Scaling Tied To S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Levels (5/25/17)

11921232425

Comments

  • Stax the Foyer
    Stax the Foyer Posts: 941 Critical Contributor
    No champed 5*, so I went down to SCL7

    Overall time commitment was better.  If this was the first step toward a progression only pve structure then i'd say it's great.  I don't believe that's the case.




    Any PvE structure can be a progression only PvE structure if you don't try hard enough.
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
    New McG said:
    zodiac339 said:

    As for feeling like your roster was worth it, getting better gear in games has always, almost invariably, meant fighting bigger, stronger, scarier things. Why should MPQ suddenly become vastly different from that?

    If the prize for something is the exact same thing, but one person is fighting level 125s, and the other is fighting 450s, does that sound remotely fair?
    Unfortunately, they don't yet get to fight for anything they actually need. The failing of the delay on SCL 9 and 10. It's the same for PVP too, more or less. They need something to build their Epic heroes, but all they get is Legendaries (and the 15 extra CP at 1200 that almost nobody below Epic can get). If they open SCL 9/10 with a requirement to join of average roster strength 450 for 9 and 500 for 10, I'll be a litlle sad I don't get the new prizes, but it would be nice for them to get something that truly is for them. I'll stay here in SCL8, get top ten now and then, be impressed when a 3-star roster gets the win, and still sadly look at the top 5 PVP spots being held by Epic players.
    Capping enemies well below the Epic tier doesn't make anything fair for anyone. We're locked out of Legendary reward placement we need, and they are getting Legendary reward placement that they barely need (aside from Champion rewards like the LTs and CPs those rewards slowly give).
  • Nepenthe
    Nepenthe Posts: 283 Mover and Shaker
    New McG said:
    zodiac339 said:

    As for feeling like your roster was worth it, getting better gear in games has always, almost invariably, meant fighting bigger, stronger, scarier things. Why should MPQ suddenly become vastly different from that?

    If the prize for something is the exact same thing, but one person is fighting level 125s, and the other is fighting 450s, does that sound remotely fair?
    Also, this change is making MPQ more like other games. When you level up in an rpg you don't stay in the same area fighting the same mobs who are higher level now. You move up to the next zone, fight harder mobs for more rewards. That's moving up to the next CL and fighting higher level nodes. 

    This scaling change is finally adding the idea of making progress back into PvE.  Collect more covers, level your roster, and then you can step up to the next CL.
  • Stax the Foyer
    Stax the Foyer Posts: 941 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2017
    zodiac339 said:
    New McG said:
    zodiac339 said:

    As for feeling like your roster was worth it, getting better gear in games has always, almost invariably, meant fighting bigger, stronger, scarier things. Why should MPQ suddenly become vastly different from that?

    If the prize for something is the exact same thing, but one person is fighting level 125s, and the other is fighting 450s, does that sound remotely fair?
    Unfortunately, they don't yet get to fight for anything they actually need. The failing of the delay on SCL 9 and 10. It's the same for PVP too, more or less. They need something to build their Epic heroes, but all they get is Legendaries (and the 15 extra CP at 1200 that almost nobody below Epic can get). If they open SCL 9/10 with a requirement to join of average roster strength 450 for 9 and 500 for 10, I'll be a litlle sad I don't get the new prizes, but it would be nice for them to get something that truly is for them. I'll stay here in SCL8, get top ten now and then, be impressed when a 3-star roster gets the win, and still sadly look at the top 5 PVP spots being held by Epic players.
    Capping enemies well below the Epic tier doesn't make anything fair for anyone. We're locked out of Legendary reward placement we need, and they are getting Legendary reward placement that they barely need (aside from Champion rewards like the LTs and CPs those rewards slowly give).
    4* covers are very useful to 5* players, both as champion levels and for the rewards granted by those champion levels.  3* and even 2* covers remain useful as well, in their own way, but 4* covers in particular are still quite valuable.  

    My 4* characters still see quite a bit of use, even over my 5* characters, and when they do, it's almost always because they're well-champed.

    Progress is slower on them, but every little bit helps.
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    zodiac339 said:
    New McG said:
    zodiac339 said:

    As for feeling like your roster was worth it, getting better gear in games has always, almost invariably, meant fighting bigger, stronger, scarier things. Why should MPQ suddenly become vastly different from that?

    If the prize for something is the exact same thing, but one person is fighting level 125s, and the other is fighting 450s, does that sound remotely fair?
    Unfortunately, they don't yet get to fight for anything they actually need. The failing of the delay on SCL 9 and 10. It's the same for PVP too, more or less. They need something to build their Epic heroes, but all they get is Legendaries (and the 15 extra CP at 1200 that almost nobody below Epic can get). If they open SCL 9/10 with a requirement to join of average roster strength 450 for 9 and 500 for 10, I'll be a litlle sad I don't get the new prizes, but it would be nice for them to get something that truly is for them. I'll stay here in SCL8, get top ten now and then, be impressed when a 3-star roster gets the win, and still sadly look at the top 5 PVP spots being held by Epic players.
    Capping enemies well below the Epic tier doesn't make anything fair for anyone. We're locked out of Legendary reward placement we need, and they are getting Legendary reward placement that they barely need (aside from Champion rewards like the LTs and CPs those rewards slowly give).
    I'd say new release events are still pretty important regardless of player tier.
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
    New McG said:
    zodiac339 said:
    New McG said:
    zodiac339 said:

    As for feeling like your roster was worth it, getting better gear in games has always, almost invariably, meant fighting bigger, stronger, scarier things. Why should MPQ suddenly become vastly different from that?

    If the prize for something is the exact same thing, but one person is fighting level 125s, and the other is fighting 450s, does that sound remotely fair?
    Unfortunately, they don't yet get to fight for anything they actually need. The failing of the delay on SCL 9 and 10. It's the same for PVP too, more or less. They need something to build their Epic heroes, but all they get is Legendaries (and the 15 extra CP at 1200 that almost nobody below Epic can get). If they open SCL 9/10 with a requirement to join of average roster strength 450 for 9 and 500 for 10, I'll be a litlle sad I don't get the new prizes, but it would be nice for them to get something that truly is for them. I'll stay here in SCL8, get top ten now and then, be impressed when a 3-star roster gets the win, and still sadly look at the top 5 PVP spots being held by Epic players.
    Capping enemies well below the Epic tier doesn't make anything fair for anyone. We're locked out of Legendary reward placement we need, and they are getting Legendary reward placement that they barely need (aside from Champion rewards like the LTs and CPs those rewards slowly give).
    I'd say new release events are still pretty important regardless of player tier.
    New McG said:
    zodiac339 said:
    New McG said:
    zodiac339 said:

    As for feeling like your roster was worth it, getting better gear in games has always, almost invariably, meant fighting bigger, stronger, scarier things. Why should MPQ suddenly become vastly different from that?

    If the prize for something is the exact same thing, but one person is fighting level 125s, and the other is fighting 450s, does that sound remotely fair?
    Unfortunately, they don't yet get to fight for anything they actually need. The failing of the delay on SCL 9 and 10. It's the same for PVP too, more or less. They need something to build their Epic heroes, but all they get is Legendaries (and the 15 extra CP at 1200 that almost nobody below Epic can get). If they open SCL 9/10 with a requirement to join of average roster strength 450 for 9 and 500 for 10, I'll be a litlle sad I don't get the new prizes, but it would be nice for them to get something that truly is for them. I'll stay here in SCL8, get top ten now and then, be impressed when a 3-star roster gets the win, and still sadly look at the top 5 PVP spots being held by Epic players.
    Capping enemies well below the Epic tier doesn't make anything fair for anyone. We're locked out of Legendary reward placement we need, and they are getting Legendary reward placement that they barely need (aside from Champion rewards like the LTs and CPs those rewards slowly give).
    I'd say new release events are still pretty important regardless of player tier.
    Sort of. Not getting that top 100 on release is pretty crippling if you want to progress on the following event. However, the way to get an actually usable new character is to buy the 
    40 packs from their PVP (now that I realize that the featured Legendary is the only Legendary there. Thanks for helping me notice that Gamor4 red!) PVE release placement should probably feel less important to those who are just going to buy 40 packs like that.
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    zodiac339 said:
    Sort of. Not getting that top 100 on release is pretty crippling if you want to progress on the following event. However, the way to get an actually usable new character is to buy the 
    40 packs from their PVP (now that I realize that the featured Legendary is the only Legendary there. Thanks for helping me notice that Gamor4 red!) PVE release placement should probably feel less important to those who are just going to buy 40 packs like that.
    You're confusing "person with 5* champs" with "megawhale". The former does not always mean the latter.
  • roboto0007
    roboto0007 Posts: 16 Just Dropped In
    Overall, I don't think this idea was terrible in conception, but the test was not the best in execution. As a mid level player it was frustrating to see such a quick and immense increase in enemy levels (I didn't realize the test was happening until after the event had started.) As a result I got left cold for this event as my roster couldn't hack the higher levels needed to progress. I really feel as though the SCL need to be expanded and spread out quite a bit more to really see the benefit shine through.   Add levels 9 and 10 to spread out the level increases and add some progression rewards geared specifically a player with a top tier roster, but keep existing levels the same or very similar for existing players in the middle range to build their roster as well.  I think the focus should be to expand progression, rather than condense it.
  • Gredler01
    Gredler01 Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    I liked this scaling a lot. Please make it permanent!
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    revskip said:
    Alsmir said:
    I'm seriously concerned about future of this game. At this time, not because of recent changes, but because of attitude of 5* players.

    I know that entire 5* meta is weird, inconsistent and drastically needs changes + improvements. Set lvl difficulties don't fix that, unless they come with SCL 9, 10 and changes to reward structure. That test just flooded the SCL 7, 8 with 5* players who kicked anyone else out of placement spots. Same thing that we had in PvP for long time.

    5* players got super easy fights, but everyone else got slapped into the face. That fixes nothing and you don't have to be that smart to realize that.

    It troubles me when I read "Let's make that permament, my opponents are super easy now and I can do full clear in 25 minutes." What about people who don't have 5* rosters? 3* players were pushed out of CL8, others keep facing similar or stronger opponents, but you only think about yourself. Disguisting.
    Not trying to be snarky but should 3* rosters really be taking top ten spots at the highest possible SCL?  I think if implemented correctly the test could work to do something that has been lacking for a while and that is spacing out the players a bit more which will help everyone.  

    SCL 8 should be for the top rosters, they spent the time and/or money to get the end game content (until they add 9/10).   SCL 7 should be for 4* rosters and 4* transitioners who have enough support 3*s that they can punch above their weight.  SCL 6 should be for early 4* transitioners and strong 3* teams, etc.  Stratifying the SCLs a little better than they have will help everyone.  

    The two issues I see with the test are people who up until now were able to compete at the top SCL will feel a bit bummed that they can no longer get a shot at the very top rewards, and that some of the biggest rosters are dropping down to other SCLs for a super easy mode eating up rewards meant for rosters that are less developed.  The latter seems to be far less widespread, in my bracket in SCL 7 there really are only two 5* rosters in the top ten.  

    I think if they implemented a floor as well as a ceiling people would be more likely to go to the most appropriate SCL for their roster.  I really liked KGB's general concept:

    KGB said:
    With this new scaling system DG3 should consider turning all clearance levels into a form of Heroic.

    SCL1: 1* characters only + the 2,3&4* essential
    SCL2-3: 1&2* characters only + the 3&4* essential
    SCL4-5: 1-3* characters only + the 4* essential
    SCL6-7: 1-4* characters only
    SCL8: any characters

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This way if someone with a top tier roster decides they want to drop down for an event for whatever reason they are still using the appropriate type of roster for the SCL they are playing in and aren't just stomping over everyone in their bracket by using their characters that others at the SCL don't have access to.  Most people who are solidly in 5* land have high level 4*s so they wouldn't be at any competitive disadvantage going to SCL 7 and using their 4*s there.  Most people with 4*s also have high level 3*s so if they chose to drop down to SCL 5 they would still retain an advantage but a much smaller one.  
    I guess I just don't understand why so many people expect that your games and placement are supposed to get much easier, when you have stronger roster. Maybe I'm silly, but I hope that is not the main idea behind MPQ. I;d like to imagine that devs want the game to be fun  and engaging for all rosters.
    Not the 5* beat anyone else, 4* beat similar and weaker rosters, but instead facing similar opponents no matter at what level of transition you are.

    If you can just dump a truck of money to cruise into 5* land and suddenly start grabbing top placements rewards with ease (already happening in PvP) then this is a massive waste of time and just an e-peen contest.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    Alsmir said:

    If you can just dump a truck of money to cruise into 5* land and suddenly start grabbing top placements rewards with ease
    Welcome to the world of Free to Play mobile gaming!!
  • Impaxcible1
    Impaxcible1 Posts: 10 Just Dropped In
    It's a tough one..
    I decided to go from SCL8 to SCL7, and that one is do-able, which makes me think that staying at SCL8 will probably be either too hard, or I'll just barely make it (though I'm at day 168). But I'm not unhappy with this new structure
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Alsmir said:
    revskip said:
    Alsmir said:
    I'm seriously concerned about future of this game. At this time, not because of recent changes, but because of attitude of 5* players.

    I know that entire 5* meta is weird, inconsistent and drastically needs changes + improvements. Set lvl difficulties don't fix that, unless they come with SCL 9, 10 and changes to reward structure. That test just flooded the SCL 7, 8 with 5* players who kicked anyone else out of placement spots. Same thing that we had in PvP for long time.

    5* players got super easy fights, but everyone else got slapped into the face. That fixes nothing and you don't have to be that smart to realize that.

    It troubles me when I read "Let's make that permament, my opponents are super easy now and I can do full clear in 25 minutes." What about people who don't have 5* rosters? 3* players were pushed out of CL8, others keep facing similar or stronger opponents, but you only think about yourself. Disguisting.
    Not trying to be snarky but should 3* rosters really be taking top ten spots at the highest possible SCL?  I think if implemented correctly the test could work to do something that has been lacking for a while and that is spacing out the players a bit more which will help everyone.  

    SCL 8 should be for the top rosters, they spent the time and/or money to get the end game content (until they add 9/10).   SCL 7 should be for 4* rosters and 4* transitioners who have enough support 3*s that they can punch above their weight.  SCL 6 should be for early 4* transitioners and strong 3* teams, etc.  Stratifying the SCLs a little better than they have will help everyone.  

    The two issues I see with the test are people who up until now were able to compete at the top SCL will feel a bit bummed that they can no longer get a shot at the very top rewards, and that some of the biggest rosters are dropping down to other SCLs for a super easy mode eating up rewards meant for rosters that are less developed.  The latter seems to be far less widespread, in my bracket in SCL 7 there really are only two 5* rosters in the top ten.  

    I think if they implemented a floor as well as a ceiling people would be more likely to go to the most appropriate SCL for their roster.  I really liked KGB's general concept:

    KGB said:
    With this new scaling system DG3 should consider turning all clearance levels into a form of Heroic.

    SCL1: 1* characters only + the 2,3&4* essential
    SCL2-3: 1&2* characters only + the 3&4* essential
    SCL4-5: 1-3* characters only + the 4* essential
    SCL6-7: 1-4* characters only
    SCL8: any characters

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This way if someone with a top tier roster decides they want to drop down for an event for whatever reason they are still using the appropriate type of roster for the SCL they are playing in and aren't just stomping over everyone in their bracket by using their characters that others at the SCL don't have access to.  Most people who are solidly in 5* land have high level 4*s so they wouldn't be at any competitive disadvantage going to SCL 7 and using their 4*s there.  Most people with 4*s also have high level 3*s so if they chose to drop down to SCL 5 they would still retain an advantage but a much smaller one.  
    I guess I just don't understand why so many people expect that your games and placement are supposed to get much easier, when you have stronger roster. Maybe I'm silly, but I hope that is not the main idea behind MPQ. I;d like to imagine that devs want the game to be fun  and engaging for all rosters.
    Not the 5* beat anyone else, 4* beat similar and weaker rosters, but instead facing similar opponents no matter at what level of transition you are.

    If you can just dump a truck of money to cruise into 5* land and suddenly start grabbing top placements rewards with ease (already happening in PvP) then this is a massive waste of time and just an e-peen contest.


    My GOD, why are you so bitter in all your posts?

    Did a whale steal your lunch money and buy a 40 pack with it?

  • ZootSax
    ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    KGB said:
    With this new scaling system DG3 should consider turning all clearance levels into a form of Heroic.

    SCL1: 1* characters only + the 2,3&4* essential
    SCL2-3: 1&2* characters only + the 3&4* essential
    SCL4-5: 1-3* characters only + the 4* essential
    SCL6-7: 1-4* characters only
    SCL8: any characters

    Now if you want to drop down to SCL7 you can only use your 4* and below so those champed 5* won't be blowing through nodes that are capped at 270.

    It also means if you don't have good boosted 4* characters or want to take a break from high level PvE on an event you can drop to SCL5 or so and just take your 2&3* character teams out again for nostalgia reasons.

    KGB

    I really like this idea quite a bit.  If they opened up SCL9 and had something like two 4*'s in the progression to make it demonstrably better than SCL8 and implemented the "heroic" system similar to what you described, I feel like it would be a solid improvement across the board.  I haven't been remotely close to placement in PVE since the format changed from the 8hr clock and people got way more grindy, but on first glance it doesn't seem like there'd be a huge downside even for competitive players...
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    ZootSax said:
    I really like this idea quite a bit.  If they opened up SCL9 and had something like two 4*'s in the progression to make it demonstrably better than SCL8 and implemented the "heroic" system similar to what you described, I feel like it would be a solid improvement across the board. 
    Two 4s would be nice, but I'm not sure that's enough incentive to keep people from dropping down.   Especially now with vaulting, I don't foresee players having a problem skipping old 4*s in favor of easier competition/scaling.

    Thing to keep in mind is that the 5* players are also fairly well loaded in 4s, some boasting ones lvl 340+.   They won't have a problem dropping to 7 and using those characters (heck, they might welcome the change of pace).

    From players perspective, this is ultimately a "how do i get the most rewards for the least amount of time."  Devs need to keep that in mind as they set their scaling/rewards, because 1000iso isn't gonna be enough incentive to get someone to play an extra (up to) 2 hours a day.

  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    ZootSax said:
    I really like this idea quite a bit.  If they opened up SCL9 and had something like two 4*'s in the progression to make it demonstrably better than SCL8 and implemented the "heroic" system similar to what you described, I feel like it would be a solid improvement across the board. 
    Two 4s would be nice, but I'm not sure that's enough incentive to keep people from dropping down.   Especially now with vaulting, I don't foresee players having a problem skipping old 4*s in favor of easier competition/scaling.

    Thing to keep in mind is that the 5* players are also fairly well loaded in 4s, some boasting ones lvl 340+.   They won't have a problem dropping to 7 and using those characters (heck, they might welcome the change of pace).

    From players perspective, this is ultimately a "how do i get the most rewards for the least amount of time."  Devs need to keep that in mind as they set their scaling/rewards, because 1000iso isn't gonna be enough incentive to get someone to play an extra (up to) 2 hours a day.

    I think they should absolutely keep the ability to pick between several different SCLs so the players can choose what best fits their time commitment...   keeping the choice of "how do i get the most rewards for the least amount of time."  is extremely valuable.


    I'd love to see the devs hit the drawing board w.r.t. what rewards should be given at what SCLs, approach it in an organized way, de-emphasize placement rewards or cut them out completely and bake those rewards into a better progression reward structure.  I think the progression reward structure should take priority and the enemy levels should be re-tweaked to fit the best progression increments they can come up with... 


    Personally, I'd love to see placement rewards completely trivialized if not eliminated and progression rewards just build on each other as SCL increases...  Have all the progression rewards of SCL X be achieved in SCL X+1 by 60-70% of whatever they deem max progression should be.  That would make comparing one SCL's rewards with another SCL's extremely easy for anyone considering dropping down a level or two, they should be able to make a much more informed decision.  

  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    I finished the event in 1st place in SCL8, with most of my clears taking less than 30 minutes.  It was a huge improvement in time spent, but the difficulty was too easy.  I never even used my 5* Panther with Thanos because every fight was basically over after a single Court Death.

    My T10 was still filled with soft-cappers though and what I would really like to see is an increase in enemy level with a decrease in the number of clears required.  Make it harder - but keep the 30 minute clear times.

    Also, the number of screens you have to get through after a battle before you get to the next fight as just way too long - this is what slowed me down more than anything (I still believe largely due to my platform/device), but can't we get rid of some of this fluff???