New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

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Comments

  • Nepenthe
    Nepenthe Posts: 283 Mover and Shaker
    Brigby wrote:
    Keep in mind that this is still exploration, and nothing is 100% guaranteed, but here are some of the ideas that the team is investigating:
      - A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters
    As you can tell, these ideas are sparse in detail, as the team is still figuring out which could work the best. Once we have more information to provide, we'll be sure to update the community.


    Please NOT ROTATIONS! Waiting to open tokens until the covers we want are there is not fun! Some people like to hoard, sure, but some people like to open rewards when we earn them, not sit on them for months.

    If by "a new store" you mean a new token type, a la when Legendary Tokens were split into Classic & Latest token stores, then by all means do that. Giving us the choice of spending CP on the latest pool or the (more diluted) older pool is what most of us have been asking for since this change was announced.

    A new vault? Depends on how it's implemented I guess, but I'm thinking this sounds like a spenders-only solution. This doesn't fix the issue of buying classic/latest LTs with our earned CP and being drastically limited in which 4*s we might get.

    I'm glad to hear it's all still under discussion, at least.
  • zulux21
    zulux21 Posts: 249 Tile Toppler
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Brigby wrote:
      - A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters

    Rotations just slow the champ rewards that we were working for. Stores are just a way for whales to get more rewards, and the regular players not to.

    "New Vault"...how about "Classic" meaning "classic"? The old 4*'s in the classics, the new 12 4*'s in the latest. Nice and easy, solves the dilution concern.
    no thanks... I would really prefer to not have to spend an extra 5CP per pull just to get the newer characters.

    would vastly prefer just a third page that you can spend CP on to pull characters.
    though I don't like the idea of 3 stars being in such a thing. Really why not just leave 3 stars unvaulted and just replace all standard tokens you get period with elite if you are beyond shield rank 40 or so. that would give enough 3 stars in general that it would likely deal with how diluted the pool is.
  • HaiKulture
    HaiKulture Posts: 10 Just Dropped In
    I'm all for getting a random 'free' cover, but it really played havoc with the covers in 4 Star Land.

    I've been playing this game for about 3/4's of a year and was just about to enter 4* Land. Boo! icon_razz.gif

    Kidding aside - it doesn't make much sense from a player or a developer stand point to only wave the 'cult of the new' covers in our collective faces. I mean the philosophy should be one of, to paraphrase Mamet:

    ALWAYS BE PULLING

    And putting a kibosh on collecting (or the hope of it) sort of puts the kibosh on that. Where do I get my Things and Ant Mans among the throngs of Riris???

    People have touched on this but I need to concur that a decent set up seems to be:

    Latest Legends: 4 and 5 Star Cult of the New.
    Classic Legends: All those moldering 4 and 5 Star covers of yesteryear. Sure it is diluted - but is it? Better chance of getting something you may want than a 1/300 from the Taco Truck.
    New Legend Specific Store aka Bag of Tricks or whatever it was: Just Mr. Bright Shiny Fiver and ALL the 4 Stars as a consolation prize.

    Keep Heroic a big swamp of Randomness to wallow around in and pray for a Bonus Hero giving you a thumbs up.

    If people are still seeking the specific cover and color of their 4* dreams there's always a chance of it popping up in the Taco Vault or The Weekly Character Specif Vault. (Heck - I even bought into the pull frenzy of those when Mr. Fantastic was my only 4* hold out)

    The thing is in dropping CP trying to get 5 Hawkeye last week - I wound up with 3 Riris and 4 Spider Womans. After 9 months Deadpool was one cover short of moving in line to be my first 4* Champ and then WHAM dark horse Spider Woman takes the lead out of nowhere getting 13 in a rain of covers.

    Thing was - I didn't feel like I had a choice or an option. Each attempt on new Hawkeye was going to net me a very limited consolation prize that I really wanted less of the more I pulled. So I stopped - to avoid the frustration of another Riri.

    I really wanted a "chance" at that Deadpool and not just from the Buddy System hope of a double dip because I had to give all the covers that dropped off the planet some loving.

    It didn't make sense when I should ALWAYS BE PULLING!

    That's my two cents in the nonsense.
  • herm1978
    herm1978 Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    Punisher5784 wrote:
    I'd be fine with the vaulting if they came up with a solution for the 6th cover so I can cover older characters via progression, placement or token vaults. Seeing a Purple X-23 in my Taco vault when she is 3/1/5 is extremely annoying and unnecessary. How long will this continue?

    For me, this is the real problem. I would love to set one of my 12 cover 4*s as "favourite" and just wait for the lucky bonus drop, provided that I dont have to get a 6th cover (potentially) over and over again.

    Could also be solved with a higher % for 4* bonus heroes, then it wouldnt be such a big deal to get a 6th cover.
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    j0nats wrote:
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Brigby wrote:
      - A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters

    Rotations just slow the champ rewards that we were working for. Stores are just a way for whales to get more rewards, and the regular players not to.

    "New Vault"...how about "Classic" meaning "classic"? The old 4*'s in the classics, the new 12 4*'s in the latest. Nice and easy, solves the dilution concern.

    i would like to *bump* this simple yet elegant solution, which is already in place in the 5 star realm...

    Give the player the option to go the slow and steady route by putting the 4* classics in the classics token (however diluted they will become), or the faster and slightly more cp expensive method by putting the latest 4s in the latest tokens.

    Nah, that solution would mean that they are actually listening to the feedback and that would hurt their reputation.
  • SleepingKoala
    SleepingKoala Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    Brigby wrote:
      - A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters
    As you can tell, these ideas are sparse in detail, as the team is still figuring out which could work the best. Once we have more information to provide, we'll be sure to update the community.


    The communication is much appreciated.

    While any change to the current vaulting would be very welcome, rotations of removed characters would be my least preferred option.
  • K2f
    K2f Posts: 1
    Thus update has made it impossible to gain older covers for 4* characters. I'm not sure about 3*, but the fact that they only include the 12 newest 4* characters in the vaults and legendary and heroic, vaults, you can't get characters like x-force wolverine or any older characters.

    Also, by cycling older characters out as you include new charcaters, you're making it imposible for one to completely level or even champion characters before they are gone. New characters are being introduced and the old ones vanish. For older players who aren't whales, this is a game breaking issue. It essentially makes all older 4*'s dead characters as we can't level them further, we can't gain covers.

    Even for 2*s, bagman is gone. Not even part of standard tokens. He was already hard enough to pull, now he's literally impossible as he's not part of any pack. Yes, he's probably the worst character including 1*s, but for players who like to collect the roster, this is completely irritating since one cannot collect them all anymore.

    I understand this bonus update helps new players catch up faster, and it helps whales who have completly championed the older 4*s, but this hurts everyone in between.

    If you want to have the bonus update, then make it an independent thing and either bring the older 4*''s and even 3 and 2*'s like bag man back into packs, or create two packs. Just like the legendary packs have older and newer characters, you can make one a regular standard, iconic, or heroic pack, and another a bonus (newest 12 characters) pack.

    This update makes me just not want to open/buy any packs.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,580 Chairperson of the Boards
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Rotations just slow the champ rewards that we were working for. Stores are just a way for whales to get more rewards, and the regular players not to.

    "New Vault"...how about "Classic" meaning "classic"? The old 4*'s in the classics, the new 12 4*'s in the latest. Nice and easy, solves the dilution concern.

    If they added a second version of tokens there is simply no need for that one to exclude the new 4*s, somebody wanting to develop a broad roster of characters is still going to want the chance to pull those covers too.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,580 Chairperson of the Boards
    revskip wrote:
    It slows up the 4* tier a good bit which is a good thing for the long term health of the game.

    How is slowing up the 4* tier a good thing when it is no longer the top tier, all that does is allow a larger gap between 4* and 5* rosters to form, probably dissuading a lot of people from even bothering with the net result that they go and play some other game that gives reasonable levels of progression at all levels of spending.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,580 Chairperson of the Boards
    MarkersMake wrote:
    There are no 4* tokens - there are only mixed 4*/5* tokens.

    So if you go this route, what about people who want the latest 5*s, but classic 4*s? Latest of each? Classics for each? Latest 4*s, but classic 5*s?

    It's workable, but you would need 4 different tokens to do it. And what would/should the cost be for each token type? Currently the latest legendary token is an extra 5cp premium over the classic. Should latest 4*s also be priced at a premium over classic 4*s? What about the mixed tokens? What is fair and reasonable? What would you pay for each?

    It's a simple solution, but there are questions that need to be addressed for it to work.

    A simpler solution to all this would seem to be two versions of each LT, one contains the truncated list of latest 4*s and the other contains all the 4* including the new ones.

    This approach would allow people to match their 5* preferences without having to sacrifice their choice of 4*s.

    This obviously wouldn't address other tokens, but would address the most reliable source of 4*s for most people.
  • Crnch73
    Crnch73 Posts: 504 Critical Contributor
    Brigby wrote:
    Nellobee wrote:
    It has been two weeks. Brigby?
    *Hope you don't mind the copy-and-paste of my response from another thread

    The intent behind Bonus Heroes, and the removal of older 3 and 4-Star characters from packs, was to reduce pack dilution and provide a way for players to acquire newer characters faster. Having said that though, the team recognizes the community concern regarding older 3 and 4-Star progression, and has decided to start exploring several options to try and alleviate those concerns.

    Keep in mind that this is still exploration, and nothing is 100% guaranteed, but here are some of the ideas that the team is investigating:
      - A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters
    As you can tell, these ideas are sparse in detail, as the team is still figuring out which could work the best. Once we have more information to provide, we'll be sure to update the community.

    at least they are working on a solution! I have to admit that none of them are my preferred options, but it is better than nothing. Basically, I just don't want to have 2 things happen:

    1) I don't want this to become "Our solution is for the players to spend more money to fix this!" A store/vault to fix this sounds eerily similar to the recent 4* vaults that cost 3500+ HP to empty. This wasn't our fault, it was theirs. I truly hope against them using our dollars to punch their way out of a wet paper bag.

    2) If we make a new vault/token that has all of the "old" 4's, this too will become overcrowded in time. They release characters way too often (but that's their prerogative, no arguing there.) But if they do a new character every 2 weeks, the "new" token with only old 4's will become too diluted within 6 months, and then we are back to the same problem. Reality is, with so many 4's in the game, they just need to be easier to obtain, end of story. However they want to do it, that's fine with me. Cheaper CP costs? sure. Cheaper individual covers in terms of CP for older 4's would be great. Daily 4* DDQ would be awesome. Heck, I would be thrilled with higher token odds for higher star characters, and/or higher BH drop rate! No matter the solution, right now we are forced to shoot at a small target with buckshot. Randomness is rarely precise...
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    i think it'd help if they ~halved the latest 4* pull rate and divided the other half up among the older ones. give or take on the numbers. maybe 60% newer and 40% older or something. you'd get less older ones, but not 0. and still would be easier than before to cover latests. lots of ways to handle it, but thats my idea. I don't like splitting classics/latests (exactly opposite of what I'm trying to do), and I don't like rotations. I'd mind less if my top 4s had about 20 more levels. but I need those 20 more levels to take less than a year please.
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    TxMoose wrote:
    i think it'd help if they ~halved the latest 4* pull rate and divided the other half up among the older ones. give or take on the numbers. maybe 60% newer and 40% older or something. you'd get less older ones, but not 0. and still would be easier than before to cover latests. lots of ways to handle it, but thats my idea. I don't like splitting classics/latests (exactly opposite of what I'm trying to do), and I don't like rotations. I'd mind less if my top 4s had about 20 more levels. but I need those 20 more levels to take less than a year please.

    You're speaking strictly legendaries right?

    I wish they'd do something about heroics, that involved lowering the 2 star rate if anything, even slightly would make a huge difference so long as 4 got some of that %.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    GurlBYE wrote:
    You're speaking strictly legendaries right?

    I wish they'd do something about heroics, that involved lowering the 2 star rate if anything, even slightly would make a huge difference so long as 4 got some of that %.
    yes, but could transfer the concept it to the lower 4* odds in the heroics.

    I think all rarity tiers need a bump up in rewards. this is the point in numbers where we got daily ddq and a bump in the 3* rewards. that was and still is touted as THE best thing done in the game. why they wouldn't handle this in a similar fashion baffles me. as it is, you progress up to a point and then stagnate without very high level of play and/or spending. some spend, but some just get bored of no progress and move on. I've seen it happen a lot to good players who were very high level at one point. the game will continue to lose players (and payers) to stagnation as long as they keep progress on 4s and especially 5s at a glacial pace.
  • AlphaNik
    AlphaNik Posts: 45 Just Dropped In
    sh81 wrote:
    If the strike rate on bonus heroes was more like 20% than 5%, would anyone have an issue with the vaulting?

    I think it should be higher than 5% too. Even different based on rarity. 20% for 3*, 15% for 4*, 10% for 5*. (Example)
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    The percentage is WAY to low to replace vaults.

    The percentages should be lower for newer characters and EXCEEDINGLY high for older ones.

    Like 30-40%~, which still is't a guarentee but would at least provide the ability to obtain characters of old at a respectable rate.
  • firethorne
    firethorne Posts: 1,505 Chairperson of the Boards
    sh81 wrote:
    If the strike rate on bonus heroes was more like 20% than 5%, would anyone have an issue with the vaulting?

    Yes. Because the math simply still doesn't work out in your favor. Think about it this way: With a 5% (1 in 20) the time it takes to complete all of the old heroes is approximately 20 times as long as pre-vaulting, because you're only getting one of them every 20 draws. With a 20%, (1 in 5) the time is now approximately five times as long. Better than 20 times as long, sure. But, it is still a half-measure that leaves the game in a far worse state than pre-vaulting for people interested in finishing more than two or three old heroes and continuing champion levels across the board.
  • capt_edubble
    capt_edubble Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    Brigby wrote:
    Nellobee wrote:
    It has been two weeks. Brigby?
    *Hope you don't mind the copy-and-paste of my response from another thread

    The intent behind Bonus Heroes, and the removal of older 3 and 4-Star characters from packs, was to reduce pack dilution and provide a way for players to acquire newer characters faster. Having said that though, the team recognizes the community concern regarding older 3 and 4-Star progression, and has decided to start exploring several options to try and alleviate those concerns.

    Keep in mind that this is still exploration, and nothing is 100% guaranteed, but here are some of the ideas that the team is investigating:
      - A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters
    As you can tell, these ideas are sparse in detail, as the team is still figuring out which could work the best. Once we have more information to provide, we'll be sure to update the community.

    I slightly agree with the reduction in order to control dilution. A big part of the problem is getting all these new characters so fast, that it takes forever to be able to even have them as a usable character for PVE or PVP.

    While a new vault or store or pack or whatever would help with the remaining characters that have now been vaulted. I would hope that SCL 9 and SCL 10 would be used to help to cover some of these older 4* characters. I would like to think that most people who will be joining these SCLs have no use for standard tokens or 2*s or many of the 3*s at this point. I feel it would be more useful if there was a second 4* character added for rank awards that could cycle in these older vaulted characters and would give a better chance of filling out your older 4*s than still having rely solely on packs and tokens. Just a thought.
  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,603 Chairperson of the Boards
    sh81 wrote:
    If the strike rate on bonus heroes was more like 20% than 5%, would anyone have an issue with the vaulting?

    It could be 100% and it would still be too low to counter vaulting. Because there are 12 characters in the limited packs, and over 30 locked away in the vault. With literal guarantees of two tokens per pack, one regular from the limited 12, and one bonus from the rest, if you could GUARANTEE even distribution, you'll pull three times as many new hero covers as you will old heroes, meaning those old heroes will be covered an gain champ levels at 1/3rd the rate of the 12 actually in packs. That's IF you can guarantee an even distribution, and no covers go to waste.

    Bonus heroes can help if you want to hunt down a single character. But when you're opening packs of a pool of 12 and trying to support almost 50 characters (which the game highly encourages you to do, with DDQ, Crash, Essential nodes, and weekly boosted character lists), bonus heroes are virtually worthless.

    If Vaulting is punching a one-foot diameter hole in the bottom of the boat, Bonus Heroes is like using a spoon to try and bail out the incoming water. Upgrading from a teaspoon to a tablespoon doesn't fix the hole in the boat, or give you a reasonable way to deal with it.
  • Crnch73
    Crnch73 Posts: 504 Critical Contributor
    firethorne wrote:
    sh81 wrote:
    If the strike rate on bonus heroes was more like 20% than 5%, would anyone have an issue with the vaulting?

    Yes. Because the math simply still doesn't work out in your favor. Think about it this way: With a 5% (1 in 20) the time it takes to complete all of the old heroes is approximately 20 times as long as pre-vaulting, because you're only getting one of them every 20 draws. With a 20%, (1 in 5) the time is now approximately five times as long. Better than 20 times as long, sure. But, it is still a half-measure that leaves the game in a far worse state than pre-vaulting for people interested in finishing more than two or three old heroes and continuing champion levels across the board.

    I respectfully disagree, fire. I believe that if the odds were something like 1/4 or 1/5 to get bonus heroes, you could spend 120 CP (the cost of a specific 4* cover), get 6 of the newest 4's plus be very likely to also get your bonus hero. I understand your numbers, but let's be honest, we don't need to champion every character out there. Eddie Brock? Agent Venom? Riri? Mr. Fantastic? all those characters could sit idle on my roster (or disappear forever) and I wouldn't care in the least. I used to have a completionist attitude, that I needed to get all characters and eventually champion them all. But in reality, the way the game is going, that target is only getting harder and harder to hit.

    Overall, an increase in odds to this high would essentially fix the problem of not being able to reach 13 covers for those 4's in the vault. It would not solve the issue with 4* champion rewards, and I understand that this doesn't help someone who has zero of an old 4* and needs them for an event or for DDQ, but it would be something that I would consider a HUGE step in the right direction.

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