**** Wolverine (X-Force) **** [PRE 2015-04]

NorthernPolarity

Bladejay wrote:

I'm still having trouble determining what is the "enemy team's strongest color." The metrics described in this forum seem to work most, but not all of the time. It's very frustrating when it procs on a color you didn't expect or plan for. For example, I was fighting a lvl 83 Colossus, lvl 172 Wolvy (X-Force) and lvl 166 Spider-Man. My expectation with the initial setup and based on overall level was that the strongest color would be Wolvy's green. Instead the Surgical Strike went for the yellow tiles which would be Spider-Man's strongest color. Can anyone offer guidance here?

In game, click on the enemy hero, which will pull up a stat sheet showing you their tile match damage strengths. Cycle through all 3 heroes (using the left/right arrows in that screen), and just look for the guy with the highest match damage, and thats your color. If the colors are tied then its messy, you need remember what characters started in what position (I think middle -> left -> right or something like that determines tie breakers).

Phaserhawk

Bladejay wrote:

I'm still having trouble determining what is the "enemy team's strongest color." The metrics described in this forum seem to work most, but not all of the time. It's very frustrating when it procs on a color you didn't expect or plan for. For example, I was fighting a lvl 83 Colossus, lvl 172 Wolvy (X-Force) and lvl 166 Spider-Man. My expectation with the initial setup and based on overall level was that the strongest color would be Wolvy's green. Instead the Surgical Strike went for the yellow tiles which would be Spider-Man's strongest color. Can anyone offer guidance here?

Because a 4* doesn't outstrip tile damage of 3*'s until about level 220. So Spidey's yellow was 79 tile strength, X-Force green was probably around 73 when you X-Forced him, Spidey had the strongest color. If those two would have both been 79, then it woudl have gone to the front, left, right to determine who takes precedent.

Highdark

Moral wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Demolira wrote:

I'm not sure about stunning then matching, but using Lazy Cap's blue to stun while knocking out the heal tile did not trigger the tile destruction.

Overwrites aren't considered matching.

Redwing taking out the healing was not matching.

Matching the Redwing tile next turn did set it off.

I cannot tell if that is bugged or working as intended.

Ya i had the same bug.I put down my heal cd tile like a tard. Redwing immediately took my yellow tile then they matched it proccing damage on me! Pretty sure just a bug. Gotta be sure and report it

eidehua

http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=552&start=140#p217318
^Details about the middle/left/right for tie breakers. Strongest color = strongest tile match damage color -- so of course a level 166 spidey gets his yellow instead of a 170 some xforce (4* scale slower in tile damage)

When the devs say strongest color is determined by middle > left > right, that is from the view of the select screen, not the boost screen, where it would be left > middle> right. In addition strongest color is determined by who is still up when you cast the skill.

So just look at the enemy team on the boost screen, ties will be determined left > middle > right.

Unknown

I just encountered a bug(?) on the X-Force/Fury/LThor node in The Gauntlet Finale. X-Force had about 2k health left, and cast Recovery. I used Cap's star-spangled avenger to replace his yellow cd tile with my red cd tile. On the next turn, X-Force matched my red cd tile (because it was near some red tiles) and for some reason the animation for Recovery appeared... but X-Force died I'm sure that X-Force was the one who made the match since Fury was already dead and Thor was stunned during that time. I did not take any damage when Recovery triggered. I'm thinking it could either be: a) his supposed heal became a reverse heal and damaged him for the supposed heal amount or b) the damage from the 9 tiles destroyed (the tile destruction still triggered) was done to him instead of me which caused him to die

atomzed

After playing extensively with a 553 xforce from level 170 to 205, I will say he is one of my fave character.

No doubt, xforce is strong, very strong. With 5 green and a level of only 170+, he is doing around 3k dmg. With the destroyed tiles and corresponding cascade, he can reach up to 4k to 5k with only 9 green. And because he clears so many tiles, you can remove those pesky CD tiles or special tiles too.

Surgical strike is also now my fave black ability. It is not as mindless as I assume it to be. I will check the strongest color of the team, check the number of color tiles on board, decide whether I want those color. Sometimes I will kill off one character, say killing off the char who caused the team to have red as dominant color, so that the team dominant color change to green. I also change my team composition, so that I can utilise those AP gained. Both lthor and Lcap pairs well as they can utilise blue, yellow and red AP.All this decisions make surgical strike, a truly strategic ability.

The yellow is a bonus, and is more important on defence than on offence. Having an enemy x force activate the heal and get back to full health is a bad idea. The longer he stays alive, the more chance he can cause havoc with his green and black ability.

Truly befitting of a 4*. Thumbs up to D3!

Unknown

atomzed wrote:

After playing extensively with a 553 xforce from level 170 to 205, I will say he is one of my fave character.

No doubt, xforce is strong, very strong. With 5 green and a level of only 170+, he is doing around 3k dmg. With the destroyed tiles and corresponding cascade, he can reach up to 4k to 5k with only 9 green. And because he clears so many tiles, you can remove those pesky CD tiles or special tiles too.

Surgical strike is also now my fave black ability. It is not as mindless as I assume it to be. I will check the strongest color of the team, check the number of color tiles on board, decide whether I want those color. Sometimes I will kill off one character, say killing off the char who caused the team to have red as dominant color, so that the team dominant color change to green. I also change my team composition, so that I can utilise those AP gained. Both lthor and Lcap pairs well as they can utilise blue, yellow and red AP.All this decisions make surgical strike, a truly strategic ability.

The yellow is a bonus, and is more important on defence than on offence. Having an enemy x force activate the heal and get back to full health is a bad idea. The longer he stays alive, the more chance he can cause havoc with his green and black ability.

Truly befitting of a 4*. Thumbs up to D3!

Why level 205? diminishing return after 205?

atomzed

MikeyMan wrote:

atomzed wrote:

After playing extensively with a 553 xforce from level 170 to 205, I will say he is one of my fave character.

No doubt, xforce is strong, very strong. With 5 green and a level of only 170+, he is doing around 3k dmg. With the destroyed tiles and corresponding cascade, he can reach up to 4k to 5k with only 9 green. And because he clears so many tiles, you can remove those pesky CD tiles or special tiles too.

Surgical strike is also now my fave black ability. It is not as mindless as I assume it to be. I will check the strongest color of the team, check the number of color tiles on board, decide whether I want those color. Sometimes I will kill off one character, say killing off the char who caused the team to have red as dominant color, so that the team dominant color change to green. I also change my team composition, so that I can utilise those AP gained. Both lthor and Lcap pairs well as they can utilise blue, yellow and red AP.All this decisions make surgical strike, a truly strategic ability.

The yellow is a bonus, and is more important on defence than on offence. Having an enemy x force activate the heal and get back to full health is a bad idea. The longer he stays alive, the more chance he can cause havoc with his green and black ability.

Truly befitting of a 4*. Thumbs up to D3!

Why level 205? diminishing return after 205?

Partly diminishing returns. Partly because I'm iso starved now. Also, some people like phantron has commented that it's better to cap xforce level such that he doesn't become the dominant color, as it's more advantageous against another xforce in defence.

I haven't decided whether I want to still put iso in him. Will consider along the way.

MattC02

I'm not sure whether this was intended or an oversight, but whenever recovery is matched by the enemy team all the damage that comes from the tile cascade impacts my team, and not the enemy team. I shouldn't get damaged by the benefits of my own tile going off. I've placed the tile more than once only to have it kill me instead if heal me or damage the enemy.

Seems like an oversight, but would love to know if this was intended. If an oversight would love to see it fixed in the next patch

Unknown

I'm thinking the black needs to be changed so that the last cover lets you select the top 2 strongest color but does not generate AP. Yes it takes some skill to use Surgical Strike but unless their strongest color is purple or blue it's really not that hard to funnel it into another color.

I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but I finally noticed that the tiebreaker on the actual combat screen is just left to right on the enemy's ability list. For some reason it never occured to me that the featured character was always on the leftmost spot on that chart which correspond to the center position on the character selection screen. Can't believe it took me that long to notice this.

iamxzo

Dude, u get matched tiles dmg, enemies got skill dmg so it's not a bug but bad luck, you can match it aswell so they will get dmg,

Anyway, I found something strange in this skill, I just matched yellow recovery tile and I saw animation of disappearing tiles, and one of the animated tile were in place I matched, I mean there were no tile to be destroyed, so I'm not sure if that is bug or not.

Cragger

I think that in the scenario that you are describing (opponent matches your X-Force countdown tile) things should happen in the following order:
-Wolverine heals a fraction of what he otherwise would have, say 20%.
-Wolverine destroys the tiles as described.
-Cascades happen and likely damage you.
-The turn ends.

As of now, I've honestly used it more often as a direct damage effect. Great board shakeup, decent damage at high levels, maybe some health if it doesn't go off (X-Force is still guilty of prologue healing).

Unknown

Also noting that stunning an enemy doesn't seem to change their strongest tile color.

Thought it would, so was slightly disappointed.

Unknown

Does anyone have a link to info for xforce's stats by level? Having a difficult time finding that info.

I want to see where exactly his benefit tapers off. Most of what I've been hearing is in the 230 range, but I want to know if it's actually linear to 270 or if there is a true taper-off.

simonsez

AJBCLF wrote:

Does anyone have a link to info for xforce's stats by level? Having a difficult time finding that info.

I want to see where exactly his benefit tapers off. Most of what I've been hearing is in the 230 range, but I want to know if it's actually linear to 270 or if there is a true taper-off.

I'm not sure if anyone's compiled this data, but if you go into the PvP, you'll quickly get a large sample of XForce data covering a wide range of levels, and you'll see how it tapers.

Unknown

X Force's HP/match damage scales roughly like a tanky 3* at the end of level 270, so that means the 200 levels you level up get is roughly the same as the 126 levels for a 3*, so your HP/match damage gain is about halved.

X Force's ability damage increases very little as a function of leveling up. It's roughly doubled from level 70 to 270, which is way below a 3* even factoring the difference in levels (a level 166 3*'s ability damage is a lot more than 4 times that of a level 40 3*). This is true for all 4*s in general, which means covers are far more important than levels on them.

Phaserhawk

Not to mention you don't really want to take a 4* past lvl 221 since after that point they will begin tanking highest color no matter what. At 221 you get maxed stats while keeping tile strength at same level as a 3*. When we have a few more playable 4*'s then that may change, but I"m not plannin gon taking my X-Force past lvl 221

atomzed

Phaserhawk wrote:

Not to mention you don't really want to take a 4* past lvl 221 since after that point they will begin tanking highest color no matter what. At 221 you get maxed stats while keeping tile strength at same level as a 3*. When we have a few more playable 4*'s then that may change, but I"m not plannin gon taking my X-Force past lvl 221

Ah so 221 is the magic number. I am still feeding iso to him with a look out for his tile strength. Planning to do the same as you. In addition to wanting to put my hulk and CM in harm's way, xforce is also still as strong at the current level. As long as he is appropriately covered, he's still a beast at level 210+.

Phaserhawk

atomzed wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Not to mention you don't really want to take a 4* past lvl 221 since after that point they will begin tanking highest color no matter what. At 221 you get maxed stats while keeping tile strength at same level as a 3*. When we have a few more playable 4*'s then that may change, but I"m not plannin gon taking my X-Force past lvl 221

Ah so 221 is the magic number. I am still feeding iso to him with a look out for his tile strength. Planning to do the same as you. In addition to wanting to put my hulk and CM in harm's way, xforce is also still as strong at the current level. As long as he is appropriately covered, he's still a beast at level 210+.

Yes and no 221 is the Magic number. If you want X-Force to never tank green no matter the position as long as you have a character with strongest green on your team then yes, 221 is the number. If you want to take a 4* up to 3* tile strength stats then you can go up some levels
Then from level 222 to 225 4*s have same tile stats as 3*'s
then from level 226 to 229 4*s 3rd strongest color is more than a 3*'s 3rd strongest color
from level 230 to 233 the 4's 2nd stronget color is more than a 3*'s second strongest color
from level 234 on then a 4* has higher tile strength in their 3 main colors over a 3 star

So you do have a few areas to choose from but as Phantron said, 4*'s have diminishing returns as they go up compared to 3*'s, I have 2 guys in my alliance who leveled their X-Forces up to 250 and aren't too happy about it because they lost a lot of flexibility in character compositions, and didn't get that much of a power increase.

I'm probably aiming at 221 but might push to 225 just to put him on par with tile strength with other 3*'s and make it easy for me to remember insteading having to try and figure out how X-Force will react in certain situatons. The biggest positive though of keeping X-Force at 221 is in mirror matches he won't be the strongest color ever so if you get surgical struck you won't feed them green, to get X-Forced back in the face. But I highly recomend not ever going past 225 until you have a more developed roster or they release some more 4*'s otherwise you lose a lot of character interactions

simonsez

Phaserhawk wrote:

I have 2 guys in my alliance who leveled their X-Forces up to 250 and aren't too happy about it because they lost a lot of flexibility in character compositions, and didn't get that much of a power increase.

I kinda get what your saying, but I'm not really sure why having him tank is that bad, since he can heal. I totally get not wanting green to be the best color in a mirror match, but except for cases like Hulk and Marvel, where you get a benefit out of the damage they take, what other flexibility is lost from raising him to a higher level?