How many vaulted characters have you champed?

Fightmastermpq

jgomes32 said:

Fightmastermpq said:

jgomes32 said:

I'm not sure. Nova, GH, Thor, Deadpool, maybe Rhulk. Anyway, i'm about to champ 4* #28 (Coulson) and would like to champ either Moon Knight (from Sentry champ level) or Peggy from her pvp cover. Both were among those great characters i never had luck on pulls.. But why should i champ Peggy or Mk with one extra cover vs Iron Fist (latest 12 and upcoming pve reward), C&D, Gamora or Groot?

Vaulting can actually be a good system, but you'd need all those 12 champed first. I need a double iso to catch up...

You don't need double ISO.  You need to STOP champing vaulted characters that you won't ever pull a cover for.  If instead of champing Nova, GH, Thor, Deadpool, and Rulk you had champed C4rol, Medusa, Coulson, C4ge and Fist you would be raking in the champ rewards with every 4* you pull from a token, and be just as competitive if not more.

I'd say inefficiently is a bit subjective and maybe even contradictory to the "play how you want" you said. In that case there's no wrong way really. And i have been focusing on those 12. Starting Fist soon and after that only C&D, Gamora and Groot left. With 20+ 4* left to champ i think it's fair to "claim" that i could use a little more iso....I'm not demanding or feeling entitled to more iso here, just saying a double iso would be nice at this point. Relax.

OJSP with Red Hulk mentioned by name and Gweepool on the latest 12 GH can only be Ghost Rider.

I'm sorry, but no - it's not subjective or contradictory at all.  The mechanics dictate the optimal strategy, not your opinion.  You will draw infinitely more covers for the newest 12 from tokens than from vaulted characters, and so champing a vaulted character over a new one drastically reduces the champ rewards you will get from future pulls.  It's inefficient use of your ISO.  And if you don't care about that because you just have to have that Nova or Rulk champed then you are free to play that way.  But don't act like your choice to spend ISO inefficiently represents an ISO shortage in the game.  It doesn't.

DesertTortoise

On the day vaulting was implemented I had 10 4-star champs, I've got 25 now. 

Excluding people who were ever in the Token 12, I champed:
Jean Grey
Moon Knight
Nova
Star-Lord

I have plenty of the vaulted characters at 13/13 covers but the Token 12 take priority to make sure none of their covers go to waste. 

jgomes32

I feel like there's a grey area between "a double iso would be nice" and "iso shortage". I don't regret nor have I complain about my champ choices. Think in a way I even agree with you as I said I'm skipping Peggy and MK to focus on the remaining 4 latest 12... Focusing on those last 12 is clearly the most effective way to progress right now.  Doesn't mean I have to like it. 

BoyWonder1914

Fightmastermpq said:

jgomes32 said:

Fightmastermpq said:

jgomes32 said:

I'm not sure. Nova, GH, Thor, Deadpool, maybe Rhulk. Anyway, i'm about to champ 4* #28 (Coulson) and would like to champ either Moon Knight (from Sentry champ level) or Peggy from her pvp cover. Both were among those great characters i never had luck on pulls.. But why should i champ Peggy or Mk with one extra cover vs Iron Fist (latest 12 and upcoming pve reward), C&D, Gamora or Groot?

Vaulting can actually be a good system, but you'd need all those 12 champed first. I need a double iso to catch up...

You don't need double ISO.  You need to STOP champing vaulted characters that you won't ever pull a cover for.  If instead of champing Nova, GH, Thor, Deadpool, and Rulk you had champed C4rol, Medusa, Coulson, C4ge and Fist you would be raking in the champ rewards with every 4* you pull from a token, and be just as competitive if not more.

I'd say inefficiently is a bit subjective and maybe even contradictory to the "play how you want" you said. In that case there's no wrong way really. And i have been focusing on those 12. Starting Fist soon and after that only C&D, Gamora and Groot left. With 20+ 4* left to champ i think it's fair to "claim" that i could use a little more iso....I'm not demanding or feeling entitled to more iso here, just saying a double iso would be nice at this point. Relax.

OJSP with Red Hulk mentioned by name and Gweepool on the latest 12 GH can only be Ghost Rider.

I'm sorry, but no - it's not subjective or contradictory at all.  The mechanics dictate the optimal strategy, not your opinion.  You will draw infinitely more covers for the newest 12 from tokens than from vaulted characters, and so champing a vaulted character over a new one drastically reduces the champ rewards you will get from future pulls.  It's inefficient use of your ISO.  And if you don't care about that because you just have to have that Nova or Rulk champed then you are free to play that way.  But don't act like your choice to spend ISO inefficiently represents an ISO shortage in the game.  It doesn't.

Misconceptions here: 

1.) Champion level rewards >>> FINALLY champing someone vaulted that you value highly

All champ level rewards are the same for the 4-star tier, and there will always be 12 people that you have increased odds on. Just because I don't get them from Gwen Pool while she's featured in packs doesn't mean I can't get them from Coulson, or someone else who's in there. People like Nova, RHulk, and Peggy still bring great skill sets that add value to a roster. No one's going to pass up the opportunity to champ these characters just because there might still be someone in the latest 12 that they haven't gotten to yet. You champed em all and have moved on to other characters? Whoopty-doo for a guy like you! But you don't get the right to tell someone that they're using their resources "inefficiently" just because of YOUR preferences. I find it absolutely hilarious that you continue to tell people that they can "play how they want", and yet you're the FIRST person to jump at the opportunity to put someone down when they do exactly that. 

2.) People care what YOU think the "optimal strategy" is

Why do you get so up in arms about how other people who have absolutely nothing to do with you play the game? Like seriously, what difference does it make to you if some random person wants to place a higher value on some vaulted 4s? It's legitimately none of your business, yet you consistently shoot down people that say things that contradict your play style.....just because. 

3.) "Constructive" criticism with disrespect mixed in doesn't count as constructive

ESPECIALLY when you're confusing the issue from the get-go. All the person said is "more ISO would be nice", and you took it level 100 by not only criticizing the person's champ choices, but going as far as to put word in their mouth regarding implications of how much ISO the game gives out. It costs the same amount of iso to champ every 4-star character. Just because a particular character might net you champ rewards faster than another, doesn't mean that other character won't eventually net you those rewards. Once a person champs the latest 12 they have no choice but to go back to vaulted people anyway, so your "efficiency" argument doesn't even hold water. 

Punisher5784

I champed 3 vaulted characters since the change: XFW, Nova and Moonknight.

Wolverine I chased since day 1 and even though he's a shell of his former self, I wanted to finally accomplish this. Moonknight I just missed covering before he left Latest 12 but I scored his 13th cover shortly after and he was boosted. Nova was my first 4* BH and I was able to finish him due to Thanos Boss rewards. I don't regret champing either Nova or MK.

I have Carnage fully covered and lvl 166 so I'll champion him eventually since he works well with Medusa, but as of right now only Latest 12 get my ISO.

Fightmastermpq

BoyWonder1914 said:

Fightmastermpq said:

jgomes32 said:

Fightmastermpq said:

jgomes32 said:

I'm not sure. Nova, GH, Thor, Deadpool, maybe Rhulk. Anyway, i'm about to champ 4* #28 (Coulson) and would like to champ either Moon Knight (from Sentry champ level) or Peggy from her pvp cover. Both were among those great characters i never had luck on pulls.. But why should i champ Peggy or Mk with one extra cover vs Iron Fist (latest 12 and upcoming pve reward), C&D, Gamora or Groot?

Vaulting can actually be a good system, but you'd need all those 12 champed first. I need a double iso to catch up...

You don't need double ISO.  You need to STOP champing vaulted characters that you won't ever pull a cover for.  If instead of champing Nova, GH, Thor, Deadpool, and Rulk you had champed C4rol, Medusa, Coulson, C4ge and Fist you would be raking in the champ rewards with every 4* you pull from a token, and be just as competitive if not more.

I'd say inefficiently is a bit subjective and maybe even contradictory to the "play how you want" you said. In that case there's no wrong way really. And i have been focusing on those 12. Starting Fist soon and after that only C&D, Gamora and Groot left. With 20+ 4* left to champ i think it's fair to "claim" that i could use a little more iso....I'm not demanding or feeling entitled to more iso here, just saying a double iso would be nice at this point. Relax.

OJSP with Red Hulk mentioned by name and Gweepool on the latest 12 GH can only be Ghost Rider.

I'm sorry, but no - it's not subjective or contradictory at all.  The mechanics dictate the optimal strategy, not your opinion.  You will draw infinitely more covers for the newest 12 from tokens than from vaulted characters, and so champing a vaulted character over a new one drastically reduces the champ rewards you will get from future pulls.  It's inefficient use of your ISO.  And if you don't care about that because you just have to have that Nova or Rulk champed then you are free to play that way.  But don't act like your choice to spend ISO inefficiently represents an ISO shortage in the game.  It doesn't.

Misconceptions here: 

1.) Champion level rewards >>> FINALLY champing someone vaulted that you value highly

All champ level rewards are the same for the 4-star tier, and there will always be 12 people that you have increased odds on. Just because I don't get them from Gwen Pool while she's featured in packs doesn't mean I can't get them from Coulson, or someone else who's in there. People like Nova, RHulk, and Peggy still bring great skill sets that add value to a roster. No one's going to pass up the opportunity to champ these characters just because there might still be someone in the latest 12 that they haven't gotten to yet. You champed em all and have moved on to other characters? Whoopty-doo for a guy like you! But you don't get the right to tell someone that they're using their resources "inefficiently" just because of YOUR preferences. I find it absolutely hilarious that you continue to tell people that they can "play how they want", and yet you're the FIRST person to jump at the opportunity to put someone down when they do exactly that. 

2.) People care what YOU think the "optimal strategy" is

Why do you get so up in arms about how other people who have absolutely nothing to do with you play the game? Like seriously, what difference does it make to you if some random person wants to place a higher value on some vaulted 4s? It's legitimately none of your business, yet you consistently shoot down people that say things that contradict your play style.....just because. 

3.) "Constructive" criticism with disrespect mixed in doesn't count as constructive

ESPECIALLY when you're confusing the issue from the get-go. All the person said is "more ISO would be nice", and you took it level 100 by not only criticizing the person's champ choices, but going as far as to put word in their mouth regarding implications of how much ISO the game gives out. It costs the same amount of iso to champ every 4-star character. Just because a particular character might net you champ rewards faster than another, doesn't mean that other character won't eventually net you those rewards. Once a person champs the latest 12 they have no choice but to go back to vaulted people anyway, so your "efficiency" argument doesn't even hold water. 

1.)  No.  4* covers are more valuable when they apply champion rewards than they are when they are sold for 1k ISO.  Champing vaulted 4s instead of newest 4s ultimately means that more newest 4* covers get sold for ISO rather than applied as champ levels.

2.)  No.  It's not what I think the optimal strategy is.  It's what the optimal strategy is based on the current game mechanics.

3.)  No.  I'm not criticizing anyone, I'm telling you that you are wrong. If you take offense to that, then that's your problem, not mine.  Also, why are you trying to misrepresent the facts when you included them in the very post that you quoted.  He said "Vaulting can actually be a good system, but you'd need all those 12 champed first. I need a double iso to catch up..."  He doesn't need double ISO to catch up, he needed to not waste all that ISO on vaulted 4s.  This is where I take issue.  Once someone posts something like this on a public message board then it becomes my business, because it's spreading misinformation about a mechanic that is good for the game. A mechanic that the devs have already come out and threatened to alter should there be enough negative feedback.  I'm not going to sit here and do nothing while you and others misrepresent the system and get it changed to something inferior just because so many people simply can't grasp the math behind it.

Milk Jugz

Fightmastermpq said:

  Once someone posts something like this on a public message board then it becomes my business, because it's spreading misinformation about a mechanic that is good for the game. A mechanic that the devs have already come out and threatened to alter should there be enough negative feedback.  I'm not going to sit here and do nothing while you and others misrepresent the system and get it changed to something inferior just because so many people simply can't grasp the math behind it.

I'm not really taking exception to anything you said fightmaster except one thing. That!! Now, while I agree that dilution is an issue and it is much easier to cover the latest 12, I simply cannot get behind a mechanic that basically completely stalls progress on 75% (and counting as more are released and subsequently older are vaulted) of an entire tier. That is NOT good for the game. There HAS to be a better way!!! 

Huntah86

So far Ive champed Thor, Venom, X23 and Elektra. Ive finished fully covering Flaptain, Big Pun, Teen Jean, Drax, Cyclops and Deadpool as well thanks to BH and HFH. I dont spend any ISO on them unless Im waiting to fully cover one of the latest 12 (just need Grocket and Gamora)

Black Duke

Since they've introduced bonus heroes I've championed Nova and Red Hulk. There are a few enticing fully covered but underleveled 4* (Moon Knight, Winter Soldier, Carnage, Mr. Fantastic) left. Till I've all 12 latest 4* championed (at 9/12 right now), they won't get any ISO.

Fightmastermpq

Milk Jugz said:

Fightmastermpq said:

  Once someone posts something like this on a public message board then it becomes my business, because it's spreading misinformation about a mechanic that is good for the game. A mechanic that the devs have already come out and threatened to alter should there be enough negative feedback.  I'm not going to sit here and do nothing while you and others misrepresent the system and get it changed to something inferior just because so many people simply can't grasp the math behind it.

I'm not really taking exception to anything you said fightmaster except one thing. That!! Now, while I agree that dilution is an issue and it is much easier to cover the latest 12, I simply cannot get behind a mechanic that basically completely stalls progress on 75% (and counting as more are released and subsequently older are vaulted) of an entire tier. That is NOT good for the game. There HAS to be a better way!!! 

You are certainly welcome to that opinion, and obviously I don't agree. I recognize that slowing progress to near zero on such a large portion of available characters is a negative, but when I say "good for the game" I'm mainly weighing the trade-off of being able to progress more quickly as being friendlier to younger rosters to be a greater positive than the negative of making it tougher to develop the older characters. As far as "There HAS to be a better way".....certainly. No solution can be perfect for everybody, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't recognize this new system for the good that it is. Also, in a lot of ways there kind of isn't a better way in the sense that vaulting solved dilution by definition and allowing continued progress on 100% of characters really can only be done with dilution.  So ANY solution to the dilution problem will BY DEFINITION contain some type of vaulting mechanic.

Straycat

Fightmastermpq said:

1.)  No.  4* covers are more valuable when they apply champion rewards than they are when they are sold for 1k ISO.  Champing vaulted 4s instead of newest 4s ultimately means that more newest 4* covers get sold for ISO rather than applied as champ levels.

2.)  No.  It's not what I think the optimal strategy is.  It's what the optimal strategy is based on the current game mechanics.

3.)  No.  I'm not criticizing anyone, I'm telling you that you are wrong. If you take offense to that, then that's your problem, not mine.  Also, why are you trying to misrepresent the facts when you included them in the very post that you quoted.  He said "Vaulting can actually be a good system, but you'd need all those 12 champed first. I need a double iso to catch up..."  He doesn't need double ISO to catch up, he needed to not waste all that ISO on vaulted 4s.  This is where I take issue.  Once someone posts something like this on a public message board then it becomes my business, because it's spreading misinformation about a mechanic that is good for the game. A mechanic that the devs have already come out and threatened to alter should there be enough negative feedback.  I'm not going to sit here and do nothing while you and others misrepresent the system and get it changed to something inferior just because so many people simply can't grasp the math behind it.

1) This started on a fairly harmless comment of " I need double iso to catch up". This might just be semantics, but I read that statement to be agreeing with your point. He said "why champ peggy with 1 extra cover vs Fist", which concedes that it is probably a better decision to champ a latest 12. Catching up in that case means, "if I wanted to go back and champ vaulted characters, I need more iso" not "if I want to champ a latest 12 i need more iso" which is how you seemed to take it.

2) I think there is more nuance than you are allowing. Sure, the "optimal" mechanic is hard to dispute, but I agree with boywonder that there is different value to different champs. It might just be that the old way is still ingrained in me, but going from non champ 270-271 is worth more than going from 282-283. A character like Peggy is probably worth champing without any extra covers, but there is no math that can support that.

3) Semantics again, but you can't say someone is wrong when the base fact of the value of covers or iso is in dispute. You say 375k iso is worth more in Agent venom than it is in Iceman or Peggy because that investment will wield maybe 25 more champ levels. (In my experience, Blade is my highest champ at 292 and will leave the pool next) That really is only a few LT, some hp, cp, and like 15k iso back. I prefer more champs total, even if they end up stuck at 290 than only the latest champs but the hit 300. And since a vaulted cover is much more rare, doesn't that make it more valuable? if I had 2 peggy covers and 2 Fist covers both expiring at the same time but could only champ 1 of them, there would be 2 covers wasted either way. I couldn't replace the Peggy covers easily, but I can replace the Fist covers. To me, having a 272 Peggy and a 290 Fist is better than a 188 Peggy and a 292 Fist but what would the math say?

Spidurman27

@Milk Jugz

regardless of how any of us feel about vaulting it is part of our reality playing the game - especially for someone like me as a 4* player (I do ascribe pretty strongly to what fightmaster says, maybe not to his degree but we are on the same page).   

If you want to play in the 4* world, you have to account for vaulting in your macro-strategy because this is a resource management game.  Yes it's a match3/etc, but it is also about managing those three semi-finite resources and trying to optimize them.

I define optimize a little differently, I weigh champing quality over quantity higher for initial champs at a level.  If you have a handful of champs at a level, blindly champing a mediocre character will not improve you but may hamper you with a scaling tax.  However for me with 18 4* champs, there's little marginal difference between champing Mordo or Nova (both have vine covers right now for me).  However, I'll probably get more long-term utility simply from champing Mordo and having him either a)collect a ton of champ levels and/or b)getting useful either by an upgrade or sheer number of levels.  Nova will sit at 271 until his next PVE/PVP cycle, which will be awhile.

Wumpushunter

So we the proud few who had no 4 star Champs before the iron curtain slammed shut can use a new 12 for this next 7 day PVE event instead of vaulted 4 star Blade.   I mean if the most effectivr way to play is ignore the old and focus on the new Demiurge is going to only focus on new ones for DDQ abd PVE right? A few days ago when I could not play the burrito or the clash because both were vaulted characters that was a mistake right? 

Milk Jugz

Wumpushunter said:

So we the proud few who had no 4 star Champs before the iron curtain slammed shut can use a new 12 for this next 7 day PVE event instead of vaulted 4 star Blade.   I mean if the most effectivr way to play is ignore the old and focus on the new Demiurge is going to only focus on new ones for DDQ abd PVE right? A few days ago when I could not play the burrito or the clash because both were vaulted characters that was a mistake right? 

No the vaulted characters will still be required for various events like the BB. But, I also want to point out that Blade isn't vaulted...... Yet.... He is the next out I believe

Spidurman27

They are definitely favoring the newer (post-Peggy) characters the last few weeks....that's an unmistakable trend.

Milk Jugz

@Fightmastermpq
@Spidurman27

I'm pretty solidly into 4* land myself, sitting on 23 champs and in the next 2 days will have Medusa done. I was lucky when vaulting happened in that I had most of the tier fully covered already. Only MM @5/3/4, SG and WS @2/5/5, MK and WM @3/3/5, and KB @4/2/3. Everyone else vaulted is fully covered, and I've been champing both latest 12 and vaulted as I see fit.

Most of my problem with vaulting is for people like wumpushunter, he has a fairly young roster and now will miss out on various required events because he doesn't have the necessary 4* character and there is virtually no path to get said character. I've said this before somewhere in the forums, I think the best solution for everybody would be a weekly boosted vault. Put the boosted 3* and 4* in there, possibly even the boosted 2* and people can target it if they want what's in the vault. It's not perfect, RNG will still be a factor, but at least it offers options to everybody and everybody likes options. I say again there HAS to be a better way!!!

Jaedenkaal

Wumpushunter said:

So we the proud few who had no 4 star Champs before the iron curtain slammed shut can use a new 12 for this next 7 day PVE event instead of vaulted 4 star Blade.   I mean if the most effectivr way to play is ignore the old and focus on the new Demiurge is going to only focus on new ones for DDQ abd PVE right? A few days ago when I could not play the burrito or the clash because both were vaulted characters that was a mistake right? 

Uh... what? If you didn't have Ant-Man or Nova rostered before they were vaulted, you probably still wouldn't have them today even if they hadn't been vaulted. And they certainly wouldn't have been in good enough shape for a Crash.
If it's really important to you, you could use your bonus hero 4* to get 1 cover of all the characters (vaulted or otherwise) that you don't already have.

In any case, I don't think this is really what this thread is about.

Fightmastermpq

Straycat said:

Fightmastermpq said:

1.)  No.  4* covers are more valuable when they apply champion rewards than they are when they are sold for 1k ISO.  Champing vaulted 4s instead of newest 4s ultimately means that more newest 4* covers get sold for ISO rather than applied as champ levels.

2.)  No.  It's not what I think the optimal strategy is.  It's what the optimal strategy is based on the current game mechanics.

3.)  No.  I'm not criticizing anyone, I'm telling you that you are wrong. If you take offense to that, then that's your problem, not mine.  Also, why are you trying to misrepresent the facts when you included them in the very post that you quoted.  He said "Vaulting can actually be a good system, but you'd need all those 12 champed first. I need a double iso to catch up..."  He doesn't need double ISO to catch up, he needed to not waste all that ISO on vaulted 4s.  This is where I take issue.  Once someone posts something like this on a public message board then it becomes my business, because it's spreading misinformation about a mechanic that is good for the game. A mechanic that the devs have already come out and threatened to alter should there be enough negative feedback.  I'm not going to sit here and do nothing while you and others misrepresent the system and get it changed to something inferior just because so many people simply can't grasp the math behind it.

1) This started on a fairly harmless comment of " I need double iso to catch up". This might just be semantics, but I read that statement to be agreeing with your point. He said "why champ peggy with 1 extra cover vs Fist", which concedes that it is probably a better decision to champ a latest 12. Catching up in that case means, "if I wanted to go back and champ vaulted characters, I need more iso" not "if I want to champ a latest 12 i need more iso" which is how you seemed to take it.

2) I think there is more nuance than you are allowing. Sure, the "optimal" mechanic is hard to dispute, but I agree with boywonder that there is different value to different champs. It might just be that the old way is still ingrained in me, but going from non champ 270-271 is worth more than going from 282-283. A character like Peggy is probably worth champing without any extra covers, but there is no math that can support that.

3) Semantics again, but you can't say someone is wrong when the base fact of the value of covers or iso is in dispute. You say 375k iso is worth more in Agent venom than it is in Iceman or Peggy because that investment will wield maybe 25 more champ levels. (In my experience, Blade is my highest champ at 292 and will leave the pool next) That really is only a few LT, some hp, cp, and like 15k iso back. I prefer more champs total, even if they end up stuck at 290 than only the latest champs but the hit 300. And since a vaulted cover is much more rare, doesn't that make it more valuable? if I had 2 peggy covers and 2 Fist covers both expiring at the same time but could only champ 1 of them, there would be 2 covers wasted either way. I couldn't replace the Peggy covers easily, but I can replace the Fist covers. To me, having a 272 Peggy and a 290 Fist is better than a 188 Peggy and a 292 Fist but what would the math say?

1)  It's not so much about what @jgomes32 said originally, and while I realize my comment came off as chastising him for what I feel is a poor decision, the broader point is meant for others that read through this thread as they are developing their own roster strategies in the future.  I'm just trying to get anyone that thinks vaulting caused an ISO shortage (a very common mentality on here) to realize that there is no ISO shortage if a more optimal roster strategy is implemented.

2)  OK

3)  This is incredibly misleading and completely misses the point.  First of all your comment of "I prefer more champs total" doesn't support your position at all, as the total number of champed 4s that you have is dependent solely on your ISO earn rate, which is relatively flat with or without vaulting, and with or without optimal strategy.  If anything the nod here goes to champing the newest as the increase in champ rewards provides more resources to fuel more growth.  With regards to rare covers being more valuable.....not in the slightest.  You can't resell those "rare" covers so their value to you is based on what resources they can return.  A newer character that will return champ rewards until they are vaulted is far more valuable than a single champ level on a vaulted character.  Lastly your scenario of expiring covers for vaulted v newest is incredibly short-sighted.  Say you champ the vaulted character - great, you have a 272 that collects dust and you sell 2 covers for the other character.  Now what happens 2 weeks from now?  You have to make the decision again between that same new character and some other character.  2 more covers wasted......and so on and so forth.  If you champ the newest one though 2 weeks from now you get to apply those 2 champ levels and champ another newest character.  Then 2 weeks later you apply those 2 champ rewards to BOTH new characters and champ another new character.....surely you see how quickly these champ levels and rewards start to stack up to the point where you have all 12 new characters champed, and every single 4* cover you pull gets applied as a champ reward and fuels even more growth.  No waste ever......THEN you can go back and champ your Peggy.

Now, I'm not an idiot.  I recognize how good Peggy is.  But she isn't SO good that having her champed over most of the other new 4s is going to make you so much more competitive that you are able to place/progress much better than you could without her.  Obviously this is dependent on your roster and maybe if we are talking about your first couple of 4* champs and your choices are Peggy or some of the **** newer 4s then yeah, Peggy probably does make more sense.  But long term it's far more efficient to get the cycle of having all 12 of the newest 4*s champed as quickly as possible to minimize waste.

Beer40

Milk Jugz said:

@Fightmastermpq
@Spidurman27

I'm pretty solidly into 4* land myself, sitting on 23 champs and in the next 2 days will have Medusa done. I was lucky when vaulting happened in that I had most of the tier fully covered already. Only MM @5/3/4, SG and WS @2/5/5, MK and WM @3/3/5, and KB @4/2/3. Everyone else vaulted is fully covered, and I've been champing both latest 12 and vaulted as I see fit.

Most of my problem with vaulting is for people like wumpushunter, he has a fairly young roster and now will miss out on various required events because he doesn't have the necessary 4* character and there is virtually no path to get said character. I've said this before somewhere in the forums, I think the best solution for everybody would be a weekly boosted vault. Put the boosted 3* and 4* in there, possibly even the boosted 2* and people can target it if they want what's in the vault. It's not perfect, RNG will still be a factor, but at least it offers options to everybody and everybody likes options. I say again there HAS to be a better way!!!

I'll play along because I think this idea has some merit to at least swing some people more to the neutral side of for/against vaulting. So here's my questions: How big is this vault? And what else is inside? The reason I ask is because if people spend resources in hopes of counteracting vaulting (specifically in the way you mention) I think there would be an even bigger outcry against it if they, more often than not, didn't get the required characters they need. 

Wumpushunter

Milk Jugz said:

No the vaulted characters will still be required for various events like the BB. But, I also want to point out that Blade isn't vaulted...... Yet.... He is the next out I believe

If The Powers that Be did not want vaulting to just be accepted like true healing was, they would create a stickied list of vaulted 3s and 4s with the dates for when each additional old character would leave packs. But that utility post would keep vaulting fresh in everyone's mind.  Thank you for telling me about Bl4de.