New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

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Comments

  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    nick_chicane wrote:
    I did have to chuckle a bit when I looked at Ragnarok's pack contents and it features no Ragnarok. icon_lol.gif

    It does seem a little bit bonkers when the guy on the cover isn't actually in any of the packs.

    You sure? You looked in the 3* section, right? He's the pink-highlighted one in the top left.
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jaedenkaal wrote:
    nick_chicane wrote:
    I did have to chuckle a bit when I looked at Ragnarok's pack contents and it features no Ragnarok. icon_lol.gif

    It does seem a little bit bonkers when the guy on the cover isn't actually in any of the packs.

    You sure? You looked in the 3* section, right? He's the pink-highlighted one in the top left.

    Oh yeah, must have missed him. OK, so not quite as bonkers then. icon_lol.gif
  • Pinko_McFly
    Pinko_McFly Posts: 282 Mover and Shaker
    Just posting to voice my reservations against this system.
    I have just hit the halfway point with champions 4*s and was looking forward to get to a point where I could stop feeling the need to hoard my CP and open some legendaries (without wasting so many covers) and reap the awards of adding champion levels to my 4*. The latter part is what really ticks me off about this update. We champion them so they are strong but also to get these rewards. Not a fan of you clamping down on this revenue source.

    If you had left the classics alone ( or taken out the recent 12 4*s), no one would be complaining and would probably be applauding the change. Instead you vaulted these characters with no chance of release ( a feature the old vault at least had).

    Is there a daily 4* DDQ node on the way that will at least give us a steady stream of champion levels? I doubt it since DDQ has 11 months before it's next update, but at least it would have taken the sting out of this clampdown.
  • Reecoh
    Reecoh Posts: 210 Tile Toppler
    wade66 wrote:
    This tries to solve to many problems with the least amount of work. People complain about new character releases because it takes forever to get them covered to usable levels, hence the tokens now focusing on the newest ones. While the favorite system is a means to give player control over an infinitesimal portion of the RNG locked progression system without flooding the game to appease the players.

    Seems to me that the least amount of work to address this issue would have been to leave the tokens alone & limit the Favorites/Bonus Heroes to the most recent 12 (or whatever). The basic mechanics don't change but we get a small uptick in latest characters for some amount of time after they are released.

    The way they have it now seems backwards to me.
  • Cthulhu
    Cthulhu ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 410 Site Admin
    Overall this is a way to fix how many characters were in the packs, pack dilution. Now, you have the latest characters and any number of bonus characters that you select to help determine your draw. My first pull, I was able to get 5 bonus covers of a character I hearted by opening a 40 pack. I know that's a lot of hero points for that particular pack. But the main thing is that now you select the covers that you want from all of the characters so it's more focused on what you need, rather then a huge number of all the characters you may or may not need.

    Thank you all for the feedback, please continue to try it out and let me know what you think. I'll do my best to read more comments and answer any questions in this thread.
  • Moon Roach
    Moon Roach Posts: 2,863 Chairperson of the Boards
    Cthulhu wrote:
    Overall this is a way to fix how many characters were in the packs, pack dilution. Now, you have the latest characters and any number of bonus characters that you select to help determine your draw. My first pull, I was able to get 5 bonus covers of a character I hearted by opening a 40 pack. I know that's a lot of hero points for that particular pack. But the main thing is that now you select the covers that you want from all of the characters so it's more focused on what you need, rather then a huge number of all the characters you may or may not need.

    Thank you all for the feedback, please continue to try it out and let me know what you think. I'll do my best to read more comments and answer any questions in this thread.

    Interesting. Isn't the next logical step for this that a pack contains only favourites? Then it would be really focussed.
  • Nepenthe
    Nepenthe Posts: 283 Mover and Shaker
    Cthulhu wrote:
    Overall this is a way to fix how many characters were in the packs, pack dilution. Now, you have the latest characters and any number of bonus characters that you select to help determine your draw. My first pull, I was able to get 5 bonus covers of a character I hearted by opening a 40 pack. I know that's a lot of hero points for that particular pack. But the main thing is that now you select the covers that you want from all of the characters so it's more focused on what you need, rather then a huge number of all the characters you may or may not need.

    Thank you all for the feedback, please continue to try it out and let me know what you think. I'll do my best to read more comments and answer any questions in this thread.

    So far I've pulled 4 bonus 3*s from elites & standards, 1 bonus 4* from a heroic, and 1 bonus 5* from a classic LT. The lasy was particularly nice because the non-bonus was an unusable black SS for my 1/1/5 SS.
    I don't think anyone is complaining about the bonus heroes portion of the change.

    The change affects the 4* tier most drastically, because of the ratio of unavailable to available heroes, and because LTs amount for the majority of 4* covers earned by most active players. Wouldn't a better fix for cover dilution in packs be separating them into different types of tokens so players still have a choice? This is what you did with the 5* tier, after all.

    Thank you for reading our feedback, and I hope you will consider changes based on it. Limiting which characters were in packs was tried before, with rotating some 3*s out for months at a time, and it wasn't popular then either.
  • spatenfloot
    spatenfloot Posts: 662 Critical Contributor
    Moon Roach wrote:
    Cthulhu wrote:
    Overall this is a way to fix how many characters were in the packs, pack dilution. Now, you have the latest characters and any number of bonus characters that you select to help determine your draw. My first pull, I was able to get 5 bonus covers of a character I hearted by opening a 40 pack. I know that's a lot of hero points for that particular pack. But the main thing is that now you select the covers that you want from all of the characters so it's more focused on what you need, rather then a huge number of all the characters you may or may not need.

    Thank you all for the feedback, please continue to try it out and let me know what you think. I'll do my best to read more comments and answer any questions in this thread.

    Interesting. Isn't the next logical step for this that a pack contains only favourites? Then it would be really focussed.
    Just sell 40 packs of each 4 star.
    Profit.
  • Cthulhu
    Cthulhu ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 410 Site Admin
    I understand what your saying. You guys would like a pack of 4 stars that are all older 4 star covers and a pack of new 4 star covers, but what I'm saying is you can select the exact 4 stars you want to focus on and when you get a bonus cover it will be the exact cover you have hearted. Now you can select the 4 stars you want to work on, and get them as bonus draw, so if your working to get covers for a few older 4 stars, just select those few older 4 stars.
  • Stax the Foyer
    Stax the Foyer Posts: 941 Critical Contributor
    Cthulhu wrote:
    I understand what your saying. You guys would like a pack of 4 stars that are all older 4 star covers and a pack of new 4 star covers, but what I'm saying is you can select the exact 4 stars you want to focus on and when you get a bonus cover it will be the exact cover you have hearted. Now you can select the 4 stars you want to work on, and get them as bonus draw, so if your working to get covers for a few older 4 stars, just select those few older 4 stars.

    You can have as many older 4*s as you want, as long as there's only two of them.
  • Nepenthe
    Nepenthe Posts: 283 Mover and Shaker
    Cthulhu wrote:
    Overall this is a way to fix how many characters were in the packs, pack dilution. Now, you have the latest characters and any number of bonus characters that you select to help determine your draw. My first pull, I was able to get 5 bonus covers of a character I hearted by opening a 40 pack. I know that's a lot of hero points for that particular pack. But the main thing is that now you select the covers that you want from all of the characters so it's more focused on what you need, rather then a huge number of all the characters you may or may not need.

    Thank you all for the feedback, please continue to try it out and let me know what you think. I'll do my best to read more comments and answer any questions in this thread.

    Another thought, on rereading the part I bolded above: The "main thing" as you call it is the part that only happens 5% of the time. Instead of buying a 40 of heroics, try picking a few favorite older 4* heroes and opening a dozen or so classic legends tokens. Was the main portion of that experience getting maybe 1 or 2 bonus heroes that you had control over, or was it getting a bunch of the newer segregated 4*s you didn't pick and "may or may not need"?

    Thanks again.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    Cthulhu wrote:
    Overall this is a way to fix how many characters were in the packs, pack dilution. Now, you have the latest characters and any number of bonus characters that you select to help determine your draw. My first pull, I was able to get 5 bonus covers of a character I hearted by opening a 40 pack. I know that's a lot of hero points for that particular pack. But the main thing is that now you select the covers that you want from all of the characters so it's more focused on what you need, rather then a huge number of all the characters you may or may not need.

    Thank you all for the feedback, please continue to try it out and let me know what you think. I'll do my best to read more comments and answer any questions in this thread.
    Please show me a LT 40 pack
  • Cthulhu
    Cthulhu ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 410 Site Admin
    It's both. You get the new covers mixed with any selected 4 stars that you would like to get.

    This is an attempt to allow you to choose what you want and have a better chance at getting what you want.
  • Nepenthe
    Nepenthe Posts: 283 Mover and Shaker
    Cthulhu wrote:
    I understand what your saying. You guys would like a pack of 4 stars that are all older 4 star covers and a pack of new 4 star covers, but what I'm saying is you can select the exact 4 stars you want to focus on and when you get a bonus cover it will be the exact cover you have hearted. Now you can select the 4 stars you want to work on, and get them as bonus draw, so if your working to get covers for a few older 4 stars, just select those few older 4 stars.

    And we do understand what you're saying about favoriting older 4*s, BUT:
    That kind of works if there's only 1-3 older ones. If there's, say, 10 older 4*s I'd like a chance to get, my 5% chance at bonus hero is divided between them so each has a 0.5% chance. Compared to each of the 12 latest having a 7.08% chance. Big difference.
  • Felonius
    Felonius Posts: 289 Mover and Shaker
    edited March 2017
    DayvBang wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    Everyone likes the favorites system. Who wouldn't, it's 5% more covers of our choice. That's great! this game has been absolutely desperate for such a mechanic for years.

    The problem is tying that very positive change to the new character vaulting system. Dilution was a real issue. But bonus heroes would go a long way towards mitigating it. Why then ALSO make this massive change to the way tokens work? (A change that just happens to appear likely to substantially slow down the rate at which vets can get their older champs up into the 340+ 4* champ promise land, and also makes long term hoard much less efficient.) Demi is fiddling with a lot of different levers all at once, and IMO the most rational explanation for makings changes this way is that they want to obfuscate of the more player-unfriendly changes by doing everything at the same time.
    This, right here. All of this.

    Introduced on its own, Bonus Heroes would be a new feature receiving a warm welcome from nearly 100% of players. Tied to a massive and for many players deeply upsetting change in cover availability, it stops feeling like a great new reward stream and starts to look like an inadequate apology for the return of cover vaulting.
    I totally agree with DavyBang and Vhailorx.

    My biggest complaint about vaulting is that it nukes the resources my champs were generating. Easy solution to dilution? As others have said in this thread, put the newest characters (3x 5* and 12x 4*, for example) into the Latest LTs, and put the remainders into one (or more) Classic (etc.) LTs. Let the players decide which characters they want to chase.
    Cthulhu wrote:
    Overall this is a way to fix how many characters were in the packs, pack dilution. Now, you have the latest characters and any number of bonus characters that you select to help determine your draw. My first pull, I was able to get 5 bonus covers of a character I hearted by opening a 40 pack. I know that's a lot of hero points for that particular pack. But the main thing is that now you select the covers that you want from all of the characters so it's more focused on what you need, rather then a huge number of all the characters you may or may not need.

    Thank you all for the feedback, please continue to try it out and let me know what you think. I'll do my best to read more comments and answer any questions in this thread.
    At first I was like: Yay! A RedName, but then I read how he got lucky with 5 bonus heroes in his 40pk, which makes the system Working as Intended, everything is rosy, and I some how got the feeling that these 30-some pages of discussion are being neatly swept under a rug as irrelevant, hands dusted, moving on...

    I purchased a 40-pack, and got ZERO bonus heroes (true story!).

    >self-edited to remove some extraneous sarcasm...<
  • Cthulhu
    Cthulhu ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 410 Site Admin
    fmftint wrote:
    Cthulhu wrote:
    Overall this is a way to fix how many characters were in the packs, pack dilution. Now, you have the latest characters and any number of bonus characters that you select to help determine your draw. My first pull, I was able to get 5 bonus covers of a character I hearted by opening a 40 pack. I know that's a lot of hero points for that particular pack. But the main thing is that now you select the covers that you want from all of the characters so it's more focused on what you need, rather then a huge number of all the characters you may or may not need.

    Thank you all for the feedback, please continue to try it out and let me know what you think. I'll do my best to read more comments and answer any questions in this thread.
    Please show me a LT 40 pack

    I didn't mention specifically what I opened, I opened the Heroic 40x pack.
  • Cthulhu
    Cthulhu ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 410 Site Admin
    I'm in here on a Friday instead of going home early and sweeping things under the rug. We talked about this thread this morning and I'm explaining what was intended by the entire team. I also mentioned that I will continue to look at feedback and answer questions.
  • kidicarus
    kidicarus Posts: 420 Mover and Shaker
    Cthulhu wrote:
    Overall this is a way to fix how many characters were in the packs, pack dilution. Now, you have the latest characters and any number of bonus characters that you select to help determine your draw. My first pull, I was able to get 5 bonus covers of a character I hearted by opening a 40 pack. I know that's a lot of hero points for that particular pack. But the main thing is that now you select the covers that you want from all of the characters so it's more focused on what you need, rather then a huge number of all the characters you may or may not need.

    Thank you all for the feedback, please continue to try it out and let me know what you think. I'll do my best to read more comments and answer any questions in this thread.

    Most of the comments in here are for people angry that they will not be able to pull significant covers for the 4* heroes that they have already championed or really, 4* covers of older heroes.

    I honestly doubt that you were able to get 5 bonus 4* heroes by pulling a 40 pack considering the 1:14 odds of pulling a 4* in heroic packs, or 1:20 for the agent Coulson pack. Most of us don't really care about the bonus odds on 3*s.

    Also, no 40 packs for legendary tokens to get the improved 1:12 draw rate for bonus tokens.
  • n25philly
    n25philly Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker
    Cthulhu wrote:
    I understand what your saying. You guys would like a pack of 4 stars that are all older 4 star covers and a pack of new 4 star covers, but what I'm saying is you can select the exact 4 stars you want to focus on and when you get a bonus cover it will be the exact cover you have hearted. Now you can select the 4 stars you want to work on, and get them as bonus draw, so if your working to get covers for a few older 4 stars, just select those few older 4 stars.


    rng inside of rng. Can we add more layers of rng? I think I will be even happier if I have to go through tend layers of rng to get stuff. What you guys doesn't seem to get is that not everyone wants or is really in position to hyper focus on a single character. I don't have any iso to spend so it makes sense to spread things out until I do and cover numerous characters with covers to level later. If I favorite all the 4*'s I already have rostered to do that, the small rng change spreads out really fast.

    Also vaulting 3* just takes away champ rewards. Why do I have to depends on 1/22 of 5% to get covers to add champ levels? **** odds again. So this now just lowers the resources I have available to put together to roster and level characters. Oh right, this is to slow us down and take away those resources...

    Adding bonus heroes might have been done in conjunction with vaulting but doesn't explain why there is vaulting now matter how many lies and spun or how much you guys want to dance around the question
  • Nepenthe
    Nepenthe Posts: 283 Mover and Shaker
    Cthulhu wrote:
    It's both. You get the new covers mixed with any selected 4 stars that you would like to get.

    This is an attempt to allow you to choose what you want and have a better chance at getting what you want.

    I appreciate the attempt. I think I understand the problem it was trying to fix, and I even think it partially does fix it. But if it's all about giving us more choice and control, why not still have a choice to pull from the classics pool? When you made latest legends for 5*s, you kept a token type that had the older 5*s too. We have choices. The new favorite part is nice, but 95% of the time my choice doesn't matter.

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