Heroic Venom PvE Discussion Thread 4/10 - 4/17

Unknown

Yeah I'm not sure what Demiurge is thinking when it comes to scaling, other than the money-grab, to be honest.

These weak rosters are all finishing in the top places, which means all these 1* rosters that should be transitioning to 2* rosters are winning 3* covers. There is no natural sense of progression. Those are like the last people that are going to need a bunch of 3* Cap covers. They really only need 1 so they can participate in Cap-exclusive events/nodes.

What it would force some of them to do is spend real $$ on ISO to level their 3* Cap. Is that Demiurge's plan all along? Because then they could just skip the 1*->2* transition and go straight from 1*->3*.

But for the 95% of the new players who don't spend money, they end up with a bunch of worthless 3* covers they can't use effectively when what they really needed were more 2* covers.

Kikujiro

I´m trying to understand the scaling here ...

Unstable ISO. Everyday 2 complete clears, only 1 hit per mission, or 3 incomplete, half missions untouched and the other half hit 2 times. Last day of the event one complete clear and one incomplete at the last hour hitting 5 or 6 missions 3 or 4 times. Only faced level 230 enemies the last day and that last hour on 4 nodes, Daken + Bullseye which I cleared 3 times, Congo with Venom and co. which I cleared 1 time and two with maggia guys, the one with the snipers cleared 3 times and the Don one, that, one.

That was with my entire roster available, now I´ve 100 Psylocke and BP, 50 IM35 and MStorm, 20 Torch, 6 Wolverine and MHawkeye ... but the enemies are 164 since the beggining. And I cant complain, a member from our alliance had enemies at 334 and another member at 261 when we have similar rosters.

I can´t understand the scaling here ...

Edit: on a side note. Two weekends ago I was moving to a new house, only had the **** internet from my phone and no time, but at the end I played, a lot. Today I only did the last LR and I had/have plenty of time. And it´s not on purpose, I´m just unmotivated by the new events.

Unknown

Kikujiro wrote:

Phantron wrote:

But my enemies started out as level 90 on deadly, versus 70 for you, so it's still higher. I know you're in my last PvE bracket and I'm pretty sure you finished top 10, so if it's based on just performance we should both be seeing level 90s. I leveled up BP to 141 to prepare for the tournament, and it seems like I saw higher starting enemies than you (so in retrospect I should've leveled him up AFTER the tournament started). Now fighting level 90s with a 141 BP is likely easier than you fighting 70s with whoever you got, but it seems to me that the scaling clearly does take account of the fact that one of my usable heroes is level 141 while you have no usable hero above 100. Whether that makes up for the actual difference roster is anyone's guess.

As a sidenote I don't know why people continue to say that enemy levels don't depend on your roster. There has been many tournaments where we see guys with weak rosters winning now. Do you really think every time there's a guy with a 1* roster that's just a new guy who's never done well in the last tournament? And if it's only performance based, that means people who placed first last time for whatever reason will be facing level 90s on deadly at start, and that's likely to make anyone with a 2* roster immediately quit the game because that's way too much to ask. Your performance adjusts the level of the enemies you face, but the starting point is definitely influenced by your roster. If this isn't the case there must be guys with powerful rosters that just didn't do well recently in PvE events and they should be plowing through level 50 enemies due to their recent poor performance. Yet I have literally seen no example of such a case. If there is a powerful roster at the top, it almost certainly has a maxed BP and a high level HT in it.

I´m looking at your roster right now and you have 2 characters at level 141 where I have one and a slightly advantage in levels overall. As for the current featured 3 stars ...

Black Panther: 141 yours - 100 mine
Psylocke: 89 yours - 100 mine
Human Torch: 20 both

I ended 13th (I think) on Unstable ISO. Used Spiderman once or twice in the last 5 or 6 PvE events and didnt heal with him before end of match, OBW maybe 4 or 5 times in the same number of events to steal AP and heal 2 or 3 times. In those events I did one initial clear and one refresh the last hour, except for simulator where I did the inital clear to open all nodes and collect the ISO and later I only hit the special nodes 2 or 3 times every 12-15 hours. I havent seen a node at 1 point value since December.

My enemies started at level 164 on deadly ... I havent started deadly yet.

I thought I understood scaling, now I´m totally lost.

I'm pretty sure you have the 'Anti-Spiderman Factor'. I didn't use Spiderman at all in Unstable Iso (not necessarily to avoid scaling, just wasn't needed).

It seems pretty clear the Anti-Spiderman Factor trumps anything else in your roster/past history. That part does seem pretty messed up. I say they should just nerf him already instead of randomly slapping people with an extra 100 or 200 levels on all their PvE events.

Unknown

There are two issues with scaling. The deadly missions are meant to be hard, and as far as I can tell in the absence of the 'Anti-Spiderman Factor', they're indeed appropriately hard. I was getting slapped by them repeatedly too even with a level 141 BP. Now whether the deadly missions are too easy for someone with a weak roster is something I cannot comment directly since I can't just reduce my roster's strength to see what the enemies are. Looking at the typical dominance of guys with super weak roster I do think it's a little bit too easy but in that case that means the missions for the guys with weaker roster should be a bit harder.

Separately there's the Anti-Spiderman Factor that they clearly are putting in to try to stop people from using Spiderman. I'm hearing guys fighting level 300 guys and there's no way any combination of past history or roster can possibly explain that. This factor easily trumps any other factor in your roster, so if you're labeled as a dirty web-slinger you're pretty much screwed. I don't have anything meaningful to say on this other than that they should just hurry up and nerf him instead of randomly forcing some people to fight level 300 guys for using Spiderman. I understand it's needed because Spiderman is godlike in PvE but if you need to invent a scaling factor to just counter the effect of one guy, then just nerf that guy already.

Kikujiro

The thing is that the last time I' ve used Spiderman was in Simulator and in two fights, the one with Patch and the huge ISO reward, one for normal and one for hard. Before I had used him against the lonely 230 Hulk in his event and maybe in some random fights in the first run of Simulator. I had used him repeatedly on one event, TaT, thats all.

kensterr

Phantron wrote:

There are two issues with scaling. The deadly missions are meant to be hard, and as far as I can tell in the absence of the 'Anti-Spiderman Factor', they're indeed appropriately hard. I was getting slapped by them repeatedly too even with a level 141 BP. Now whether the deadly missions are too easy for someone with a weak roster is something I cannot comment directly since I can't just reduce my roster's strength to see what the enemies are. Looking at the typical dominance of guys with super weak roster I do think it's a little bit too easy but in that case that means the missions for the guys with weaker roster should be a bit harder.

Separately there's the Anti-Spiderman Factor that they clearly are putting in to try to stop people from using Spiderman. I'm hearing guys fighting level 300 guys and there's no way any combination of past history or roster can possibly explain that. This factor easily trumps any other factor in your roster, so if you're labeled as a dirty web-slinger you're pretty much screwed. I don't have anything meaningful to say on this other than that they should just hurry up and nerf him instead of randomly forcing some people to fight level 300 guys for using Spiderman. I understand it's needed because Spiderman is godlike in PvE but if you need to invent a scaling factor to just counter the effect of one guy, then just nerf that guy already.

Either they are lazy or they don't know how to funbalance him

Unknown

kensterr wrote:

Phantron wrote:

There are two issues with scaling. The deadly missions are meant to be hard, and as far as I can tell in the absence of the 'Anti-Spiderman Factor', they're indeed appropriately hard. I was getting slapped by them repeatedly too even with a level 141 BP. Now whether the deadly missions are too easy for someone with a weak roster is something I cannot comment directly since I can't just reduce my roster's strength to see what the enemies are. Looking at the typical dominance of guys with super weak roster I do think it's a little bit too easy but in that case that means the missions for the guys with weaker roster should be a bit harder.

Separately there's the Anti-Spiderman Factor that they clearly are putting in to try to stop people from using Spiderman. I'm hearing guys fighting level 300 guys and there's no way any combination of past history or roster can possibly explain that. This factor easily trumps any other factor in your roster, so if you're labeled as a dirty web-slinger you're pretty much screwed. I don't have anything meaningful to say on this other than that they should just hurry up and nerf him instead of randomly forcing some people to fight level 300 guys for using Spiderman. I understand it's needed because Spiderman is godlike in PvE but if you need to invent a scaling factor to just counter the effect of one guy, then just nerf that guy already.

Either they are lazy or they don't know how to funbalance him

They sure are constantly on top of coming with a way to slow him down so it's not laziness. I realize they don't want to nerf him but all the mechanism they put in to stop Spiderman in PvE is getting rather ridiculous. We've an event where Spiderman is featured prominently in all the cutscenes and he's not even a playable character. At the rate we're going he might as well be permanently excluded in any 'limited roster' PvE event, and actually he might as well be excluded from all PvE events and that'd probably be better for everyone because then at least nobody will randomly have to fight level 400 guys.

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

Your performance obviously influences how much the enemy goes up by, but the baseline still has to be established by your level. If all it takes is doing poorly in a PvE event, it can't be that hard to find someone with a good roster that is just doing terrible recently. That is, you should have some guy who have level 100+ characters that barely played in the last few events because it's too hard or not enough time, and then that guy will be like 'hey guys all my deadly enemies are level 30!' As far as I can tell an event like that has never happened. Level 70 seems to be about the lowest you can expect for the starting level for deadly in this event. Now, for whatever reason it is entirely possible the scaling takes them to level 400. That part is somewhat of a mystery, but I don't see how it can be below around 70 for anyone with a level 100+ character, simply because if it can be, there must be some guy out there that has been doing bad enough recently to easily match whatever poor performance another weak roster guy can do.

On the other hand, we also know people with weak roster can't even be seeing enemies comparable to a high end roster that's doing poorly. Spoit said he saw level 70 guys, and I'm sure everyone has seen plenty of those 'how did this guy win my bracket???' screenshots. There's almost no way a guy with say a level 15 HT + level 50 IM35 + level 20 Hawkeye can even beat 3 level 70 guys reliably, so they must be seeing even weaker enemies for those guys to lead your bracket. Some of these guys don't even have a Spiderman or OBW, which means going to prologue to heal is not an option at all. Even if you've a level 141 HT and you're seeing level 70 base enemies, it really doesn't take long for the guys to chew through his health. The starting level 90 guys had no problem eating a significant part of my level 141 BP's 7K health. And of course we know these guys with the weak roster most certainly don't have a level 141 HT either. Even if you assume their HT has 5K HP, that simply doesn't last very long against even level 70 opposition, so the only way these guys can be winning their bracket has to be that their opponents are way below even what the poorest performance high level roster guy is seeing.

Actually, when I first came back at the middle of heroic juggie, they were pretty low level, like 30-40s (though the levels for that event in general were lower than usual)

Unknown

so i just bought a 10x pack and omg three human torch cards

one flame jet, one fire ball and one inferno.

im so lucky! now i need to grab more isos and level him up to his max. Omg and with 2 hours left in hotshot, I need to go all out and get far as i can

also got BP, but i dont want him. Also got wolverine, which i first didnt want but now i do, and i got to upgrade modern hawkeye so i'll most likely stay at the top for hawkeye now and not go for steve. Lets see how I do!

Unknown

Pretty sure the levels on Heroic Jugg was just low for everyone because the roster is arguably even more crippled there. You don't have Black Panther, and gaining Modern Black Widow doesn't come close to making that up. I remember I was barely beating The Hood + Muscle + Juggernaut when they're at level 50.

NorthernPolarity

Phantron wrote:

Pretty sure the levels on Heroic Jugg was just low for everyone because the roster is arguably even more crippled there. You don't have Black Panther, and gaining Modern Black Widow doesn't come close to making that up. I remember I was barely beating The Hood + Muscle + Juggernaut when they're at level 50.

I loved that roster, level 100 IM40 / 85 A. Wolvie / 1 2/5 mBW was doing work for me that round. BP obviously is miles ahead of that team even by himself, but I had a blast playing my super derpy team during that event.

Spoit

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Pretty sure the levels on Heroic Jugg was just low for everyone because the roster is arguably even more crippled there. You don't have Black Panther, and gaining Modern Black Widow doesn't come close to making that up. I remember I was barely beating The Hood + Muscle + Juggernaut when they're at level 50.

I loved that roster, level 100 IM40 / 85 A. Wolvie / 1 2/5 mBW was doing work for me that round. BP obviously is miles ahead of that team even by himself, but I had a blast playing my super derpy team during that event.

I wish I had a usable BP . Kinda regret buying a 3rd HT black cover, The extra levels don't actually seem to have helped that much, beyond giving him a reasonable amount of health

NorthernPolarity

Sigh, even something like bullseye + 2 level 80 flamethrower goons is hard to beat if you get unlucky on BP blacks. I entered the fight with full hp BP/A. Wolvie, left it with a 1k hp BP. Something else to note is that having a level 1 5/5/3 storm helps immensely during the heroic as it saves you health packs on your silly level 30 M. storm that tanks hits. I'm glad I got those extra 6 roster slots for random 1*s: the 2/5 mBW and 5/4/4 (should be 5/5/3) level 1 mStorm help a lot!

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Sigh, even something like bullseye + 2 level 80 flamethrower goons is hard to beat if you get unlucky on BP blacks. I entered the fight with full hp BP/A. Wolvie, left it with a 1k hp BP. Something else to note is that having a level 1 5/5/3 storm helps immensely during the heroic as it saves you health packs on your silly level 30 M. storm that tanks hits. I'm glad I got those extra 6 roster slots for random 1*s: the 2/5 mBW and 5/4/4 (should be 5/5/3) level 1 mStorm help a lot!

I always tell myself that I will cobble together a max covered lvl 1 Storm and a lvl 1 3/5 Modern Black Widow from LR tokens but I never shell out the HP for a roster slot when the time actually comes.

NorthernPolarity

Ghast wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Sigh, even something like bullseye + 2 level 80 flamethrower goons is hard to beat if you get unlucky on BP blacks. I entered the fight with full hp BP/A. Wolvie, left it with a 1k hp BP. Something else to note is that having a level 1 5/5/3 storm helps immensely during the heroic as it saves you health packs on your silly level 30 M. storm that tanks hits. I'm glad I got those extra 6 roster slots for random 1*s: the 2/5 mBW and 5/4/4 (should be 5/5/3) level 1 mStorm help a lot!

I always tell myself that I will cobble together a max covered lvl 1 Storm and a lvl 1 3/5 Modern Black Widow from LR tokens but I never shell out the HP for a roster slot when the time actually comes.

I've shelled out enough HP for way more roster slots than I actually need: up to 44 right now I think. You'll need them eventually for new characters so might as well build up your roster size now.

I think after playing this heroic that the optimal strategy is to join as early as possible. Doing a complete pass the day before the end seems like an issue because of how easy it is to straight up die to goons due to lack of board control characters in the roster. It's better to build your point lead slowly and use your health packs while taking damage to lower your PvE MMR while at it.

Spoit

...I still haven't actually cleared either board Sometimes I think I just just use up these stockpiled medpacks so I can get the regen back. It's not like I ever use more than 5 for a push at a time anyway

NorthernPolarity

Spoit wrote:

...I still haven't actually cleared either board Sometimes I think I just just use up these stockpiled medpacks so I can get the regen back. It's not like I ever use more than 5 for a push at a time anyway

You're missing out on precious MMR-free healing .

Twysta

I'm 51/55 roster slots right now

Unknown

I suppose I could spend some HP and recruit a few Dark Avengers for a few days, but I already have 5 red X-Force Wolvies...

Looks like I will not be cashing in those three Rag covers I get tonight.

unimatrix

Just trying to understand where I have "sinned": my first node in hard PVE is of level 158.
I don't have any level 141. Level 85 wolvie, obw and ares, out of which only wolvie can be used..
I only have 1/1/1 HT.. So I don't know how I have been bracketed to this impossible level.