New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

whitecat31

Jamie Madrox wrote:

whitecat31 wrote:

Did the draw rate from opening a single Legendary Token to get a 5 star drop from 15% to 14.25%? I am aware that the bonus chance of 0.75% exist and that in theory a person could draw two five star characters from a single token exist.

I've received confirmation from the dev team via PM that the token odds for 5* have not changed. They are just exploring alternative methods of displaying the odds in packs.

Jamie I have already established that 14.25% + 0.75% is 15 %. That is the TOTAL token odds of 15%. The total draw rate is different than a singular draw rate. May I ask what was the specific question in the pm, and what was the specific answer? Because if the singular draw rate did not change, that means the new total draw rate is 15.75%. If they lowered the singular draw rate to 14.25% than the total draw rate has not changed due to the bonus of 0.75%.

Crowl

KGB wrote:

The system could be improved a lot by simply rotating the characters every season. So the 20 3*s would flip every season. The 4* would rotate on a 4 season basis (first 12 released, second 12 released, third 12 released, latest 12 released and as more 4* get introduced over time the 12 could become 13 when there are 52 4* and so on).

That way someone who wanted older characters could simply wait until the appropriate season to open tokens.

No offence, but that would be almost as terrible as the current system, a vastly simpler solution would be two versions of the classic and latest tokens, one of each having the truncated list and one having the full list, let people choose whether they want all 4*s or not and would do so without forcing them to one group of 5*s or the other since plenty of people might want latest 5*s and all 4*s. For other tokens, they could go with the truncated 4* list as they are now as they are relatively rare from them, but it would help to address the issue of new characters being unusable for 6 months.

If they wanted to let people focus on particular characters then rather than us just choosing who could show up as a bonus, let us pick who would join the newest 12 as a regular pull from the LT e.g. we could pick say 8 older characters and then the tokens would be newest 12 plus those.

OneLastGambit

Crowl wrote:

KGB wrote:

The system could be improved a lot by simply rotating the characters every season. So the 20 3*s would flip every season. The 4* would rotate on a 4 season basis (first 12 released, second 12 released, third 12 released, latest 12 released and as more 4* get introduced over time the 12 could become 13 when there are 52 4* and so on).

That way someone who wanted older characters could simply wait until the appropriate season to open tokens.

No offence, but that would be almost as terrible as the current system, a vastly simpler solution would be two versions of the classic and latest tokens, one of each having the truncated list and one having the full list, let people choose whether they want all 4*s or not and would do so without forcing them to one group of 5*s or the other since plenty of people might want latest 5*s and all 4*s. For other tokens, they could go with the truncated 4* list as they are now as they are relatively rare from them, but it would help to address the issue of new characters being unusable for 6 months.

If they wanted to let people focus on particular characters then rather than us just choosing who could show up as a bonus, let us pick who would join the newest 12 as a regular pull from the LT e.g. we could pick say 8 older characters and then the tokens would be newest 12 plus those.

A 2 token system seems like the most sensible way to introduce this new system.

Latest tokens contain:
Latest twelve 4* characters
Latest three 5* Characters

Classic token contains:
Everyone else

Magic

Bowgentle wrote:

Magic wrote:

There seems to be a lot of arbitrary decisions. And when Brigby says they are looking into our feedback it clearly shows what the Developers do wrong. They should have consulted the change with the forum (both veterans and transitioners and begginers).

No, they shouldn't.
95% of the people in here have no idea what is good for the game, only what's good for THEM, personally.

The times devs listen directly to forum input instead of implementing stuff we get weird decisions based on a microscopic number of posts that managed to catch a dev's attention at the wrong time - I'm still wondering why PVE end times needed to shift so that European players are basically forced to play S2.

What the devs SHOULD do, and what they seems to be doing, is listen to feedback, and implement some changes.
Jury is still out if they do that for this feature.

I agree with you about the 95% (maybe I would be more generous and said 90%) but this feature should have been consulted anyway. What would they lose if we were aware in advance (say a week - you won't hoard enough tokens to change the economy of the game with bonus pulls)? What would they lose if we were informed about the changes and we were informed about the reasons behind them. I like to see myself as a reasonable guy so I would be open to their argumentation. I still am open to it - I would love to listen to devs now with all 20+ pages of feedback. I just think that explaining things in advance create much better impression of the development team. Even if in the end they would do what they did.

ps. I am in the team "meh+" for this change. I guess I will sell a lot of 4* covers for ISO and I will play with the heroes I like. I will not bother to champion them all as now there is literally no incentive to do it. But that is ok since the ones I like will grow more.


ps.2 Coincidentally the 95% of people who don't know what is good for the game is the same number as the probability you will not get a bonus pull from the new feature. If the devs think that 5% chance is good enough to make us excited they should have listened to the 5% and find out what we (arbitrarily I put myself in that group ) think.

Crowl

Pants1000 wrote:

I can see the downsides too. 4* champ rewards will be slower for the next couple months, until I get into a rhythm with most of the new 4's champed. My older 4's that are 5/5/2 or similar may be stuck there for a loooooong time, and some 4's that I like (but aren't top 5) will gain champ levels very slowly.

Actually 4* champ rewards will be slower from now on, you will be stuck in a cycle of getting a new one to the lower echelons of the champ rewards before they too are removed from the tokens and grind to a halt, due to iso limitations you will also end up wasting a lot more covers as less of your covers would go to champed characters (and champ rewards) and it will be vastly easier to get lopsided 1/1/5 characters too.

Crowl

Yoik wrote:

Kevin61 wrote:

Not really working as intended. I opened a Heroic token yesterday and received a Black Panther blue cover. The bonus cover I received was Vision yellow. I did not select Vision as one of my favorites (although I do have both of those characters champed so the covers just added a level to each). According to what Brigby explained above, I was supposed to receive a cover for one of the 3*'s I marked as favorite, right??

This. A friend of mine does not have any 3 stars marked as a bonus. However when they pulled from an event token they were provided a sentry cover as a bonus cover.

Can it be clarified please? Is it an extra chance for the covers you have marked ONLY? If so then its not working as intended and making up a choice on 3 stars it seems too.

OR is it an extra chance for A cover based upon the pull but if you mark a toon as a bonus then there is a slightly higher chance of getting it? Although that doesn't make sense now ive re read that.

How is it supposed to work please?

If you do not have any characters marked for a particular tier then you will get a random cover, you will not get a cover from a higher or lower tier if you do not have one listed.

They are not going to give you a 4*/5* as a bonus just because you haven't chosen any 3*s, so they give you a random one instead.

Crowl

OneLastGambit wrote:

A 2 token system seems like the most sensible way to introduce this new system.

Latest tokens contain:
Latest twelve 4* characters
Latest three 5* Characters

Classic token contains:
Everyone else

Not offering a token with latest 5*s and all the 4*s seems a needless limitation, why not let people continue to build in the most efficient way prior to this new system i.e. draw latest legends in order to get usable 5*s in a reasonable time period while building a depth of 4* roster by having all covers available to them.

Blergh

Crowl wrote:

Pants1000 wrote:

I can see the downsides too. 4* champ rewards will be slower for the next couple months, until I get into a rhythm with most of the new 4's champed. My older 4's that are 5/5/2 or similar may be stuck there for a loooooong time, and some 4's that I like (but aren't top 5) will gain champ levels very slowly.

Actually 4* champ rewards will be slower from now on, you will be stuck in a cycle of getting a new one to the lower echelons of the champ rewards before they too are removed from the tokens and grind to a halt, due to iso limitations you will also end up wasting a lot more covers as less of your covers would go to champed characters (and champ rewards) and it will be vastly easier to get lopsided 1/1/5 characters too.

I don't think people realise how quickly they are going to get the selected 12 to 13 covers.

I mean I've never horded. And with the larger 4 star pool most of those 12 characters are sitting between 13 - 9. The lowest being Riri at 2/2/3 and Captain Marvel at 1/3/4. But the next two newest are Medusa at 5/3/3 and Venom 5/2/4.

With the odds of getting these characters lowered I'll be looking at having them all fully covered most probably very soon. With pvp and PVE progression I could be getting two a week easily from latest. And I expect thats an under estimate without taking nodes/ddp/champ rewards into account.

Thid means soon I'll have absolutely no incentive to use CP or draw legendary tokens beyond the hopes of a five star.

I am already creating queues due to getting dupe colours at five - which creates a greater emphasis to horde.

Even with the two rotating out I think its going to come to a point for most people who meet progression that they'll have all but the newest four fully covered but no iso to champ them.

Meaning horde CP and Legendaries are going to become increasingly necessary to avoid waste. Thinking about 2 -3 seasons will be the norm, to build iso and allow in four to six new under cover 4s to champ. As below this point the cost-benefit will be too low.

Although, might be reading the sitution wrong.

PeeOne

Last night I marked BP and Doc Strange and GSBW IN 3* land (a couple of 4s too) pulled all the 3's as bonuses covers. So it worked for me

Tonight I didn't even get a bonus cover

broll

Blergh wrote:

Crowl wrote:

Pants1000 wrote:

I can see the downsides too. 4* champ rewards will be slower for the next couple months, until I get into a rhythm with most of the new 4's champed. My older 4's that are 5/5/2 or similar may be stuck there for a loooooong time, and some 4's that I like (but aren't top 5) will gain champ levels very slowly.

Actually 4* champ rewards will be slower from now on, you will be stuck in a cycle of getting a new one to the lower echelons of the champ rewards before they too are removed from the tokens and grind to a halt, due to iso limitations you will also end up wasting a lot more covers as less of your covers would go to champed characters (and champ rewards) and it will be vastly easier to get lopsided 1/1/5 characters too.

I don't think people realise how quickly they are going to get the selected 12 to 13 covers.

I mean I've never horded. And with the larger 4 star pool most of those 12 characters are sitting between 13 - 9. The lowest being Riri at 2/2/3 and Captain Marvel at 1/3/4. But the next two newest are Medusa at 5/3/3 and Venom 5/2/4.

With the odds of getting these characters lowered I'll be looking at having them all fully covered most probably very soon. With pvp and PVE progression I could be getting two a week easily from latest. And I expect thats an under estimate without taking nodes/ddp/champ rewards into account.

Thid means soon I'll have absolutely no incentive to use CP or draw legendary tokens beyond the hopes of a five star.

I am already creating queues due to getting dupe colours at five - which creates a greater emphasis to horde.

Even with the two rotating out I think its going to come to a point for most people who meet progression that they'll have all but the newest four fully covered but no iso to champ them.

Meaning horde CP and Legendaries are going to become increasingly necessary to avoid waste. Thinking about 2 -3 seasons will be the norm, to build iso and allow in four to six new under cover 4s to champ. As below this point the cost-benefit will be too low.

Although, might be reading the sitution wrong.

This is my take on it as well. This is likely to increase hoarding, not slow it.

Alsmir

smoq84 wrote:

For me this feature looks great.

Today I had two bonus covers:
- 4* X-23 red cover which was my unicorn for a looong time
- 5* OML - it great to again have a chance for one of Classic 5*'s while pulling from Latest


I can see that having only 12 latest 4* in the packs is not the best idea. You don't get the older characters, and to get newest really fast now, so the ISO shortage hits harder.
But on the other hand we have better control what we pull from tokens, now you can better prepare for what can happen, make some strategic decisions and decide to hoard or not to hoard.

This feature is not ideal, but in the end I find it very useful because it makes pulling from tokens less random. And randomness was always the worst thing in the game, right?

Or Demi has a better control of what we pull.

All we can do is pull... or don't pull.

OneLastGambit

Crowl wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

A 2 token system seems like the most sensible way to introduce this new system.

Latest tokens contain:
Latest twelve 4* characters
Latest three 5* Characters

Classic token contains:
Everyone else

Not offering a token with latest 5*s and all the 4*s seems a needless limitation, why not let people continue to build in the most efficient way prior to this new system i.e. draw latest legends in order to get usable 5*s in a reasonable time period while building a depth of 4* roster by having all covers available to them.

I can see where you are coming from but I was attempting to bridge what the Devs were attempting with what the forum is demanding.

Perhaps maybe have it like so...
Latest = recent 3 5* and also most recent 12 4*
Classic= All 4s and oldest 5s.

then people can carry on pulling from the diluted token pool and everyone is happy.

broll

ZeroKarma wrote:

Completely agree with Polares. There are two subsets of players excited by this change, and we have heard from one. For the recent 4* transitioners this is their chance to get a focused group of 4* leveled and champed.

The other group is superwhales and they are pleased because, as some have mentioned, they no longer need covers for earlier 4* they have at level 370.

There is an ocean of players between those two levels, and we are all annoyed to pissed at the change. I went from being able to use 85% of my draws from LT's to less than 50%. That is AWFUL! And the only way to get back to that level is 2 million+ ISO and champing characters outside of any reasonable priority order.

I'm a 4* transitioner and I hate this. All of the good 4*s are now out of CP packs except for bonus. The bonus chance is 5%, so if you're pulling classics that 1 every 400 CP spent and THAT's only IF you don't proc a 5* instead of a 4*, so the odds are probably closer to 3 - 4 % when you factor that in. This is going to be a GIGANTIC slow down of my roster development for the characters I want to champion. I will however be able to champion the new trash that I don't care too (wee ).

Pros for 4* transitioners:
- Fewer wasted covers
- Able to target specific characters and not be in a situation where you get 13 for Mr F before say Hulkbuster
- Much faster covering of new 4*s

Cons:
- Rostering of ANY 4* not in the 12 (even one(s) you favorite) will almost certainly slow dramatically.
- The ISO cost of keeping up with championing the new 12 4* (when they may not even be that good).
- More 5*s shoved down your throat weather you really want them or not (though this could arguably become a pro if they do go forward with the plan to scale by SCL and release 9 and/or 10)

broll

monsieurmojo wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Wumpushunter wrote:

Is it unusual for such a long controversial thread to go unanswered by someone in authority? I am new here and wondering if d3 will actually respond to board controversy?

This thread seems fairly tame by "controversial thread" standards on this board. No one has started the ad hominem attacks yet, or really busted out the 'tinykitty's.

And it's only 25 pages. I think the baking thead was pushing 50, and the true healing thread back in 2014 was more than 100 pages iirc.

Yeah, the Boss Rush thread was a respectable 42 pages.

And ended with them saying that they were refusing to comment on it any further. I'm glad to hear Brigby indicate that they may eventually be more discussion on this.

Lukoil

Rostering of ANY 4* not in the 12 (even one(s) you favorite) will almost certainly slow dramatically.

If you favorite only one character that will increase rostering speed. Before it was 2% chance to get cover for specific character (and this chance was deacreasing with each new hero released) Now for 1 charcter that would be 5% chance to draw him from legendary pack.

Crowl

OneLastGambit wrote:

Crowl wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

A 2 token system seems like the most sensible way to introduce this new system.

Latest tokens contain:
Latest twelve 4* characters
Latest three 5* Characters

Classic token contains:
Everyone else

Not offering a token with latest 5*s and all the 4*s seems a needless limitation, why not let people continue to build in the most efficient way prior to this new system i.e. draw latest legends in order to get usable 5*s in a reasonable time period while building a depth of 4* roster by having all covers available to them.

I can see where you are coming from but I was attempting to bridge what the Devs were attempting with what the forum is demanding.

Perhaps maybe have it like so...
Latest = recent 3 5* and also most recent 12 4*
Classic= All 4s and oldest 5s.

then people can carry on pulling from the diluted token pool and everyone is happy.

There would be nothing wrong with them offering two versions of the Latest token, one for the whales with just newest characters and one for people trying to get grow a diverse 4* roster while getting usable 5*s as readily as possible, let people vote with their CPs which of those was the more desirable token. They have split the classic and latest tokens onto two pages now, so there is clearly room to add a second token to each page since there used to be two on the LT page before.

D O W N

Is the bonus feature even working for everyone?? It seemed fine the first day, but in the last 24 hours I've received zero Bonus heroes from multiple 3 star pulls (3 of them from Elite Tokens, 4 from Heroic Packs) and 1 4 star pull from a Latest Legends pack.

Pretty annoying- I even rebooted the app before that Latest Legends pack pull.

Anybody else seeing this today?

Vhailorx

Lukoil wrote:

Rostering of ANY 4* not in the 12 (even one(s) you favorite) will almost certainly slow dramatically.

If you favorite only one character that will increase rostering speed. Before it was 2% chance to get cover for specific character (and this chance was deacreasing with each new hero released) Now for 1 charcter that would be 5% chance to draw him from legendary pack.

But there are currently 31 such 4*s. Let's consider LTs. the old system offered a ~2% chance for every one of those 4*s; that means that roughly 62% of LT pulls would build one of those old characters. The new system offers a ~5% chance for ALL of them combined (and it's actually a bit less than that since some LT pulls will be 5*s instead of 4*s). Sure you can apportion that 5% to match your preferences, but it's still just 5%.

So you tell me how taking older 4*s away from 62% of my LT pulls will do anything but dramatically slow down the rate at which I cover those characters. Even if I do get a bonus 5%.

Crowl

Vhailorx wrote:

Lukoil wrote:

Rostering of ANY 4* not in the 12 (even one(s) you favorite) will almost certainly slow dramatically.

If you favorite only one character that will increase rostering speed. Before it was 2% chance to get cover for specific character (and this chance was deacreasing with each new hero released) Now for 1 charcter that would be 5% chance to draw him from legendary pack.

But there are currently 31 such 4*s. Let's consider LTs. the old system offered a ~2% chance for every one of those 4*s; that means that roughly 62% of LT pulls would build one of those old characters. The new system offers a ~5% chance for ALL of them combined (and it's actually a bit less than that since some LT pulls will be 5*s instead of 4*s). Sure you can apportion that 5% to match your preferences, but it's still just 5%.

So you tell me how taking older 4*s away from 62% of my LT pulls will do anything but dramatically slow down the rate at which I cover those characters. Even if I do get a bonus 5%.

Indeed and while some of those pulls would be for less desirable 4*s, they would still be giving champ rewards and there are a lot more than just 1 or 2 good characters in the vaulted 3/4 of the 4*s.

JamieMadrox

D O W N wrote:

Is the bonus feature even working for everyone?? It seemed fine the first day, but in the last 24 hours I've received zero Bonus heroes from multiple 3 star pulls (3 of them from Elite Tokens, 4 from Heroic Packs) and 1 4 star pull from a Latest Legends pack.

Pretty annoying- I even rebooted the app before that Latest Legends pack pull.

Anybody else seeing this today?

It's random so in theory it's possible to go forever without getting a bonus hero. Yay RNG!