*** Human Torch (Classic) ***

Phaserhawk

yeah, short of his red he's a little lackluster. His black is decent but you are lucky if you get all 8 tiles out, and they are pretty easy to pop. I like green's idea, but unless you have a way to replinish green it can become a liability.

Unknown

entropic01 wrote:

Microtom wrote:

entropic01 wrote:

I went from 0-1100 while hitting multiple maxed HTs and not even losing a single character the whole way w/o a healer. I hope people start leveling HTs so I can smack them around all day every day.

Is there any character that you lose to, tho?

Regularly? No, but there are characters you lose to on occasion due to nasty cascades like OBW or LT. Yes, I am saying I'd rather hit a 141 Torch than a 85 Widow

First saying that you would rather face Torch than OBW isn't saying much. Isn't OBW the most OP 2* in the game? Hell there are like 20 threads about how OP she is. So the fact that she is better on defense is a mute point. And really LT, your going to comare him to LT? Thats only the most OP character in the game. So yes HT is not OP. Personally I take comfort in that, LT is Ragnarok waiting to happen.

Second there are plently of commonly used characters that are horrible on defense. cMag, Cap, etc. Just becasue the AI sucks doesn't mean the character does.

Third team composition is key. Not only who you are using but who the opponent was using too. For example if your using two tanks with good coverage (ie LT and Hulk) and Torch in the Hotshot tourney then no big suprise that you didn't lose a guy because they have rediculous hit points. Or for that matter if your using the cMags or Spidey to ensure the enemy team doesn't get turns, again its not saying much. I too steam rolled in the Hotshot tourney finishing 1st with over 1200 points and winning at least 25% of retaliations. I ran Patch, Hood and HT. Thats a hard team to steam roll with out taking damage. Its all about stategy and lets be honest at least 70% of players don't even think about how their team will perform on Defense.

Unknown

Rorex wrote:

First saying that you would rather face Torch than OBW isn't saying much. Isn't OBW the most OP 2* in the game? Hell there are like 20 threads about how OP she is. So the fact that she is better on defense is a mute point. And really LT, your going to comare him to LT? Thats only the most OP character in the game. So yes HT is not OP. Personally I take comfort in that, LT is Ragnarok waiting to happen.

Second there are plently of commonly used characters that are horrible on defense. cMag, Cap, etc. Just becasue the AI sucks doesn't mean the character does.

Third team composition is key. Not only who you are using but who the opponent was using too. For example if your using two tanks with good coverage (ie LT and Hulk) and Torch in the Hotshot tourney then no big suprise that you didn't lose a guy because they have rediculous hit points. Or for that matter if your using the cMags or Spidey to ensure the enemy team doesn't get turns, again its not saying much. I too steam rolled in the Hotshot tourney finishing 1st with over 1200 points and winning at least 25% of retaliations. I ran Patch, Hood and HT. Thats a hard team to steam roll with out taking damage. Its all about stategy and lets be honest at least 70% of players don't even think about how their team will perform on Defense.

1) You don’t think there is something underwhelming about a character on defense when a 212 buffed HT is less intimidating than a 2*? Your argument doesn’t keep up because I’d rather hit OBW over a lot of 3*s like BP, Hulk, & Hood. Now please don’t tell me you think Hulk is OP too.

2) I said that HT sucked on defense so I hope people level him so I can hit them. In fact my exact quote was “HT is just a ridiculous liability on defense”. I think you’ll have an awfully hard time making an argument that shows that HT is good on D with his low HP, poor use of his green, and an AI that doesn’t take into account whether or not it’s smart to AP drain using black.

3) I don’t even know what you are trying to argue here.

I get it, you like HT. (Hell more than a third of your posts are in this HT thread) I don’t think he’s great. Agree to disagree.

Unknown

entropic01 wrote:

1) You don’t think there is something underwhelming about a character on defense when a 212 buffed HT is less intimidating than a 2*? Your argument doesn’t keep up because I’d rather hit OBW over a lot of 3*s like BP, Hulk, & Hood. Now please don’t tell me you think Hulk is OP too.

2) I said that HT sucked on defense so I hope people level him so I can hit them. In fact my exact quote was “HT is just a ridiculous liability on defense”. I think you’ll have an awfully hard time making an argument that shows that HT is good on D with his low HP, poor use of his green, and an AI that doesn’t take into account whether or not it’s smart to AP drain using black.

3) I don’t even know what you are trying to argue here.

I get it, you like HT. (Hell more than a third of your posts are in this HT thread) I don’t think he’s great. Agree to disagree.

I think you missed the entire point of my post.

Point #1 why compare to overpowered characters? I wouldn't argue that hulk is OP but I wouldn't argue that the Hulk is better. Better on Defense sure but certianly not very good on offense. In fact I would say that the HT is about as much better than Hulk on offense as the Hulk is better on Defense. I mean the Hulk isn't great on defense, how often does he damage his own team when controlled by the AI? Too often if you ask me. Defense is important but not a deal breaker, I mean really given the current game enviroment there are a couple of characters that can enable a character to beat any line up played by the AI. Also remember that at least 50% of the game is PVE.

Point #2 I wasn't arguing that he was good on Defense. I was arguing that their are plently of characters that are horrible on Defense thats still get used regullarly. IE cMags, Cap.

Point#3 The point was that with the right line up his **** Defense wont matter. For example the Patch, Hood, HT line up. Which will cause most players to kill Hood first then Patch by which time HT will have killed characters. And how important is defense? Honestly how often do you see people unshield in the top 10 of an event in the last hour. Rarely. So until the OP characters that can stun lock FTW, make infinite criticals, and win a game with crazy OP damage are balanced I don't see defense as a deal breaker.

Yes HT isn't great on Defense but he is on offense. I would rank him as good overall probablly near Punisher above Psylocke. Yes I like HT but thats doesn't mean my opinion is clouded as I assume your implying.

Also the fact that you burned through the Hotshot tourney using a HT/Patch/cMags combo really isn't an accurate measure of anything considering how broken the cMags/Patch strategy is anyways. Eventually your strategy is going to get nerfed. This also explains why you think Hulk is so great on defense as Hulk is probably the best counter to cMags/Patch being as anger will destroy strike tiles.

Unknown

Rorex wrote:

I think you missed the entire point of my post.

No, I think you missed the point of my post. My original post said I thought HT sucked on defense. Then you went on a tirade about how he makes up for it in other ways. My point is HT sucks on defense. Period.

Unknown

Girls, girls! You're both pretty!

I kid! It has actually been a very interesting exchange about team structuring philosophy.

Unknown

Hey guys, I need to ask. Sometimes, I try to use his black twice, but it didn't work?

Does it only work if there are less than 8 attack tiles? Meaning that if there are less than 8, he will create up to 8? Using twice won't spit out 16 tiles?

If this is indeed the case, then looks like his DOT isn't as good as Doom's...

mags1587

His black always puts the attack tiles in the same place. So if you try to use black twice without moving any tiles around, there won't be any free basic tiles to place the new attack tiles.

Unknown

mags1587 wrote:

His black always puts the attack tiles in the same place. So if you try to use black twice without moving any tiles around, there won't be any free basic tiles to place the new attack tiles.

A few months ago the game made a change that it'll prevent you from using an ability that only places special tiles when none can be placed. Imagine the outrage if someone used it twice and see nothing happening the second time!

Unknown

Rorex wrote:

Also the fact that you burned through the Hotshot tourney using a HT/Patch/cMags combo really isn't an accurate measure of anything considering how broken the cMags/Patch strategy is anyways. Eventually your strategy is going to get nerfed. This also explains why you think Hulk is so great on defense as Hulk is probably the best counter to cMags/Patch being as anger will destroy strike tiles.

Not really -- early game you use hulk to feed green for you, later game you 1-shot his remaining health. And have the alternative to just overwrite the anger tile using Mags.

Unknown

mags1587 wrote:

His black always puts the attack tiles in the same place. So if you try to use black twice without moving any tiles around, there won't be any free basic tiles to place the new attack tiles.

Yep, he places them on circle so you mus look out if those spaces are available. I like it pretty much -- even considering good chance to place 2 less and lose another 2 in short time. The ability is expensive but I have all the control. In Hunt Torch performed pretty well, even if left on his own.

His HP is really a shame -- the overall set doesn't look OP at all, he should have the basic health like Punisher. Or as we said elsewhere use different colors, like replace green with yellow.

Phaserhawk

pasa_ wrote:

mags1587 wrote:

His black always puts the attack tiles in the same place. So if you try to use black twice without moving any tiles around, there won't be any free basic tiles to place the new attack tiles.

Yep, he places them on circle so you mus look out if those spaces are available. I like it pretty much -- even considering good chance to place 2 less and lose another 2 in short time. The ability is expensive but I have all the control. In Hunt Torch performed pretty well, even if left on his own.

His HP is really a shame -- the overall set doesn't look OP at all, he should have the basic health like Punisher. Or as we said elsewhere use different colors, like replace green with yellow.

That's what is insane about Torch. As is, he's kinda meh...great red, **** other skills. But if his green was yellow, OMG he moves into one of the best characters in the game. He becomes a yellow sink and would be a great pairing with Falcon as you could cast your attack tiles then yellow to feed falcon to feed your yellow and pump your black. But sadly they went against colorschematics and made torch green, such a shame as yellow would have made him unique and super playable.

Unknown

HT is a victim of 'green is way too awesome as an offensive color'. Let's make a list of all the powerful green abilities in the game:

Call the Storm
Flame Jet
Judgment
Berserker Rage
Sniper Rifle
Lightning Strike

I can see this hypothetical interview for HT, and you'll be asking what does his green bring, and he'd say something like 'totally decimates the enemy' and you'd answer, 'but so does anyone else's green power' and then you'd show HT the door because just totally decimating the enemy doesn't cut it for green.

Green in general could use a little less love.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Rorex wrote:

Also the fact that you burned through the Hotshot tourney using a HT/Patch/cMags combo really isn't an accurate measure of anything considering how broken the cMags/Patch strategy is anyways. Eventually your strategy is going to get nerfed. This also explains why you think Hulk is so great on defense as Hulk is probably the best counter to cMags/Patch being as anger will destroy strike tiles.

Not really -- early game you use hulk to feed green for you, later game you 1-shot his remaining health. And have the alternative to just overwrite the anger tile using Mags.

The Point is there is really not alot of defense against high strike tiles and cMags infinite turns strategy. However this is still one of the best defense against it, as anger going off will cause the removal of strike tiles. In fact when facing HT/Patch/cMags on defense I would go Hulk/Hood/LT.

Unknown

I think it would be neat if human torch considered his flame jet ability to be 9 or 10 cost +2 or 3 per other flame jet on the board just so this ability is not just a green energy sink for a team on defense.

Also before using his black he should check if other team members have reasonably usable blue or pink abilities to use BEFORE getting drained 30%.

Unknown

How much better does HT get if you take away Spider Man?

Marvelous

So in this current event I'm wondering how to fight a buffed HT? It seems like he just annihilates my team very quickly.. any suggestions on what team to take against the Human Torch and what powers/abilities work best to kill him quick?? FYI: In this particular battle I'm forced to bring along Classic Daken, I only have two covers for him one black and one blue.. I was bringing OBW and Lazy Thor but I'm wondering if I should be taking someone else with me that will work better in killing him off faster.

Unknown

I dunno what level your facing but I consistantly beat the node at around lvl 150ish with obw/2* Thor or ares. Have to boost blue and purple and yellow and red at least to be able to stall his green and then recon, have daken tank black when you know you will be forced to eat some damage and build up yellow red to use one at least twice followed by call of the storm. This is all assuming the board had at least enough blue and purple to get obw off at least once. This should scale into the 200's with lt I assume. Buffed ares is also some crazy damage and can kill him off pretty quick, but it's easier to become color starved without Thor feeding himself.

Marvelous

^^Awesome, thank you.. Yeah I'm currently facing him around the 130ish mark. I typically use OBW currently at 83 and LT at 91 I believe so my strategy is pretty much focus on purple than blue unless there is 4 point pattern or 5 than I'll grab that for the damage, power and extra turn. I must have just gotten unlucky the last time as there seemed to be virtually no purple or blue on the board and he kept dropping cascades of his colors.. and once he gets a jet stream or two going, it's just..... horrendous for lack of a better term

Ryz-aus

3 star magneto is great for that fight - if you can get blue you can just overwrite his green. I am facing around level 220 with buffed ares doing most of the damage.