Vintage Heroic Packs (3/30/17)

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  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm going to start with, thank you. Lots of people spilling salt here, but archiving (in a game that has vaults, "vaulting" is a poor term) is not a real problem. The focused heroes available helps with the wider problem of ISO starvation. These Vintage Tokens sound alright, and are what many have asked for. If it's a trial, the limited availability is fine.

    What I'm hoping to see is a special token added as an extremely limited, high-progress and high-placement token that only provides favorited characters at a reasonable ratio. At least 75% chance of the favorited Rare and 5% to 1% chance of the favorited Epic with 20 to 25% the Legendary. This is my dream for SCL9, for the Favorites Token to be in placement after the Legendary (giving something to achieve between 900 and 1200 in PVP) and in high placement (maybe top 5%, 50th PVE, 25th PVP). So only 2 total available per event. Perhaps it could find a place in season rewards some place after the 10-pack.
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,274 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Brigby wrote:
    Hi Everyone. I want to inform you all that this is not necessarily the final iteration nor is it necessarily the only solution that will be presented.

    Data evaluation is needed in order to determine how the store affects the entirety of the game and its players before being able to make adjustments, or even presenting an entirely new idea. We know it's not something that can be immediately ascertained, and I apologize for the delay, but it really is something that the developers will monitor and factor into whatever the eventual permanent solution may be.

    Translation: "we do not read/care about the forum users (basically your most loyal and eager fan base)
    and rely entirely on metrics to make our decisions"

    What a joke, this solves none of the problems introduced with vaulting.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2017
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    Brigby wrote:
    Hi Everyone. I want to inform you all that this is not necessarily the final iteration nor is it necessarily the only solution that will be presented.

    Data evaluation is needed in order to determine how the store affects the entirety of the game and its players before being able to make adjustments, or even presenting an entirely new idea. We know it's not something that can be immediately ascertained, and I apologize for the delay, but it really is something that the developers will monitor and factor into whatever the eventual permanent solution may be.

    Hey Brigby, just wanted to take a second to say a few words before things spiral completely out of control, as I sense they will.

    I just wanted to say thank you for what you do in terms of engagement and communication. I perceive it to be one of those largely thankless jobs, and I know how discouraging that can be at times, especially when it can kind of feel like you're the whipping boy in these sort of situations. You truly do seem like a cool dude with a good sense of humor, based on previous posts.

    By definition, the people on this board are by and large the hardcore fanatics of this game. We are interested and passionate enough to seek out the boards, check them and post to them, after all. Hence the very passionate replies on some of these threads.

    I know sometimes my snarky and sarcastic side gets the better of me, and even did earlier in this thread. Maybe not always the best of responses, but I still stand by the overall gist of my previous comments: 2*s diluting this store is not a welcome development, is aggravating and frustrating, and makes the developers seem entirely tone deaf.

    I truly hope you are sincere in that this is likely a first step and could be developed based on the data gathered after the store goes live. Ya gotta start somewhere. But there could have been so many better ways to start (plenty of suggestions on these boards, if they need ideas) and I just worry the developers may not get a very accurate picture based on that data.

    Three pages in, and it doesn't look like there's a whole lot of enthusiasm for buying from this store. I hope if that's the case, the response isn't, "Well, we gave them a chance to get those vintage characters, and nobody really chased after them. Maybe they don't want them that badly." And then that's the last we hear of it. Because if there's low engagement of this store, I hope they would understand that it's us saying, "Thanks, but that didn't cut it. Please try again."

    In fact, if I may be so bold, I would say that already seems to be the basic message being conveyed in midst of these posts so far. I know it's certainly my sentiment.
  • DrDevilDinosaur
    DrDevilDinosaur Posts: 436 Mover and Shaker
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    Hello, yes. I said a suggestion to clearance level 9 thread but I really like it and I think it would be a good diea for the new tokens packs in next week, and here is my idea for a puzzle token
    For Rank 9 I think they should remove all the iso/hp/cp/& cover rewards for both progression and placement. Instead just have puzzle tokens. Just, like, a whole lot of puzzle tokens at every possible juncture. Puzzle tokens would be like completely blind booster packs, and contain a random Puzzle piece. Players would be able to collect enough Puzzle pieces to complete a whole puzzle and then they would get to see a cool picture. The pictures wouldn't do anything except for to be cool to look at. Once you have finished a puzzle you can collect more puzzle pieces and make a different picture or maybe trade with your friends or print it out and keep it in your wallet.

    I think a lot of people just want more rewards like we already have, so they won't like this idea but I think it would be a good idea to have something different and anice picture to look at and collect puxxle pieces. than kyou

    Please make this so we can all have a nice or interesting puzzle to look at.
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
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    sinnerjfl wrote:
    Translation: "we do not read/care about the forum users (basically your most loyal and eager fan base and a tiny minority of the player base in general)
    and rely entirely on metrics to make our decisions"
    FTFY.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
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    A tiny minority of the overall player base, but generally representive of what that player base would or would not like to see happen.

    Girlfriend that is VERY representative of the average f2p player already on the verge of quiting before vaulting. Her 4 star progress ruined because of vaulting (only 2...well 1 once peggy gets vaulted...latest 12) just rolled her eyes when I told her about yet another glorified 2 star token.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'd be way more worried about this if it wasn't being released clearly in trial format. Don't buy it, and it won't be the final solution. Fairly simple answer.

    As far as the classic LT, that's clearly a response to the overwhelming push towards CP going towards latest. They're removing part of the 'choice' players are making. This is a bit more disturbing, but again not worth freaking out over. Especially if these classics are eventually re-diluted with older characters.
  • Infrared
    Infrared Posts: 240 Tile Toppler
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    I would be happy if the vintage packs drew from the same bank of existing heroic tokens. So if you have hoarded 50 tokens, you could choose to spend 20 on vintage and 30 on regular heroic packs.

    But I suspect that a change like that would require a program update to the app. And that takes weeks to push through their production pipeline and app store clearance process. Whereas pushing out a separate and new type of token pack is much simpler, because the framework for it already exists from anniversary tokens in the past and such. It can be done with the daily data push. So I see this more as a transition measure. The small thing they can do now, while they work on the bigger stuff in the future app update.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,579 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Now, if this was a precursor to actually changing the Classic Legendaries to being the Vaulted heroes and oldest 5*, then I think that'd be something people could get behind (not everyone, but enough to stem the tide). As it is now, at best it's going sideways and at worst making people pay money for the vaulted characters instead of being able to consistently earn tokens for them.

    No thank you, why needlessly limit the classic legendary to the vaulted 4*'s when it would be far more useful to people if it included vaulted and the latest 12.
  • Ayasugi-san
    Ayasugi-san Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
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    Everybody, don't buy from this pack. Think about not cashing in the tokens you get as rewards. Just give the pack the cold shoulder and let it collect cobwebs until the devs get the message that it is not an acceptable solution.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2017
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    That assumes the hundred or so people on these forums are the only customers at all, or the only customers worth caring about. Which, to be fair, is an assumption I've seen made on a lot of forums in my day, so it's not like it's specific to this one. They have to balance what these forums want with what they think the rest of the playerbase wants. Which is a task that sits somewhere between really difficult and impossible.

    There is a simple solution to the problem of different groups wanting different things though. offer more than one version of each LT.

    You could have the current ones with just the latest 12 4*, two more with all 4*s and since some people seem to ask for it, you could even have one that excluded the latest 4*, no complex coding or limited availability, people simply being able to choose how they wanted their roster to progress.

    As far as heroic tokens, they were not really the problem people had with vaulting in the first place as we so rarely get 4*s out of them anyway, so them moving to latest 12 4* without the change to the LTs would have actually been a reasonably welcome little bump in the speed of collecting newer 4*s.
  • Felonius
    Felonius Posts: 289 Mover and Shaker
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    == Vintage Heroic Packs PROS ==
    • Players get "more" access to vaulted characters. More, in this case, being of the "...it's very easy to take more than nothing..." Alice in Wonderland's Mad Hatter variety, not any substantial, noticeable increase.

    == Vintage Heroic Packs CONS ==

    • There's just no reason 2* should be involved in the Vaulting Solution. At. All. There are plenty of other places to get 2* covers. The answer to Vaulting required real access to the Vaulted characters and I don't recall any 2* being Vaulted.
    • The limited Off-Season-Only availability of this store.
    • Most players are only going to get 2-6 of these from playing.
    • Any additional access will require premium funds (ie MONEY)...
    • Did I mention there are 2* are in there?
    Hmm... That's just off the top of my head.

    While I tend to look to the positive in things, and therefore think MPQ with Vintage Heroic Packs is better than MPQ without Vintage Heroic Packs, it's such a slight step in the "right direction" that realistically is hardly a step at all. Over 50 pages of discussion in the forums and this is the Dev's first thing to try? Pathetic.

    Epic Fail, guys. Really.

    icon_e_confused.gif
  • hodayathink
    hodayathink Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
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    Crowl wrote:
    Now, if this was a precursor to actually changing the Classic Legendaries to being the Vaulted heroes and oldest 5*, then I think that'd be something people could get behind (not everyone, but enough to stem the tide). As it is now, at best it's going sideways and at worst making people pay money for the vaulted characters instead of being able to consistently earn tokens for them.

    No thank you, why needlessly limit the classic legendary to the vaulted 4*'s when it would be far more useful to people if it included vaulted and the latest 12.

    Because the whole reason for the token existing in the first place is because people want access to the older 4* heroes in a token. Why dilute said token with the heroes you're going to be getting from everywhere else.

    That being said, dilution is a problem that needs to be solved at some point, and adding the vaulted to classics basically just kicks that problem down the road instead of actually attempting to fix it (bonus heroes is an actual attempt to fix it, but the frequency of them means many have rejected it as an actual solution as it stands right now).
  • metallion
    metallion Posts: 276 Mover and Shaker
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    I don't get it, the answer is all the while right in front of their eyes in the names of the 2 LTs. CLASSICS. Which part of 12 latest 4*s screams CLASSICS to them? Just leave the 12 LATEST 4*s in the LATEST LTs, and let anyone who want to cover them pay that 5CP more.

    To drive the point home further, 4*s are labelled as LEGENDARY, while 5*s are labelled as Epic. Why the heck are LEGENDARY tokens sorting only Epic class characters instead of also the character class the token was supposedly named after?

    How many pages of suggestions did you guys actually skim through? Even reading each post at a rate of 2 seconds per post you should have been able to pick up some decent ideas here and there, but you went with the one idea no one came up with? Just... Speechless
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Okay... wow.

    Let me see if I get this straight...

    1. Vaulting occurs and the forum damn near riots.

    2. Players point out all the ways this hurts players at all stages.

    3. Developers say, "we are monitoring and listening to your feedback and are looking at possible solutions".

    3. Players say, just let us know before you roll out changes, communicate with us so we can tell you what we think.

    4. Almost every other suggestion says heroics can be left alone since it's not a main source of 4* rewards anyway. But the main problem is there are no way to get vaulted characters from the main source of obtaining 4s (Legendary Tokens).

    5. After a month of silence we get yet another change to the game that was not discussed with us ahead of time.

    6. Not a single suggestion from the players was looked at, and what changed was the one token (heroic) that people did not care about characters being vaulted in since the odds of pulling a 4 are so low there anyway.

    7. Not only does this solution target the wrong tokens, but it is only available for a limited time and continues to push the "pay to win" and "increased scarcity" models that have appeared post-vaulting.

    8. Forum members riot again, seeing just how blatantly insulting this solution is.

    My only question to Brigby and the developers is did you REALLY think people would be happy with this?? Like at all?? Are you all THAT out of touch with your player base?

    As an addendum we get another "we're still looking into it".
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Brigby wrote:
    Hi Everyone. I want to inform you all that this is not necessarily the final iteration nor is it necessarily the only solution that will be presented.

    Data evaluation is needed in order to determine how the store affects the entirety of the game and its players before being able to make adjustments, or even presenting an entirely new idea. We know it's not something that can be immediately ascertained, and I apologize for the delay, but it really is something that the developers will monitor and factor into whatever the eventual permanent solution may be.

    First off Brigby...... thank you. Seriously thank you. Your efforts to play middle man are amazing and the communication is great.

    That being said many of us are still upset. Statements from the devs needing to gather data before they make changes feels like a slap to the face.

    We got no advance notice or discussion prior to vaulting being dumped on us. Where was the data gather on that? We hear nothing from the devs on ideas or game direction. We just get something dropped on our heads with like 2 days notice.

    It's obvious this idea did not work. The fact they are trying more changes makes that clear. How about while they come up with something even partially decent they rewind the tokens to how they were before vaulting but leave bonus heroes. That way you still get even distribution across all characters but can still focus fire a few.

    I am fairly confident the majority of players here would be ecstatic.
  • GigDgee
    GigDgee Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
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    JHawkInc wrote:
    I can't tell the dev team what I accurately think because I lack the patience to explain it in a civil manner, and the alternative won't make it past the word filters.

    And given the blatant disregard for all of the requested solutions, I'm just a tad too exasperated to spell out how to fix this mess. Because I think we could come up with a golden plan on the forums and hand it to you on a platter and it would be ignored.

    THIS!

    I've been so frustrated over this tinykitty show that I couldn't even compose a message like this one. Just... thank you for articulating the thought for me.
  • Frustrated1
    Frustrated1 Posts: 68 Match Maker
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    It really shows what the devs think of their players.

    This is shameful.
  • Frustrated1
    Frustrated1 Posts: 68 Match Maker
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    The major alliances (and everyone on this board) should lead a complete spending boycott. Starting now.
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It's nonsense like this that led me to not renew my VIP.

    All you guys had to do was rotate the vaulted characters into tokens every season. 50% newest, 50% vintage. That's it, 24 4*s in each pack. Dilution addressed, problem solved. Everybody happy.

    But no. We get another RnG driven cash grab.

    Nope. Not a fan.