Please nerf Baral

GrizzoMtGPQ

Pleeeeease?!

Steeme

I was just about to thank them for allowing me to purchase it. Restricting all the goodies for the top of the leaderboards isn't good for anyone.

But I'm curious, why do you want it nerfed?

1. It dies to 5-cost removal
2. It gets disabled just like anything else
3. Startled awake + Deploy combos already exist

Also, do you remember Olivia? Many people cried about P2W, nerf this, nerf that. Nothing happened. And guess what? Nothing needed to happen.

AngelForge

Steeme wrote:

I was just about to thank them for allowing me to purchase it. Restricting all the goodies for the top of the leaderboards isn't good for anyone.

But I'm curious, why do you want it nerfed?

1. It dies to 5-cost removal
2. It gets disabled just like anything else
3. Startled awake + Deploy combos already exist

Also, do you remember Olivia? Many people cried about P2W, nerf this, nerf that. Nothing happened. And guess what? Nothing needed to happen.

I agree, that it's to early to say anything about Baral, but I object to your statement that nothing needs to happen in general (especially to all the overpowered cards already in the game).

span_argoman

Steeme wrote:

I was just about to thank them for allowing me to purchase it. Restricting all the goodies for the top of the leaderboards isn't good for anyone.

But I'm curious, why do you want it nerfed?

1. It dies to 5-cost removal
2. It gets disabled just like anything else
3. Startled awake + Deploy combos already exist

Also, do you remember Olivia? Many people cried about P2W, nerf this, nerf that. Nothing happened. And guess what? Nothing needed to happen.

Olivia is blatantly over-powered. Along with Deploy the Gatewatch and Gonti's Aether Heart. She is too strong as a single card and is warping the meta just by her existence. Ditto Gonti's Aether Heart. And Baral falls under the same category.

Baral giving spells mana and drawing cards on casting a spell means that you can create OHKOs by building spell-heavy decks. Essentially decks can be built to win the moment Baral is summoned.

Relating to the 3 disadvantages you mentioned:
1. The reason why 5-mana creature removal is good is cause aside from removing the persistent damage that a creature gives, you get a better trade on mana costs. Baral costs 8 mana for a 5/5 so the player didn't lose all that much. Add in the 3 mana to each spell in hand and the Baral player is ahead.
2. This is assuming the match lasts beyond the turn Baral is summoned.
3. Baral falls more into the Gonti's Aether Heart category than Startled Awake + Deploy the Gatewatch.

Just because they don't change it doesn't mean that the cards aren't over-powered. But in any case they are unlikely to nerf paid mythics. So we'll have to live with it.

buscemi

Stuff it. You know what? I've had enough of playing this game fair. Nobody else seems to be. I reckon Baral is bust as all hell, and I think I'll put my money where my mouth is and try and prove it.

This game could last 20 years like paper MTG, but they're determined to run it into the ground as fast as possible. Let's go nuts. Have your $30. I could do with 10,000 runes, anyway.

Dies to removal

Steeme

span_argoman wrote:

Steeme wrote:

I was just about to thank them for allowing me to purchase it. Restricting all the goodies for the top of the leaderboards isn't good for anyone.

But I'm curious, why do you want it nerfed?

1. It dies to 5-cost removal
2. It gets disabled just like anything else
3. Startled awake + Deploy combos already exist

Also, do you remember Olivia? Many people cried about P2W, nerf this, nerf that. Nothing happened. And guess what? Nothing needed to happen.

Olivia is blatantly over-powered. Along with Deploy the Gatewatch and Gonti's Aether Heart. She is too strong as a single card and is warping the meta just by her existence. Ditto Gonti's Aether Heart. And Baral falls under the same category.

Baral giving spells mana and drawing cards on casting a spell means that you can create OHKOs by building spell-heavy decks. Essentially decks can be built to win the moment Baral is summoned.

Relating to the 3 disadvantages you mentioned:
1. The reason why 5-mana creature removal is good is cause aside from removing the persistent damage that a creature gives, you get a better trade on mana costs. Baral costs 8 mana for a 5/5 so the player didn't lose all that much. Add in the 3 mana to each spell in hand and the Baral player is ahead.
2. This is assuming the match lasts beyond the turn Baral is summoned.
3. Baral falls more into the Gonti's Aether Heart category than Startled Awake + Deploy the Gatewatch.

Just because they don't change it doesn't mean that the cards aren't over-powered. But in any case they are unlikely to nerf paid mythics. So we'll have to live with it.

First of all, show me a chain of spell cards that cost 3 mana that will OHKO your opponent.

Second, on the topic of Olivia, she's not the goddess you're making her out to be. Her high cost comes at a big risk of being thrown out or being too slow. She also requires plenty of draw to fuel her and subsequent cards.

The issue is when players who have access to all of the key cards come up with insane combos. I don't see how singling out specific cards will address this issue, because they will just switch to other combos. How come no-one is crying about Ulenvaald Hydra? That thing is sick in a Kiora loop. Yet here we are picking on Baral.

buscemi wrote:

Stuff it. You know what? I've had enough of playing this game fair. Nobody else seems to be. I reckon Baral is bust as all hell, and I think I'll put my money where my mouth is and try and prove it.

This game could last 20 years like paper MTG, but they're determined to run it into the ground as fast as possible. Let's go nuts. Have your $30. I could do with 10,000 runes, anyway.

Dies to removal

Atta boy! Welcome to the club. Just insert credit card here, and wreck face in Nodes of Mercicide!

morgue427

at first blush he looks a lot like curious humonculus with daring investigator combined really good card but i think it will be hard to really get to a one turn knockout honestly. and as has been said before 5 mana and he is gone doesnt fly isnt unblockable, hell and is only 5/5 a lot of decent walls will kill him or at the very least almost do it. yes i did buy it but that was because i wanted to try to make j2 a spell oriented pw instead of the support i have him as now to make him faster.

Skiglass6

And nyx and heart. Either:
1) Put countdown timer on shield when activated.
2) Give us targeted support removal. Maybe 2 categories like destruction. Remove target support and remove 1st support (not counting clue or fabricate)

And hixus. Either:
1) Make it when creature does damage to PW, disable until end of next player's turn. May need to bump shield up to 2 or go wild and give it 3.
2) Give us cards that "un-tap" (which seems to be a prevalent mechanic in MtG)

Oh and off-topic. Buff silverstrike to 2 shield. Why a 9 mana removal doesn't get a chance to remove when insidious will can stay longer at 6 mana.

AngelForge

When you play Saheeli and if you are lucky you can win in the turn Baral is played, if you combine Coastal Discovery with Devour in Flames (these are cards that I own, better combos may be available) and enough other spells to circle through your deck. ^^
But together with Harness of the Storm it should be doable?

AngelForge

Skiglass6 wrote:

...
Oh and off-topic. Buff silverstrike to 2 shield. Why a 9 mana removal doesn't get a chance to remove when insidious will can stay longer at 6 mana.

I'd go the other way and nerf Insidious Will...

Steeme

AngelForge wrote:

When you play Saheeli and if you are lucky you can win in the turn Baral is played, if you combine Coastal Discovery with Devour in Flames (these are cards that I own, better combos may be available) and enough other spells to circle through your deck. ^^
But together with Harness of the Storm it should be doable?

I realized afterwards that you might have a fun link with J2, but it requires getting his ultimate down and either saving Baral or having him survive to loop + buff for a one-shot. Maybe with Haunted cloak + Coastal + Scatter, etc. However, this requires:

1. Banking Baral in your hand or having him survive for the combo
2. Building up to ultimate

See, with J2, you can already get nasty combos and win huge with his ultimate. So there is basically no change there. And we should only be considering what the AI can do with the cards.

What does the AI need to do to become unbearable to opponents:
1. Bank Baral (not gonna happen as the AI plays all cards ASAP)
2. Play Baral and have the opponent just ignore him (too bad, so sad)
3. Reach ultimate, drop the support, drop Baral, chain the spells

AI is not going to reach ultimate without a ridiculously glorious cascade. In which case you were probably going to get overrun anyways unless it was a **** deck to being with.

buscemi

Skiglass6 wrote:

And nyx and heart

Please don't nerf this game piecemeal. The entire game is knackered from top to bottom and needs a total overhaul. The game designer looks what he has wrought, and says to himself, 'Creatures HAVE to be as good as Olivia and Metalwork Colossus and Lightning Runner, because they die to removal!' without considering that maybe the abundance of 5 mana removal is a problem in itself. If Tidy Conclusion and Unlicenced Disintergration are somehow part of the solution to that problem, then we need the rest of that solution stat. We're all so used to using cards like Shrine and Journal in every deck that we don't even consider them to be overpowered. Combo cards like Prism Array and Mirrorpool and Part the Waterveil are not balanced just because when you read the text they look like they might be a little difficult to play with; you have to actually playtest them and find out if that's true. And, hey! We all did! And they're too good.

Just keep printing more and more OP cards. Look, even I bought one this time around, your business plan is working!

Skiglass6

words, devour in flames, words
pac-man end screen
game over

AettThorn

LOL. This guy is great.

Dovin Baan:

Baral
Aetherflux Reservoir

Coastal Discovery
Ethereal Guidance
Lithomancer's Focus
Not Forgotten
Strength of Arms
Stratus Walk
Haunted Cloak
Built to Last

My turn only ends when my hand gets filled with Barals and Aetherflux. Otherwise, it's just constantly buffing up my creatures until they attack and kill in one turn.

buscemi

I'm going to use him in the blue node in EmO with my lvl1 Tezzeret who I haven't leveled up yet, that way I get to go against other lvl 1 planeswalkers. It's really easy to kill them in 5 turns.

It's a shame that most of us can't bust our other planeswalkers down to level 1 to exploit the event systems, but don't forget, Saheeli Rai will be available soon! Exploits for everyone!

losdamianos

funny thing is that this was noted before AER was even released!
problem with baral is that its to easy for AI to play gigantic combos hence you can set a pretty good deck playable by AI and cause horror for other players

anyway floodgates are open anyway you cant nerf paid cars they are paid for a reason PAY TO WIN

andrewvanmarle

NO.

Decks built around baral to win fail when they dont draw him soon enough. 3 mana spells are meagre at best and the amount of spells a PW can use is a big factor in why he doesn't'set up for one turn kills.

AettThorn

andrewvanmarle wrote:

NO.

Decks built around baral to win fail when they dont draw him soon enough. 3 mana spells are meagre at best and the amount of spells a PW can use is a big factor in why he doesn't'set up for one turn kills.

Using my deck above, I have indeed gotten one-turn kills. I've also won every match in QB that I've come across, even when I don't get Baral until turn 7 or 8. Granted, I probably got lucky in that match that the opponent didn't get a massive cascade or bring out an Olivia or something, but one turn kills are indeed possible.

span_argoman

andrewvanmarle wrote:

NO.

Decks built around baral to win fail when they dont draw him soon enough. 3 mana spells are meagre at best and the amount of spells a PW can use is a big factor in why he doesn't'set up for one turn kills.

Blue planeswalker spell limitations
Origins Jace: 10 spells
Tezzeret: 8 spells
Kiora: 8 spells
Dovin Baan: 8 spells
Saheeli: 7 spells
Jace 2.0: 5 spells

I doubt spell limitation is going to be an issue except for Jace 2.0. Kiora can fetch Baral which coupled with Green conversion makes her a nice host for Baral.

In any case, I wish those of you who bought Baral lots of fun discovering Baral's OP-ness. What's one more when we already have so many right.

buscemi

AettThorn wrote:

andrewvanmarle wrote:

NO.

Decks built around baral to win fail when they dont draw him soon enough. 3 mana spells are meagre at best and the amount of spells a PW can use is a big factor in why he doesn't'set up for one turn kills.

Using my deck above, I have indeed gotten one-turn kills. I've also won every match in QB that I've come across, even when I don't get Baral until turn 7 or 8. Granted, I probably got lucky in that match that the opponent didn't get a massive cascade or bring out an Olivia or something, but one turn kills are indeed possible.

And if you keep casting Scatter to the Winds, EVERY turn is turn 1!

Incidentally, when they inevitably nerf him, what's our legal recourse? Can we demand refunds, or are we all just screwed?

bk1234

Have they ever nerfed a P2P card? I don't think so.

Isn't that the point?