**** Wolverine (X-Force) **** [PRE 2015-04]

Unknown

Maxed XForce can do a lot of damage in a player's hands, but the AI? Doesn't scare me. It's when he's combined with somebody powerful that I skip. XForce + 4Thor or XForce + Hood with 5 blue = insta skip. XForce with just about anyone else, I'll hit 'em.

MarvelMan

benben77 wrote:

MarvelMan wrote:

Or wait for the developers to do what Mau-- suggests.

Please note that they already somewhat have, by adding powers to Doom/Loki and releasing Thoress. It may be a small step, but its in the right direction as I much prefer their boosts/releases to nerfs.

NO no no they dont. X force still dominate everything. It is not about you can/ cannot defeat an X force. It is about the priority you choice to the battle. X force is unchangeable choice. WIll you choice loki / doom than X force ? yes you will only if X force is under cover

It is the problem. I dont see the dev team know or do possible action to change.

Just because you have trouble with XF doesnt necessarily mean he is a massive problem. To me it sounds like you need to revisit your strategy/team make up. I routinely work over undercovered XFs with just 2x 3*s plus the loaner and if I run into a 270 XF, as long as I bring my own 200 XF I leave him for last. And yes, right now I ALWAYS prioritize Loki over XF. Same with Hood, OBW and probably some other chars. I dont see Doom enough to have a good feel for prioritizing him, but in the last Doom PVP I typically did. For 4*s, Thoress is typically more of a concern, due to her higher health pool and having three colors worth of skills that do damage.

rednailz

Switchman wrote:

I still have 55 days until I get my xforce black daily reward. Until then I am stuck with 1 yellow cover. Can't even buy him.

I am looking forward to getting him but also not really. After buying 4Thor I have no need to waste iso on a 3* really. Once I have Xforce I know the game will be boring even though it will be easy to get 3*. There will be no need for 3*. Broken game.

where it gets interesting and variant is the pairings that go with xforce. obviously lady thor is his #1 used partner, but depending on the feature charecter and if the players doesn't have a Thoress then it's interesting.

It also depends on the featered charecter. I loved cage match - xforce free, forced people to do something different.

It's also a gift to find lvl 175 - 220 xforces that are like 2/3/5 or similar.

Unknown

1.There is always a priority and it is not always xforce even if xforce is there.

2. Xforce is a 4*. Just as 3* thor and wolvie are a big step up from their 2* counterparts, there should be a similar step up from 3* to 4*. So xforce and 4or are balanced. The problem is there are not many 4*s yet. Basically, there are two lead fighters and the rest are more support. There will be more 4*s; then, there will be a little more diversity similar to the 3* tier.

3. There is not a significant difference between a level 220 and 270 xforce. Some people just see 270 and are intimidated by a big number.

4. Players consistently beat many more harder matches in pve. It's just in pvp that players suddenly freak out by the same match ups. Also, there is this idea that you are not supposed to lose or get attacked in pvp, and if you do that's unfair. No clue where that came from or the players shielding at very low scores at the beginning of a pvp.

6. If you want to be the best and rank high, you got to beat the best. As much as I scorn the current transition process, players should not feel entitled and that they should be able to dominate pvp in a short amount of time.

7. Xforce is actually good for you. That's what you should be striving for. If you started out the gate with xforce, what would be your incentive for playing the game at all? It's like starting a game with all the gadgets and skills. Sure, it may be fun in the short term. But there's no challenge or sense of accomplishment.

Phaserhawk

Here's the biggest problem at the moment regardless of wether or not guys are OP.

4* are greater than 3*

X-Force and 4hor are the best 4*'s, and becasue they are the best 4*'s and 4*'s are suppose to be better than 3*'s it makes perfect sense why you see them all the time. If you took those 2 out of the game, then everyone would see StarLord and Fury since by definition they are better than 3*'s. It's why you see Hood all the time too.

Where I find 4*'s annoying isn't their skillset, it's their health. If you took X-Force and 4hor, gave them the exact same everything but XF has 6800 hitpoints and 4hor has 10200 hitpoints no one would complain, 3*'s run out of gas when trying to down a 4* which is a problem. If I ran 95% of the character's through 3* Thors Skill set, I'm talking Mjolnir into Thunder into Call of the Storm I'm going to take them down, but not so with XF and 4hor and SL and Elektra, they'll still be standing and now I'm spent and 3* Thor is overpowered for a 3*

Unknown

And, just to clarify: Thor blue into Thor red one-shots...what, anyone in the game? It certainly kills X-Force Wolverine in one hit. If the implication of the thread is that the other 4* characters are too weak; some of them are, and the worst of them is set to be rebalanced. But there are very few, and Thoress is not objectively or strictly worse than X-Force Wolverine. If the implication is that 3* characters should be able to compete on an even field with 4* characters (who are rarer and cost more resources to develop), then that implication is stupid.

In response to the Starlord/X-Force decision...Starlord only shares one active color with Wolvie. An ideally built team might feature both of them. Depending on who your featured tournament team member is, you might leave X-Force on the bench to fix your color wheel. Is X-Force in a vacuum currently the most desirable character? Sure. Is the game played in a vacuum? No.

Unknown

benben77 wrote:

Mau-- wrote:

Someone needs to be at the top, the problem is how big the gap is. Either bring him in line or bring more people up to a similar power level.

the statgies to win is save hp wait to 150 day get 3 color X force and buy to end game?! the gap is too big for any character to catch up

starlord? Electra ? even a 4hor? sorry no

It is generally agreed among the top players I've spoken to that 4hor is vastly better than Xforce.

Just for what it's worth.

eaise

As a 2*-3* transition player I don't know why people complain about X-Force. Is he good? Yes. As a 4* should be. I get attacked by people with XF/4Thor every PvP at least once. Does it suck? yes. But it's also expected. Those people earned/paid for those characters so they can use them. 4* don't need to be nerfed. Seeing how good they are gives you something to work towards. As a F2P it will take me longer than others to get to 4* land but it gives me something to work towards.
As someone with no usuable XF or any usuable 4* I'll be angry if they nerf XF. Then there is no point I'm trying to get 4*. Because then another 4* is too strong and is nerfed. Which makes another 4* the best so he/she has to get nerfed. And the cycle continues.
All that needs to happen is for people to stop complaining about problems that aren't a big deal.
Remember the goon banner. Don't wish for something that will make the game worse

TL;DR
Stop complaining about 4* being strong. They are 4* for a reason

Unknown

onimus wrote:

benben77 wrote:

It is generally agreed among the top players I've spoken to that 4hor is vastly better than Xforce.

Just for what it's worth.

Quoted for truth. More health, and once she gets started with her blue, you might as well call it quits.

Unknown

I think there's an argument to be made that X-Force is op for a 4*, not just in general. Surgical Strike needs to be adjusted, as it's ridiculous for 11 AP as an offensive skill, and almost as good defensively.

Phaserhawk

daibar wrote:

I think there's an argument to be made that X-Force is op for a 4*, not just in general. Surgical Strike needs to be adjusted, as it's ridiculous for 11 AP as an offensive skill, and almost as good defensively.

easiest way to fix it is the AP you steal comes from the opponent, not the tiles on the board.

MarvelMan

Phaserhawk wrote:

easiest way to fix it is the AP you steal comes from the opponent, not the tiles on the board.

As in clear the board of a color and steal all the AP of that color from the opp? Interesting idea.

SnowcaTT

Moon 17 wrote:

4* Thor is no less amazing. X-Force is faster, and more people have him, so you see him more...but that doesn't mean there's some insurmountable gap between the best 4* PvP character and the second best one. I think part of the goal of the slated slew of 4* characters is to generate more characters with X-Force levels of performance. Patience.

Ug, yet another X-force complaint thread.

Moon 17 has it right, and others have said. Completely delete X-force from the game and you'll get 4hor, 4hor, and more 4hor. More people have X-force because he has been around the longest, and there aren't a lot of 4*'s that have been out for a long time - only those who bought them have them right away. IW would be everywhere if she was any good - a re-balance might put her all over the place.

The 4*'s -should- be better than the 3*'s. The bigger problem is that you can see 270 X-force as soon as you pass whatever the milestone is - 550 or so. Perhaps there should be different matchmaking (based on last PVP or total season results, not current point totals?), or different D variables (never seeing same team you skip, perhaps random D thrown out there).

GrumpySmurf1002

daibar wrote:

I think there's an argument to be made that X-Force is op for a 4*, not just in general. Surgical Strike needs to be adjusted, as it's ridiculous for 11 AP as an offensive skill, and almost as good defensively.

The AP gain is really the only OP part of it, and even that's debatable. As a damage dealer it's only doing about 4700 on average (assuming 9 tiles on board).

Smite (cheaper) only needs 2 charged tiles to surpass that.
Fury (cheaper) only needs 3 traps active.
Starlord's purple (cheaper) does that plus AoE, and his red (also cheaper) does considerably more plus has a side effect.

The problem with Surgical, which has been suggested by Phantron, is not even necessarily the AP steal, it's the strongest color condition. That strongly favors fueling the strongest colors, which cascades the damage. Starlord does actually address that in a sense, Surgical steals purple against him. But more to the point, even if you leave the gain and change it from 'strongest color' to 'random color,' you're neutering him enough. Then you can no longer build specifically to surgical into another ability (without going rainbow that is). That would make him just powerful enough to still use (because everyone has him), but weak enough that people can shift their focus on Rags...er...Spidey...er....cMags....er...Sentry....er... Xforce.....er....4Thor....er....whoever is next.

djpt05

I found it odd how often I see 2* transition players with a ~170ish X-force.

Weird to see them plus 2* Mags or Ares with him

Unknown

I don't disagree that on offense 4Thor is vastly superior to anyone else. But XForce is still the character everyone plays in the mid-top range that I come across.

Reasons-

Available covers - 2 in Seasons, 3 in Daily rewards (150-180), many more token and top1 opportunities
Idiot proof - AI cannot screw up on defense.
Great teammate - drop 11 black for serious damage, plus setting up another power.

Personally, I will take on XF-4Thor at 270, but will skip XF-Fury at 270 only because I have never seen the AI play blue then red

Arondite

Dude is complaining that #2 is op but hasn't said anything about #1 lmfao

Thoress can solo X-Force and anyone you wish to partner him with (even another Thoress). Meanwhile, X-Force is the best and fastest single-target eliminator in the game... But it will still take him longer to do that twice than it will take Thoress to pop two of your guys simultaneously.

X-Force's ability shines so brightly because he can blip the weakest member of the team out of the fight so quickly, putting Thor in a position she shines - eliminating two foes at once.

X-Force is honestly perfectly fine. If Thor gets nerfed he'll still be incredibly useful, but not overwhelming. If more Thors come out, X-Force will fade away a bit. He's actually pretty fair.

Unknown

I personally dont think he is OP. I think he is what he should be. I see plenty of diversity in PVP...until I get to the top 25 then yes...no surprise there, most people have the best covers in the game....so you see...its actually working as intended. Why would anyone else use inferior covers to try and be the best in an event? If its too boring...then you can simply not play...I know...an original idea, but I know I don't continue to play mobile apps that are just boring, I delete them immediately.

Also, the thing that really enhances these 4 stars powers are boosts....they make a 4 star roster with the advantage and makes it a near automatic win versus any except an equal defensive team. They need to either eliminate boosts or allow defenses to set boosts and draw iso each defense they have...but again, if you haven't transitioned to 4 star land yet, that just makes it even tougher for you, because I know my max xforce/hood/featured gets wiped out all the time by 3 stars and often times 2 stars as well, don't know how that would change if my defense could start with boosts. Absent boosts, you'd be surprised how long a battle could take if the board is being stingy, even with the notorious xforce. My climb to "the wall" rarely is met with a loss, maybe 1 or 2 until I get to 600-700. I don't use boosts on the climb, when I do hit the wall, I use boosts, otherwise the battle between these 4 stars are pretty equal.

MarvelMan

The prevalence of Thoress has already somewhat neutered SS, as long as she is center/left and you dont have a great red user. Which would be.....? Smite relies on Power Surge as it just isnt that great without charged tiles out, Super Steve's red is slow and doesnt work well with XF, and CMags red kind of kills itself for a second use at only moderate damage although SS to PF can do serious AP cascades.

GrumpySmurf1002

papa07 wrote:

Personally, I will take on XF-4Thor at 270, but will skip XF-Fury at 270 only because I have never seen the AI play blue then red

Because of the color order, if it had enough AP for both, it will always use Smite before Power Surge. Only way it would ever fuel the combo is power surge - match enough red - following turn Smite.

Ditto XForce, he'll never surgical immediately into anything except possibly a cascaded team-up. Whatever AP is acquired will launch the following turn.

That does make Fury's yellow dangerous, it will always launch before other colors are potentially drained. Also makes Starlord's yellow dangerous, as it'll launch before his red or purple, potentially making both cheaper.