*** Human Torch (Classic) ***

Der_Lex

IceIX wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Ice, any chance his Flame Jet can be made Yellow instead of Green?

Unlikely, but not impossible. Abilities (and color strengths) are based on what that ability does and character traits. Green tends to be a board control/board affecting color with a damage component which is exactly what Flame Jet is.

Ha, I knew it! As a (casual) Magic: The Gathering player, I've been considering compiling a post with my observations about the MPQ 'color pie' for a while, and that was exactly what I would have pegged as green's predominant characteristics (with red's being 'pure damage' and black's being attack tile generation with a possible damage component, so Torch's abilities match those perfectly as well).

Dayv

Agreed with everyone that Human Torch should have been red/yellow/black both for thematic reasons and to keep from creating yet another Red/Green/Black 3* character when two popular ones exist. Maybe the power should have been redesigned to fit yellow better.

On the other hand, I'm one of the few people who doesn't love The Punisher, so he'll be my second favorite Red/Black/Green.

Rye555

I find him to be a great counter to Daredevil as he destroys red tiles and overwrites with attack tiles.

Unknown

Rye555 wrote:

I find him to be a great counter to Seenoevil as he destroys red tiles and overwrites with attack tiles.

Come to think of it, he destroys red tiles and makes attack tiles so he's a great counter to Moonstone as well! Man, the current meta's highest tier characters are in trouble now!

Unknown

HT looks to be one of the best damage dealers out there. As pointed out already his red does signifigant damage for the AP cost. Retribution is only better against high HP foes. In addition if the scaling holds his black will rival Dr Dooms. Finally his green has real potential, I mean pick up 30 green Ap and its likely game over.

Personally I hope flame jet stays a green ability though I agree HT without an ability called supernova is a shame. it being a green ability is way better as its way easier to generate green AP then yellow. Team HT up with Hulk! and IM40. Two excellent sources of green AP plus you guard the glass cannon on offense for every color but black. Sure you have to worry that Hulk might destroy one of the countdown tiles but at a cost of 5 AP they are quite cheap and the strategy will be to wait to drop them.

I also think the estimate on the green max damage are a bit low. I agree with the 200 per green AP but think the max is a little low.
1 cover 14 per Green AP max 126 (9 times)
2 covers 20 per Green AP max 176 (8.8 times)
So following that pattern at least 8 times seems reasonable at 5 covers. Either a .2 times decrease with each cover or 2.22%. So max level maybe a little higher like 1600 but what really makes it good is its per tile with no apparent tile limit. Thus get 30 green AP, drop 4 tiles (20 AP) and first turn your doing 6400 damage (4 tiles at 1600 damage each), 4800 damage second turn (4 tiles at 1200 damage each), 1600 damage third turn (4 tiles at 400 damage each). That combined with the black which if damage estimates hold, will be doing 1600 damage a turn, will put away pretty much any team.

Also HT will be decent on defense if teamed with Hulk! and IM40 as AI will still likely use inferno and fireball properly.

mischiefmaker

If you're going to get 30 green AP, why not just Call the Storm twice and be done on the first turn?

Rye555

If I put 2 countdown tiles, does it take 2 AP a turn and so on?

Unknown

He's a variant Punisher. Dunno if I'll bother raising him since my Punisher is already at 141.

Unknown

Rye555 wrote:

If I put 2 countdown tiles, does it take 2 AP a turn and so on?

Thats how it seems to work based on the description.

HailMary

Is it just me, or does Torch's stat-page character pose look like he's saying "Yeah, I dunno how to turn it off, either, bro."

Unknown

mischiefmaker wrote:

If you're going to get 30 green AP, why not just Call the Hallestorm twice and be done on the first turn?

Well obviously you can do similiar damage earlier I just used 30 as its the max. For example at 18AP, dropping two tiles, first turn will do 3200, second turn will do 2400, third turn 1600, and so on. In addition unlike Lazy Thors powers you can feed the fire by getting additional green once it is down. At 18 green AP lazy thor is going to do only 3856 to 7708 depending on the number of enemies. So in comparision HT surpass during second turn if only one enemy is left and 4th if there are three. Also HT is much more versatile. All three of his attacks are good or great. HT red is better than lazy thors especially considering the effective cost is 6 AP and HTs black is better than lazy thors yellow.

Obviously lazy thor is a tank so the fact that overall HT does more damage doesn't make him better. Then again I wouldn't be surprized to eventually see lazy thor on a nerf list.

Unknown

It will be curious to see what happen to the countdown tiles if you cant pay the upkeep costs. Do they disappear or just sit there doing nothing till you generate more green?

Unknown

Rorex wrote:

It will be curious to see what happen to the countdown tiles if you cant pay the upkeep costs. Do they disappear or just sit there doing nothing till you generate more green?

First question that popped to my mind too. Third option is that they keep activating, but do nothing to your ap pile if you have 0 already.

Unknown

I want him so bad. Looks like a lot of fun to play with. Call me crazy, but I like the characters that have significant risks to using their ability. Guys like torch and ares will make the game more interesting. I'm all for it.

Between my personal rank in this event (I always hit top 5 in PvE) and my awesome alliance (5 Deadly FTW!!!) I should have enough covers to see if he is worth playing with or if he is just a novelty.

Unknown

I don't see why the tile wouldn't just continue to activate doing 0 damage if you have no AP left. Maybe it'd even still get the benefit of strike tiles?

Zifna

DayvBang wrote:

Agreed with everyone that HE'SONFIRE! should have been red/yellow/black both for thematic reasons and to keep from creating yet another Red/Green/Black 3* character when two popular ones exist. Maybe the power should have been redesigned to fit yellow better.

On the other hand, I'm one of the few people who doesn't love The Littlebunnypunpun, so he'll be my second favorite Red/Black/Green.

We could definitely use more color combo variety. I was talking with my husband and we were trying to think of someone he could add to his team who was *** and had used green but not red (he wants his psylocke to take the red) - I don't think there is one! There are a couple who use red but not green, but EVERYONE who uses green mana also uses red. BORING.

NorthernPolarity

Zifna wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

Agreed with everyone that HE'SONFIRE! should have been red/yellow/black both for thematic reasons and to keep from creating yet another Red/Green/Black 3* character when two popular ones exist. Maybe the power should have been redesigned to fit yellow better.

On the other hand, I'm one of the few people who doesn't love The Littlebunnypunpun, so he'll be my second favorite Red/Black/Green.

We could definitely use more color combo variety. I was talking with my husband and we were trying to think of someone he could add to his team who was *** and had used green but not red (he wants his Ninjaactiongirl to take the red) - I don't think there is one! There are a couple who use red but not green, but EVERYONE who uses green mana also uses red. BORING.

GSBW would work since no one uses her red anyways =D

Xyren

Der_Lex wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Ice, any chance his Flame Jet can be made Yellow instead of Green?

Ha, I knew it! As a (casual) Magic: The Gathering player, I've been considering compiling a post with my observations about the MPQ 'color pie' for a while, and that was exactly what I would have pegged as green's predominant characteristics (with red's being 'pure damage' and black's being attack tile generation with a possible damage component, so Torch's abilities match those perfectly as well).

As a former Magic player myself, I was actually thinking about the "color pie" the other day as well. I saw green as board shuffling - powers like lightning storm/strike, judgement, thunderous clap, unstoppable crash, godlike power, and sniper rifle all destroy a decent (and in all but two cases random) number of tiles to create a new board. But then you have Wolverine, Ares, Thor who flatly don't fit that mold with their greens. Sunder deals more damage based on the number of greens you have, and similarly 2** Wolverine's feral claws which is based on the number of reds, but they just don't really fit the idea of board shuffling at all. Call the storm has nothing to do with green as far as I can tell. Then there are the other powers that destroy sections of the board - twin pistols, arrow stab, magnetized projectile, iron hammer, and magnetic flux - which for the most part are either targeted or countdowns that don't really fit the green mold (except magnetized projectile, which with its low damage and random effect fits far better in green). I know I'm leaving some out, but that's my idea of what green is.

I for one would love to see your thoughts on the color pie. I'd love to see IceIX's color attributions as well. I was thinking of making a thread about it myself, but with no reputation and like three posts, lol.

Nonce Equitaur 2

The Wikipedia article on Infinity Gems mentions the powers of the gems.
Green - Soul - Allows the user to steal, control, manipulate and alter souls, living or dead, and is the gateway to an idyllic pocket universe.
Orange - Time - Allows the user total control over the past, present and future. Allows time travel, can age and de-age beings.
Purple - Space - Allows the user to exist in any or all locations, move any object anywhere throughout reality and warp or rearrange space.
Blue - Mind -Allows the user to greatly strengthen and enhance mental and psionic power and access the thoughts and dreams of other beings.
Yellow - Reality - Allows the user to fulfill wishes, even if the wish is in direct contradiction with scientific laws.
Red - Power - Accesses all power and energy that ever has or will exist, and can boost the other gems' effects.

NorthernPolarity

There is a loose color pie going on in this game:
Red/green/black tend to be offensive powers:
Red focuses on direct damage.
Green focuses on strike tiles / board clears.
Black focuses on attack tiles / AoE.

Blue/Purple/Yellow tend to be defensive powers:
Yellow focuses on anything heal related.
Purple focuses on AP stealing / generation.
Blue focuses on stunning.

There's clearly a ton of bleeding and overlap of the colors (blue/green has AoE damage abilities, yellow has ap generation, etc), but given a completely new ability's color, chances are that the ability would fall under the primary focuses of the colors. As you can see from Human Torch, his red mainly does direct damage, his black has attack tiles, and his green.... uh... 2 out of 3 aint bad, right?