New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

Uthgarprime

Now it will only get worse, we will get less and less old 4*'s because of dilution. after 6 months the old 4*'s are less in the vault, they will show up in event less often cause there are all those new characters. So after 6 months it will be even less of the old, eventually you will be down to 2 or 1 a year. And it will only get worse over time. See there is still a dilution problem they did nothing to address. Plus unless I want to spend hundreds on ISO I will probably struggle to champion or use the "new" 4*'s before they leave the vault, I have a 2/2/2 Kate Bishop, she will probably never be championed cause it will take 2 years to max cover her. About the same for the next 2 that leave the vault, when does that end? No matter how you slice it this does that address the dilution problem, it just pushes it off to another part of the game.

Nick441234

Cthulhu wrote:

Overall this is a way to fix how many characters were in the packs, pack dilution. Now, you have the latest characters and any number of bonus characters that you select to help determine your draw. My first pull, I was able to get 5 bonus covers of a character I hearted by opening a 40 pack. I know that's a lot of hero points for that particular pack. But the main thing is that now you select the covers that you want from all of the characters so it's more focused on what you need, rather then a huge number of all the characters you may or may not need.

Thank you all for the feedback, please continue to try it out and let me know what you think. I'll do my best to read more comments and answer any questions in this thread.

The issue with this though is that it brings championing to a standstill, particularly with 3*s. As someone who only raises my 4* levels as my 3*s catch them up through champion levels, my progress will stop drastically now. Its not realistic to add all the 3*s, who aren't in the packs, to my favourites list just so I can continue championing as it completely defeats the point of having favourites. So right now, only a small percentage of the 3*s will progress while the rest are completely left behind. How is this better?

Tony_Foot

After opening my CP due to a spot of boredom, I have decided if I continue to play to completely change focus from the 4* game. They can't have a 4* pvp because that will be unfair, they have closed that door to vaulted toons for a vast majority of the characters. It would take forever to do it.

So all my pulls now are for 5* with classics set as bonus heroes. It will be a long game but I'm going to try to skip the 4* game completely now unless by some miracle I can have a classic Top tier fall in my lap. I probably have better odds now of doing that pulling from classics than I do of finishing one of my 4* that have been vaulted. I will then just soft cap the 5* just under my best boosted 4 and hope for the best.

From 8 pulls I got 3x5* no bonus heroes but those odds are still better than finishing the list I had wanted in 4* Bobby, CyK, Thor, X23, Quake,4Pun, Starlord who were almost there but out of tokens.

n25philly

Task for the morning: Find a replacement game. Not an easy task as a large part of the draw is the marvel license, but I'm sure I'll find something

mr_X

Really not a fan of this only latest 4* change. Long term player and my 4*farm was starting to pay of with higher level champ rewards slowly helping to shore up my 5* roster. For a while effectively all 4*s have really done for me.

Guess there maybe is winners and losers in this but cant help feeling like my progress just got nerfed.

It would of been nice if they had left up to the player to heart this system or not.

likwid6

Probably the most frustrating thing for me are the number of older 4*s I was just getting close to champing.

Guess my 4/4/4 Deadpool & 4/4/4 Thor won't ever be champed unless: (a) I buy that last cover for 120 CP -or- (b) I get insanely lucky and pull them as a bonus token (haven't gotten a bonus in 8 pulls since Bonus release).

kyo28

Here's my take on the changes and I really hope Demiurge takes the time to read this:

Adding Bonus Heroes : 1 step forward! This helps us push % up for the character(s) we want to champion or keep building up
Limiting Latest Legendary Tokens to most recent 5-4*s : 1 step forward! This helps us build newer characters faster as we have a high rate pull for these covers
Removing older 4*s all together from Legendary Tokens : 7 steps backward! How are newer players with less mature rosters supposed to be able to champ older 4*s now?

Let's go over this last point. There are two options to build up older 4*s for newer players:

Option 1 : Using CP to get the missing covers. As long as you have 1 cover of each, you could potentially do that but that will turn out very costly in regards to CP spent: Imagine you have an older 4* at 2/1/2. That would mean you need 13-5= 8 covers. Now with one cover costing 120CP that means you're looking at 8x120=960 CP. That's just too expensive!

Option 2 : just keep pulling covers and favorite the older 4*s you want to champion. Some users say that this is actually the best course of action and increases your chances of championing your older 4*s as you get 5% chance of getting a bonus character. So short answer: we go from a 1.5% chance to 5% chance. That holds true if you only need to champion 1 older 4*. But younger rosters have multiple older 4*s to champion and thus need to favourite multiple older 4*s which will dilute the pull rate under 1.5%. Another way to get older 4*s is through vaults but those have very low yields (one chance in 80 for PVE event, one chance in 300 for Taco Tokens) and these instances will be further and farther between as more 4*s are introduced and thus the cycle will become longer. Finally, I can get 3 covers by championing 3*s but well, that's just 3 covers, right?

Now let's have a look at my roster, being a 440 day player, so neither new nor veteran, somewhere in between. Here are the older 4*s I really want to champion:
Antman : 5/4/4 > cover missing: 0
HulkBuster: 4/3/3 > cover missing: 3
Red Hulk : 2/5/2 > cover missing: 4
Professor X : 3/4/3 > cover missing: 3
Invisible Woman : 3/5/5 > cover missing: 0
Cyclops : 2/5/2 > cover missing: 4
Jean Grey : 2/2/1 > cover missing: 8
Iceman : 2/1/2 > cover missing: 8

---

Total covers needed : 30

So I need 30 covers that I can no longer get with LT pulls and using CP to get those covers would amount to an insane amount. Favoriting them all will dilute the pull rate to 5%/8= 0.625% which is far less than the 1.5% it used to be. Neither option 1 nor 2 is a viable option to me. And as you can see I still need a lot of covers for some of the top tier 4*s like Ice Man, Jean Grey and Cyclops and now I feel my progress is completely stifled. Yes, I can build newer characters like Riri faster but she is not nearly as useful as a Jean Grey or Iceman.

Serious question to Demiurge: Have you thought about this problem? Did you have transitioning rosters in mind when implementing this new feature? Or were you only thinking about mature rosters will all older 4*s champed?

Possible solutions I can think of:
1. Remove all new 4* covers from Classic Legendary Tokens and replace them with the older 4*s
2. Create multiple Legendary Token Packs. Keep newest as it is but create sub packs for the older 5-4*s with 3 5*s and 20 4*s per pack. That will give good pull rates for each type of cover and every player can choose for which character(s) he or she wants to go for.

I would prefer option 2 but could live with option 1 as well. But the system as it is now is completely broken for newer players, which from a business point of view is also not a good thing because you risk losing newer players because they feel they simply can't create decent 4*-5* rosters anymore.

I play daily, I paid money to buy HP, I paid money to get VIP status ... but if this system remains as it is, I will lose my drive to keep playing and won't spend money on the game anymore. It completely caters to longtime and whale type players and leaves the others hanging dry. The thing that bothers me the most is that Demiurge doesn't have any longterm planning it seems. It's always just mucking about, changing this and that. But really good game creators create a system that is long term viable and appeals both to longterm and new players alike ... This? This is just short term mucking about and I find it very poorly designed.

Warbringa

Ok...so frankly latest legends should be latest 5* and 12 latest 4* characters. Classic should be all other 5* and 4* characters. You are really hampering people's ability to complete older 4* characters. Many of my 4* nearer to completion are older characters and now I am put even further behind the 8 ball as they say since my chances to complete them have dropped even further. Don't give the bonus hero % line either as I will probably open more classic legends tokens than I receive bonus heroes. It doesn't replace the fact that I would like the ability to still go after older 4*s. Just give people the choice instead of removing it entirely. It is one of the things you usually mess up in this game with updates like this.

If you did this in order to make people buy from the stupid limited vaults in order to complete old 4* then you probably just lost me, a long-time player. My only sense of achievement in this game over the past 6 months has been that I am near completion on several older 4* and finally moving into the 4* meta and you just slowed me down....again. Just like you did when you decided to not allow cover buying with HP or introduce Shield intercepts which I can't even get......

broll

So far since its inception I've gotten a single bonus cover. It was a 5* from LTs. I have not received a single one form STs, ETs, HTs, or PvP packs. I don't buy 10 and 40 packs and getting a slightly better percent chance doesn't make me any more willing to buy them (which this seems to be the thing they really want out of the change). I'd be totally fine with everything if none of the characters were vaulted. There are tons of great suggestions on ways to make that happen: new packs, throw the old into classics, etc. Pick one. I won't pay a single cent into the game while characters remain vaulted.

carrion_pigeons

kyo28 wrote:

Here's my take on the changes and I really hope Demiurge takes the time to read this:

Adding Bonus Heroes : 1 step forward! This helps us push % up for the character(s) we want to champion or keep building up
Limiting Latest Legendary Tokens to most recent 5-4*s : 1 step forward! This helps us build newer characters faster as we have a high rate pull for these covers
Removing older 4*s all together from Legendary Tokens : 7 steps backward! How are newer players with less mature rosters supposed to be able to champ older 4*s now?

Let's go over this last point. There are two options to build up older 4*s for newer players:

Option 1 : Using CP to get the missing covers. As long as you have 1 cover of each, you could potentially do that but that will turn out very costly in regards to CP spent: Imagine you have an older 4* at 2/1/2. That would mean you need 13-5= 8 covers. Now with one cover costing 120CP that means you're looking at 8x120=960 CP. That's just too expensive!

Option 2 : just keep pulling covers and favorite the older 4*s you want to champion. Some users say that this is actually the best course of action and increases your chances of championing your older 4*s as you get 5% chance of getting a bonus character. So short answer: we go from a 1.5% chance to 5% chance. That holds true if you only need to champion 1 older 4*. But younger rosters have multiple older 4*s to champion and thus need to favourite multiple older 4*s which will dilute the pull rate under 1.5%. Another way to get older 4*s is through vaults but those have very low yields (one chance in 80 for PVE event, one chance in 300 for Taco Tokens) and these instances will be further and farther between as more 4*s are introduced and thus the cycle will become longer. Finally, I can get 3 covers by championing 3*s but well, that's just 3 covers, right?

Now let's have a look at my roster, being a 440 day player, so neither new nor veteran, somewhere in between. Here are the older 4*s I really want to champion:
Antman : 5/4/4 > cover missing: 0
HulkBuster: 4/3/3 > cover missing: 3
Red Hulk : 2/5/2 > cover missing: 4
Professor X : 3/4/3 > cover missing: 3
Invisible Woman : 3/5/5 > cover missing: 0
Cyclops : 2/5/2 > cover missing: 4
Jean Grey : 2/2/1 > cover missing: 8
Iceman : 2/1/2 > cover missing: 8

---

Total covers needed : 30

So I need 30 covers that I can no longer get with LT pulls and using CP to get those covers would amount to an insane amount. Favoriting them all will dilute the pull rate to 5%/8= 0.625% which is far less than the 1.5% it used to be. Neither option 1 nor 2 is a viable option to me. And as you can see I still need a lot of covers for some of the top tier 4*s like Ice Man, Jean Grey and Cyclops and now I feel my progress is completely stifled. Yes, I can build newer characters like Riri faster but she is not nearly as useful as a Jean Grey or Iceman.

Serious question to Demiurge: Have you thought about this problem? Did you have transitioning rosters in mind when implementing this new feature? Or were you only thinking about mature rosters will all older 4*s champed?

Possible solutions I can think of:
1. Remove all new 4* covers from Classic Legendary Tokens and replace them with the older 4*s
2. Create multiple Legendary Token Packs. Keep newest as it is but create sub packs for the older 5-4*s with 3 5*s and 20 4*s per pack. That will give good pull rates for each type of cover and every player can choose for which character(s) he or she wants to go for.

I would prefer option 2 but could live with option 1 as well. But the system as it is now is completely broken for newer players, which from a business point of view is also not a good thing because you risk losing newer players because they feel they simply can't create decent 4*-5* rosters anymore.

I play daily, I paid money to buy HP, I paid money to get VIP status ... but if this system remains as it is, I will lose my drive to keep playing and won't spend money on the game anymore. It completely caters to longtime and whale type players and leaves the others hanging dry. The thing that bothers me the most is that Demiurge doesn't have any longterm planning it seems. It's always just mucking about, changing this and that. But really good game creators create a system that is long term viable and appeals both to longterm and new players alike ... This? This is just short term mucking about and I find it very poorly designed.

I disagree.

In the long term is exactly where this change is good. You can say you want to champ all those characters so your pool is more dilute than before, but over the long term that won't stay true. You'll eventually pick up the covers you want (faster, even, and with more control than before, if you narrow down your choices to the ones you feel are highest priority and then, you know, just change your favorites after you've hit champ status), and then the character dilution won't be an issue anymore.

On the other hand, if they had kept going the way they were, then dilution was just going to get worse and worse for everyone. Long-term is exactly what the devs were thinking about, with this change.

n25philly

carrion pigeons wrote:

kyo28 wrote:

Here's my take on the changes and I really hope Demiurge takes the time to read this:

Adding Bonus Heroes : 1 step forward! This helps us push % up for the character(s) we want to champion or keep building up
Limiting Latest Legendary Tokens to most recent 5-4*s : 1 step forward! This helps us build newer characters faster as we have a high rate pull for these covers
Removing older 4*s all together from Legendary Tokens : 7 steps backward! How are newer players with less mature rosters supposed to be able to champ older 4*s now?

Let's go over this last point. There are two options to build up older 4*s for newer players:

Option 1 : Using CP to get the missing covers. As long as you have 1 cover of each, you could potentially do that but that will turn out very costly in regards to CP spent: Imagine you have an older 4* at 2/1/2. That would mean you need 13-5= 8 covers. Now with one cover costing 120CP that means you're looking at 8x120=960 CP. That's just too expensive!

Option 2 : just keep pulling covers and favorite the older 4*s you want to champion. Some users say that this is actually the best course of action and increases your chances of championing your older 4*s as you get 5% chance of getting a bonus character. So short answer: we go from a 1.5% chance to 5% chance. That holds true if you only need to champion 1 older 4*. But younger rosters have multiple older 4*s to champion and thus need to favourite multiple older 4*s which will dilute the pull rate under 1.5%. Another way to get older 4*s is through vaults but those have very low yields (one chance in 80 for PVE event, one chance in 300 for Taco Tokens) and these instances will be further and farther between as more 4*s are introduced and thus the cycle will become longer. Finally, I can get 3 covers by championing 3*s but well, that's just 3 covers, right?

Now let's have a look at my roster, being a 440 day player, so neither new nor veteran, somewhere in between. Here are the older 4*s I really want to champion:
Antman : 5/4/4 > cover missing: 0
HulkBuster: 4/3/3 > cover missing: 3
Red Hulk : 2/5/2 > cover missing: 4
Professor X : 3/4/3 > cover missing: 3
Invisible Woman : 3/5/5 > cover missing: 0
Cyclops : 2/5/2 > cover missing: 4
Jean Grey : 2/2/1 > cover missing: 8
Iceman : 2/1/2 > cover missing: 8

---

Total covers needed : 30

So I need 30 covers that I can no longer get with LT pulls and using CP to get those covers would amount to an insane amount. Favoriting them all will dilute the pull rate to 5%/8= 0.625% which is far less than the 1.5% it used to be. Neither option 1 nor 2 is a viable option to me. And as you can see I still need a lot of covers for some of the top tier 4*s like Ice Man, Jean Grey and Cyclops and now I feel my progress is completely stifled. Yes, I can build newer characters like Riri faster but she is not nearly as useful as a Jean Grey or Iceman.

Serious question to Demiurge: Have you thought about this problem? Did you have transitioning rosters in mind when implementing this new feature? Or were you only thinking about mature rosters will all older 4*s champed?

Possible solutions I can think of:
1. Remove all new 4* covers from Classic Legendary Tokens and replace them with the older 4*s
2. Create multiple Legendary Token Packs. Keep newest as it is but create sub packs for the older 5-4*s with 3 5*s and 20 4*s per pack. That will give good pull rates for each type of cover and every player can choose for which character(s) he or she wants to go for.

I would prefer option 2 but could live with option 1 as well. But the system as it is now is completely broken for newer players, which from a business point of view is also not a good thing because you risk losing newer players because they feel they simply can't create decent 4*-5* rosters anymore.

I play daily, I paid money to buy HP, I paid money to get VIP status ... but if this system remains as it is, I will lose my drive to keep playing and won't spend money on the game anymore. It completely caters to longtime and whale type players and leaves the others hanging dry. The thing that bothers me the most is that Demiurge doesn't have any longterm planning it seems. It's always just mucking about, changing this and that. But really good game creators create a system that is long term viable and appeals both to longterm and new players alike ... This? This is just short term mucking about and I find it very poorly designed.

I disagree.

In the long term is exactly where this change is good. You can say you want to champ all those characters so your pool is more dilute than before, but over the long term that won't stay true. You'll eventually pick up the covers you want (faster, even, and with more control than before, if you narrow down your choices to the ones you feel are highest priority and then, you know, just change your favorites after you've hit champ status), and then the character dilution won't be an issue anymore.

On the other hand, if they had kept going the way they were, then dilution was just going to get worse and worse for everyone. Long-term is exactly what the devs were thinking about, with this change.

How exactly would giving us a way to pull the vaulted characters from tokens stop us from getting what we want. The new system forces us to focus too much on the newest so there will never be resources to go back and work on those old characters, especially for those of us that dare not dedicate every waking moment of our live to playing this game. Forced new characters to create a forced treadmill that many can't keep up with, without throwing lots of money at, all with less free resources because they take many champ rewards away by taking away so many characters.

kyo28

carrion pigeons wrote:

I disagree.

In the long term is exactly where this change is good. You can say you want to champ all those characters so your pool is more dilute than before, but over the long term that won't stay true. You'll eventually pick up the covers you want (faster, even, and with more control than before, if you narrow down your choices to the ones you feel are highest priority and then, you know, just change your favorites after you've hit champ status), and then the character dilution won't be an issue anymore.

On the other hand, if they had kept going the way they were, then dilution was just going to get worse and worse for everyone. Long-term is exactly what the devs were thinking about, with this change.

I didn't say they needed to keep things as is, because rightfully so the packs were getting too crowded and diluting took place.

What I am saying is that reminding dilution by limiting players' choice is a poor design choice and not a very workable long-term solution.

Simply put, I think we can all agree that Iceman and Jean Grey are pretty high up the latter on the 4* power scaling. But now newer players are all but cut off from championing those and are forced to turn to 4*s like Riri, who can't hold a candle to those older 4*s. Where is long-term vision in that? Where is the fairness or balancing in that?

Taking away opportunities and choice from players is not a viable long-term solution.

Each is free to do as they want but I will from effective immediately not spend a single cent on this game as long as vaulting is in effect. There are plenty of ways to combat dilution without vaulting characters.

monsieurmojo

carrion pigeons wrote:

I disagree.

In the long term is exactly where this change is good. You can say you want to champ all those characters so your pool is more dilute than before, but over the long term that won't stay true. You'll eventually pick up the covers you want (faster, even, and with more control than before, if you narrow down your choices to the ones you feel are highest priority and then, you know, just change your favorites after you've hit champ status), and then the character dilution won't be an issue anymore.

On the other hand, if they had kept going the way they were, then dilution was just going to get worse and worse for everyone. Long-term is exactly what the devs were thinking about, with this change.

Yes, you can keep pulling your favorites until you get those favorites championed (ideally, championed +1, so you at *least* get *a* legendary token from the now-nerfed 4* champion rewards system). Then you're basically going to be stuck, for years, with a bunch of 271-279 4* champions. The champion reward system is *heavily* backloaded, and 4* champions get significantly better with more levels. The only subset of the player base this is better for in the long-term is whales. For everybody else, it's a big nerf to older 4* champions. Sure, you'll pick up more covers for one or two of your choice. The opportunity cost of losing those levels for every other 4* isn't worth the "upgrade."

n25philly

kyo28 wrote:

carrion pigeons wrote:

I disagree.

In the long term is exactly where this change is good. You can say you want to champ all those characters so your pool is more dilute than before, but over the long term that won't stay true. You'll eventually pick up the covers you want (faster, even, and with more control than before, if you narrow down your choices to the ones you feel are highest priority and then, you know, just change your favorites after you've hit champ status), and then the character dilution won't be an issue anymore.

On the other hand, if they had kept going the way they were, then dilution was just going to get worse and worse for everyone. Long-term is exactly what the devs were thinking about, with this change.

I didn't say they needed to keep things as is, because rightfully so the packs were getting too crowded and diluting took place.

What I am saying is that reminding dilution by limiting players' choice is a poor design choice and not a very workable long-term solution.

Simply put, I think we can all agree that Iceman and Jean Grey are pretty high up the latter on the 4* power scaling. But now newer players are all but cut off from championing those and are forced to turn to 4*s like Riri, who can't hold a candle to those older 4*s. Where is long-term vision in that? Where is the fairness or balancing in that?

Taking away opportunities and choice from players is not a viable long-term solution.

Each is free to do as they want but I will from effective immediately not spend a single cent on this game as long as vaulting is in effect. There are plenty of ways to combat dilution without vaulting characters.

But, but, taking characters away adds choices, because, uh, reasons.

I mean yeah, you could favorite JG and iceman if you want them and you get a 2.5% chance to get a cover, well, that is if the rng inside of the rng likes you. You know because when someone defends it if gives out a bonus cover exactly 5% of the time, when it reality it's a crapshoot that could largely give you nothing like it has for a lot of people. But that is ok because we all no everyone says "I wish there was more rng!"

But since we have to assume it will give 5% of the time every time that means you will get 5 covers if you only draw 100 tokens! We're rolling in covers now!!!!! Of course now you have 100 covers for 12 characters, and we all know that the wonderful rng of the game won't give us any unusable covers out of that. Of course if you don't have those 12 characters rostered the magic HP fairy (aka your wallet) will be sure to help you out, because you know rng in rng is helpful for getting those champ rewards you need to get the resources to roster them....

WAIT! I know, lets sell JG and Iceman so we have roster spots available for those 12 characters because they are very special because there are, uh, uh, new? I don't know they must be special or why would they be the only ones available to us? Oh wait I'd better spend all of my iso on those two as they will no longer be special in a week, and better get them leveled and champed while they are special so after they no longer are I can no longer get any more champ levels for them because they are like all old now and why would we want to get rewards from something that is old. Old stuff is gross!

So now I have no HP, no ISO, but I've got a whole whopping 5 covers for JG and Iceman! Score!!!! I'd better go pull 2100 more legendary tokens so I can get the rest of the covers I would need to full cover them. Of course then I'll have 2100 covers spread over 12 characters, no hp, no iso and two new characters that I have tons of covers for that I can't roster. What other characters should I get rid of?! Wow, this is fun!!!!

Oh, right, we are not supposed to look at the reality of it and just blindly say how wonder this is because of, uh, reasons?

bluewolf

I had an analogy I thought of for the devs to consider. It seems evident that they do not play the game like forumites/highly engaged players. I do not expect them to: I assume they can play with fully levelled characters in a god mode whenever they want. Why spend time and money trying to build up to what they can just play around with?

Anyway, there is a series of articles by the CEO of Demiurge where he envisions MPQ like Netflix, offering new content that brings people back (and paying for it, of course) in a subscription-like model - which now exists somewhat with VIP.

So, Netflix has constantly cycling content - stuff leaves, stuff is added etc. The vaulting idea is kind of like this. (Netflix-produced/paid for does not leave, though.) If you have Netflix, I'm sure you have a queue. Maybe some Marvel shows are in there. You may be in the middle of a show right now.

Now, devs. Imagine you are into a show that you enjoy thoroughly (let's say Daredevil). You are looking forward to, this weekend, watching some more episodes. You avoid spoilers like crazy. Etc. Then you check your email during lunch. Netflix announces in an email: Starting today, all Marvel shows will not be available to watch by users, except at a random time, when you will get to watch an episode instead of a different show you selected. Approximately one of every 20 times.

But! I planned to watch Daredevil! Then Jessica Jones! Why can't I watch it when I want to? WHY DIDN'T I GET A LITTLE MORE WARNING???

This analogy is not perfect, but close. The RNG nature of the game makes true planning hard. I might argue that life makes watching your favorite shows hard sometimes too. Just food for thought and perspective about how this was rolled out.

Ludaa

I think highly champed old 4*s were overshadowing new releases. You can see just in this thread how many times Ice and Jean are mentioned. This change all but forces you to forget about them and look to the new one$ even if they stink. They didn't seem to think the last 1-2 years of work being vaulted would upset anyone, ha!

I'm "fortunate" enough to have 35 champed 4*s, so I'll live through this. The thing that stings for myself is they've cut off the road to high level champ rewards. Those are a huge boon to our resources.

The cover stores clearly have room for more buttons, put the old ones back in next to the new ones. Heck, disable the bonus heroes for the reverted packs if you must.

n25philly

By the way, since you guys are selling this new system as one of choice do you think that at any point you guys are going to comment on all of the negative choices you are forcing on us? For example, to progress in this new system I have to do one of the following:

1) be FORCED in to hording for the next year or more to be able to roster the new characters being FORCED on us and not being able to open tokens because there are too many new characters that are FORCED on us that I can't afford to roster?

2) be FORCED to sell numerous characters that I already have in my roster and don't want to lose, so I can roster these new characters that are being FORCED on us?

3) Pull tokens now but be FORCED to let lots and lots of covers rot because I have no way of rostering all these new characters that are being FORCED on us so most covers will be a waste (although maybe if the rng in the rng is kind I will get a cover or two that I want. A cover of two out of the probably hundreds I actually need, SCORE!)

4) be FORCED to constantly throw money at the game because the only way to progress is to purchase resources with real money because I am FORCED to concentrate on new characters that are FORCED on me and are FORCED to pull their covers to get the ones I actually want.

5) Throw my arms up in the air because this new system FORCES every last bit of fun out of this game by FORCING me to make bad and unfun choices and stop playing at all and take my time and money elsewhere (he choice I will take if you guys don't fix this disaster)

Is it just me or do all these choices I have due to your new system of choice involve FORCING a lot of bad decision and unfriendly game mechanics on me? Again, how is this not ruining the game and making it better again?

Crowl

Ludaa wrote:

I think highly champed old 4*s were overshadowing new releases. You can see just in this thread how many times Ice and Jean are mentioned. This change all but forces you to forget about them and look to the new one$ even if they stink. They didn't seem to think the last 1-2 years of work being vaulted would upset anyone, ha!

I'm "fortunate" enough to have 35 champed 4*s, so I'll live through this. The thing that stings for myself is they've cut off the road to high level champ rewards. Those are a huge boon to our resources.

The cover stores clearly have room for more buttons, put the old ones back in next to the new ones. Heck, disable the bonus heroes for the reverted packs if you must.

They needed to find mechanisms to speed up the rate at which new characters would become useful, but there are better ways than practically killing all progress on the existing characters, this vaulting could be applied to all other tokens than LTs, people would still have a regular influx of existing characters and the rate at which you gained the new ones would also be somewhat increased, another option would be to split existing characters into two groups (like they did with 3*s) and rotate one of those groups in and out alongside the latest 12.

As far as people mentioning Iceman and JG, they are just some of the many top tier characters that have been mentioned in the thread, but maybe they are particularly being mentioned as very good aoe is not a particular strength of the latest 12 as they have tended to go for more convoluted mechanisms to keep things fresh, but unfortunately if you want to be competitive in pve or pvp then you need speed from the characters you are using.

Vhailorx

carrion pigeons wrote:

kyo28 wrote:

--snip--

I disagree.

In the long term is exactly where this change is good. You can say you want to champ all those characters so your pool is more dilute than before, but over the long term that won't stay true. You'll eventually pick up the covers you want (faster, even, and with more control than before, if you narrow down your choices to the ones you feel are highest priority and then, you know, just change your favorites after you've hit champ status), and then the character dilution won't be an issue anymore.

On the other hand, if they had kept going the way they were, then dilution was just going to get worse and worse for everyone. Long-term is exactly what the devs were thinking about, with this change.

C'mon Carrion, do the math.

Kyo listed 8 classic 4*s that he/she wants to champ. At a 5% rate how is kyo ever supposed to cover them all before new and desirable 4*s fall out of the latest 12 and start adding to that list? Even if kyo narrows the favorite pool down to 2 4*s, it might still take 80+ LT pulls to get enough covers to champ those favorites. That's 80 covers for the newest 12 4*s just to finish 2 classics. So Kyo really needs enough iso to level and champ the newest 12, PLUS iso to champ her one or two favorites. And then kyo would need another 80 LTs to champ 2 more of his or her favorites.

And of course, just champing those characters may not be enough, what if Kyo wants them to hit 300 or 330 (where 4* champs really start to take off in terms of health and power damage)?

Yes it's nice to have control over a small 5% portion of our pulls. But almost 75% of the 4* tier has just been shoved into that 5%. It's pretty crowded in there; and it's only going to get worse.

Crowl

Vhailorx wrote:

Yes it's nice to have control over a small 5% portion of our pulls. But almost 75% of the 4* tier has just been shoved into that 5%. It's pretty crowded in there; and it's only going to get worse.

This is the essence of the problem, in isolation the bonus heroes part of these changes is a great step towards letting us focus a bit more on those we want the most, but vaulting simply goes way too far from what many now want after more than a year of the champion system.