New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

Magic

Coubii wrote:

Magic wrote:

Coubii wrote:

As I've suggested in an other topic, why not allowing users to select which twelve 4* we want to see in the legendary pack ? It would solve both dilution and the possibility to champion old characters. Every body would be able to pull only what they want. You have already 5 in one color, here again, don't take the chance to pull a 6th, just remove that character from your list.

This is very naive thinking. Try to look at this from the other side - what is the gain for the developers? Where is the money coming from if every player can quickly cover all the top characters? Never going to happen. And frankly it would be a horrible solution for the players as well - constant fight against equally strong opponents would increase the drop rate.

The ultimate solution to this crisis is simple - revers the vaulting and keep the bonus heros. Player base would be above happy with it. Devs would not see much of a drop (rather increase with the better rates for 10 and 40 packs).

I don't agree with your view. There are plenty of solutions to make it more fun and diversified (and defacto money coming).
Make non top characters feature more often to diversify. Modify too weak characters to even the competition. Create different gameplay (like Kealicius boss mission) to make relevant some current niche characters.

The burrito mission could be exactly one example. Outside of DDQ, I no longer use 2* characters. It's a bit sad, they were my best friends for almost 2 years and when I finally ended my 3* transition: I no longer use them, cause they are not relevant anymore. Dev could propose special events with feature character where you could use any variant. (example: any black widow from any level). There is much more to do to develop money income, but I digress.

Personally, I like the idea to have a smaller vault. It will greatly help me to cover my heores which are barely almost with 2 covers. That's a shame however that currently I have no more hope to fully cover an old legend... My suggestion was proposing the best of the 2 worlds.

I'm afraid it was not proposing the best of 2 worlds. It was proposing that players can cover the best ones and the weak ones would not be on the lists ever. That is something the devs can't accept. And please don't make me try to believe that you would target Wasp over Iceman or Cyclops in a short list vault just because there might be an event that uses her. Not going to happen and I don't believe you would do that.

Giving a players an option to select 12 toons we are looking at the following: Carol, Peggy, Medusa (from the current golden 12), Iceman, Hulkbuster, Jean, Punisher Max, Cyclops, Red Hulk, Deadpool, Thorress and probably Nova. Some players would plug in the recent editions in (say Coulson over Nova). Some might do that for some older ones when they have already some champions levels. But regardless - the majority would have that list. And it would lead nowhere.

Developers are free to introduce more events at any time. We are begging for that for over 2 years. What we get is an odd event here and there and a new hero every two weeks.

Straycat

I'm confused on their 5% figure. They only give the figures for heroic tokens. They say there is a 17% chance of getting a bonus if you draw a 3 or 4 from a heroic token. So what is the chance of bonuses from legendaries? Is it still 5%?

DesertTortoise

Straycat wrote:

I'm confused on their 5% figure. They only give the figures for heroic tokens. They say there is a 17% chance of getting a bonus if you draw a 3 or 4 from a heroic token. So what is the chance of bonuses from legendaries? Is it still 5%?

Correct. Legendaries are 5% flat because every draw in it is eligible for a bonus hero draw. Heroics offer you a 5% chance to draw a bonus hero, but since the majority of a heroic token isn't eligible for a bonus hero (2-stars) the 3-stars and 4-stars that you end up drawing have a higher percentage chance of being a bonus hero when drawn.

Crnch73

are people still getting bonus heroes at a reasonable pace? I have gotten a total of 2 bonus heroes since the launch, with well over 200 token pulls. I had stockpiled a lot of CP and tokens, so I went on a splurge. Starting on Thursday of last week I began keeping track of token pulls and bonus heroes. If you don't include data from the first two days, clearly I am at 0% bonus heroes (though with increased 5's from LT's). Overall, if you include data from the first 2 days, overall I have had a total of 68 token pulls that were eligible for a bonus hero, meaning the token resulted in a 3 star or higher. Of those 68, only 2 became bonus heroes. That translates to just under 3% return rate.

even if you say "the difference between 3% and 5% is negligible, this is working as intended"... that still tells me that bonus heroes don't happen often enough... period. 1 out of every 20 pulls is not enough to try to get any vaulted covers. Most people don't get high enough placement in events to earn 4* covers, and people like me have a hard time getting to 900 in PVP. So in reality, the only time I can get vaulted 4's is through PVE progression. So... once a year, I get a specific 4* cover, and I pray that it's a color I can use! yippee! goodbye to the old 4's, goodbye to champion levels. Oddsmakers, I know you want to say this is RNG, but it is really just a screw job. Vegas wasn't built on winners, right?

GurlBYE

The percentage should be increased healthily or the vaulting system removed.

Can't have both in their current forms to be fair.

broll

Crnch73 wrote:

are people still getting bonus heroes at a reasonable pace? I have gotten a total of 2 bonus heroes since the launch, with well over 200 token pulls. I had stockpiled a lot of CP and tokens, so I went on a splurge. Starting on Thursday of last week I began keeping track of token pulls and bonus heroes. If you don't include data from the first two days, clearly I am at 0% bonus heroes (though with increased 5's from LT's). Overall, if you include data from the first 2 days, overall I have had a total of 68 token pulls that were eligible for a bonus hero, meaning the token resulted in a 3 star or higher. Of those 68, only 2 became bonus heroes. That translates to just under 3% return rate.

even if you say "the difference between 3% and 5% is negligible, this is working as intended"... that still tells me that bonus heroes don't happen often enough... period. 1 out of every 20 pulls is not enough to try to get any vaulted covers. Most people don't get high enough placement in events to earn 4* covers, and people like me have a hard time getting to 900 in PVP. So in reality, the only time I can get vaulted 4's is through PVE progression. So... once a year, I get a specific 4* cover, and I pray that it's a color I can use! yippee! goodbye to the old 4's, goodbye to champion levels. Oddsmakers, I know you want to say this is RNG, but it is really just a screw job. Vegas wasn't built on winners, right?

My pull rate was sub 3% also. 2:70
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60544

broll

GurlBYE wrote:

The percentage should be increased healthily or the vaulting system removed.

Can't have both in their current forms to be fair.

I'm honestly fine with the percentage. IMO one of two things need change:
1. Remove the vaulting.
or
2. Make favorite tagging be by cover color. So people can actually cover a 5/5/0.

I'd rather #1 and #1 would required less development time, but I think either would mostly fix the system. Even with #2 old 4* progression would be much slower, but there would be a trade off in 0 duplicate covers.

Jaedenkaal

broll wrote:

Crnch73 wrote:

are people still getting bonus heroes at a reasonable pace? I have gotten a total of 2 bonus heroes since the launch, with well over 200 token pulls. I had stockpiled a lot of CP and tokens, so I went on a splurge. Starting on Thursday of last week I began keeping track of token pulls and bonus heroes. If you don't include data from the first two days, clearly I am at 0% bonus heroes (though with increased 5's from LT's). Overall, if you include data from the first 2 days, overall I have had a total of 68 token pulls that were eligible for a bonus hero, meaning the token resulted in a 3 star or higher. Of those 68, only 2 became bonus heroes. That translates to just under 3% return rate.

even if you say "the difference between 3% and 5% is negligible, this is working as intended"... that still tells me that bonus heroes don't happen often enough... period. 1 out of every 20 pulls is not enough to try to get any vaulted covers. Most people don't get high enough placement in events to earn 4* covers, and people like me have a hard time getting to 900 in PVP. So in reality, the only time I can get vaulted 4's is through PVE progression. So... once a year, I get a specific 4* cover, and I pray that it's a color I can use! yippee! goodbye to the old 4's, goodbye to champion levels. Oddsmakers, I know you want to say this is RNG, but it is really just a screw job. Vegas wasn't built on winners, right?

My pull rate was sub 3% also. 2:70
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60544

Hmm, I've gotten 3x 3* Thor, 1x 4* Thor, and 1x 5* Strange, out of what I can only assume is fewer than 70 pulls. Not really that surprising that our results could vary by that much since 5% is a pretty small percentage; any variance is likely to look like a pretty large deviation from the "expected" result.

Rick_OShay

Read 99% of all posts, finally dropping in a comment.

Agreed with the consensus, the Bonus Heroes 5% idea is great on it's own. Vaulting this many of the older characters is very difficult to accept.

Upvoting the concept to keep the blessed 12 in Latest Legends tokens, and all others into the Classic Legends tokens.

By the way, the Legendary Token overall pull rate is unchanged at 15% for 5*'s. Representing it now at ~1:7 displays better than, but truly equates to: 1/6.66667. I would have preferred to keep the percentage display.
It is NOT reduced to: "14.25% + the difference of the bonus-expected 0.75%".
It IS: "15% for a 5* draw PLUS a 5% chance of a bonus 5*".


For the 1% I didn't read, it quickly became apparent a couple of posters are a bit irrational, and their comments should be avoided. So, thanks for the time savings!

Cthulhu

We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

whycantwesyncpc

LOL, sent a question into support playing dumb and asking why so many characters are missing from tokens. Practically received and essay explaining how the bonuses work in great details. Not a single word about the vaulting and why there characters are no longer in the tokens. Yeah, nothing fishy about this...

whycantwesyncpc

Cthulhu wrote:

We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

I don't think anyone needs anything done immediately, but changes are needed. I can't speak for everyone, but know what those changes will be would be good even if it takes a little time to implement as no one wants something rushed that just causes more problems.

Dayv

zulux21 wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

It's a bad move. If they don't walk this back in the next couple of days, I'm probably done. I wish I hadn't renewed VIP this morning.

I suppose I am not seeing why this is a bad move.

previously, I spent 20cp. I had a what 1 in 42 chance of getting the character I wanted. (not including 5 stars)
now, I spend 20CP, I have a 1 in 20 chance of getting the character I want and will also get one of the 12 newest characters.

alternatively if we look at the chance for 5 stars we went from a what 1 in 70 chance of getting a random cover for a character we want to that plus a second chance to?

I mean what am I missing?
the odds to trigger a bonus hero are higher than the previous odds to get any given hero so this just seems to give you newer heroes and a higher chance of getting the heroes you want.

Your example implies there's only one character you want. Not counting Devil Dinosaur, I have 25 4* champs, and the rewards for them have been slowly improving as I collect more covers. There isn't just one 4* character I want, there's twenty-five 4* champs I want covers for and usually about 2 to 4 more characters I'm still working to fully cover. Over time, I was increasing that number further.

I don't recall the exact percentage 4* characters were at in Legendary Tokens before this change, but it was about 2% each. Let's be conservative and say there were 27 characters in the pool I actively wanted covers for. That means that just for 4* I had a 54% chance of of a useful cover. Add in any 5* rewards I can use and that's about another 14% to allow for occasional wasted covers on powers already at 5. Very roughly, I had about a 68% chance of any given Legendary Token being a benefit to me.

Now, I have three champs in the pool and two characters not yet at 13 covers. That's 14% for 5* still, about 21% for champs, and 14% for characters not yet covered. With the stroke of a pen, my usable reward rate dropped to 49%.

But wait, it gets worse! Already I've filled in my missing Ironheart covers and an extra one to move her to her desired build. I don't have the ISO to champ her, so in less than a week since the change, my usable rewards have dropped to 42%.

Now how much would you pay?

Wait, it gets worse still! In a matter of days, two of my three eligible champs will exit the tokens to be replaced by Coulson and Mordo. And Captain Marvel isn't far from 13 covers either. When those two champs fall out of the tokens, my odds won't immediately changes, but very soon I'll have Coulson, Mordo, and Captain Marvel all at 13 covers and I'll have just one champ left in the current pool, bringing my usable cover rate from 68% down to 21% in just weeks.

Sure, I can work to bring it back up again by champing characters still in the pool, preferably recent additions, but they will all suddenly stop paying off and everyone in the dust-covered pile of Misfit Toys will slow to a crawl waiting for covers from the few other sources that remain after LTs are cut off for them.

On top of that, a rational use of ISO above the 3* pool is now constrained to only 12 recent releases (the latest four to be really safe) and any 5* characters you pull.

Act now! Offer expires while you wait!

madok

Cthulhu wrote:

Overall this is a way to fix how many characters were in the packs, pack dilution. Now, you have the latest characters and any number of bonus characters that you select to help determine your draw. My first pull, I was able to get 5 bonus covers of a character I hearted by opening a 40 pack. I know that's a lot of hero points for that particular pack. But the main thing is that now you select the covers that you want from all of the characters so it's more focused on what you need, rather then a huge number of all the characters you may or may not need.

Thank you all for the feedback, please continue to try it out and let me know what you think. I'll do my best to read more comments and answer any questions in this thread.

My emphasis added above.

Just wanted to reiterate what has already been stated by a few folks. You aren't giving me the cover I want. You are giving me a small chance of getting the cover I need for the character that I selected. If that is for a 5/x/5 character, I don't even want to know that odds of getting the correct bonus result I need.

I've already received an unusable bonus cover for 4* Danvers because I was lucky and kept getting green covers for her. That was an bonus punch in the gut.

pheregas

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Cthulhu wrote:

We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

I don't think anyone needs anything done immediately, but changes are needed. I can't speak for everyone, but know what those changes will be would be good even if it takes a little time to implement as no one wants something rushed that just causes more problems.

What he said! ^^^

The vaulting system being dropped on us really threw us for a loop. I was sitting on two Hood covers (at level 182), which combined with a second Ghost Rider cover in inventory made him priority champ target.

A few days later, I have enough ISO to do it, but I think I'll just be selling those covers in favor of the Elite 12 (but also means savings more iso as all my previous cover maxed were all up to 100-120). If that sort of priority shift happens again, having as much info ahead of time would be wonderful!

Killians8

Like many of you I've read all or nearly all the pages in this topic. It appears the D3 team is at least acknowledging some kind of adjustment needs to be made here based on the size of the response. I am thankful for all of you who did speak up and more so for those who did in a respectful manner.

This game is not free to make so it's understandable if they feel many changes need to be made based on monetary need, but it seems they understand if you have no customers, there will be no money to gain.

Roster: https://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/Killians/

I myself was in a transition from 3* to 4* and just starting to build a 4* roster with very few having more than 4 covers. So this change crushed my ability to grow those older characters. I had been hoarding before this change out of necessity in this stage and chose to spend my hoard and replace some unfavorable or lower covered characters in place of a new Medusa with all three covers, several new covers for my Carol Danvers, a new Luke Cage with four covers, one cover Peggy, and Agent Venom (one of each cover and bleh). I kept many old favorites who have fewer than 4 covers such as Iceman, Jean Grey, Lady Thor, Big Pun, Starlord, and X23. I'm hoping there is some way any adjustments they make will allow me to make some progress with the more elite old characters as well as continue back to just rostering them all and building them like I did with the 3* tier. I won't miss Elektra, Nick Fury, or Thing who had 2 covers each.

My main message is we will need to be patient. As Cthulu said they don't want to break anything as they code the changes. Too fast means a lot more problems with the game. They are listening and responding on the boards so that is a positive thing.

See ya'll on the playfield.

Felonius

Cthulhu wrote:

We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

Cthulhu,
I appreciate you guys (and gals?) looking at this seriously and taking action to fix the problem. I look forward to hearing of your resolution as soon as you can share the details. Thank you.

kyo28

Cthulhu wrote:

We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

Thank you. I really appreciate you guys taking our feedback into consideration. Of course, no one is asking you guys to rush anything and break the whole system, but as long as you guys are actively looking into this, that's all we can ask. Personally I still have about 26 days left on my VIP subscription so if a solution is out by then, I'll renew VIP. If not I'll skip and reactivate the moment a solution is in place.
But really, appreciate that you take this seriously!

Quick Fire

Cthulhu wrote:

We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

Thank you for this post. It is very much appreciated. After seeing your activity in this thread on Friday, it is great to see today's follow up. Thank you for considering the community's feedback.

Alsmir

Maybe next time give us a heads up before implementing game-changing mechanics?