**** Riri Williams (Ironheart) **** Updated (8/7/17)

GrumpySmurf1002

Definitely feel like she's being undersold, when she's boosted (and lets be honest, that's the only time a 4* matters at this point), her red's gonna do 20k, with another 10k on green. That's some pretty solid damage.

Sure, she's still quite likely below average for the tier, but no way we're talking Fantastic/Elektra trash tier territory. In the 25th-ish range feels right, give or take once she's actually used.

notamutant

hopper1979 wrote:

I am really interested to see this character in play. On paper I really like the idea behind the blue and with the right team I think she could be very solid especially when paired with the correct teammates, Prof X being at the top of the list. I have to see how they group in the center to be sure. Also her HP do not seem to be an issue if you use her green properly (again I will wait and see it in action, Wasps yellow on paper is awesome but it should cost less this power may suffer from the same issue), she might be niche but it could be a very good niche. Imagine her with Carnage, blue then green then Scythes, that will be nasty. I always like when they introduce new play mechanics and the green and blue are both fairly unique in this game.

Nope, bad team. Carnage will miss the enemy as well as Riri. Also, Riri's red is her best power, so why would you use Carnage's red over hers? Also, we already have far better teammates for Carnage (another new character, Medusa). AI can't use her green properly either, so her health does matter. She will end up airlifting an enemy that has a lower cost weak green, allowing the enemy to build up more AP for the stronger one, and then launch it as soon as the guy lands.

scottee

Her blue intrigues me, only because I'm always interested in new mechanics. There's a lot of characters that make their special tiles in one color. It basically counters OML/Phoenix, Blade, Daken, Patch, 2* Bullseye, and any of those dumb powers that make lots of yellow protect tiles.

The other possible way the lock tile mechanic might work is that it might wait until the matches resolve in the middle of the board, and then lock any special tiles that weren't matched away. Either way could be interesting.

Agree overall she's not very good though.

Jaedenkaal

Man, that blue seems less and less effective the more I think about it.

Against characters that don't use A/P/S tiles (including most of the top tier, which is probably not a coincidence) the power does nothing, notwithstanding powers that 'donate' A/P/S tiles to the enemy. Not a single thing.

Against characters that make large numbers of A/P/S tiles on random colors, this amounts to a 10 pair shuffle for 9 AP, which is a terrible deal (yeah ok lock a few tiles). Manipulation and Hair Meddle are both quite a bit better than that.

Against characters that make small numbers of A/P/S tiles (3 or less) you're basically getting -a- match for 9 AP, if you wait for it until the other tiles near the middle are the correct color (or the tiles near where the special tile is, I guess). Even Gravity Warp does damage when there are no special tiles.

Against characters that make largeish numbers of A/P/S tiles on a single color: NOW this power finally does something. For the record, among 4* characters this is likely to be favourable against:

Ant-Man (Purple Attack tiles, Yellow Strike tiles)
Sam Wilson (Yellow Protect tiles)
X-23 (Black Strike tiles)
Nova (Black Strike tiles)
Punisher (Black Strike tiles)
Kate Bishop (Purple Strike tiles)

That's not a very long list, and I'm not even convinced Ant-Man will be that great a match if he gets tiles of both colors out. "Countering" tile-makers at 2- and 3-star tiers seems a bit overkill, honestly, and there are other powers that do a similar or better job already.

Ultimately I think this power would be a lot more useful (although less interesting) if it affected tiles of the enemy's strongest color instead. At least then it would be potentially useful against any opponent, even if individual board states don't support it, and additionally would provide some improved combo potential (with Xpool at the very least, although I'm sure there are other characters who would benefit from having one color concentrated in the center of the board)

fanghoul

notamutant wrote:

hopper1979 wrote:

I am really interested to see this character in play. On paper I really like the idea behind the blue and with the right team I think she could be very solid especially when paired with the correct teammates, Prof X being at the top of the list. I have to see how they group in the center to be sure. Also her HP do not seem to be an issue if you use her green properly (again I will wait and see it in action, Wasps yellow on paper is awesome but it should cost less this power may suffer from the same issue), she might be niche but it could be a very good niche. Imagine her with Carnage, blue then green then Scythes, that will be nasty. I always like when they introduce new play mechanics and the green and blue are both fairly unique in this game.

Nope, bad team. Carnage will miss the enemy as well as Riri. Also, Riri's red is her best power, so why would you use Carnage's red over hers? Also, we already have far better teammates for Carnage (another new character, Medusa). AI can't use her green properly either, so her health does matter. She will end up airlifting an enemy that has a lower cost weak green, allowing the enemy to build up more AP for the stronger one, and then launch it as soon as the guy lands.

You have the AI playing both the offense and the defense in that second example.

hopper1979

So keep her green at 4 and her team up with Carnage and they will work well together (enemies airborn for 1 she is airborn for 2, the switch occurs at 5 green), the randomness of tiles make here blue a little less effective but you can avoid his damage and frankly I like Carnage's red as opposed to her red especially when they are both boosted. For the blue I agree with Jaedenkaal assessment there are not enough single tile generators to make here really effective but I am still leaning towards blue as a quick match damage and cascade generator as opposed to a tile locker (I still think Prof X is the way to go as her first teammate). I wish it did not lock tiles that way on teams with mixed colors you have a higher chance of matching some of them after the power and she would benefit more with teammates like Medusa. Niche, probably better in pve but new mechanics are what make the game fun.

Tilesmasher

I sincerely hope to see nothing but prof x / riri teams in pvp, that's like what... 19,000 health total?

Too many "what ifs" needed for her to be usable.

dlegendary0ne

seraphiel wrote:

Even at level 5, of her two powers that do things to enemy special tiles, neither one affects countdowns.

It was already of very limited usefulness in most situations; with this configuration it's almost entirely useless against goons. So she can be deployed against a few very specific opponents and hopefully almost maybe do something to handle their tiles.

On top of being a meh set of powers it's more of Marvel's "All Rehashed, All Tokenism" thing and yet another Iron Person instead of one of the many still-missing characters, which doesn't help to make her interesting.

Lol at "All Rehashed, All Tokenism". But yeah, her blue would be sooo much better if it included Countdown tiles. To me it's the most interesting of her abilities and it's pretty meh compared to other 4*s that handle special tiles. I mean Jean Grey can wipe all tile types - including Countdowns!

Polares

Tilesmasher wrote:

I sincerely hope to see nothing but prof x / riri teams in pvp, that's like what... 19,000 health total?

Too many "what ifs" needed for her to be usable.

I doubt anybody will use her in PvP. Maybe in PvE, but definitely not in PvP.

It is very annoying that in Hearts of Darkness node where you can try her, enemies produce exactly 0 special tiles, so we can't test her blue. Hopefully in the second sub or the third some enemy will produce any type of special tiles and we can check how this power works...


Blue seriously needs to be buffed to also attract countdowns, this way at least, she would be useful in PvE ... More hitpoints, and countdowns included in blue and then, she might be usable.

Mr_Sinister

Polares wrote:

Tilesmasher wrote:

I sincerely hope to see nothing but prof x / riri teams in pvp, that's like what... 19,000 health total?

Too many "what ifs" needed for her to be usable.

I doubt anybody will use her in PvP. Maybe in PvE, but definitely not in PvP.

It is very annoying that in Hearts of Darkness node where you can try her, enemies produce exactly 0 special tiles, so we can't test her blue. Hopefully in the second sub or the third some enemy will produce any type of special tiles and we can check how this power works...


Blue seriously needs to be buffed to also attract countdowns, this way at least, she would be useful in PvE ... More hitpoints, and countdowns included in blue and then, she might be usable.

I'm not sure what you are looking for in terms of what it does? It swaps them to the center and after matches, locks them.

The ones that get locked tend to get matched again, releasing them. It's really, really bad.

hopper1979

I will continue this argument when I have her slotted and leveled. so to be continued in about a year. Remember only 4 tiles are locked after you pull 10 to the middle you should definitely get one 5 match and then a decent cascade before the lock occurs and I will say again if they removed the locking mechanism blue would be a solid power as opposed to "lets wait and see". She is definitely pve character and again Prof X seems the way to go for maximization of her powers but you need a battery IM-40 who covers all 3 of her powers for her work effectively. She is no Captain Marvel (not even close) but her new mechanic may open up some unforeseen combos, we dismiss characters way to quickly here.

Spiritclaw

Skygazing wrote:

Riri Williams (Ironheart) :ironheart:
4 Star Rarity (Legendary)
Wiki Link
At 70: HP: 2964 10/37/42/8/33/9/23/3.0x
At 270: HP: 10976 13/74/85/11/65/12/43/3.0x

Magnetic Repulsors 9 AP
Riri uses her magnetic repulsors in her armor's gauntlets to disarm her opponents. Attract 2 enemy Attack, Protect, and Strike tiles to the center of the board.

Level 2: Attract 4 tiles. Level 3: Attact 6 tiles and lock 1 of them. Level 4: Attract 8 tiles and lock 2 of them. Level 5: Attract 10 tiles and lock 4 of them.

At 270 these numbers are exactly the same.

I think part of the problem is how they choose to showcase new characters. She's new, and there are a limited number of fights we can use her in for which she is fully covered and contributing to the fight. That blue is utterly useless if the enemy isn't using attack, protect, or strike tiles. The first fight we get to use her in no one makes them, and if I'm not mistaken the Riri you're given has 5 covers in blue.

The larger part of the problem, though, is completely useless powers. How about adding "if there are no enemy attack, protect, or strike tile on the board, the power does {something useful} instead."

hopper1979

Yep she is niche and she probably will be the Doc Ock of the 4's. I like your idea for the blue and my guess is she will be reworked eventually like IW blue was, I just wish these kind of issues were worked out before the release.

fanghoul

Thinking about it more, she's a little unique, just in terms of having board control and a nuke. Usually it's one or the other. People have been listing all the characters with better nukes than her, and all the characters with better special tile elimination, but there's not a lot (or any?) cross over in those lists. So she's a bit more of a generalist than most characters, which isn't strictly a bad thing.

Straycat

Mr_Sinister wrote:

Straycat wrote:

I have to agree with Vhailorx, I think health is incorporated to the character balance and design. Its not directly related and not consistent for all characters, but its there. Hulkbuster has a self damage ability, so his health could be a balance to that. Red hulk has a passive that helps if he takes damage. Thanos has an ability that puts him in front, and he can kill his teammates so he might be alone more often. Yes, they should be durable according to the comics, but they are probably designed with that in mind. If you look at just their health, you will see they mostly line up with their comic durability, but that doesn't mean they have no correlation to their moves.
In general, true healers (wolverine family), invisible characters (prof x, miles), or strong passives (Dr strange, Hood) will have lower health. There are exceptions and its not completely balanced, but I think they put some thought into overall design. And as you say, she has armor and should have more health, but she also doesn't have an awesome kit, so she should have more health.

Also, for all the complaints about having variants, the all new all different Marvel is pretty explicitly making variant characters. Its a way of keeping the audience with built in fans of a character while also updating it and being more diverse. If you are upset about diversity... I'll just say thats not cool.

"If you don't like this character, you're a racist..."

Good first half of your post, atrocious, childish second half.

Well, thanks for saying the first half was good!

My main point on the second half is that we can't really complain about getting variant characters in the game since the only new characters they are making are variants themselves. But I took exception to the "all tokenism" remark so I got a little preachy at the end. I'll stand by it tho, its not cool to be upset about diversity. I don't think that is atrocious or childish to say. All of the new heros are either women or non white, so if you are upset at the entirety of the All New All Different direction, there's probably a reason.

zodiac339

That up front damage from red with no conditions is pretty impressive. 1 more red than Cyclops for about as much damage as Combined Forces when you have the 10 team up to boost it. Getting green to 5 will be nice too.

So excited to see what Zendaya does with the character. What, you don't think she'd go to school letting people call her Riri, do you? Michelle is her middle name.

Vhailorx

zodiac339 wrote:

That up front damage from red with no conditions is pretty impressive. 1 more red than Cyclops for about as much damage as Combined Forces when you have the 10 team up to boost it. Getting green to 5 will be nice too.

So excited to see what Zendaya does with the character. What, you don't think she'd go to school letting people call her Riri, do you? Michelle is her middle name.

But you also dont get the targeted board destruction of cyc's red. The fact that you can manipulate tiles via his red and blue to fuel his powers are a big part of why he is so sneaky good. Rir's red is solid, no argument from me. It's just the only clearly above average thing about her.

ErikPeter

I was optimistic but eh. So, "what should have been", or, in other words, to speculate on the fixes coming about 4-6 seasons down the road:

Locking is pretty much just terrible. The only justification I can see for that effect is maybe getting additional use out of IW's Green with Riri's Blue... But that's not a good enough use for them (and you miss out on IW's phat Strikes). It could simply relocate special tiles (including CDs) to the center of the board, then destroy the center of the board.
A) That would be better at dealing with tiles of any color
It would do something even when the enemy team has no specials
C) Locking is terrible

Green is fine. Red is nice but... the tile removal is hilariously bad at lower ranks. 4 turn CD that removes 1 tile? I guess some 4s have friendly CD synergy, but why even bother? Since she's already got the damage ramping up to good levels, they could make the side effects better at low cover levels.

For a player who snags a couple of her covers there's absolutely nothing to get excited about... An easy cover to trash for anyone still worrying about roster room. With max covers I can see some reasons you'd try her out, say against special-using 5-stars (OML, e.g.), but the players who would need to do that (4-transitioners) aren't likely to get her maxed any time soon and will have better characters to use regardless.

Mr_Sinister

Straycat wrote:

Mr_Sinister wrote:

Straycat wrote:

I have to agree with Vhailorx, I think health is incorporated to the character balance and design. Its not directly related and not consistent for all characters, but its there. Hulkbuster has a self damage ability, so his health could be a balance to that. Red hulk has a passive that helps if he takes damage. Thanos has an ability that puts him in front, and he can kill his teammates so he might be alone more often. Yes, they should be durable according to the comics, but they are probably designed with that in mind. If you look at just their health, you will see they mostly line up with their comic durability, but that doesn't mean they have no correlation to their moves.
In general, true healers (wolverine family), invisible characters (prof x, miles), or strong passives (Dr strange, Hood) will have lower health. There are exceptions and its not completely balanced, but I think they put some thought into overall design. And as you say, she has armor and should have more health, but she also doesn't have an awesome kit, so she should have more health.

Also, for all the complaints about having variants, the all new all different Marvel is pretty explicitly making variant characters. Its a way of keeping the audience with built in fans of a character while also updating it and being more diverse. If you are upset about diversity... I'll just say thats not cool.

"If you don't like this character, you're a racist..."

Good first half of your post, atrocious, childish second half.

Well, thanks for saying the first half was good!

My main point on the second half is that we can't really complain about getting variant characters in the game since the only new characters they are making are variants themselves. But I took exception to the "all tokenism" remark so I got a little preachy at the end. I'll stand by it tho, its not cool to be upset about diversity. I don't think that is atrocious or childish to say. All of the new heros are either women or non white, so if you are upset at the entirety of the All New All Different direction, there's probably a reason.

I like diversity. I don't like inserting diversity into "mantles" because creating original, diverse characters is too much of a risk. It's lazy and I find it far more insulting as it seems to say "we want diversity, but they aren't good enough to stand on their own merits".

That's the issue many of us have with these changes.

Straycat

Mr_Sinister wrote:

I like diversity. I don't like inserting diversity into "mantles" because creating original, diverse characters is too much of a risk. It's lazy and I find it far more insulting as it seems to say "we want diversity, but they aren't good enough to stand on their own merits".

That's the issue many of us have with these changes.

Thats fair, but the character carries so much more weight if it is an established name. She's Ironheart but its still the Ironman comic series. I agree that wholly original characters would be nice, but they probably wouldn't sell. Kamala Khan wouldn't have sold at all if she had a different superhero name, i dont know. Its probably a little lazy to say "lets make Thor and iron man a woman" instead of creating a new character, but they are new characters and now they can make an iron man and thor comic featuring women. I got kicked out of my alliance for not being a trump supporter, so I am quick to assume comic book fans online are not fans of diversity. My bad

Anyways, she feels weird to use since her damage applies at the beginning of the countdown and going airborne. She could go well with Thanos if you down an enemy with green and then fly out of deaths way. The locking is annoying if you wanted to use Rocket and Groot to blammo the middle of the board.

Jaedenkaal wrote:

Ant-Man (Purple Attack tiles, Yellow Strike tiles)
Sam Wilson (Yellow Protect tiles)
X-23 (Black Strike tiles)
Nova (Black Strike tiles)
Punisher (Black Strike tiles)
Kate Bishop (Purple Strike tiles)

Also:
Luke Cage (Black Protect)
and sort of
Hulkbuster (Yellow Strike, Blue Protect)
Invisible Woman (Yellow Protect, Blue Strike)

I only tried it out with 3 enemy tiles, and they don't even relocate them to where they would match before locking.