New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

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Comments

  • Xzasxz
    Xzasxz Posts: 124 Tile Toppler
    mexus wrote:
    Xzasxz wrote:
    mexus wrote:
    Xzasxz wrote:
    And one more thing, I didn't see anybody mentioned - Lightning Rounds. What are powered-up/essential characters in every single round? Loki, Doctor Doom, Ragnarok, Mystique, Magneto. Regardless that many times players asked for some diversity, all the time same five. Which of them are in the packs? Only Loki. And propably not for long.
    What about other modes with powered-up/featured heroes? Will the characters that not in the packs be powered up?
    Yes? How the newer players are to play? Already ca 75% heroes will be out of reach - forget maximum progression rewards in Story mode, forget good placements in both modes.
    No? Are You joking? Are You going to kill the last remnants of diversity?

    And once again I make my point: 510 days playing. Thousands of hours. Now, when I am so close, just few covers to max my long desired heroes, like Red Hulk, Hulkbuster, Uncanny Deadpool, Thoress and some more. And You tell me: forget it? **** You.

    No character is out of reach.
    If someone wants Loki, specify him as your favorite and you'll always have a 5% change of getting him when opening a golden token. That'a higher chance than it used to be before Bonus Heroes was introduced.
    You'll soon have those Lokis flowing in.

    You want Red Hulk? I do as well. I have him as my favorite hero hence always have a 5% chance of getting him when opening a legendary token. I got 2 Red Hulks since Bonus Heroes was introduced.

    Can't You read? I wrote "75% heroes will be out of reach". That is 32 heroes out of packs now. How many draws one would need to get covers for them as Bonus Heroes? That's practically out of reach. And look at all these posts, how weird the system works ...
    If someone wants to spend MONEY (not money, but MONEY), the change may be convenient. But for the most of us that want F2P or just spend some money (like me) ... this topic and few others brings the answer what we think of it.

    I can read, that's just an insulting attack made by you which I certainly didn't ask for or deserved.
    But I still can't understand how these characters are "out of reach" when there's always a (high!) chance of getting them of they're selected for bonus draw. I'll like this explained to me since I see lot of people being upset about this.
    Focus on one at a time, maybe Red Hulk, and you'll always have a 5% of getting him as a bonus in EVERY legendary token. Focus on Red Hulk and Ice Man and you'll always have a 5% chance of getting one of these characters as a bonus in your legendary tokens.
    I think this is as close to pinpointing just the characters we desire we'll truly come (except for buying specific covers with CP of course)

    If you cannot understand over 1k posts (in total in different threads), there is no point to try any further.
    I try this one example only.
    Assume that out of 40 heroes I'm interested in developing 20. Out of 12 in packs, only 4.
    Old system: out of 60 LTs I get 30 usefull and 30 x 1k = 30k ISO.
    New system: out of 60 LTs I get 23 usefull and 40k ISO. Lost 7 covers in exchange of 10k ISO.

    It's just one (simplified) example of hundreds different reasons why people complain. And not only the idea is what make people upset, but the way D3 answers over 1k posts (only one! post that says nothing).
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    mexus wrote:
    Xzasxz wrote:
    mexus wrote:
    Xzasxz wrote:
    And one more thing, I didn't see anybody mentioned - Lightning Rounds. What are powered-up/essential characters in every single round? Loki, Doctor Doom, Ragnarok, Mystique, Magneto. Regardless that many times players asked for some diversity, all the time same five. Which of them are in the packs? Only Loki. And propably not for long.
    What about other modes with powered-up/featured heroes? Will the characters that not in the packs be powered up?
    Yes? How the newer players are to play? Already ca 75% heroes will be out of reach - forget maximum progression rewards in Story mode, forget good placements in both modes.
    No? Are You joking? Are You going to kill the last remnants of diversity?

    And once again I make my point: 510 days playing. Thousands of hours. Now, when I am so close, just few covers to max my long desired heroes, like Red Hulk, Hulkbuster, Uncanny Deadpool, Thoress and some more. And You tell me: forget it? **** You.

    No character is out of reach.
    If someone wants Loki, specify him as your favorite and you'll always have a 5% change of getting him when opening a golden token. That'a higher chance than it used to be before Bonus Heroes was introduced.
    You'll soon have those Lokis flowing in.

    You want Red Hulk? I do as well. I have him as my favorite hero hence always have a 5% chance of getting him when opening a legendary token. I got 2 Red Hulks since Bonus Heroes was introduced.

    Can't You read? I wrote "75% heroes will be out of reach". That is 32 heroes out of packs now. How many draws one would need to get covers for them as Bonus Heroes? That's practically out of reach. And look at all these posts, how weird the system works ...
    If someone wants to spend MONEY (not money, but MONEY), the change may be convenient. But for the most of us that want F2P or just spend some money (like me) ... this topic and few others brings the answer what we think of it.

    I can read, that's just an insulting attack made by you which I certainly didn't ask for or deserved.
    But I still can't understand how these characters are "out of reach" when there's always a (high!) chance of getting them if they're selected for bonus draw. I'll like this explained to me since I see lot of people being upset about this.
    Focus on one at a time, maybe Red Hulk, and you'll always have a 5% of getting him as a bonus in EVERY legendary token. Focus on Red Hulk and Ice Man and you'll always have a 5% chance of getting one of these characters as a bonus in your legendary tokens.
    I think this is as close to pinpointing just the characters we desire we'll truly come (except for buying specific covers with CP of course)


    To be fair when comparing bonus heros it's fair to compare USEABLE covers to the bonus.

    Before a legendary had a like 85-90% chance of advancing new characters to useable.
    Now it has a 80% chance or so of being a character I have 0 covers of, with an additional 5% chance of helping build up a character that I actively have to choose to seek out. And it still very much has a chance of being someone with 5 of a color getting their 6th+ in that color.

    Obviously neither is ideal but it's VERY clear that those of use with a roster full of 6-12 covered 4 stars got stuck behind a double RNG gate of "well I guess I'll have to roster this one, hopefully I get another pull of X coming out of this, well I guess not"

    Even sillier is that it got implemented on the tail end of two characters being kicked out of the tokens.
    Two I had maybe 3 covers of, who will now sit in limbo that way.
  • Crnch73
    Crnch73 Posts: 504 Critical Contributor
    mexus wrote:

    I can read, that's just an insulting attack made by you which I certainly didn't ask for or deserved.
    But I still can't understand how these characters are "out of reach" when there's always a (high!) chance of getting them if they're selected for bonus draw. I'll like this explained to me since I see lot of people being upset about this.
    Focus on one at a time, maybe Red Hulk, and you'll always have a 5% of getting him as a bonus in EVERY legendary token. Focus on Red Hulk and Ice Man and you'll always have a 5% chance of getting one of these characters as a bonus in your legendary tokens.
    I think this is as close to pinpointing just the characters we desire we'll truly come (except for buying specific covers with CP of course)

    I will be more civil, but I still disagree with you. Here's why:

    your odds of getting "golden" rewards are still slim overall. I understand that 5% represents higher odds than you used to have to pull a specific character. But again, this is all just probability. I am over 60 LT pulls and still no bonus 4's. I am somewhere around 200 total token pulls, and I have only gotten a 4* from LT's. So, sure, could I have opened 140 random tokens and 60 LT's in the past, and still not gotten a Red Hulk (like you are chasing)? Of course! But now, we are 99% relying on bonus heroes to help save the day, and if that's the case, my day is never getting saved. I fully endorse ideas to help prevent dilution, of which there are many. I just think they need to do more. Some have suggested rotating or choosing extra heroes to join the selected 12. Some have suggested higher token odds or higher BH odds. Some have suggested a DDQ node that yields a 4* daily. All of these are great ideas. The current system may feel like it is better, but in reality it's not much different. It was a lateral move at best... which is nothing to be mad about except that they sold it to us as a GREAT change. The idea is good, but the implementation (and lack of a heads up) was a flop. If they could make a few small changes, this could be good moving forward. For now, though... the boosted characters and the required nodes will create a vast chasm between the haves and the have nots. I say this as a player with at least 5 covers for all 4's, and every 3* champed besides the new hawkeye. So, my roster isn't the best, but I can still say I fall more into the "have" category... and yet I still say this is going to cause havoc. And don't get me started on the wasted time developing and chasing characters that are now vaulted!
  • drayviper32
    drayviper32 Posts: 123 Tile Toppler
    I love bonus heroes!!! Thanks D3!!!! icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    drayviper32 wrote:
    I love bonus heroes!!! Thanks D3!!!! icon_e_biggrin.gif

    Mate - everybody loves bonus heroes. What not to like when you have 5% chance of an extra cover for a selected hero. It's nice (would be great if the odds were 15-25% but hey - beggars are not choosers).

    This thread is rather focused on negative implication of the 75% of covers in 3 and 4* tiers being vaulted. So please - stop trolling.
  • DesertTortoise
    DesertTortoise Posts: 392 Mover and Shaker
    Magic wrote:
    drayviper32 wrote:
    I love bonus heroes!!! Thanks D3!!!! icon_e_biggrin.gif
    This thread is rather focused on negative implication of the 75% of covers in 3 and 4* tiers being vaulted. So please - stop trolling.

    Is this a joke? He posted something you agree with and because he also isn't condemning the vaulting he's trolling?
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    DesertTortoise wrote:
    Magic wrote:
    drayviper32 wrote:
    I love bonus heroes!!! Thanks D3!!!! icon_e_biggrin.gif
    This thread is rather focused on negative implication of the 75% of covers in 3 and 4* tiers being vaulted. So please - stop trolling.

    Is this a joke? He posted something you agree with and because he also isn't condemning the vaulting he's trolling?

    Yes - he is trolling. We are at 48 pages of discussion about the recent update. That message brought nothing to the discussion and i judge it as trolling. You don't agree - your personal right.
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    mexus wrote:
    Better leave this thread and step very carefully on my way out,
    frustrated people throwing punches at anyone who doesn't have any negative to say on the topic. Sad.
    I am very far from being frustrated. And I love an argumentative discussion about the issues mentioned in this topic (and there was a lot of it). But I guess you know better.
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    mexus wrote:
    Magic wrote:
    mexus wrote:
    Better leave this thread and step very carefully on my way out,
    frustrated people throwing punches at anyone who doesn't have any negative to say on the topic. Sad.
    I am very far from being frustrated. And I love an argumentative discussion about the issues mentioned in this topic (and there was a lot of it). But I guess you know better.

    I probably don't know better. All I know is that I so far haven't had any problems with the vaulting issues due to what I've mentioned.
    I'd also like to state that I love... or maybe not loooove love but I really appreciate the bonus hero system and what this brings, vaulting or not - not a problem really. icon_e_smile.gif

    I am sure that vaulting works for some players very well. I am part of the group that vaulting is kind of touching in a bad way. One reason is I have to sell covers which I didn't have to do a lot in last couple of months. Math can be a bit misleading here. As of today I can use 25 out of 36 covers in the packs - good for 69%. Without vaulting the number would be 93 out of 135.... so 69% (but way more championing rewards for 23 champions so the net in resources would be heavily in my favor - including the CP to draw again). If I draw another cover to make it 5 for a given color today the odds would drop to 66% (and would drop to 68% without vaulting). And it's just one cover. And the lack of the championing rewards makes the transformation even more painful (I have only Peggy and Captain M championed of the latest and Peggy will rotate out in couple of weeks).

    So yes - I don't like vaulting. And I have reasons to dislike it. And I want to hear feedback form developers (or rather i don't like to be ignored by them again). And I like the bonus hero (even got a 5* bonus but mainly some 3*) because it's a nice addition.
  • Nellobee
    Nellobee Posts: 457 Mover and Shaker
    It has been two weeks. Brigby?
  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,038 Chairperson of the Boards
    Magic wrote:
    drayviper32 wrote:
    I love bonus heroes!!! Thanks D3!!!! icon_e_biggrin.gif

    Mate - everybody loves bonus heroes. What not to like when you have 5% chance of an extra cover for a selected hero. It's nice (would be great if the odds were 15-25% but hey - beggars are not choosers).

    This thread is rather focused on negative implication of the 75% of covers in 3 and 4* tiers being vaulted. So please - stop trolling.

    It's easy to fall into the echo chamber in this forum. Definitely didn't see a troll post there. There are people who prefer the vaulted system and bonus heroes.

    I don 't mind the vaulting since it address the very real problem of dilution. The vaulting didn't really change much for me other than my Iceman (bonus hero) went from having only 7 covers to having 11 and I busted open my legendary hoard for more Peggy's while simultaneously getting a bunch of low covered new 4*s into range to champ. Spider-woman will be champed tomorrow and then probably Mordo who is next up.

    The vaulting changed who I will be champing slightly and there are definitely valid complaints about the vaulted characters not getting as many high level rewards but a lot of that is mitigated by the ability to push one up a level at a time. Want a maxed Rhulk, set him as your bonus hero and he'll be maxed eventually. Want to champ a wider variety of characters go one at a time and do so. It slows up the 4* tier a good bit which is a good thing for the long term health of the game.
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    whitecrit.png Just looks to me that they are going to delay, postpone, and dawdle till they say well the system has been in place and has been wonderful for its purpose, no changes. And the delay will blunt the negative reactions. Day 15 since I quit.
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    Nellobee wrote:
    It has been two weeks. Brigby?
    *Hope you don't mind the copy-and-paste of my response from another thread

    The intent behind Bonus Heroes, and the removal of older 3 and 4-Star characters from packs, was to reduce pack dilution and provide a way for players to acquire newer characters faster. Having said that though, the team recognizes the community concern regarding older 3 and 4-Star progression, and has decided to start exploring several options to try and alleviate those concerns.

    Keep in mind that this is still exploration, and nothing is 100% guaranteed, but here are some of the ideas that the team is investigating:
      - A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters
    As you can tell, these ideas are sparse in detail, as the team is still figuring out which could work the best. Once we have more information to provide, we'll be sure to update the community.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,487 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brigby wrote:
      - A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters

    Rotations just slow the champ rewards that we were working for. Stores are just a way for whales to get more rewards, and the regular players not to.

    "New Vault"...how about "Classic" meaning "classic"? The old 4*'s in the classics, the new 12 4*'s in the latest. Nice and easy, solves the dilution concern.
  • StarScream
    StarScream Posts: 147 Tile Toppler
    Brigby wrote:
    The intent behind Bonus Heroes, and the removal of older 3 and 4-Star characters from packs, was to reduce pack dilution and provide a way for players to acquire newer characters faster.

    This is interesting. They create the massive dilution due to releasing new characters every week it seems and they in turn punish the players because of it. They purposely make it so the pool is way too overcrowded and then they tell us who they want us to have to play with.

    It sure sounds like there is a whole lot of nothing going on in some minds over there.
  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
    Great that theyre working on something to change the situation, hope to hear more soon. I still think the issue is solved with a tweak in BH rates in the LT store...which would also address 5* dilution, bonus heroes hasnt really touched that in any meaningful way.
  • j0nats
    j0nats Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Brigby wrote:
      - A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters

    Rotations just slow the champ rewards that we were working for. Stores are just a way for whales to get more rewards, and the regular players not to.

    "New Vault"...how about "Classic" meaning "classic"? The old 4*'s in the classics, the new 12 4*'s in the latest. Nice and easy, solves the dilution concern.

    i would like to *bump* this simple yet elegant solution, which is already in place in the 5 star realm...

    Give the player the option to go the slow and steady route by putting the 4* classics in the classics token (however diluted they will become), or the faster and slightly more cp expensive method by putting the latest 4s in the latest tokens.
  • MarkersMake
    MarkersMake Posts: 392 Mover and Shaker
    j0nats wrote:
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Brigby wrote:
      - A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters

    Rotations just slow the champ rewards that we were working for. Stores are just a way for whales to get more rewards, and the regular players not to.

    "New Vault"...how about "Classic" meaning "classic"? The old 4*'s in the classics, the new 12 4*'s in the latest. Nice and easy, solves the dilution concern.

    i would like to *bump* this simple yet elegant solution, which is already in place in the 5 star realm...

    Give the player the option to go the slow and steady route by putting the 4* classics in the classics token (however diluted they will become), or the faster and slightly more cp expensive method by putting the latest 4s in the latest tokens.
    There are no 4* tokens - there are only mixed 4*/5* tokens.

    So if you go this route, what about people who want the latest 5*s, but classic 4*s? Latest of each? Classics for each? Latest 4*s, but classic 5*s?

    It's workable, but you would need 4 different tokens to do it. And what would/should the cost be for each token type? Currently the latest legendary token is an extra 5cp premium over the classic. Should latest 4*s also be priced at a premium over classic 4*s? What about the mixed tokens? What is fair and reasonable? What would you pay for each?

    It's a simple solution, but there are questions that need to be addressed for it to work.
  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,845 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'd be fine with the vaulting if they came up with a solution for the 6th cover so I can cover older characters via progression, placement or token vaults. Seeing a Purple X-23 in my Taco vault when she is 3/1/5 is extremely annoying and unnecessary. How long will this continue?
  • j0nats
    j0nats Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
    MarkersMake wrote:
    j0nats wrote:
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Brigby wrote:
      - A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters

    Rotations just slow the champ rewards that we were working for. Stores are just a way for whales to get more rewards, and the regular players not to.

    "New Vault"...how about "Classic" meaning "classic"? The old 4*'s in the classics, the new 12 4*'s in the latest. Nice and easy, solves the dilution concern.

    i would like to *bump* this simple yet elegant solution, which is already in place in the 5 star realm...

    Give the player the option to go the slow and steady route by putting the 4* classics in the classics token (however diluted they will become), or the faster and slightly more cp expensive method by putting the latest 4s in the latest tokens.
    There are no 4* tokens - there are only mixed 4*/5* tokens.

    So if you go this route, what about people who want the latest 5*s, but classic 4*s? Latest of each? Classics for each? Latest 4*s, but classic 5*s?

    It's workable, but you would need 4 different tokens to do it. And what would/should the cost be for each token type? Currently the latest legendary token is an extra 5cp premium over the classic. Should latest 4*s also be priced at a premium over classic 4*s? What about the mixed tokens? What is fair and reasonable? What would you pay for each?

    It's a simple solution, but there are questions that need to be addressed for it to work.

    I think itd be fair for mixed tokens (i.e. elite n heroic) to only give 4 latest. And classic tokens to be the way to get classic 4s and 5s. For those wanting latest legends to get latest 5 n classic 4s... doesnt make sense to call it latest legends then right?

    Of course im in the "pls revert back to the way it was" camp. Im just thinking of what is the easiest workaround to the current meta to make it semi acceptable

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