1.10.2 Release Notes *Updated (3/9/17)

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Comments

  • Fiddler
    Fiddler Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    Houdin wrote:
    As an aside to the question of nerfing Baral, D3 can not Nerf Baral without refunding all purchases of him. That would be a direct violation of Google's terms of service for app developers

    When you downloaded and used the app you agreed to D3PA's end user license agreement (EULA). Effectively you granted them the right to do this. If you challenged it in court precedent says you would likely win. But who's going to do that?
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    GrizzoMtGPQ wrote:
    Devs,

    How about establishing the Player council? You could have run the pummeler nerf by us? It's too much.

    How about the all time top coalitions each get a seat on the council? Then feedback could be more direct instead of relying on surveys. The top 10 coalitions represent probably at least 400 of the top players/whales in the game.
    A player council is an idea that has been passed around before, but we need to be careful about how something like that would be implemented. Having members from the top 10 coalitions would be great, but we would want to make sure that the entire player base can be represented, and not just the top players / supporters.

    It's a complicated system to potentially set up, not just from a design standpoint, but from various other perspectives as well. Feel free to shoot me a message if you'd like to talk more about it.
    THEMAGICkMAN wrote:
    I'm going to mention the #1 thing that has come with this announcement.

    The Communication!


    seriously, i thought the communication from the dev threads was great... but this puts it to shame


    pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease keep it up!
    Well we knew some of these might've been big changes for players, so we wanted to make sure we were available to answer any questions and comments the community had. Thanks for being a part of the discussion! icon_e_smile.gif
    Fiddler wrote:
    The Mana Jewels can only be earned, not bought?
    Mana Jewels are being added but no changes to Runes? -snip-
    Mana Jewels are available in some Special Offers, but we still wanted to give players plenty of opportunities to earn them in-game, so you'll see them mostly as rewards in events. As of right now, I personally am unaware of any changes being made to Runes.
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,090 Chairperson of the Boards
    Regarding Gonti's Aether Heart.... think it would have been okay with 5 shields too for a myrhic if it looses one on activation.
  • sunprincess
    sunprincess Posts: 22 Just Dropped In
    I am of another opinion - many of these announcememts were overtly vague and underwhelming.

    A lot of these changes seem to be reworked to increase profits, with promises of fixed solutions. If there is no actual statistical information as to why drop rates are better for players, for all we know, we are less likely to receive duplicates per pack simply because there are fewer cards than before :')
  • Hibernum_JC
    Hibernum_JC Posts: 318 Mover and Shaker
    khurram wrote:
    Regarding Gonti's Aether Heart.... think it would have been okay with 5 shields too for a myrhic if it looses one on activation.

    It initially was at 5 shields, but internal testing showed it was still attaining near-infinite levels of powers, which was a very large problem, so we had to reduce it to 3.

    It's still incredibly potent, just not completely broken like it was before.

    As a side effect, it will also make the final nodes of Revolt Against the Consulate easier.
  • GrizzoMtGPQ
    GrizzoMtGPQ Posts: 776 Critical Contributor
    What?! Don't make the RAC 3rd node easier!! It was fine how it was. We lost sometimes, that makes it actually fun.
  • octal9
    octal9 Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
    khurram wrote:
    It says that the super packs and premuim packs contain basic boosters. Currently a basic booster contains just 3 cards.
    Via page 1:
    Cthulhu wrote:
    1. Overall the amount of cards in the big box was 70 cards with a guaranteed rare or mythic, we have reduced the cost and the amount of cards to 25 cards (600 crystals down to 300 crystals). The idea for this was quality over quantity.
    Yeah the terminology is off but this verifies that number of cards in the premium/super packs.
  • Houdin
    Houdin Posts: 182 Tile Toppler
    So where as I agree the communication is awesome and I would love to see "dev talk" become a weekly thing even for a few hours.
    I am a little disappointed with the slightly evasive answers about drop rates and no answer to the cheating question.

    I'm a whale. I can admit it. I don't care. I really enjoy this game and o don't really spend money on anything else sonic this is my poison, so be it.

    However, I haven't really spent much lately after I opened seven big boxes in a row without a single mythic which made 11 big boxes with one mythic and only added three cards to my collection. The probability for that is astronomical using paper magic drop rates as a bench mark.

    If the devs could respond with a "we guarantee this will never happen again" which shouldn't be impossible as the odds of that happening twice to the same person would be a number that isn't even within human comprehension. Then I will be on board again with spending my hard earned money on the game. I'd just like to be sure that there is no alteration to drop rate odds straight up.
    Houdin
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    octal9 wrote:
    khurram wrote:
    It says that the super packs and premuim packs contain basic boosters. Currently a basic booster contains just 3 cards.
    Via page 1:
    Cthulhu wrote:
    1. Overall the amount of cards in the big box was 70 cards with a guaranteed rare or mythic, we have reduced the cost and the amount of cards to 25 cards (600 crystals down to 300 crystals). The idea for this was quality over quantity.
    Yeah the terminology is off but this verifies that number of cards in the premium/super packs.
    If I'm not mistaken, only the thematic boosters (Werewolves and Villagers, for example) and the free daily booster contain 3 cards. All other boosters contain 5 cards.

    In addition, Cthulhu was referencing only 1 Premium Pack at 25+1 Cards. Since Premium Packs are only 300 Crystals, you could get 2 of them for the same amount of Crystals as a Big Box, and get the benefit of an additional Bonus Rare as well.
  • losdamianos
    losdamianos Posts: 429 Mover and Shaker
    so now you can get for 600 manacrystal.png 70 cards + one guaranteed rare or batter
    soon for 600 manacrystal.png you will be able to get 50 cards (25+25) which is 20 less cards + 2 guaranteed rares or better net loss of 20 cards which is fatpack worth 200 manacrystal.png
  • Volrak
    Volrak Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    Houdin wrote:
    I opened seven big boxes in a row without a single mythic which made 11 big boxes with one mythic and only added three cards to my collection. The probability for that is astronomical using paper magic drop rates as a bench mark.

    If the devs could respond with a "we guarantee this will never happen again" which shouldn't be impossible as the odds of that happening twice to the same person would be a number that isn't even within human comprehension.
    Firstly, paper magic drop rates are highly non-random; each pack of 15 cards has a guaranteed rare, and mythics used to (maybe still do) drop according to fixed deterministic patterns. There's no equivalence to mtgpq's drop system.

    Opening 11 big boxes with only 1 mythic puts you in the unluckiest 1%; for every person with the same luck there are ~100 people with better luck. If you opened 22 big boxes and got only 2 mythics, you'd be in the unluckiest 0.01%; that would be ~10,000 people with better luck for every person with your luck. I feel compelled to point out that that's not only firmly within human comprehension, but given the size of the player base, it's very likely that it has happened or will happen to somebody. And no doubt that person will feel even more disillusioned and uninclined to spend more money on the game.

    So we have something that's bound to happen, and yet is bad for the game. This is the kind of reasoning which (I imagine) led games like Hearthstone to implement a pity timer; this is a non-random element to the algorithm which guarantees you will never reach a stretch of 40 packs of any given set without opening a single a top-tier rarity (in their case, legendary) card.
  • Volrak
    Volrak Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    losdamianos wrote:
    so now you can get for 600 manacrystal.png 70 cards + one guaranteed rare or batter
    soon for 600 manacrystal.png you will be able to get 50 cards (25+25) which is 20 less cards + 2 guaranteed rares or better net loss of 20 cards which is fatpack worth 200 manacrystal.png
    Based on current drop rates from octal's spreadsheet, for every 1,000 manacrystal.png you currently spend on 70-card big boxes with 1 guaranteed rare, you can expect on average:
    • 1.1 mythics
    • 6.5 rares
    • 41.9 uncommons
    • 68.9 commons
    With the same drop rates, for every 1,000 manacrystal.png you spent on 25-card premium packs with 1 guaranteed rare, you could expect on average:
    • 0.8 mythics
    • 8.1 rares
    • 29.9 uncommons
    • 49.2 commons
    So we'd be better off with rares, but worse-off with mythics (and uncommons and commons.. which is irrelevant for high-tier players, but might not be great for new players).

    Be careful making too much of these figures in isolation; we have to consider the whole package of changes, which includes possibly 3x the amount of prizes given out for ranking highly in events (due to event player pool shrinking from 3,000 to 1,000), and the ability to earn elite packs, which looks significant. There may also be some change to ranking prizes (at the very least, adding mana jewels, and possibly removing some other prizes to balance). These numbers also exclude the chance of opening masterpiece cards from KLD packs, for which we don't know the odds.
  • THEMAGICkMAN
    THEMAGICkMAN Posts: 697 Critical Contributor
    Volrak wrote:
    losdamianos wrote:
    so now you can get for 600 manacrystal.png 70 cards + one guaranteed rare or batter
    soon for 600 manacrystal.png you will be able to get 50 cards (25+25) which is 20 less cards + 2 guaranteed rares or better net loss of 20 cards which is fatpack worth 200 manacrystal.png
    Based on current drop rates from octal's spreadsheet, for every 1,000 manacrystal.png you currently spend on 70-card big boxes with 1 guaranteed rare, you can expect on average:
    • 1.1 mythics
    • 6.5 rares
    • 41.9 uncommons
    • 68.9 commons
    With the same drop rates, for every 1,000 manacrystal.png you spent on 25-card premium packs with 1 guaranteed rare, you could expect on average:
    • 0.8 mythics
    • 8.1 rares
    • 29.9 uncommons
    • 49.2 commons
    So we'd be better off with rares, but worse-off with mythics (and uncommons and commons.. which is irrelevant for high-tier players, but might not be great for new players).

    Be careful making too much of these figures in isolation; we have to consider the whole package of changes, which includes possibly 3x the amount of prizes given out for ranking highly in events (due to event player pool shrinking from 3,000 to 1,000), and the ability to earn elite packs, which looks significant. There may also be some change to ranking prizes (at the very least, adding mana jewels, and possibly removing some other prizes to balance); we can't know exactly whether we're "worse off" under 1.10.2 until those details are released.

    I think we should take into account that these new packs also cost less - VERY important for the new/casual player base. It's important not to forget them, and a decent amount of recent changes and additions seem to be targeted at that portion of the player base.
  • majincob
    majincob Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    Brigby wrote:
    Super Packs and Premium Packs
    Introducing the new Super and Premium Packs! Super Packs and Premium Packs are available for the Origins Set, the Battle for Zendikar Block, the Shadows of Innistrad Block, and the Kaladesh Block.

    The Super Pack contains three basic Booster Packs, and the Premium Pack contains five Basic Booster Packs. In addition, the Premium Pack contains a bonus Rare Card! These offers will replace the old Fat Pack and Big Box offers.

    In addition, Booster Packs from the Kaladesh Block will now have a small chance to contain Masterpiece Cards!
    What happens to these?:

    TuTEo1w.png?1


    I'm holding all non-BB prize packs until all the exclusives are available. But I want to know what is going to happen with this update. I can think of a few scenarios:
      1. They stay the same with the additional new packs showing up.
    [list=2]If so, will the drop rates in them change? Will Masterpiece cards be possible to pull in them?[/list]
      2. 1x 5 card packs stay the same and I lose all my fatpacks
    [list=2]Worst possible outcome[/list]
      3. 1x 5 card packs stay the same and all my fatpacks are converted to Super Packs (going from 20+1 cards to 15 cards each)
    [list=2]Not very happy about this either as drop rates per card opened hasn't been confirmed to be changed one way or the other.[/list]
    Cthulhu wrote:
    It's an attempt to fix duplicates, for Masterpieces you should not see duplicates because of how the system works for those, you have the opportunity to get a card when you want to spend the new currency.

    For the boosters, you have less cards at less cost, I haven't seen 3 of the same card opening a pack like I did previously.

    So when they say duplicate are fixed, what the players want to be true is that the algorithm skews your random card to be less likely to be a card you already have, but what I'm reading here is that they reduced the number of cards in a pack so that you have less of a chance of getting the same card multiple times within the pack.

    Are drop rates changing at all? We haven't heard either way. Honestly, the actual odds should be published. I don't care if they want to tweak them weekly, they should list the odds of pulling each rarity with each draw. For all we know they are making the odds of pulling mythics even worse with the new update and I'm losing expected value for hording packs this whole time. And honestly if I knew they were planning on changing it, I could at least make an informed decision whether to crack them now or wait until I have a shot at exclusives.

    Another question I have: Are they changing the bonus card to rares only instead of rare or better? Are we losing the chance at mythics there in exchange for the new packs that require a different currency? Basically it feels like they are reducing the chance of getting mythics in regular packs and instead are going to make mythics almost exclusively the realm of the new packs which you can only get through doing very well in events or paying cash for.

    I mean, in theory it could be alright for ELITE players if they dropped mythic rates and jacked up rare rates as long as it's theoretically possible to get all the mythics you REALLY want through event prizes. You'd almost never pull dupe mythics in packs/event rewards if they don't really offer them in that format any longer. Now to complete the cycle, they just need to implement converting manarune.png to :mtgjewel:
  • octal9
    octal9 Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
    Brigby wrote:
    If I'm not mistaken, only the thematic boosters (Werewolves and Villagers, for example) and the free daily booster contain 3 cards. All other boosters contain 5 cards.
    The 8hr free booster is called a "Basic Booster" and also contains three cards, which I assume is where khurram was approaching the problem from.
  • THEMAGICkMAN
    THEMAGICkMAN Posts: 697 Critical Contributor
    So you guys totally just played golf with the economy of the game and threw the results into an update.

    Nah but for real, after thinking about these changes I actually really like them. In theory they sound alright, I guess only time will tell.
  • Cthulhu
    Cthulhu ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 410 Site Admin
    Thank you! Will continue to review the thread and put questions/topics together for discussion with the team. Appreciate the feedback!
  • THEMAGICkMAN
    THEMAGICkMAN Posts: 697 Critical Contributor
    I also just realised something about the Gontis heart nerf,

    Tezzeret won't be able to kill me on turn 1 again! Yay! Losing on T1 to a pve boss is no fun
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2017
    Cthulhu wrote:
    Thank you! Will continue to review the thread and put questions/topics together for discussion with the team. Appreciate the feedback!

    Thanks, but please let them know in particular we REALLY need an answer to Majincob's post, because numerous players hoard packs. It isn't right to potentially burden them, and since this is presumably time-sensitive (with the weekend coming), it would be great to get fast response.
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    madwren wrote:
    Cthulhu wrote:
    Thank you! Will continue to review the thread and put questions/topics together for discussion with the team. Appreciate the feedback!

    Thanks, but please let them know in particular we REALLY need an answer to Majincob's post, because numerous players hoard packs. It isn't right to potentially burden them, and since this is presumably time-sensitive (with the weekend coming), it would be great to get fast response.
    Not to worry! I've gone ahead and reached out to the development team with that question. I'll update this post when I hear back from them.

    Update: Old boosters will be removed from the vault, however they will always be claimable, even after the update. Once those boosters are claimed, the category will then disappear.

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