New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

HobieCat76

broll wrote:

ZeroKarma wrote:

Completely agree with Polares. There are two subsets of players excited by this change, and we have heard from one. For the recent 4* transitioners this is their chance to get a focused group of 4* leveled and champed.

The other group is superwhales and they are pleased because, as some have mentioned, they no longer need covers for earlier 4* they have at level 370.

There is an ocean of players between those two levels, and we are all annoyed to pissed at the change. I went from being able to use 85% of my draws from LT's to less than 50%. That is AWFUL! And the only way to get back to that level is 2 million+ ISO and champing characters outside of any reasonable priority order.

I'm a 4* transitioner and I hate this. All of the good 4*s are now out of CP packs except for bonus. The bonus chance is 5%, so if you're pulling classics that 1 every 400 CP spent and THAT's only IF you don't proc a 5* instead of a 4*, so the odds are probably closer to 3 - 4 % when you factor that in. This is going to be a GIGANTIC slow down of my roster development for the characters I want to champion. I will however be able to champion the new trash that I don't care too (wee ).

Pros for 4* transitioners:
- Fewer wasted covers
- Able to target specific characters and not be in a situation where you get 13 for Mr F before say Hulkbuster
- Much faster covering of new 4*s

Cons:
- Rostering of ANY 4* not in the 12 (even one(s) you favorite) will almost certainly slow dramatically.
- The ISO cost of keeping up with championing the new 12 4* (when they may not even be that good).
- More 5*s shoved down your throat weather you really want them or not (though this could arguably become a pro if they do go forward with the plan to scale by SCL and release 9 and/or 10)

^ THIS! I rarely post (clearly, if you just look at my status), but the above perfectly captures my sentiments as well.

EDIT: After a little more stewing on this, I just wanted to also add this other point that's bothering me about this change. I'm not a whale by any stretch, but I do spend money on this game. And, when I spend money on this game, it's to buy Hero Points. And, when I get Hero Points, I've prioritized using them to get roster spots. Sure, I open packs every so often, but I've really been focusing my purchases on developing as broad of a roster as possible. I'm fairly certain that I'm not the only person to do this.

I feel that this change punishes me for doing this because, AT BEST, I have to be super micro-manage-y with my Favorites to cover my vaulted 4* and, at worst, I just watch them sit uncovered effectively forever. It also disincentives people from wanting to increase their rosters. When the majority of 4* are vaulted, there's little need to spend money on increasing your roster size. (Unless, now that I think about it even further, that is part of the reasoning for this change?)

OneLastGambit

Jamie Madrox wrote:

D O W N wrote:

Is the bonus feature even working for everyone?? It seemed fine the first day, but in the last 24 hours I've received zero Bonus heroes from multiple 3 star pulls (3 of them from Elite Tokens, 4 from Heroic Packs) and 1 4 star pull from a Latest Legends pack.

Pretty annoying- I even rebooted the app before that Latest Legends pack pull.

Anybody else seeing this today?

It's random so in theory it's possible to go forever without getting a bonus hero. Yay RNG!

Its equally possible to get a bonus with every pull

WEBGAS

There is only one word for this new system: SUCKS!

firethorne

PeeOne wrote:

One of my alliance members has asked why Yelena is "limited" when selecting favourites

Anyone able to help?

Because she is the 1* equivalent of Bagman. She was also removed from tokens, and you only get her from PvP wins. Though, she doesn't get as much attention as Bagman, because in addition to being a laughably under-powered character, she also has no champ rewards.

Dayv

Freelancer wrote:

Sure would be a great time to introduce a 15cp 'Ancient' Legendaries store!

I'd buy that over and over.

nickaraxnos

Hi to everyone.

Few thoughts why I think the new bh thing is not good for the majority of the players which are low and mid tier like me.
I play every day pve and usually I finish at top 10. At pvp I can get every time to 400 points for the 50hp and rarely to 10cp reward.

My roster has all the 2* champed (and farming them), I own all the 3* and all except 2-3 are champed, own all the 4* except devil dino (no one champed yet) and the most covers for 4* are 12 for rulk and spider woman. Every other 4* are undercovered between 3-8. I also own all the 5* except surfer and rogers.

Lets see why I am not happy.
I can get 2cp (cause I own all the 4, 3 and 2*) every day from ddq. I can also get 2 more from missions in pve. 3-5 cps from placing at top 10 every day (I ll calculate 4) plus 25 of them every 3-4 days depending how long the story mode is. Lets say its almost 6cps from that every day.

So from all that we have : 2+2+4+6=14cps every day. I ll give an extra more cause of pvp, gifts from alliance etc. Total 15cp every day.
I can open 3 legendary tokens (20cp each) every 4 days. In order to get a bh (4* or 5*) with 5% luck average I must open 20 tokens. Meaning I can get an extra cover (that later be duplicate) after 20 days. All of this time I ll be getting heroes from latest releases and most of them I don’t like.
And when I ll get that one cover it wont help me much cause most of my 4* are undercovered.

Lets go now to an older player. All this time he had the benefit of gathering hp, cps, tokens and iso because his roster was where he wanted it to be. With this new feature he can open at a single day too many legendary tokens, 10packs heroics, standarts, single heroics etc. So in a single day he can have the covers of the new heroes guaranteed plus the bh.

How that can be fair? The gap between high tier players and everyone else will only get bigger.
Also I am loosing the fun of opening an lt and wait to see what I ll get from all the heroes.

Things are worst for players that cant get to top 10 pve as I do.

One last thing. Before bh I could have a chance of competing an older player because he could have lets say too many 4* champed but because of bad luck he was missing a good five like oml while I was lucky enough to have some covers of him that helped me at finishing pve as fast as he. Now I am loosing this small advantage too. He can choose as favorite this one card and sooner or sooner he ll get him cause of the hoarding.

broll

Vhailorx wrote:

Lukoil wrote:

Rostering of ANY 4* not in the 12 (even one(s) you favorite) will almost certainly slow dramatically.

If you favorite only one character that will increase rostering speed. Before it was 2% chance to get cover for specific character (and this chance was deacreasing with each new hero released) Now for 1 charcter that would be 5% chance to draw him from legendary pack.

But there are currently 31 such 4*s. Let's consider LTs. the old system offered a ~2% chance for every one of those 4*s; that means that roughly 62% of LT pulls would build one of those old characters. The new system offers a ~5% chance for ALL of them combined (and it's actually a bit less than that since some LT pulls will be 5*s instead of 4*s). Sure you can apportion that 5% to match your preferences, but it's still just 5%.

So you tell me how taking older 4*s away from 62% of my LT pulls will do anything but dramatically slow down the rate at which I cover those characters. Even if I do get a bonus 5%.

Correct so my statement of "Rostering of ANY 4* not in the 12 (even one(s) you favorite) will almost certainly slow dramatically." would be more accurate if it said:

Rostering the vaulted 4*s will be dramatically slower. Except for cases where you favorite only 1 4*, then that 1 character get's a boost of ~2% while the rest drop dramatically.

I'm sold!

firethorne

broll wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Lukoil wrote:

Rostering of ANY 4* not in the 12 (even one(s) you favorite) will almost certainly slow dramatically.

If you favorite only one character that will increase rostering speed. Before it was 2% chance to get cover for specific character (and this chance was deacreasing with each new hero released) Now for 1 charcter that would be 5% chance to draw him from legendary pack.

But there are currently 31 such 4*s. Let's consider LTs. the old system offered a ~2% chance for every one of those 4*s; that means that roughly 62% of LT pulls would build one of those old characters. The new system offers a ~5% chance for ALL of them combined (and it's actually a bit less than that since some LT pulls will be 5*s instead of 4*s). Sure you can apportion that 5% to match your preferences, but it's still just 5%.

So you tell me how taking older 4*s away from 62% of my LT pulls will do anything but dramatically slow down the rate at which I cover those characters. Even if I do get a bonus 5%.

Correct so my statement of "Rostering of ANY 4* not in the 12 (even one(s) you favorite) will almost certainly slow dramatically." would be more accurate if it said:

Rostering the vaulted 4*s will be dramatically slower. Except for cases where you favorite only 1 4*, then that 1 character get's a boost of ~2% while the rest drop dramatically.

I'm sold!

Yeah, I'm not sold on the "But, you'll get the one character you favorited faster!" arguments either, knowing that the pace on 32 others has been reduced to near zero. Not a good trade.

madok

Really wish they would have included 2*s in the bonus characters just to help with our farms to help build all the required ISO. It would have offset what has felt like a nerf to 2* drops in LRs as well.

broll

madok wrote:

Really wish they would have included 2*s in the bonus characters just to help with our farms to help build all the required ISO. It would have offset what has felt like a nerf to 2* drops in LRs as well.

You really want them to have make only 3 2* available?

n25philly

broll wrote:

madok wrote:

Really wish they would have included 2*s in the bonus characters just to help with our farms to help build all the required ISO. It would have offset what has felt like a nerf to 2* drops in LRs as well.

You really want them to have make only 3 2* available?

They vault them all but moonstone. The jokes are finally real!

Dayv

Vhailorx wrote:

Everyone likes the favorites system. Who wouldn't, it's 5% more covers of our choice. That's great! this game has been absolutely desperate for such a mechanic for years.

The problem is tying that very positive change to the new character vaulting system. Dilution was a real issue. But bonus heroes would go a long way towards mitigating it. Why then ALSO make this massive change to the way tokens work? (A change that just happens to appear likely to substantially slow down the rate at which vets can get their older champs up into the 340+ 4* champ promise land, and also makes long term hoard much less efficient.) Demi is fiddling with a lot of different levers all at once, and IMO the most rational explanation for makings changes this way is that they want to obfuscate of the more player-unfriendly changes by doing everything at the same time.

This, right here. All of this.

Introduced on its own, Bonus Heroes would be a new feature receiving a warm welcome from nearly 100% of players. Tied to a massive and for many players deeply upsetting change in cover availability, it stops feeling like a great new reward stream and starts to look like an inadequate apology for the return of cover vaulting.

Dayv

New McG wrote:

The choice was between "keep a diluted 4* token pool" and "limit it by vaulting older 4*" They picked a side, and it allows for focused fire toward roster building.

That implies those were the only two possible options. Lots of other plans could have hit the table. This could be one of the changes they surveyed players (customers) on in advance. Forum the looks of it, many players would have strongly voted against the return of cover vaulting. This is unsurprising, it was certainly not loved the last time around.

Imagine the outcry if they implement bonus characters, keep the token pool the same as it was, and then someone draws a 6th or greater cover on a non-covered 4* from a legendary, and then get a bonus cover that's also fits that description. It would be "what's the point of bonus covers if they're as useless as the diluted tokens we get them from?"

There is absolutely nothing in cover vaulting to prevent the situation you describe here. The sixth-cover problem is unchanged no matter how deep the pool of characters is.

kidicarus

I think many of the veterans already knew about bonus heroes through the "deep web" months before it was finally introduced. Many of us were sincerely looking forward to it. I think we were looking forward to it because we didn't think it would be tied to vaulted covers.

I don't really have much to add to this discussion. Many of the points elucidated so far in this thread correspond to mine - I just want to raise my hand and say - me too, I feel the pain.

Personally, even though I've spent money here and there i'm probably 99% F2p. I've champed all 4* heroes except for agent venom, danvers, mordo and Coulson through sheer will and determination. So yeah, they're next in line for champing. I champed everyone so as not to waste a single pull and under the new system every cover will also be a champion level for me. It's still a major bummer not making significant progress on the rest of my roster.

Also, how are newer players going to deal with essential nodes? if you vault heroes behind a bonus system, just how lucky will they have to be to have the required hero for an event if they're starting out. Even with pvp, where every event is a 3* essential, sure they could use a loaner but they will never catch up with those guys with maxed vaulted 3* heroes. Won't this make those events more inaccessible for them?

I even feel sorry for whales - they must have some vaulted dupe champed 4*s that they'll have trouble max champing.

WalrusGooner

I am a mostly F2P (spent $37US on the game total) on day 362, with 13 2* (all but my farmed Hawkeye champed), 39 3* (10 champed), 19 4* (most with one cover, highest with 6), and no 5*. The money I have spent on this game so far has been in service of embracing both the Champion system and the PVE/DDQ Essential system, and thus ensuring I can roster, and eventually properly cover, all 2*, 3*, and 4*. With particular regard to 4*, lacking the ability/will to roster them all at this time, I've focused on rostering those that the player base rates highly -- Peggy, RHulk, Cyke, etc. (RNGesus has not blessed me with an Iceman just yet.) The Bonus Heroes change helps some with this. The vaulting change, however, most certainly does not. When the time comes for me to make my 4* transition, I will have a very hard time properly covering those 4* I've identified as most helpful to me, coupled with pressure to find roster space for and then champ newer 4* that may not be useful to me at all. I'll likely continue my existing play habits (DDQ and 2-4 clears of PVE) for now, but I was already looking ahead to the 4* transition and thinking it was going to be painfully slow. Prioritizing a wide roster over a deep one, it now feels like that transition will be even slower, and may bring me to a point where I rather quickly decide to move on.

OneLastGambit

kidicarus wrote:

I think many of the veterans already knew about bonus heroes through the "deep web" months before it was finally introduced. Many of us were sincerely looking forward to it. I think we were looking forward to it because we didn't think it would be tied to vaulted covers.

I don't really have much to add to this discussion. Many of the points elucidated so far in this thread correspond to mine - I just want to raise my hand and say - me too, I feel the pain.

Personally, even though I've spent money here and there i'm probably 99% F2p. I've champed all 4* heroes except for agent venom, danvers, mordo and Coulson through sheer will and determination. So yeah, they're next in line for champing. I champed everyone so as not to waste a single pull and under the new system every cover will also be a champion level for me. It's still a major bummer not making significant progress on the rest of my roster.

Also, how are newer players going to deal with essential nodes? if you vault heroes behind a bonus system, just how lucky will they have to be to have the required hero for an event if they're starting out. Even with pvp, where every event is a 3* essential, sure they could use a loaner but they will never catch up with those guys with maxed vaulted 3* heroes. Won't this make those events more inaccessible for them?

I even feel sorry for KDN - he must have some vaulted dupe champed 4*s that he'll have trouble max champing.

This is definitely an unintended side effect of the new system. Devs better make sure that only the new 12 will be essential for PVE otherwise a HUGE amount of people wont be able to compete.

GurlBYE

OneLastGambit wrote:

Jamie Madrox wrote:

D O W N wrote:

Is the bonus feature even working for everyone?? It seemed fine the first day, but in the last 24 hours I've received zero Bonus heroes from multiple 3 star pulls (3 of them from Elite Tokens, 4 from Heroic Packs) and 1 4 star pull from a Latest Legends pack.

Pretty annoying- I even rebooted the app before that Latest Legends pack pull.

Anybody else seeing this today?

It's random so in theory it's possible to go forever without getting a bonus hero. Yay RNG!

Its equally possible to get a bonus with every pull

Possible. Sure.

Likely, Not a shot.

10 draws.

(all).05^10= Abysmally low. since it's -14 it's lower than a hundreth of a percent. lets not even go further down than that.

(none).95^10=59%

But regardless each draw is still 5%

There should have without question been some sort of sub system or something.
Other games have started using bad luck preventative systems that essentially raise the occurrence of a rare/unlikely thing the longer that thing goes without happening.

If they even programmed it to go up .5% every-time someone didn't draw the "optimal" thing from a type of token (and with vaults there aren't many left) it'd make a difference.
Otherwise it's still luck based progression and we will still see threads about how terrible it is with people saying how great it is all based on anecdotes.

madok

n25philly wrote:

broll wrote:

madok wrote:

Really wish they would have included 2*s in the bonus characters just to help with our farms to help build all the required ISO. It would have offset what has felt like a nerf to 2* drops in LRs as well.

You really want them to have make only 3 2* available?

They vault them all but moonstone. The jokes are finally real!

No. Vault them all but Bagman! Who doesn't want more LTs?

n25philly

madok wrote:

n25philly wrote:

broll wrote:

madok wrote:

Really wish they would have included 2*s in the bonus characters just to help with our farms to help build all the required ISO. It would have offset what has felt like a nerf to 2* drops in LRs as well.

You really want them to have make only 3 2* available?

They vault them all but moonstone. The jokes are finally real!

No. Vault them all but Bagman! Who doesn't want more LTs?

Bagman would be nice since I get like 1 cover every 6 months, but it would be a lot funnier with moonstone considering how many times we've all said she is all we get from tokens.

Jaedenkaal

OneLastGambit wrote:

kidicarus wrote:

I think many of the veterans already knew about bonus heroes through the "deep web" months before it was finally introduced. Many of us were sincerely looking forward to it. I think we were looking forward to it because we didn't think it would be tied to vaulted covers.

I don't really have much to add to this discussion. Many of the points elucidated so far in this thread correspond to mine - I just want to raise my hand and say - me too, I feel the pain.

Personally, even though I've spent money here and there i'm probably 99% F2p. I've champed all 4* heroes except for agent venom, danvers, mordo and Coulson through sheer will and determination. So yeah, they're next in line for champing. I champed everyone so as not to waste a single pull and under the new system every cover will also be a champion level for me. It's still a major bummer not making significant progress on the rest of my roster.

Also, how are newer players going to deal with essential nodes? if you vault heroes behind a bonus system, just how lucky will they have to be to have the required hero for an event if they're starting out. Even with pvp, where every event is a 3* essential, sure they could use a loaner but they will never catch up with those guys with maxed vaulted 3* heroes. Won't this make those events more inaccessible for them?

I even feel sorry for KDN - he must have some vaulted dupe champed 4*s that he'll have trouble max champing.

This is definitely an unintended side effect of the new system. Devs better make sure that only the new 12 will be essential for PVE otherwise a HUGE amount of people wont be able to compete.

You can still get them in the very event in which they are required, at the very worst. At SCL 5-6 or something.