*** Human Torch (Classic) ***

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Comments

  • Would 5/5/3 be the go-to build here?

    Red seems self explanatory, 6AP for Adamantium Slash sounds pretty good.

    Between Green and Black, there's just too much contest for Green, and we can circumvent Black's drawback (sapping Y/U/P) by rushing to 10 Black to set it up, and that at 3* level there's barely any strong Purple skills anyway.
  • I like his green for PvE, though currently Captain's red seems even better for PvE purposes but I don't see that staying the way it is forever.

    For PvP I'd probably put the least in green simply because green is overloaded with awesome skills so you can afford to have a weaker green, but I'd really like to have a good skill as a hedge for PvE against level 230 opponents when the usual cheesy stuff gets nerfed.
  • So is his black draining ap every turn they deal damage or only upon activation?
  • Arclight wrote:
    So is his black draining ap every turn they deal damage or only upon activation?

    By Odin's beard no...just on activation.

    If I had to place him on a tier list instantly just based on assumed max stats and what little I played with a 1/1/1.... I would put him somewhere around psylocke. Like her he has one very solid skill (black for psy, red for torch) and two more uncertain skills. Psy's red is pretty bad ap/damage ratio if you don't already have strike tiles down...set it up and its pretty good. I feel the same way about torch's black and green skills. They are above average, but neither will likely be great defensive moves and green is too strong to be wasted on torch's green unless you het a boatload of green pretty quickly.

    If you think about it, the green is just an odd version of something like doom's demon. And when I say odd, I mean it as "bad different." Much rather spend 10-12 ap straight up to get a strong DOT move than to get something that ends up costing the same by turn 5-6 but requires me to have a ton of ap stored to be good. I mean, you need 12+ ap to make the green do any real damage and all it takes is one tile placement to ruin the whole move...plus getting multiples down doesn't really make the move all that much better (as you lose 5 ap to drop the new one and you lose ap twice as fast...better quick damage, but worse over a couple turns unless you are really stocked up on green).

    The black is a solid "demon" style.move. 8*maybe 150-180 each at max is pretty chunky damage.for only 10 ap. That said, the damage is still close to what demons do for 12 black ap. Would you rather it cost 2 more black ap or take 1/3 of 3 colors? I am.going with the extra 2 black. Every black shouldn't be compared to tinykitty panther, so kitty klaw aside, the black.is still pretty good...it just needs some special setting up or a willingness to lose out on some ap. And sure, you can try to rush to 10 black, but trying too hard for one color is almost never a good idea (well..post red rag world).

    The moves/damage puts him above psylocke...the low hp drops him to about even.

    Anyway, I will probably go 5/5/3, 5/4/4, or possibly 4/4/4 and whatever I get first as the last. I feel I would use the green the least though, so I am probably looking at 5/5/3 as my most likely build. If that green was yellow I would jump him on a tier list and consider using him, but it still doesn't change THAT much. Anyway, he overlaps with with strike tile generators a bit too much for my liking, though he oddly probably works best WITH strike tile generators at the same time. Id say the way to play him would be to use him as if he didn't even have a green and only.drop it if you have put some strike tiles down or (if you use thor) your main green user has been downed or is in some way not as effective anymore (only 1 enemy left vs. Thor).
    Punisher/magneto/torch would probably work pretty well although it wouldn't have yellow. You would basically just select which color is your best choice at the time. High hp character with below 40%? Punisher red. Lots of strike tiles out? Mag red (if a 5/4/4 or a 5/5/3 build). Most other times? Torch red. No strike tiles down? Punisher green. Bunches of strike tiles down? Torch green. Need some "now" damage or have a lot of ap stored? Punisher black. Low on ap? Torch black.

    Something else I want to point out....(seperate post so ppl don't skip it because its important to note this)
  • Anyway, what I wanted to point out (sorry if someone mentioned it already, I didn't read more than the last 3-5 comments) is the timing of green. That is, the move activates each turn at the BEGINNING of the turn. This is important because, unlike attack tiles, it will be getting a separate dip on strike tiles compared to attack tiles (which are all lumped together regardless of where they come from). So while doom demon+human torch get one dip total, human torch green and demons get 2 seperate dips. Negative apply too though, as you will be having more def tile dips to deal with as well.
  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    Anyone see people who spent HP to level the covers? I know someone said that the red was just a straight damage increase, but there's definitely room for more tricks in his other covers.

    Sure the black does similar damage to doom's at what probably works out to a higher cost, but IMO his is a bit better, since tankiness aside, doom is a 1 trick pony, whereas this seems to have a totally viable red spam attack.

    It seems like he'd be a good teammate for lazy daken, since he's red->black->green, and daken is green->black->purple, so if you kept their levels matched (until 115 anyway, if daken doesn't have a 3rd ability) he'd only be exposed on red. And then you'd either have one of the many primary red characters to make him not exposed at all, or some yellow/blue/purple character to use up the extra colors (are there any yellow/blue/purples other than spidey?)
  • Anyway, what I wanted to point out (sorry if someone mentioned it already, I didn't read more than the last 3-5 comments) is the timing of green. That is, the move activates each turn at the BEGINNING of the turn. This is important because, unlike attack tiles, it will be getting a separate dip on strike tiles compared to attack tiles (which are all lumped together regardless of where they come from). So while doom demon+human torch get one dip total, human torch green and demons get 2 seperate dips. Negative apply too though, as you will be having more def tile dips to deal with as well.
    Not only that. I played a match with him in SHIELD training, and if you have two countdowns down, they activate seperately, so with multiple greens out, you get strike tile bonus damage for each one. Torch+LDaken will be one hell of a dangerous combo.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2Nonce Equitaur 2 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    I need stats, stat!

    IceIX? If anyone can post his level 15 abilities at each level in red, black, and green, I'll add them to the compendium. His max stats would also be useful to know.
  • WolfmanX25 wrote:
    Anyway, what I wanted to point out (sorry if someone mentioned it already, I didn't read more than the last 3-5 comments) is the timing of green. That is, the move activates each turn at the BEGINNING of the turn. This is important because, unlike attack tiles, it will be getting a separate dip on strike tiles compared to attack tiles (which are all lumped together regardless of where they come from). So while doom demon+human torch get one dip total, human torch green and demons get 2 seperate dips. Negative apply too though, as you will be having more def tile dips to deal with as well.
    Not only that. I played a match with him in SHIELD training, and if you have two countdowns down, they activate seperately, so with multiple greens out, you get strike tile bonus damage for each one. Torch+LDaken will be one hell of a dangerous combo.

    Why would you want 2? Each will suck 1ap per turn, and your first timer would have 5 green ap less to inflict damage
  • If you have a lot of green (for instance after a Bewilder) and you want the damage twice as fast.
    Or if you have a lot of strike tiles out.

    It won't be relevant very often, but there are times where it could be the right thing to do. If you run Torch with Thor and GSBW in the desert, you might be able to generate enough green to support two countdowns.
  • morphy wrote:
    WolfmanX25 wrote:
    Anyway, what I wanted to point out (sorry if someone mentioned it already, I didn't read more than the last 3-5 comments) is the timing of green. That is, the move activates each turn at the BEGINNING of the turn. This is important because, unlike attack tiles, it will be getting a separate dip on strike tiles compared to attack tiles (which are all lumped together regardless of where they come from). So while doom demon+human torch get one dip total, human torch green and demons get 2 seperate dips. Negative apply too though, as you will be having more def tile dips to deal with as well.
    Not only that. I played a match with him in SHIELD training, and if you have two countdowns down, they activate seperately, so with multiple greens out, you get strike tile bonus damage for each one. Torch+LDaken will be one hell of a dangerous combo.

    Why would you want 2? Each will suck 1ap per turn, and your first timer would have 5 green ap less to inflict damage

    At 12 green AP, spending the 5 for a second tile will begin giving you more damage over the next 3 turns than having only one, and faster damage is nearly always better than long-term damage that can get matched or destroyed. And with the damage caps of the CD tiles, strike tiles, and attack tiles, having more than one CD tile gets even better
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    So how do the tiles count green? If I start my turn with 1 tile out, and I have 10 Green AP, does it take 1 first then base damage off of 9AP, or does it look at AP first, then take 1 green, basing damage off of 10 AP?
  • Storm and Hulk activate before subtracting. I don't have any reason to believe this will be different. And if you have 1 AP left, it'd be silly to eat it up and not do anything.
  • Arclight wrote:
    So is his black draining ap every turn they deal damage or only upon activation?

    By Odin's beard no...just on activation.

    If I had to place him on a tier list instantly just based on assumed max stats and what little I played with a 1/1/1.... I would put him somewhere around psylocke. Like her he has one very solid skill (black for psy, red for torch) and two more uncertain skills. Psy's red is pretty bad ap/damage ratio if you don't already have strike tiles down...set it up and its pretty good. I feel the same way about torch's black and green skills. They are above average, but neither will likely be great defensive moves and green is too strong to be wasted on torch's green unless you het a boatload of green pretty quickly.

    If you think about it, the green is just an odd version of something like doom's demon. And when I say odd, I mean it as "bad different." Much rather spend 10-12 ap straight up to get a strong DOT move than to get something that ends up costing the same by turn 5-6 but requires me to have a ton of ap stored to be good. I mean, you need 12+ ap to make the green do any real damage and all it takes is one tile placement to ruin the whole move...plus getting multiples down doesn't really make the move all that much better (as you lose 5 ap to drop the new one and you lose ap twice as fast...better quick damage, but worse over a couple turns unless you are really stocked up on green).

    The black is a solid "demon" style.move. 8*maybe 150-180 each at max is pretty chunky damage.for only 10 ap. That said, the damage is still close to what demons do for 12 black ap. Would you rather it cost 2 more black ap or take 1/3 of 3 colors? I am.going with the extra 2 black. Every black shouldn't be compared to tinykitty panther, so kitty klaw aside, the black.is still pretty good...it just needs some special setting up or a willingness to lose out on some ap. And sure, you can try to rush to 10 black, but trying too hard for one color is almost never a good idea (well..post red rag world).

    The moves/damage puts him above psylocke...the low hp drops him to about even.

    Anyway, I will probably go 5/5/3, 5/4/4, or possibly 4/4/4 and whatever I get first as the last. I feel I would use the green the least though, so I am probably looking at 5/5/3 as my most likely build. If that green was yellow I would jump him on a tier list and consider using him, but it still doesn't change THAT much. Anyway, he overlaps with with strike tile generators a bit too much for my liking, though he oddly probably works best WITH strike tile generators at the same time. Id say the way to play him would be to use him as if he didn't even have a green and only.drop it if you have put some strike tiles down or (if you use thor) your main green user has been downed or is in some way not as effective anymore (only 1 enemy left vs. Thor).
    Punisher/magneto/torch would probably work pretty well although it wouldn't have yellow. You would basically just select which color is your best choice at the time. High hp character with below 40%? Punisher red. Lots of strike tiles out? Mag red (if a 5/4/4 or a 5/5/3 build). Most other times? Torch red. No strike tiles down? Punisher green. Bunches of strike tiles down? Torch green. Need some "now" damage or have a lot of ap stored? Punisher black. Low on ap? Torch black.

    Something else I want to point out....(seperate post so ppl don't skip it because its important to note this)

    As already mention Human Torches Black will do 200 per strike tile at max level or 1600 per turn. At a cost of 10 black AP makes it second only to BP's Black. Only better green is Lazy Thors. 5 Ap is really cheap you can drop multiples for greater effect and I think if you combined with intimidation can get it to go off twice in one turn. I think he has to be ranked higher than Psylocke as his red and black abilities are better. While Psylocke has more hp its only 725 more HP which really isn't a lot.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    So how do the tiles count green? If I start my turn with 1 tile out, and I have 10 Green AP, does it take 1 first then base damage off of 9AP, or does it look at AP first, then take 1 green, basing damage off of 10 AP?

    Will be testing to find out. Also wanna find out what happens to the tile when you can't pay the upkeep. Will post my results later today
  • HailMaryHailMary Posts: 2,179
    Rorex wrote:
    Also wanna find out what happens to the tile when you can't pay the upkeep. Will post my results later today
    When you run out of green AP, the tile stays on the board, but it deals no damage.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Storm and Hulk activate before subtracting. I don't have any reason to believe this will be different. And if you have 1 AP left, it'd be silly to eat it up and not do anything.

    the later part actually makes sense, so it more than likely counts AP first, then eats the upkeep cost.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    So how do the tiles count green? If I start my turn with 1 tile out, and I have 10 Green AP, does it take 1 first then base damage off of 9AP, or does it look at AP first, then take 1 green, basing damage off of 10 AP?

    So did some testing and the damage is done based on available AP then the 1 Ap is removed. So in the cases with more than one tile out with say 9 AP the first goes off for the max the second goes off for 8, the third for seven and so on.

    It does also work with intimidation but you have to pay the AP cost of 1 per tile again. So the upkeep is when it goes off not a the start of the turn. Also as Hail Mary just said the Tile remains oin the board even if you can't pay the upkeep. Which may mean the strategy is to get multiple out then generate AP.
  • edited April 2014
    Vast form makes bad posts lol
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rorex wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    So how do the tiles count green? If I start my turn with 1 tile out, and I have 10 Green AP, does it take 1 first then base damage off of 9AP, or does it look at AP first, then take 1 green, basing damage off of 10 AP?

    So did some testing and the damage is done based on available AP then the 1 Ap is removed. So in the cases with more than one tile out with say 9 AP the first goes off for the max the second goes off for 8, the third for seven and so on.

    It does also work with intimidation but you have to pay the AP cost of 1 per tile again. So the upkeep is when it goes off not a the start of the turn. Also as Hail Mary just said the Tile remains oin the board even if you can't pay the upkeep. Which may mean the strategy is to get multiple out then generate AP.

    Very interesting, I thought it would have done the damage simultaneously so if you started with 10 green AP all tiles look to that, then each tile sucks an AP, intersting, that it goes tile by tile.
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