**** Wolverine (X-Force) **** [PRE 2015-04]

GrumpySmurf1002

MarvelMan wrote:

The prevalence of Thoress has already somewhat neutered SS, as long as she is center/left and you dont have a great red user. Which would be.....? Smite relies on Power Surge as it just isnt that great without charged tiles out, Super Steve's red is slow and doesnt work well with XF, and CMags red kind of kills itself for a second use at only moderate damage although SS to PF can do serious AP cascades.

Cap works fine as long you manage your skills properly. Spamming Deadpool's red at 3300 a clip works too. Those are my preferred options against the 270 twins.

MarvelMan

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

MarvelMan wrote:

The prevalence of Thoress has already somewhat neutered SS, as long as she is center/left and you dont have a great red user. Which would be.....? Smite relies on Power Surge as it just isnt that great without charged tiles out, Super Steve's red is slow and doesnt work well with XF, and CMags red kind of kills itself for a second use at only moderate damage although SS to PF can do serious AP cascades.

Cap works fine as long you manage your skills properly. Spamming Deadpool's red at 3300 a clip works too. Those are my preferred options against the 270 twins.

Good point on DP, I was forgetting his red. Super Steve definitely takes some planning, and I HATE those situations where youre trying to plan 3 turns out to make sure you dont XF his countdown...but you need to off someone with XF because they cascaded AP and if you wait that last turn for the countdown to resolve they will hit you with a skill.

SuperSkrull

As someone coming into the final lap of my 2 to 3* transition, fights against AI controlled x-force intimidate me much less, concentrating on denying black and green tiles and using a heavy hitter is a generally simple strategy. A 270 4hor on the other hand is an instant skip for me. I've also found out the hard way that a high level Elektra can be a slow and painful way to lose, and don't get me started on Fury. The point is 4*s should be as they are and should be the next level to aspire to.

I do feel for you OP as I once was in your position and when you hit the PvP wall it is ****, but due to lucky token pulls (3 covers in one 10-pack was a very good day), I have a lv70 x force at 4/3/1 and have a black and yellow coming up in daily rewards. I'm now actually looking forward to the next transition much more, ISO hoarding aside. You'll get there OP, it's just a matter of time and patience.

JamieMadrox

To be fair, I didn't buy a single XForce cover. I won/pulled/earned every one of them.

I did, however, but some TGT covers, because like Sentry was in the beginning, she's broken and a must to compete at the top levels of the game.

NorthernPolarity

daibar wrote:

I think there's an argument to be made that X-Force is op for a 4*, not just in general. Surgical Strike needs to be adjusted, as it's ridiculous for 11 AP as an offensive skill, and almost as good defensively.

It depends on what the power level of a 4* should be. I think the right place is somewhere between Fury and X-Force, in which case surgical isn't necessarily that overpowered. Really what needs to happen is a 4or nerf before X-Force is touched: it may turn out that X-Force is fine for the new 4* meta if we see character buffs.

Just to give you an idea,
Surgical on 10 tiles is 5k damage. A good ability converts 1 AP = 500 damage, so this is basically 11 black for 8-12k damage on an average team, maybe more maybe less.
Thoress surge into smite is BY ITSELF 1k damage / AP, which is twice as efficient compared to even what is typically considered a good skill?
"but wait NP, that's 19 AP because of surge!" -> not really. Surge by itself stun locks a character so that 9 AP effectively kills the last character, so it makes no sense to count that 9 AP into this cost.

X-Force: 11 black for 8-12k damage once, then the board is dry.
Smite: 10 AP -> 10k damage. Surge: 9AP - Infinite damage.
Now surge / smite wouldn't be absolutely completely overpowered if that was all it did, but considering that surge creates charge tiles which fuels future surges and smites, and now you have a character that has like 2 skills: kill one guy on the other enemy team, and accelerate these two skills. Not to mention she has 16k hp to boot.

It isn't even close. I want to see a ladythor nerf, and buffs on the other 4*s to be around X-Force tier, and see what the metagame is at that point to see if X-Force is too OP. LadyThor is definitely by far the biggest offender.

Changedx

Hi, I'm looking for advice on spending my ISO.

I have a 5/5/3 220 Xforce (spent some HP to get the last green cover) and a 5/5/3 115 Hood.
With 200k ISO to spend, I could bring my Xforce to 270, or split half-and-half: 100k for Xforce to 250, and 100k to Hood to 166.
I'm worried that if I bring my Xforce to 270, I'll be paired against other 270 Xforces in PvP much sooner, and the rest of my roster is not great.
Any thoughts?

GrumpySmurf1002

NorthernPolarity wrote:

It isn't even close. I want to see a ladythor nerf, and buffs on the other 4*s to be around X-Force tier, and see what the metagame is at that point to see if X-Force is too OP. LadyThor is definitely by far the biggest offender.

I'm curious if this opinion changes if boosts were not a thing.

Phaserhawk

Changedx wrote:

Hi, I'm looking for advice on spending my ISO.

I have a 5/5/3 220 Xforce (spent some HP to get the last green cover) and a 5/5/3 115 Hood.
With 200k ISO to spend, I could bring my Xforce to 270, or split half-and-half: 100k for Xforce to 250, and 100k to Hood to 166.
I'm worried that if I bring my Xforce to 270, I'll be paired against other 270 Xforces in PvP much sooner, and the rest of my roster is not great.
Any thoughts?

Just look at the max stats of him and see how much more of an upgrade he is from where you are at to what he would become. The return rate is much lower than it is for a 3*, you have max covers so he is viable, I personally would throw it at some of your 3*'s and slowly but surely upgrade X-Force at this point.

GrumpySmurf1002

Changedx wrote:

Hi, I'm looking for advice on spending my ISO.

I have a 5/5/3 220 Xforce (spent some HP to get the last green cover) and a 5/5/3 115 Hood.
With 200k ISO to spend, I could bring my Xforce to 270, or split half-and-half: 100k for Xforce to 250, and 100k to Hood to 166.
I'm worried that if I bring my Xforce to 270, I'll be paired against other 270 Xforces in PvP much sooner, and the rest of my roster is not great.
Any thoughts?

First question is if you play PvE at all? Because 270 XForce with 'not great' behind it could potentially be deadly, based on evidence we've seen so far.
Second is what are your goals? Consistent top 5 in PvP usually requires him at 270 (plus appropriate shield spending), consistent top 25 does not (220 is more than sufficient).

Unknown

Don't worry, by the time you get your X-Force covers, they will have corrected the problem and nerfed him into being completely useless.

Unknown

SO MANY complaint threads on this forum boil down to exactly the same thing....

I want more stuff....
What do I believe is stopping me getting that stuff?
I will complain about that stuff and say it's not fair....

It doesn't even matter if the stuff being complained about is the EXACT SAME stuff you are upset about not getting. I presume the plan is to cross the bridge of it no longer being worth getting once you get there.....

OFC the cycle is unending. There will always be a best/most effective "thing" which will be used. There will also be players making better use of the system than you BUT you'll assume it's the "thing" making all the difference and move onto complaining vociferously about it.

EDIT: to ensure some context: If you find playing against XForce boring then don't do it. You only need to do so to get top places (to get stuff) since there are enough 3*s out there to bounce your score around ad infinitum and avoid the boring matchup you hate so much. Of course the boring complaint isn't the issue... it's the stuff. No matter what was done to Xforce (or 4Thor, or presumably then Fury, then Patch/Hulk then????) it'll be the same heroes used by top players who will always min-max. So if you don't like fighting similar teams you don't get top places. End of story.

Unknown

Why would you guys even bother replying.

Changedx

Thanks for the advice.

Besides the stats, the prospect of facing a 270 Xforce is psychologically more daunting. And it advertises that your toon is fully covered (13/13).

I do play PvE as well. At 220, I find it hard to stay in the top 25, since I see nothing but 270 Xforces once I hit 600 points or so. I'm not sure if that would get worse if I leveled him to 270.

dr tinykittylove

Changedx wrote:

Thanks for the advice.

Besides the stats, the prospect of facing a 270 Xforce is psychologically more daunting. And it advertises that your toon is fully covered (13/13).

I do play PvE as well. At 220, I find it hard to stay in the top 25, since I see nothing but 270 Xforces once I hit 600 points or so. I'm not sure if that would get worse if I leveled him to 270.

220 is fine. Don't be scared, if you have xf covered, 270 means nothing but a little bit more health and damage. If you can take on lvl overscaled 300+ Ares/Daken/Juggs/whatever in pve a 270 xf is a creampuff. With claws. But a creampuff.

After a certain point in pvp you'll be matched with all the 247/270/270 anyway, even if your xf is below 200. Just treat it as a funny sort of pve sub ending, kill all the high point 270s as fast as you can and shield up.

GrumpySmurf1002

Changedx wrote:

Thanks for the advice.

Besides the stats, the prospect of facing a 270 Xforce is psychologically more daunting. And it advertises that your toon is fully covered (13/13).

I do play PvE as well. At 220, I find it hard to stay in the top 25, since I see nothing but 270 Xforces once I hit 600 points or so. I'm not sure if that would get worse if I leveled him to 270.

Are you shielding, or just not fighting the 270s? Because there's no reason not to do either. Comparatively speaking, the difference between 220 and 270 is like 2k health, and like 35 per tile on Surgical (I forget the difference in green this second). It's nothing in the grand scheme of things.

As far as advertising, at 220, people are assuming you're maxed already. There's a few stragglers out there, but most people that have him above 200 have him max covered. Only people who have him maxed around 150-175 are really fooling people.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Only people who have him maxed around 150-175 are really fooling people.

I've debated taking mine (currently 5/5/3, 166th level) up to a soft cap number like 172 to double down on the evil.

Unknown

I currently have 12 cover maxed 3 stars at level 135 that I am slowly moving as a pack to 166.

I find that this keeps my PvE play competitive and allows me to score 600-700 in PvP. I am planning to transition my PvP endgame team from Hulk/Patch to XForce next season. Any guesses as to how high I can level XForce without noticably screwing up my PvE scaling. I am thinking 150 to 160 should be safe.

Thanks.

Unknown

Levels don't directly affect scaling. If you were using patch before, I would think there would be scaling difference only if you are getting out of battles taking less damage percentage than before.

GrumpySmurf1002

I ran 180 with 124/134/144s for a while and had no issues with PvE scaling beyond the obvious "this node is supposed to be incredibly difficult."

The exact number is anyone's guess, but as long as he's in shouting distance of the your highest 3*, you should be ok.

MarvelMan

One key would be considering whether you want XF to tank or not. If not, watch the damage values closely.