New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

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Comments

  • firethorne
    firethorne Posts: 1,505 Chairperson of the Boards
    whycantwesyncpc wrote:
    Cthulhu wrote:
    We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!


    I don't think anyone needs anything done immediately, but changes are needed. I can't speak for everyone, but know what those changes will be would be good even if it takes a little time to implement as no one wants something rushed that just causes more problems.

    Yes. If you have something that is only marginally less janky, and you can hammer out in a week, versus a much more healthy solution that would take a few months to figure out, by all means, take your time. It would be better to take your time and really think everything though thoroughly instead of throwing something out that seems half-baked. That's why you're in this situation in the first place.

    I think the big priority in this thread is letting you know reducing the rate of old character acquisition to one out of 20 draws is completely unacceptable to many players, and trying to get some sort of understanding on why you didn't think it was a problem.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Cthulhu wrote:
    We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

    We appreciate you showing flexibility on this system. I hope you guys come to a good conclusion for a fix.
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    That's good news.

    Don't be afraid to use as a huge free focus group, that are not only free but will give you money if we like your ideas. icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • aa25
    aa25 Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    Cthulhu wrote:
    We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

    Thank you so much for listening to our feedbacks and looking into this. If possible, please announce the change before it goes live.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,014 Chairperson of the Boards
    Cthulhu wrote:
    We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

    First of all, thank you for taking our feedback into consideration. I have laid out many of the players' concerns in an organized way in this thread:

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60457

    hopefully it can be helpful to you and the developers.

    We the players have been discussing solutions all weekend and the one that seems to be getting the most universal praise, and that will help solve the problem you were trying to address (dilution) without impacting your bottom line (financially speaking) is to add the older vaulted legends to the classic packs and leave the newest in the latest packs. This will allow those who complain of dilution and want to catch up faster a route to do so by buying latest packs that have a smaller pool to draw from. Those who don't mind dilution and want to work on covering older characters can do so with the classic packs. Both customers can utilize the very occasional bonus heroes (universally loved without the vaulting, by the way) to fill in the gaps.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 wrote:
    We the players have been discussing solutions all weekend and the one that seems to be getting the most universal praise, and that will help solve the problem you were trying to address (dilution) without impacting your bottom line (financially speaking) is to add the older vaulted legends to the classic packs and leave the newest in the latest packs. This will allow those who complain of dilution and want to catch up faster a route to do so by buying latest packs that have a smaller pool to draw from. Those who don't mind dilution and want to work on covering older characters can do so with the classic packs. Both customers can utilize the very occasional bonus heroes (universally loved without the vaulting, by the way) to fill in the gaps.

    If they do this, be prepared for Classics to cost 25 CP as well.

    I'm not arguing that they should, I'm just saying. The argument in favour of this solution is that the older characters are at least as valuable to us as the new ones, so I'd get ready to pay as much for them.
  • Pinko_McFly
    Pinko_McFly Posts: 282 Mover and Shaker
    Say this latest 12 in both legendaries is a sticking point that you (d3) cannot get by, then how about the following:
    In all PvE events, have 3 covers of the featured 4* in the vault.
    In all PvP events, have the 4* in the token only include the 4* that is awarded at 900 points.

    Leave Heroics as the 12 and for a new character PvE or PvP event, just use the 12 with the razor thin chance of getting the new 4* that you have always had.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,014 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jaedenkaal wrote:
    Daredevil217 wrote:
    We the players have been discussing solutions all weekend and the one that seems to be getting the most universal praise, and that will help solve the problem you were trying to address (dilution) without impacting your bottom line (financially speaking) is to add the older vaulted legends to the classic packs and leave the newest in the latest packs. This will allow those who complain of dilution and want to catch up faster a route to do so by buying latest packs that have a smaller pool to draw from. Those who don't mind dilution and want to work on covering older characters can do so with the classic packs. Both customers can utilize the very occasional bonus heroes (universally loved without the vaulting, by the way) to fill in the gaps.

    If they do this, be prepared for Classics to cost 25 CP as well.

    I'm not arguing that they should, I'm just saying. The argument in favour of this solution is that the older characters are at least as valuable to us as the new ones, so I'd get ready to pay as much for them.

    I think it's possible. Or, maybe they will recognize that even if they are not JUST as valuable as the latest, they are a heck of a lot more valuable to us than to be locked out of tokens altogether. There's probably a lot of room to operate between those two extremes (being seen as completely equal and being locked out altogether). So with that in mind 20 CP classics with all (or all but 12) 4* seems fair, especially if the developers see pulling from a smaller pool as advantageous (basically the extra 5 CP is the cost to "fast-track" your progress and sidestep dilution).
  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 wrote:
    We the players have been discussing solutions all weekend and the one that seems to be getting the most universal praise, and that will help solve the problem you were trying to address (dilution) without impacting your bottom line (financially speaking) is to add the older vaulted legends to the classic packs and leave the newest in the latest packs.
    This also has the added benefit for both developers and players of probablyt being the single easiest fix to put in. If they decided it was the right answer, or even the right answer for a few months while hashing out other ideas, they could probably implement it in just days or even mere hours.
  • whycantwesyncpc
    whycantwesyncpc Posts: 188 Tile Toppler
    DayvBang wrote:
    Daredevil217 wrote:
    We the players have been discussing solutions all weekend and the one that seems to be getting the most universal praise, and that will help solve the problem you were trying to address (dilution) without impacting your bottom line (financially speaking) is to add the older vaulted legends to the classic packs and leave the newest in the latest packs.
    This also has the added benefit for both developers and players of probablyt being the single easiest fix to put in. If they decided it was the right answer, or even the right answer for a few months while hashing out other ideas, they could probably implement it in just days or even mere hours.


    I'd be happy with just an announcement of plans no matter how short or long it takes to implement. As of this morning I am boycotting the game until it's changed. An announcement that fixes the problem and I'll stick it out and just horde until the fix actually happens. I hope they bring back the full pool of 3*'s as well and 4*'s though.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,014 Chairperson of the Boards
    DayvBang wrote:
    Daredevil217 wrote:
    We the players have been discussing solutions all weekend and the one that seems to be getting the most universal praise, and that will help solve the problem you were trying to address (dilution) without impacting your bottom line (financially speaking) is to add the older vaulted legends to the classic packs and leave the newest in the latest packs.
    This also has the added benefit for both developers and players of probablyt being the single easiest fix to put in. If they decided it was the right answer, or even the right answer for a few months while hashing out other ideas, they could probably implement it in just days or even mere hours.

    Right. If the developers have been following this or any of the other threads on this topic they'd know this has been the most heavily agreed upon solution. My advice if you want to influence change is to speak with your wallets. While they are "taking their time figuring things out" best believe they are beta-testing this and tracking sales, activity, etc. under this new system. I'm free to play so sadly do not impact their bottom line aside from the occasional ad they toss my way. Still, I will be hoarding all my CP that I earn until a decision has been made.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Cthulhu wrote:
    We just had our initial conversation after the weekend and are discussing what to do next, please bear with us as we move as fast as we can without breaking anything!

    Thanks cthulhu, communication is alaays appreciated.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 wrote:
    DayvBang wrote:
    Daredevil217 wrote:
    We the players have been discussing solutions all weekend and the one that seems to be getting the most universal praise, and that will help solve the problem you were trying to address (dilution) without impacting your bottom line (financially speaking) is to add the older vaulted legends to the classic packs and leave the newest in the latest packs.
    This also has the added benefit for both developers and players of probablyt being the single easiest fix to put in. If they decided it was the right answer, or even the right answer for a few months while hashing out other ideas, they could probably implement it in just days or even mere hours.

    Right. If the developers have been following this or any of the other threads on this topic they'd know this has been the most heavily agreed upon solution. My advice if you want to influence change is to speak with your wallets. While they are "taking their time figuring things out" best believe they are beta-testing this and tracking sales, activity, etc. under this new system. I'm free to play so sadly do not impact their bottom line aside from the occasional ad they toss my way. Still, I will be hoarding all my CP that I earn until a decision has been made.

    Hopefully they've also noticed that even just the bonus heroes feature itself is much more complicated for players to grasp than I suspect they realized, and that tying it in with the vaulting decision made it even more complicated.
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    @cthulu and @Brigby who is lurking at the forum while I write this.

    Please make sure that the development team doesn't rush into any decisions. I hope they will focus on multiple angles while trying to sort out this storm.

    There are many solutions to the problem. One quick one (and a lot of players would applaud) is to revert the vaulting but keep the bonus hero.

    Others? Limit the latest legends to 12 4* covers. Increase the bonus hero probability (100% on 4* pulls from heroics and event tokens where the probability is minuscule already; 25% on legendary pulls and 5% for extra 5* from legendary. For 3* - 10 to 25%). Colorless covers. Targeted color cover. And many more suggested around.

    We are clearly carrot people in the forum so don't overuse the stick. (just check the reception of Coulsdon Pve that took most developed players under 10 minutes and yet they are happy with it).
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jaedenkaal wrote:
    Daredevil217 wrote:
    DayvBang wrote:
    Daredevil217 wrote:
    We the players have been discussing solutions all weekend and the one that seems to be getting the most universal praise, and that will help solve the problem you were trying to address (dilution) without impacting your bottom line (financially speaking) is to add the older vaulted legends to the classic packs and leave the newest in the latest packs.
    This also has the added benefit for both developers and players of probablyt being the single easiest fix to put in. If they decided it was the right answer, or even the right answer for a few months while hashing out other ideas, they could probably implement it in just days or even mere hours.

    Right. If the developers have been following this or any of the other threads on this topic they'd know this has been the most heavily agreed upon solution. My advice if you want to influence change is to speak with your wallets. While they are "taking their time figuring things out" best believe they are beta-testing this and tracking sales, activity, etc. under this new system. I'm free to play so sadly do not impact their bottom line aside from the occasional ad they toss my way. Still, I will be hoarding all my CP that I earn until a decision has been made.

    Hopefully they've also noticed that even just the bonus heroes feature itself is much more complicated for players to grasp than I suspect they realized, and that tying it in with the vaulting decision made it even more complicated.


    The biggest issue with bonus heroes implementation is dancing around making it s flat % across the board instead of a % chance post character star.png level being drawn.

    Which, hopefully in a pro-colorless progress step, shows they are capable of having the game make some level of decision in logic post draw, aka having it roll twice in some way.

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding the logic involved in the process, but it seems to be checking things to make sure that I've drawn a 4 or 5 from a legend to know which favorite to give me.
  • killerkoala
    killerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
    colorless cover has been begged for since the begining of this game. i hope they try and implement it before any other fix.
  • firethorne
    firethorne Posts: 1,505 Chairperson of the Boards
    killerkoala wrote:
    colorless cover has been begged for since the begining of this game. i hope they try and implement it before any other fix.

    It needs to happen sometime. I really don't care the order, just do it. I just drew my first unusable cover from their all new all different draw system. blackflag.pngicon_katebishop.png . Mine is of course is already

    blueflag.png 3
    blackflag.png 5
    purpleflag.png 4

    icon_evil.gif

    Aside from being a pain for old characters, it doesn't fix for the new ones the things we've been pleading with devs to fix.
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    Magic wrote:
    @cthulu and @Brigby who is lurking at the forum while I write this.

    Please make sure that the development team doesn't rush into any decisions. I hope they will focus on multiple angles while trying to sort out this storm.

    -snip-
    Hi Magic. Rest assured, we will definitely be taking the appropriate amount of time to analyze all the feedback from the community, in order to identify the best solution possible.
    (The community gave a LOT of feedback, so this might take some time. icon_eek.gif )
  • CNash
    CNash Posts: 952 Critical Contributor
    Magic wrote:
    We are clearly carrot people in the forum so don't overuse the stick. (just check the reception of Coulsdon Pve that took most developed players under 10 minutes and yet they are happy with it).

    Respectfully... who are "stick people"?
    94131.jpg
    "I'm not a stick! Why can't you see? I'm Stick Man, I'm Stick Man, I'm Stick Man... that's me!"
  • rc35
    rc35 Posts: 62 Match Maker
    I'll quickly add my voice to the chorus:

    +1 for the Bonus Heroes part of the change (though 5% is too low IMHO)
    +1 for Cthulu's & Brigby's communication - many thanks
    -10 for the vaulting

    I hope for positive change.

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