New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

monsieurmojo

Vhailorx wrote:

Wumpushunter wrote:

Is it unusual for such a long controversial thread to go unanswered by someone in authority? I am new here and wondering if d3 will actually respond to board controversy?

This thread seems fairly tame by "controversial thread" standards on this board. No one has started the ad hominem attacks yet, or really busted out the 'tinykitty's.

And it's only 25 pages. I think the baking thead was pushing 50, and the true healing thread back in 2014 was more than 100 pages iirc.

Yeah, the Boss Rush thread was a respectable 42 pages.

killercool

KGB wrote:

Nice and succinctly stated.

The system could be improved a lot by simply rotating the characters every season. So the 20 3*s would flip every season. The 4* would rotate on a 4 season basis (first 12 released, second 12 released, third 12 released, latest 12 released and as more 4* get introduced over time the 12 could become 13 when there are 52 4* and so on).

That way someone who wanted older characters could simply wait until the appropriate season to open tokens.

KGB

This seems to be one of the main areas of concern. There is a sense that the door is slamming on a large portion of the 4* tier with no option to see them rotated back into future packs. So the only way to get an older 4* is to target it to the exclusion of the other old 4*s. It really leaves alot of the folks that have champed mid and lower tier 4* characters feeling cheated out of millions of iso-8.

GurlBYE

New McG wrote:

fmftint wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

New McG wrote:

Imagine the outcry if they implement bonus characters, keep the token pool the same as it was, and then someone draws a 6th or greater cover on a non-covered 4* from a legendary, and then get a bonus cover that's also fits that description. It would be "what's the point of bonus covers if they're as useless as the diluted tokens we get them from?"

That's still quite possible. Nothing about this changes prevents it.

I know several who've got a bonus 5 of a character/color that they already have at 5

I would also add the stipulation "if you pick a bonus character that may kick you a bonus cover you can't use, that's really just the stupid tax being paid".

Or characters that it is not possible to cover any other way, pretty plain and simple.

For my 5/0/5 hulkbuster and 5/05 carnage. thats the only road i've got, when that time comes.

Unless one of their pves is coming up. I mean all 4's do get 1 pve event very 43 or so.

Wumpushunter

Brigby wrote:

funeralthirst7 wrote:

Wumpushunter wrote:

Is it unusual for such a long controversial thread to go unanswered by someone in authority? I am new here and wondering if d3 will actually respond to board controversy?

Not really unusual at all.

It's more so we're trying to get through the immense amount of information being presented to us in this, so far, 25-page-long thread, and process it all so we can figure out how to accurately address it.

We're definitely not trying to avoid touching base on this topic. It's just that we want to be as well-informed as possible of the community's concerns before doing so.

Thank you for your reply! Perhas you could make it so you could opt out of the bonus hero/vaulting system. I would rather have a lesser chance to get all characters, then a higher chance from a smaller list of characters some who are vastly under powered compared those not on the new lists.

n25philly

Brigby wrote:

funeralthirst7 wrote:

Wumpushunter wrote:

Is it unusual for such a long controversial thread to go unanswered by someone in authority? I am new here and wondering if d3 will actually respond to board controversy?

Not really unusual at all.

It's more so we're trying to get through the immense amount of information being presented to us in this, so far, 25-page-long thread, and process it all so we can figure out how to accurately address it.

We're definitely not trying to avoid touching base on this topic. It's just that we want to be as well-informed as possible of the community's concerns before doing so.

If major changes don't come, could the response please give some kind of explanation as to why so much has to be taken away from us to make this happen?

Omega Red

Lots of players here seem unwilling or unable to adapt to change. Back when the selling price for two star champs was boosted to 65,000 many saw it as an opportunity to accelerate progression through farming. It's been what, nine, ten months since that change and today, despite the evidence, we still have players refusing to farm because they don't want to spend over 10,000 HP in roster slots, not realizing how this is an investment, not an expense.

Then we had the death of cupcakes and a revamp of PVE. PVP sucks, but PVE was made easier and better rewarded (less clears, no need to play at multiple times of the day, four star in progression reward and more tokens) so I became a PVE player (previously I was sort of hybrid) and my progression has accelerated because of that.

Now we have this new set of changes and I decided to open 30 classic tokens today. I needed all the covers available in those tokens so there was no incentive to wait any longer. Thanks to this I just champed Peggy. Moon knight, Blade and Carol are now one cover shy of being completed. Last but not least, all my four characters but the newest are now usable, cover-wise. Now I'll fave four star characters that I already champed while I save iso. Once I have enough I'll simply fave whoever I want to champ next and the cover will come sooner.

I would advice, just take what the game gives you. If the game wants you to farm, farm. If the game rewards you more for playing PVE, play PVE. If the game wants you to cover the newest four stars, cover them. If the game wants you to control your progression, control it. The rules change all the time, but the smart player will always find a way to make them work in his favour.

Ayasugi-san

Except the game wants us to do contradictory things. It wants us to roster every 4 (PVE essentials, Behemoth Burrito) and to get all of them well covered (Crash of the Titans), but has severely limited our ability to acquire three fourths of the 4 s.

n25philly

Omega Red wrote:

Lots of players here seem unwilling or unable to adapt to change. Back when the selling price for two star champs was boosted to 65,000 many saw it as an opportunity to accelerate progression through farming. It's been what, nine, ten months since that change and today, despite the evidence, we still have players refusing to farm because they don't want to spend over 10,000 HP in roster slots, not realizing how this is an investment, not an expense.

Then we had the death of cupcakes and a revamp of PVE. PVP sucks, but PVE was made easier and better rewarded (less clears, no need to play at multiple times of the day, four star in progression reward and more tokens) so I became a PVE player (previously I was sort of hybrid) and my progression has accelerated because of that.

Now we have this new set of changes and I decided to open 30 classic tokens today. I needed all the covers available in those tokens so there was no incentive to wait any longer. Thanks to this I just champed Peggy. Moon knight, Blade and Carol are now one cover shy of being completed. Last but not least, all my four characters but the newest are now usable, cover-wise. Now I'll fave four star characters that I already champed while I save iso. Once I have enough I'll simply fave whoever I want to champ next and the cover will come sooner.

I would advice, just take what the game gives you. If the game wants you to farm, farm. If the game rewards you more for playing PVE, play PVE. If the game wants you to cover the newest four stars, cover them. If the game wants you to control your progression, control it. The rules change all the time, but the smart player will always find a way to make them work in his favour.

That is kind of the problem here, this goes against so much of the game. Farm? How are you supposed to farm when they take away more than half the characters? There are two nodes on DDQ based around having a leveling all 4* characters. So the answer is to take away your ability to get those characters...

If just mindlessly following is the answer maybe they should pick a direction to go first?

Punisher5784

aesthetocyst wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

For my 5/0/5 hulkbuster and 5/05 carnage. thats the only road i've got.....

Not at all. 360cp, Hulkbuster champed. Wouldn't worry about Carnage. Don't waste bonus draws on them; they'll likely go to waste.

Actually 240 CP.. AFTER s/he FINALLY pulls a Black cover. The devs refusal to implement a colorless system is the real issue.

whitecat31

Ok Various questions for the Development Team:

Will there be a rotation of the various available characters from the opening of tokens? If yes, how often will this rotation occur? Will it be a slow rotation of only the newest characters, or will it be a larger subset?
Would you guys consider a rotation of newer and older characters?

Did the draw rate from opening a single Legendary Token to get a 5 star drop from 15% to 14.25%? I am aware that the bonus chance of 0.75% exist and that in theory a person could draw two five star characters from a single token exist.

Will you change the rotation of boosted 4 stars and 3 stars in PVP and PVE to reflect the availability of the newest characters?

Will you guys consider allowing all the four star characters to be available in either the Legendary Classics or Legendary Token pool again, and only doing the newest 4 stars in just one of the token pools instead of both?

More questions to follow, but these seem like the most important.

Pylgrim

fmftint wrote:

mags1587 wrote:

The more I think about this, the more it seems that vaulting the majority of 4*s is going to kill the value of championing characters. Before this change, I was working on champing all my 4*s. Now, I don't know why I would bother. I'm not going to pull rewards for Drax or Mr. F randomly, and I certainly won't try to place for events in which they're rewarded. The only time I'll get them is from a vault pull or progression - not enough covers to make championing them worth it.

I'd love a dev response on how they see vaulting working with championing. Because right now it seems like vaulting characters is conflicting with the champion system.

(It also feels I just wasted the effort I spent over the last however many months to champ everyone I could and I wish I could get that ISO back.)

10.2m iso

That's how much I have invested in the 27 champ 4 who are now outside the draw pool, characters who will now see roughly 5 covers/YEAR. This is a sad sad week

Question: How many legendary tokens (earned or CP-bought) do you open in average in a month?

fmftint

Pylgrim wrote:

fmftint wrote:

10.2m iso

That's how much I have invested in the 27 champ 4 who are now outside the draw pool, characters who will now see roughly 5 covers/YEAR. This is a sad sad week

Question: How many legendary tokens (earned or CP-bought) do you open in average in a month?

About 60 f2p
A fair amount of tokens and comps coming from champ levels of 29 4 s, all 3 s champed and a 2 farm

Vhailorx

Omega Red wrote:

Lots of players here seem unwilling or unable to adapt to change. Back when the selling price for two star champs was boosted to 65,000 many saw it as an opportunity to accelerate progression through farming. It's been what, nine, ten months since that change and today, despite the evidence, we still have players refusing to farm because they don't want to spend over 10,000 HP in roster slots, not realizing how this is an investment, not an expense.

Then we had the death of cupcakes and a revamp of PVE. PVP sucks, but PVE was made easier and better rewarded (less clears, no need to play at multiple times of the day, four star in progression reward and more tokens) so I became a PVE player (previously I was sort of hybrid) and my progression has accelerated because of that.

This is a controversial topic to say the least. Perhaps it's better if we don't go there.

Now we have this new set of changes and I decided to open 30 classic tokens today. I needed all the covers available in those tokens so there was no incentive to wait any longer. Thanks to this I just champed Peggy. Moon knight, Blade and Carol are now one cover shy of being completed. Last but not least, all my four characters but the newest are now usable, cover-wise. Now I'll fave four star characters that I already champed while I save iso. Once I have enough I'll simply fave whoever I want to champ next and the cover will come sooner.

Hard to read this as anything other than: the new system worked well for me, so it's great! And it is good new for you. Seriously, grats! But that doesn't mean that the changes are good for the game as a whole.

I would advice, just take what the game gives you. If the game wants you to farm, farm. If the game rewards you more for playing PVE, play PVE. If the game wants you to cover the newest four stars, cover them. If the game wants you to control your progression, control it. The rules change all the time, but the smart player will always find a way to make them work in his favour.

The ability to recognize a negative change is not the same as an inability to adapt to it. Many players here complaining about the new token odds will definitely adapt their playstyle to whatever the eventual system is. That's a separate question from advocating for or opposing any given change implemented in the game.

ChuckFan

My initial reaction to the vaulting of the older 4s is/was negative. Luckily I managed to champ most of the good ones already, and recently was actually dreading spending ISO on the less useful 4s. Now I realized, there's no point, as I won't be drawing them anymore. For me, I have no incentive to champ: Gwen, Miles, Elektra, Mr F, Venom, Antman, Drax, IW, ProfX. I think I just saved myself 3 million ISO!

And if (purely hypothetical) given the option, would like to un-champ (and receive ISO back) for: XFW, Fury, War-Machine, Ghost Rider, Winter Soldier.

JamieMadrox

whitecat31 wrote:

Did the draw rate from opening a single Legendary Token to get a 5 star drop from 15% to 14.25%? I am aware that the bonus chance of 0.75% exist and that in theory a person could draw two five star characters from a single token exist.

I've received confirmation from the dev team via PM that the token odds for 5* have not changed. They are just exploring alternative methods of displaying the odds in packs.

dr tinykittylove

Where I am in the game is at well past 3 years - Resupply Day 1126, Shield Rank hit 100 this week. I play way too much and have the luck of fools - not huge numbers of 5*s or anything like that, but I get things covered fairly painlessly.

Just before Bonus Heroes and the associated vaulting rolled out, I had 43 champed 4*s, plus Carol, Gwenpool and Riri at 13 covers.

Before the change, almost every LT I pulled would provide me with hp, cp, iso, more lts. Post-BH testing... well, I am now the proud owner of 3 Gwenpools and 3 Riris. I got some Lukes, MKs, Jessicas and Wasps sure, but they feed me much less resources at 270-280 than, say, my Cyc or Bobby or Rhulk at 300++.

I can champ Gwenpool within the next few days, then it becomes a question of whether I can or want to rush-champ Riri with 12 days left now.

Once they are done, I'll have to move on to champ Carol, and next season I'll be revisiting this issue with Mordo and Coulson.

That's just no fun, honestly. It puts a constant resource crunch both income and outlay.

My alt A N00b, at 400ish days of extremely casual non-daily play, has a bunch of halfdone 4*s - it can win ddq with Rhulk, Cho, Antman and a few other older 4*s that are nowhere near complete. If it opens lts now it get a bunch of new 4*s it has no hp to roster, and by the time it gets them rostered with a few covers on, the available 4*s will be a completely different set. That's no fun either.

Pants1000

I'm surprised how negative the reaction here is. As a long-time f2p player with about 20 4's champed, it will change my strategy for sure, but I'm fine with it. It means I can quit worrying about champing some older 4's that I haven't champed yet (XFW, Fury, Miles, etc.) and put my ISO into the latest 4's.

I can see this being helpful for whales and new players too, since they can focus on newer characters and won't feel like they need to spend a fortune on roster spots.

I can see the downsides too. 4* champ rewards will be slower for the next couple months, until I get into a rhythm with most of the new 4's champed. My older 4's that are 5/5/2 or similar may be stuck there for a loooooong time, and some 4's that I like (but aren't top 5) will gain champ levels very slowly.

Overall I think it's more good than bad. I wish I hadn't recently champed Carnage and IW though...

Nellobee

After trying it out, sleeping on it, and getting a couple of BH's, I think I will go into casual mode for a month, and if there aren't announced changes, quit altogether. This breaks too many fundamental aspects of the game.

AlluAllu

They should just have two pools. One with 12 latest and one with all the rest. As I understand the situation, that way everybody wins.

ClydeFrog76

Hey guys, I've found a great way of forgetting all about this issue, and everything else that bugs you about the game:

Buy a Switch and Breath of the Wild.