extra time and resources to make that happen.  If not you get the rewards that less time and commitment warrant.  

During the offseason for instance I am a frequent lurker, I get to 900 and get out without any real commitment. I don't begrudge those hitting top rewards because I don't put in nearly the time and effort during those events that top scorers are putting in.  

In order to reap the rewards at the top of the pyramid the people fighting for those rewards put in serious time and commitment.  If you want those same rewards you should be willing/able to put forth that same commitment or otherwise be okay with lesser rewards.  

TPF Alexis

No

This is more about the design of the PvP system than anything else, but it does seem strange to me to have a system that requires other programs and out-of-game resources to do well.

Or, to put it another way, a number of people in this thread have emphasized that it's supposed to be Player vs. Player. What we end up seeing at more than the lowest levels of competition seems not to be Player vs. Player, but Group of Alliances vs. Group of Alliances at best, and if anyone stumbles into that level without somehow learning about that system, Group of Alliances vs. Player.

Alsmir

Yes ....I have been single out

Ofc it happens. Sure, you most likely need to visit certain LINE rooms to be aware of that or simply go beyond "just deal with it" attitude, but it happens.

I'm not sure if bullying describes it that well, but it's a fact that there are players who take PvP very seriously, who might ruin your scores for entire season, because of slightest misunderstanding.

Beer40

TPF Alexis said:

This is more about the design of the PvP system than anything else, but it does seem strange to me to have a system that requires other programs and out-of-game resources to do well.

Or, to put it another way, a number of people in this thread have emphasized that it's supposed to be Player vs. Player. What we end up seeing at more than the lowest levels of competition seems not to be Player vs. Player, but Group of Alliances vs. Group of Alliances at best, and if anyone stumbles into that level without somehow learning about that system, Group of Alliances vs. Player.

I don't use out-of-game resources and I feel I do fairly well. Actually, I think if out-of-game collusion wasn't allowed, then I would actually do better.

That's got me thinking about all the people that claim PVP is broken. Maybe its broken because of all the out of game collusion? It wouldn't surprise me in the least bit.

animaniactoo

revskip said:

animaniactoo said:

I saw the original thread. It's the first I've heard of this - but one of the things I noted was that one of the accused alliance members was saying it was a misunderstanding and to pm them to work it out if they wanted. I honestly found that curious because hey - this person is feeling picked on by you/your alliance? Why don't you just say out there on the thread, "no harm meant, but np, we'll try not to hit you anymore, don't hit us and we'll call it square going forward"? Why do they have to pm people they're trying to get away from in order to resolve it?

I guess what I'm most curious about is what they're supposed to do if they feel they're being targeted? How are they supposed to document it and who are they supposed to report it to? Because I can understand that an open call in the forum isn't the right thing (unless they've tried the official route and gotten nowhere and are looking to publicize an issue) - but I'd like to know if they're supposed to file a ticket with CS or what about it? And how would they know that is the route to go? Because I try not to go to CS unless it's a game mechanics issue where something's gone wrong and I need them to fix something for me. I don't know that CS would be an obvious route for most people on the same basis.

The issue really is that there is a disconnect between what some people feel like is normal hitting and others feel like is bullying.  Truth is if your roster is at the 3* or  below level you aren't being bullied you simply don't have a roster that can compete in PVP.  Whether or not that means that PVP needs changing is a completely separate topic,  

In any PVP arena there are going to be  bigger rosters chewing on smaller rosters.  It is inherent in the PVP model and no amount of teeth gnashing or indignance is going to make that go away.  It is the very nature of the mode.  

If you are feeling bullied by PVP you probably need to check at least some of your privilege at the door.  

I have a solid 4* roster.  I routinely get smacked down in slice 5 PVP if I don't time my shield hops well.  I do coordinate outside of the game using Line to do so, as do most of the top scorers in my slices/brackets.  If you don't do so you will be behind the 8 ball.  

I don't think that is an indictment of the entire system, merely a cautionary tale.  If you want top level rewards you better be willing to put in the extra time and resources to make that happen.  If not you get the rewards that less time and commitment warrant.  

During the offseason for instance I am a frequent lurker, I get to 900 and get out without any real commitment. I don't begrudge those hitting top rewards because I don't put in nearly the time and effort during those events that top scorers are putting in.  

In order to reap the rewards at the top of the pyramid the people fighting for those rewards put in serious time and commitment.  If you want those same rewards you should be willing/able to put forth that same commitment or otherwise be okay with lesser rewards.  

To a large extent what you're saying makes sense. On the other hand, it's also a very screwed up system for newer players who would like to play PVP. At the very least the SCL levels should mean something that would allow them to pit themselves against players on a similar level. Otherwise, it's pretty much meaningless.

Top level rewards - eh, if you can play consistently and beat lots of teams, you shouldn't need to coordinate outside of the game to do it. If that's the only way to do it, I do feel that the system is fundamentally broken.