Scaling Tied To S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Levels (5/25/17)

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  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
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    I finished the event in 1st place in SCL8, with most of my clears taking less than 30 minutes.  It was a huge improvement in time spent, but the difficulty was too easy.  I never even used my 5* Panther with Thanos because every fight was basically over after a single Court Death.

    My T10 was still filled with soft-cappers though and what I would really like to see is an increase in enemy level with a decrease in the number of clears required.  Make it harder - but keep the 30 minute clear times.

    Also, the number of screens you have to get through after a battle before you get to the next fight as just way too long - this is what slowed me down more than anything (I still believe largely due to my platform/device), but can't we get rid of some of this fluff???
  • evade420
    evade420 Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
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    As a 4* player with over 30 champed, and 1 5* @ lvl456 (thanos) this was an awesome change, i dropped down to scl7 and really enjoyed it.
    Doing the 5+ clears didin't feel like a chore and I even got to try out some 4* team combinations that my scaling would not have previously allowed me to do.
    I really hope that they tweak this a bit and try it again, it's a move in the right direction as far as I'm concerned at least.
    if they run it again I'll be going scl8 but I like the idea of choosing your enemy levels when you need a bit of a break but still want to collect rewards. 
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
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    Fightmastermpq said:
    I finished the event in 1st place in SCL8, with most of my clears taking less than 30 minutes.  It was a huge improvement in time spent, but the difficulty was too easy.  I never even used my 5* Panther with Thanos because every fight was basically over after a single Court Death.

    My T10 was still filled with soft-cappers though and what I would really like to see is an increase in enemy level with a decrease in the number of clears required.  Make it harder - but keep the 30 minute clear times.

    Also, the number of screens you have to get through after a battle before you get to the next fight as just way too long - this is what slowed me down more than anything (I still believe largely due to my platform/device), but can't we get rid of some of this fluff???

    This PvE mechanic screams for higher top end SCLs, whether that's re-adjusting the levels and rewards in the current 8 we have now, or coming out with more I don't really care, but the highest SCL should be tough for level 550/370 rosters and offer rewards that properly reflect the difficulty.


    My hope is that this test demonstrated that they have the proper mechanics down for removing scaling from PvE, and emphasized the need to now address enemy level and rewards at each SCL.  

  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
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    cpeyton3535 said:
    ...
    Not sure why everyone is calling for the elimination of placement rewards.  I honestly think of them as gravy.  If I'm not feeling like optimal clears and a huge time commitment but I still get some ISO and tokens just for showing up I really don't see that as a bad thing.  Make them a little less top heavy and a bit more generous, I absolutely support that, but no need to completely abolish them.  I want more rewards, not less!

    The people constantly clamoring to remove placement have an unrealistic vision that the current rewards given in T1, or T5 would become available to everyone in progression only.

    I would be for all for that pipe dream too but I don't believe in fairy tales.
  • hodayathink
    hodayathink Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
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    acescracked said:
    cpeyton3535 said:
    ...
    Not sure why everyone is calling for the elimination of placement rewards.  I honestly think of them as gravy.  If I'm not feeling like optimal clears and a huge time commitment but I still get some ISO and tokens just for showing up I really don't see that as a bad thing.  Make them a little less top heavy and a bit more generous, I absolutely support that, but no need to completely abolish them.  I want more rewards, not less!

    The people constantly clamoring to remove placement have an unrealistic vision that the current rewards given in T1, or T5 would become available to everyone in progression only.

    I would be for all for that pipe dream too but I don't believe in fairy tales.
    Basically. They've already kinda run a test that was basically what would happen if they went to a progression only system. Last year, when testing out the 4 clears thing, they ran a test where the points never refreshed at all, and all you needed to do was do 6 clears at any point during the day to end up in a tie for first place (the event was Enemy Of The State, a 7 day event). IIRC, I think they said something like 3% of people did all six clears for the entire event (and even though they hadn't announced it before hand, they ended up giving all those people first place rewards because they had never announced how they'd break ties). The basic thing here is that they clearly want only a certain top percentage of players (as of right now, 1%) to get those 4 star rewards, and outside of making it a truly ridiculous grind there's no way for them to do that, because once you put that goal out there more people are going to attempt to reach it.
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,477 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Fightmastermpq said:
     Make it harder - but keep the 30 minute clear times.

    100% agree with this point. As it currently stands, it can be hard to differentiate players. The margins are so tight that random factors like device responsiveness, a family conversation, pee break etc... can be the difference between placements. The difficulty needs to be tuned so that knowledge, skill, or experience should be the deciding factor in placement.
  • madok
    madok Posts: 905 Critical Contributor
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    It was interesting approaching this test with two accounts. I have my main mobile account with multiple champed 5*s. I went down to CL 7 to see how fast the clears were going to be at that level. With a champed 5* Thanos, I was able to do the clears in around 25 minutes which was awesome. I ended up getting 3rd place in the event so sub placement rewards made up for the rewards I missed in CL 8.

    My other account is a Steam account I play from time to time for various reasons. It just unlocked CL7 events and only has 4 champed 3*s. I had to go down to CL5 to keep the scaling like I was seeing before the test. So there are definitely tweaks to be made. I would hate to be a newer player that without tons of effort has unlocked a higher CL with a low end roster if this scaling becomes permanent. 
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
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    I see a great deal of people asking for either "mega" rewards for CL 8 or a new CL 9 with mega rewards.  End game power creep will destroy a game fast. When 1/2 your players are progressing stupid fast and rest are crawling it becomes a game of haves and have nots.
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Wumpushunter said:
    I see a great deal of people asking for either "mega" rewards for CL 8 or a new CL 9 with mega rewards.  End game power creep will destroy a game fast. When 1/2 your players are progressing stupid fast and rest are crawling it becomes a game of haves and have nots.
    I think you're severely overestimating the number of players progressing "super fast". 1/5 to 1/10 is probably closer. Remember, only 10% of players get a new hero when it's released. The number who get them through progression is a bit higher. For a large portion of players, that progression ends up becoming much more punshing when enemy levels suddenly jump way past their normal scaling. And it's wrong to go saying "If they aren't at that level, then the SCL isn't for them," because SCL 8 has 3 rare covers in it. It's meant for them. It was always meant for them.
  • JaGo
    JaGo Posts: 94 Match Maker
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    Personally, I like the system as is. During the experiment my 2 star essential went from 80ish levels at the start to the 140's for SCL 7 Really?? That's just the easiest comparison I could think of. The others were just bonkers and it's the first time since SCL's were introduced that I didn't just automatically join SCL 8. And honestly, my roster did not start accelerating until 4 clears in PVE awarded a total of 25 CP. it was abyssmally slow until they made that change. Now that it takes 5 clears( right? ) to max out progression for an event it slowed down again for me considerably . That combined with these huge jumps in "starting" levels caused me to just quit the event altogether. That's a first for me as well. It was exhausting and chewed through health packs like sand storm through paper mache. 

    I understand the plight of the players with many champed 4 stars and 5's, but making it harder for the rest of us isn't the answer either.

    I wish I had a great suggestion that was fair to all of us, but I don't. I simply wanted to state my point of view.

    The 4 clear system and previous SCL 8 awards were perfect for me and I really want them back. It fit my busy schedule and accelerated my roster.

    Regards,

    -JaGo


  • El Satanno
    El Satanno Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Please make this test scaling the way forward. Easy, difficult, whatever. Just keep making it faster.
  • NMANOZ
    NMANOZ Posts: 108 Tile Toppler
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    Phumade said:
    Fightmastermpq said:
     Make it harder - but keep the 30 minute clear times.

    100% agree with this point. As it currently stands, it can be hard to differentiate players. The margins are so tight that random factors like device responsiveness, a family conversation, pee break etc... can be the difference between placements. The difficulty needs to be tuned so that knowledge, skill, or experience should be the deciding factor in placement.
    If you are playing on a mobile, you can do both at the same time!
  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
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    JaGo said:
    Personally, I like the system as is. During the experiment my 2 star essential went from 80ish levels at the start to the 140's for SCL 7 Really?? That's just the easiest comparison I could think of. The others were just bonkers and it's the first time since SCL's were introduced that I didn't just automatically join SCL 8. And honestly, my roster did not start accelerating until 4 clears in PVE awarded a total of 25 CP. it was abyssmally slow until they made that change. Now that it takes 5 clears( right? ) to max out progression for an event it slowed down again for me considerably . That combined with these huge jumps in "starting" levels caused me to just quit the event altogether. That's a first for me as well. It was exhausting and chewed through health packs like sand storm through paper mache. 

    I understand the plight of the players with many champed 4 stars and 5's, but making it harder for the rest of us isn't the answer either.

    I wish I had a great suggestion that was fair to all of us, but I don't. I simply wanted to state my point of view.

    The 4 clear system and previous SCL 8 awards were perfect for me and I really want them back. It fit my busy schedule and accelerated my roster.

    Regards,

    -JaGo


    Unfortunately you were getting rewards that you never deserved. SCL8 is the absolute highest they currently have to offer, so obviously it's meant for the best rosters.  If you couldn't handle the level 300 or whatever they were enemies that SCL8 was throwing at you, then you roster is not yet big enough to reap the best rewards.  Drop down until you can deal with the difficulty and progress from there.
  • JaGo
    JaGo Posts: 94 Match Maker
    edited June 2017
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    Why should I have to drop down? It was working just fine. Why in the world would you say I don't deserve the rewards that were there to be attained? I play a couple hours a day, 7 days a week for the last 679 days with about $600 in cash spent during that time. I know the ones in 5 star land have spent more, but to say I don't deserve the rewards I have already been getting is an immensely asinine statement to make. If SCL 8 wasn't meant for me, then perhaps SCL 10 should already exist for those with greater rosters and beter rewards. To say the rewards in SCL 8 are just for the Elite is quite ridiculous being that I have hugely invested my time and money and feel what I have been receiving in rewards is fair and to take those away is unjust.

    -JaGo


    @Brigby
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2017
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    JaGo said:
    Why should I have to drop down? It was working just fine. Why in the world would you say I don't deserve the rewards that were there to be attained? I play a couple hours a day, 7 days a week for the last 679 days with about $600 in cash spent during that time. I know the ones in 5 star land have spent more, but to say I don't deserve the rewards I have already been getting is an immensely asinine statement to make. If SCL 8 wasn't meant for me, then perhaps SCL 10 should already exist for those with greater rosters and beter rewards. To say the rewards in SCL 8 are just for the Elite is quite ridiculous being that I have hugely invested my time and money and feel what I have been receiving in rewards is fair and to take those away is unjust.

    -JaGo


    @Brigby
    If your levels for any non-trivial node were starting at 80, then of course the old way benefits you. If this were most other games, the highest level would start at the absolute highest tier of enemy levels (guessing 450+) and then the levels would decrease accordingly along with the SCL. How far down in the SCLs do you think you'd have to go to get to level 80 enemies if they were scaled starting from the top clearance levels down? I assure you, it's nowhere near 8. 
  • JaGo
    JaGo Posts: 94 Match Maker
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    I see you chose not to comprehend my post as most here aren't by you forumites. I used the 2 Star Essential node as an example of the major increase of this experiment. The 2star essential jumped from 80ish levels to somewhere in the 145+. The other hard nodes were obviously similar, but you don't see a problem with with a starting level increase of 65+ levels? Wow,your roster must be incredibly deep.
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Fightmastermpq said:
    JaGo said:
    Personally, I like the system as is. During the experiment my 2 star essential went from 80ish levels at the start to the 140's for SCL 7 Really?? That's just the easiest comparison I could think of. The others were just bonkers and it's the first time since SCL's were introduced that I didn't just automatically join SCL 8. And honestly, my roster did not start accelerating until 4 clears in PVE awarded a total of 25 CP. it was abyssmally slow until they made that change. Now that it takes 5 clears( right? ) to max out progression for an event it slowed down again for me considerably . That combined with these huge jumps in "starting" levels caused me to just quit the event altogether. That's a first for me as well. It was exhausting and chewed through health packs like sand storm through paper mache. 

    I understand the plight of the players with many champed 4 stars and 5's, but making it harder for the rest of us isn't the answer either.

    I wish I had a great suggestion that was fair to all of us, but I don't. I simply wanted to state my point of view.

    The 4 clear system and previous SCL 8 awards were perfect for me and I really want them back. It fit my busy schedule and accelerated my roster.

    Regards,

    -JaGo


    Unfortunately you were getting rewards that you never deserved. SCL8 is the absolute highest they currently have to offer, so obviously it's meant for the best rosters.  If you couldn't handle the level 300 or whatever they were enemies that SCL8 was throwing at you, then you roster is not yet big enough to reap the best rewards.  Drop down until you can deal with the difficulty and progress from there.
    Unfortunately, this attitude does not hold water. While a person just entering SCL8 may not "deserve" the top placement rewards, they do deserve the progression rewards. Good placement is gravy. Progression is, however, necessary.
    Let us make a comparison here to PVP. Now, you might say a person does not deserve the top rewards from PVP without having the biggest roster, and in the case of PVP, this ends up being the case. And without the biggest roster, even the top progression reward is unattainable, as beyond a certain number of points, there is no way to really progress as points are lost due to attacks. There becomes a progression plateau at various levels of roster strength. A 4 star roster may rarely get to 1200, but will probably not. A 3 star roster might get 900 by some miracle. A 2 star roster should probably hit 300 and call it a day. Would your suggestion be to, "Drop down until you can deal with the difficulty and progress from there?" No. PVP is an area of the game where, regardless of the SCL, players are denied rewards they "deserve" in order to progress because the plateau of points is the same.
    Players need to be able to play in the SCL they have access to, PVP or PVE. To say they shouldn't be there due to the strength of the roster is massively and inexcusably arrogant. Players having a competitive edge in PVE because their lower tier roster somehow clears the content more efficiently that a higher tier roster is 1) impressive use of what the player has or 2) the fault of the Developers for not properly balancing the way scaling works at the higher levels. Don't expect the developers to punish lower tier players for the shortcomings of the developers because that, dear player, is far less fair that the scaling you face.

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