** Black Widow (Original) ** [PRE 2014-06]

Unknown

Her colors don't overlap with Thor and wolverine. End of story

Unknown

She is queen of the 2*'s for her healing and AP theft. However, her black becomes immediately useless as you transition into a 3* team b/c her black requires her to make the match. Her purple is the most annoying ability, but given that I use BWGS, purple is a priority for me so I rarely ever have to worry about her theft ability. Healing is annoying but given that she only shows up in 2* teams (for the most part) the health pools of her teammates aren't that high anyway and 1 snipe flattens them all.

And even in the 2* realm, every well-designed team will have at least one character that can practically one-shot her.

She's fine as is, a well-designed character with a lot of usefulness.

Polares

Yes I have noticed. Everytime a character is nerfed another one takes its place. Which are the best 2* ? Wolvie (I still think he is), OBW and then maybe Ares. So until people obteins better 3* (like Spidey, Patch, Mags, etc.) most of the people will use the best 2*

It is VERY difficult to balance characters in games like this, and people always notices which are the best ones and as I said, there are not that many good 2*. This game needs 4-8 new 2* so people can choose witch one suits their style better. Now the proportion between 3* and 2* is not correct, there are two many 3*

OBW - Good
Ares - Good
Wolvie - Good
Thor - Regular
Bullseye - Bad
Captain America - Regular
Daken - Almost good, but the 69 level cap kills him
Hawkeye - Bad
Magneto - Regular (two slow)
Moonstone - REgular
Bag - man - Bad
Storm - Almost good (few HP, abilities a little expensive)

Of course this is my opinion

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Ben Grimm wrote:

She's useful on offense, but very squishy on defense, so it never bothers me when I see her on a team. I was actively avoiding teams with an 85th level Thor (and still prefer other opponents), but OBW never concerns me too much. I don't think she needs a nerf.

Squishy, maybe, but she can keep you from farming the AP to take her out. She's really good on defense, just because of the constant AP theft.

Been seeing her in nearly every one of my matches.

Unknown

I'll just echo most responses in the thread.
As far as 2* lineups go, there's a number of reasons:
(PROS)
1. Her colours do not overlap with Thor/Wolverine
2. She heals. Before the change to Wolverine, I relied entirely on him to tank and then take the time in the prologue to heal him up. Now a Healer feels more useful.
3. Related: She steals AP (with both Black/Purple abilities) ultimately resulting in less damage taken.
4. Espionage plays nice with Strike tiles. Even with Wolverine strike tile nerfs, it's still powerful.

Ultimately though, she isn't a big deal, since:
(CONS)
1. She is a support character.
2. Related: She deals very little damage on her own
3. She is relatively squishy and thus can be focused out of the picture if need be.

There's also some additional pros/cons that are much more situational:
(SITUATIONAL)
1. Interaction with countdown tiles (and potentially a lack/reduction in healing)
2. Potentially limited colours of AP steal (depending on levels of Black/Purple)
3. Related: Espionage requires her to be the damage dealer (potential impact on roster, related to first pro point)

It's also entirely possible I missed some points. One additional thing that doesn't really fall into a category is the fact that her cover composition isn't as cut and dry as others. There's legitimate points to be made for more than one build, which provides versatility and ultimately more opportunities to be used.

Unknown

She's a lot like Modern Storm, where if you ignore her, she can put you in a bad spot against the AI. Especially if she's running with someone like Ares/Patch.

Unknown

They better NOT nerf her! I finally maxed her out 4 weesk ago. Suck it up and shut up! Just go away, some of you guys just don't get the more we complain or nag or "point things out" the worst the game gets.

Unknown

Her AP steal might be a bit too good, especially with Daredevil establishing firm limits on what each ability could do. For 11 purple, Daredevil can steal 6 of each color versus OBW stealing 4 of each for the same cost (using both level 5), but one is active and the other is reactive. It's not like Spiderman whose stun is better than the person that ought to have the best single target stun in the game but it's getting into the uncomfortable range.

That said OBW is a pushover on defense unless you forgot to deny purple. I never really used her as a healer even without Spiderman and blue is never my priority unless someone else on the team can use it. Her heal is more like ensuring you don't lose too much HP after each battle but since going into a battle with 75% health is still risky, it nowhere as powerful as Spiderman whose heal might as well completely reset the game in terms of health (yours).

Due to how espionage works, it's very likely killing OBW leaves your opponent sitting on 2 or even 3 dead colors, which makes her a huge liability on defense. Normally, if you kill say Wolverine before he does anything, the enemy almost certainly can use red/green in some way. Killing OBW generally leaves at least 2 out of 3 colors useless (if you have someone else strong in those colors they would be likely to match that color which diminishes effectiveness of OBW).

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Unity wrote:

They better NOT nerf her! I finally maxed her out 4 weesk ago. Suck it up and shut up! Just go away, some of you guys just don't get the more we complain or nag or "point things out" the worst the game gets.

I think Espionage is bugged, actually . It does the extra damage even when there's nothing to steal, which isn't what the description says. Only noticed recently and don't remember if it always did. Did look for developer comment on it, but all I could find was IceIX talking about her pre-Espionage and confirming Espionage is supposed to trigger strike tiles.

NotYou13

She's the best ** support character. I know personally, she's an anchor on my team and has been as long as I've been fielding ** teams, but that's because I love the AP denial and healing. She's overshadowed by *** support characters, as she should be. She's not your main damage dealer, particularly after **Wolv's strike tile nerfs which also brought espionage down out of the stratosphere a bit. She's just a solid part of a good ** team. If you start seeing her used over maxed or close to maxed *** support, then there's a problem (see Thorverine). Until then, I don't see a problem.

Unknown

Wolvie and Thor are interchangeable with nearly half the cast. Obw is not. Same problem with Spidey. They're both strong, but what they need more than nerfs are alternatives.

Unknown

The only better 'support' character than OBW is Spiderman who is definitely way overpowered.

Aggressive Recon is probably too good for its cost. It's currently balanced by the fact that OBW doesn't actually do anything else useful besides Aggressive Recon unless combined with Patch, and that using her prevents you from ever using anyone with a stronger purple match because Aggressive Recon is the primary reason to use her. I'm not sure if those drawbacks makes her balanced, but they do exist. This isn't like Thor/Wolverine where you just always used them because they have no weakness whatsoever.

Unknown

Don't have her up and running yet due to few covers, but I love playing against her.

She is very easy to deny and dies so fast without never having dealt out very much damage. If she's lucky, she gets a steal through which can be annoying but not much more (unless opponent team also includes Storm and fires her storm as a reaction on the steal, then things are starting to look grim, but I find this a rare situation, when OBW is on the defence.)

Unknown

WilliamK99 wrote:

Shhhhhhhhhhh or she will be next on the Nerf block...

When will whiners realize, the more you complain about characters, the more likely the nerf knife will CUT EVERYONE...

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE! And it shall be I, the only hero without a non-visible head ...BAGMAN! And my invisible lady friend BAGLADY too since her head can go invisible! all enemies shall be slain by my mighty nerf web blasters of JUSTICE!!! Ragnarok has the audacity to put a kick me sign on my back?! Neeerrf him! *webbing.webbing webbing* thor and wolvie actually kick.me?!?! *webbing webbing webbing* what was that you said magneto? Huh? I can't hear you over the sound of my NERF WEBBING *webbing webbing webbing* oh, who is that handsome man in the red and blue suit ...I don't think ill nerf him (what?!?!? Spiderman is broken what are you..) fine fine. It's okay. Even if Spiderman.is my alter ego. You know, because compared to.my.awesome superpowers of snark and being a New Orleans saints fan (cough...bag reference) Spiderman is the mild manner rep...err...weirdo dressed in a skin tight suit. Actually, why DO I do that? Retrospect? Probably could have gotten away with cargo pants and a tactical fedora. No shirt cuz...HAVE YOU SEEN MY SPIDER ABS?!?!? yes, spiders have abs...thats why its part of my superpowers. Watch discovery channel sometime you ignorant pricks. Point? You better watch your nastier type of spider as- wait, do you have spiderpowers too black widow? Maybe you can clear this up with the spider abs. I made that up about spiders having them I think. Can't be sure...cannot stand the discovery channel....too much bear sex. Yack foreplay, ant orgies, echidna kissing or ...whatever with those tongues...fine. I just, the bears ARE SO FAT?!?! makes me feel bad they don't have spider abs. Plus, bears are big and kinda scary. Bare-Bearman has got to.be a super villian SOMEWHERE right? With...BEAR arms and no tshirt. Yea, kinda wish I had decided to.go the no t-shirt route. Maybe then I wouldn't have to wear a bag over my head just to get to go.watch the superbowl with my totally not.being chauvinist by sayin this male friends who actually know what a football game is. Hmm? What was that captain Britain? Egg ball? *glare* *webbing webbing.webbing* yea, so don't expect to ever see captain Britain in this game...ever..fyi. cuz

REASONS!

over_clocked

Come on, the girl doesn't need any nerfs/buffs. She's both awesome when you play her, and very killable when you play against her (the AI can get lucky as well, but this happens with other characters too).

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

And it leads to a real world market for covers, where if you pay me $X I'll swap you the cover of the colour you are missing. That path leads to ripoffs and swindles.

Well, if D3 were smart and there were a market for this, they'd do it officially in game and take a cut.
i.e. You can do any cover trade in-game with any amount of ISO or HP attached to either side. D3 gets 5 HP from both parties each time you do.
Eliminates fraud and gives them a little off the top.

In short, if there's a black market for something in a video game, then the developer should make a white market and profit.

Unknown

I'm not even sure HOW they would do a cover trade. It doesn't look like a "friend list" could be incorporated into the game.

Unknown

ApolloAndy wrote:

Well, if D3 were smart and there were a market for this, they'd do it officially in game and take a cut.

Uh, they already selling you covers except very first one in each color.

Unknown

I think my last 3 non-1* pulls from standard tokens have all been OBW.

Unknown

This is the big problem with a game that nerfs frequently: characters that are just fine, a mix of strength and weakness, are singled out for nerfing by part of the playerbase because they aren't totally useless. "That character can do something more than match tiles! Nerf it now!" OBW needs no changes. Perhaps some other 2* characters should be made more useful, but to nerf everyone down to the level of Bagman or Yelena will nerf the game into being deleted off of everyone's phone or PC.