Thank god cupcakes are gone

ZeroKarma

Dauthi wrote:

ZeroKarma wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Official forums or not, why don't you ask the devs if they want their players using line to get an advantage? Do you think they intend their players to play that way? I'll try to save you the trouble and find the quote straight from one where they state they consider coordinated hopping a non-punishable exploit. This means while they won't punish you, they would prefer you to not do it.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32366&p=403097#p403079

Official forum post from a dev or not, Dauthi, you would have to be 100% unaware of how much money that LINE has made for this game to think that devs are at all against out-of-game communication.

The top spenders in this game are on LINE. They coordinate EVERY DAY to spend money on this game in large volumes. This would never happen without the use of LINE or some other form of communication.

The post is a purist post that I would make myself with my fingers crossed behind my back to preserve some sense of integrity in this game if I were personally invested in it, and wanted to appease a portion of the player base. But if you seriously think that the devs would eliminate 75% percent of their revenue to keep the game "clean"???? C'mon man.

What about players coming back to the game because they are fixing characters and removing exploits? What about retaining players because they are doing these things? I'm not going to pull numbers out of nowhere like that, but it has value that can't be determined.

I think the removal of cupcakes confirms this. While they can never control out of game communication, and maybe they don't care that it continues, but at least they can nerf specific benefits from it when they get out of hand or disproportionate compared to other uses for this app.

D3 is a business. They do things for business reasons. Yes, some of these changes were made to bring people back and encourage further spending. Some changes were made to protect existing spending. None of them were made for the sake of integrity.

Now, you could make the argument that people are now spending more money because cupcakes are gone. I would argue that is not the case based on feedback from people on LINE and the forums. I have seen rage quits and threats to reduce spending, but none of the proponents have stated that they will now start buying Starks every week. None. No promise of investment. As mentioned previously the zombie horde mostly doesnt even know these things exist, right? So they aren't at risk. My assumption is there was a significant line of income to D3 that was threatened.

I will bring a parallel situation. The exploit on the 5* draws. This exploit had to be stomped because 5* are the largest money maker the company has. It had to be stopped!!!

But, many of the exploiters? Also, some of the biggest spenders. Seems that there was a way to come back to the fold in that case.

The company makes decisions in a cynical manner, and normally with the bottom line in mind. Let's not pretend otherwise. They are an app developer and not real-life equivalents of the heroes they bring to the game.

This is not a knock on the devs by the way. It is what I expect of a business, and their decisions have kept this game afloat and sucking up my iTunes gift cards for quite a while.

Dauthi

ZeroKarma wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

ZeroKarma wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Official forums or not, why don't you ask the devs if they want their players using line to get an advantage? Do you think they intend their players to play that way? I'll try to save you the trouble and find the quote straight from one where they state they consider coordinated hopping a non-punishable exploit. This means while they won't punish you, they would prefer you to not do it.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32366&p=403097#p403079

Official forum post from a dev or not, Dauthi, you would have to be 100% unaware of how much money that LINE has made for this game to think that devs are at all against out-of-game communication.

The top spenders in this game are on LINE. They coordinate EVERY DAY to spend money on this game in large volumes. This would never happen without the use of LINE or some other form of communication.

The post is a purist post that I would make myself with my fingers crossed behind my back to preserve some sense of integrity in this game if I were personally invested in it, and wanted to appease a portion of the player base. But if you seriously think that the devs would eliminate 75% percent of their revenue to keep the game "clean"???? C'mon man.

What about players coming back to the game because they are fixing characters and removing exploits? What about retaining players because they are doing these things? I'm not going to pull numbers out of nowhere like that, but it has value that can't be determined.

I think the removal of cupcakes confirms this. While they can never control out of game communication, and maybe they don't care that it continues, but at least they can nerf specific benefits from it when they get out of hand or disproportionate compared to other uses for this app.

D3 is a business. They do things for business reasons. Yes, some of these changes were made to bring people back and encourage further spending. Some changes were made to protect existing spending. None of them were made for the sake of integrity.

Now, you could make the argument that people are now spending more money because cupcakes are gone. I would argue that is not the case based on feedback from people on LINE and the forums. I have seen rage quits and threats to reduce spending, but none of the proponents have stated that they will now start buying Starks every week. None. No promise of investment. As mentioned previously the zombie horde mostly doesnt even know these things exist, right? So they aren't at risk. My assumption is there was a significant line of income to D3 that was threatened.

I will bring a parallel situation. The exploit on the 5* draws. This exploit had to be stomped because 5* are the largest money maker the company has. It had to be stopped!!!

But, many of the exploiters? Also, some of the biggest spenders. Seems that there was a way to come back to the fold in that case.

The company makes decisions in a cynical manner, and normally with the bottom line in mind. Let's not pretend otherwise. They are an app developer and not real-life equivalents of the heroes they bring to the game.

This is not a knock on the devs by the way. It is what I expect of a business, and their decisions have kept this game afloat and sucking up my iTunes gift cards for quite a while.

I can't really approach this because I am not their accountant and can't gauge their top 1% spenders vs everyone else. I don't believe you are either, so I don't feel like this would really go anywhere. All I can say is when you make a good game, people will play it and it will make money. Developers, lets say like Blizzard, don't make their money by allowing exploits because their top spenders don't like that they fixed it. They fix them because it nurtures a healthy competitive environment.

I do acknowledge that they let cheaters back in the game because they spent money at some point in their game. It is another one of the many reasons I left.

grunth13

Don't let the devs act like they don't like line, because they use line to communicate with the moderators. They also have done special rooms where they buy everyone cp. So out of game communication is blessed by devs as long as they are in control of it.

Nylarx

I did not bother reading all 9 pages of this discussion, only the first and last page.

There are a lot of passionate people for and against cupcakes, and we can all argue till our faces are blue, but the truth of the matter is that cupcakes are gone and progression has been lowered to compensate. Has it been lowered enough? Only time will tell - maybe D3 will see their data on people reaching progression and lower it further.

I do urge the forumites to be civil and courteous to one another - do not let your passions get the better of you.

Ding

I for one am still hoping all those people that took advantage of cupcakes will get their rosters rolled back for taking advantage of that glitch. Not a glitch you say, clearly you are wrong, as D3 as removed the possibility of continuing the practice and stated that it was an unplanned for side effect of the system. Of course those rollbacks wouldn't be necessary if all those people that said they'd quit if D3 removed cupcakes from the system actually did quit, but nobody expected anybody that would use underhanded tactics to be honest in the first place.

Quebbster

Ding wrote:

I for one am still hoping all those people that took advantage of cupcakes will get their rosters rolled back for taking advantage of that glitch. Not a glitch you say, clearly you are wrong, as D3 as removed the possibility of continuing the practice and stated that it was an unplanned for side effect of the system. Of course those rollbacks wouldn't be necessary if all those people that said they'd quit if D3 removed cupcakes from the system actually did quit, but nobody expected anybody that would use underhanded tactics to be honest in the first place.

Glitches are unintentional. Cupcakes exploited the system that was put in Place, but it was no glitch. It was just gamers gaming the system, as they are wont to do.
I don't really see a rollback happening because I can't quite see how it would be implemented. How exactly would you determine what ISO was used where, for example?

Astralgazer

Please name one, just one, MMO whether in this universe or the next one, that can build longevity for their game by selling exploits. The biggest and greatest MMOs nurture their longevity by building a healthy and "fair" (as close as they can be) game. I understand that fairness is the tiniest of kittens word in MMO. It's the ultimate curse. Get fair, or get kitten up, that is the mantra of every successful long running MMO. Look for what the internet gurus say about fairness in MMO.

But again, fairness is a difficult concept to grasp; especially with the feeling of entitlement that has permeated all those chefs and fine diners. Is "slugging it out and bleed together" fair? Or is "join us, or be left in the dust" fairer? I won't pretend I know.

What makes the debate rage on is the sense of entitlement on both sides. One side feels they are entitled to 1.3k they're used to have; while the other feels they are entitled to equal footing for everyone. Can we make a system in which every player is entitled that 1.3k (or now 1.2k) progression reward? Maybe not in this universe.

Many people threatened to rage quit. But are you enjoying the game, or just enjoying getting covers? Do you just want it easy? There are reasons why people love the Dark Soul series, despite dying every 5 minute on it. There's the real sense of accomplishment in beating a really hard game; you prove to yourself that you are really, really skillful. Do any of you remember how hard the Prologue was? Beating Venom in those nodes felt like a real progress for me, way back when. Don't you feel victorious after beating that very last node of Gauntlets, especially when you don't have championed Rhulk? I only got to three nodes away from that last one, but this is a truly massive progress for me; considering that in that Gauntlets before the last one, I couldn't even finish the second leg.

So let's take a deep breath, and believe that D3 is trying to find a way that would make their game successful in the long run. It's business as usual, but business can be short sighted or far sighted. Let's hope D3 is a far sighted one.

OneLastGambit

Cupcakes are a very divisive topic.

Its also now a redundant topic. The people who used it who are now raging about it's loss should engage in the only behaviour which will both satisfy them and also demonstrate to d3 that they find it unacceptable...quit.

For those who accept it was nice while it was around but now it's time to adapt and evolve they should carry on playing and adapt, I suspect these people are already doing this as the people who are still so angry are people that depended on it so heavily that they are now handicapped without it.

Since the change I've found getting the 4* cover a cakewalk (pun intended) where as before it was a stressful struggle. So for me and pretty much everyone in my alliance too judging by our higher average score, the new system more than adequately compensates for the lack of cakes.

Who says they are gone anyway? Once I watched this documentary called 'jurassic park' and in it this scientist stated "life finds a way"

acescracked

Ding wrote:

I for one am still hoping all those people that took advantage of cupcakes will get their rosters rolled back for taking advantage of that glitch. Not a glitch you say, clearly you are wrong, as D3 as removed the possibility of continuing the practice and stated that it was an unplanned for side effect of the system. Of course those rollbacks wouldn't be necessary if all those people that said they'd quit if D3 removed cupcakes from the system actually did quit, but nobody expected anybody that would use underhanded tactics to be honest in the first place.

Don't be naive. Cupcakes were removed for two reasons only.

1. Too many players were able to hit top progression too easily and were upsetting the bean counters.

2. The 3k to 5k scores were scaring the new players. New players who couldn't even cross 800 thought something was wrong. Newest players tend to spend the most $$ when taken in bulk numbers.

It's buisness...not some righteous sense to remove a "glitch".

The Herald

Don't worry! There are still cupcakes!

People like me!

We're permanent cupcakes X_X

New PvP system has been weird for a transitioning player.

mikelnoe

acescracked wrote:

Ding wrote:

I for one am still hoping all those people that took advantage of cupcakes will get their rosters rolled back for taking advantage of that glitch. Not a glitch you say, clearly you are wrong, as D3 as removed the possibility of continuing the practice and stated that it was an unplanned for side effect of the system. Of course those rollbacks wouldn't be necessary if all those people that said they'd quit if D3 removed cupcakes from the system actually did quit, but nobody expected anybody that would use underhanded tactics to be honest in the first place.

Don't be naive. Cupcakes were removed for two reasons only.

1. Too many players were able to hit top progression too easily and were upsetting the bean counters.

2. The 3k to 5k scores were scaring the new players. New players who couldn't even cross 800 thought something was wrong. Newest players tend to spend the most $$ when taken in bulk numbers.

It's buisness...not some righteous sense to remove a "glitch".

LOL removal of cupcakes did not stop the 3-5k scores. It just made those even more exclusive. Now there's almost a 2k difference between top5 and top 10. If you don't have a champed a couple 5*, good luck. I only have 1 and it is a still a struggle though I'm still pulling 2.8k+. I really feel for those now stuck in 4* land.

ammenell

just wanted to thank you for making PvP unplayable.
ive gone from reaching 1k, even without ccs and then NOT shield because a) didnt care about placement and b) giving points back to ragequiting after a few matches and just stop playing altogether.

I needed a year to have a deep 3*s roster and another couple months to tap into 4* land. then I'm finally able to get to 1k and you guys decide to change it, because reasons.
meanwhile you still have problems in every other corner.

i know it's a free game, but you are an exceptional bunch of greedy tinykitties

ZekeBarrett

And to help clarify why I'm using less shields. Since there's no cupcakes to que, I don't need to shield to protect them. Now I can float longer, hit retals or skip. Thank you d3 in saving me hp and money. I'm sure that wasn't your intention but the new pvp without cupcakes is working for me.

The Herald

ZekeBarrett wrote:

And to help clarify why I'm using less shields. Since there's no cupcakes to que, I don't need to shield to protect them. Now I can float longer, hit retals or skip. Thank you d3 in saving me hp and money. I'm sure that wasn't your intention but the new pvp without cupcakes is working for me.

They definitely balanced this with one specific set of players in mind, and seems to be working optimally for them.

10CP early is probably the lift up in PvP, but possibly the best way to get people catching up is the 4* progression reward in PvE.

Which, WHOOPS, went away with no word on its return.

I think they have a plan. They've just pulled a Classic D3 mix of zero communication and failure to implement properly.

"Let's focus on the 4* game, then give routes to get lower players up to it!"
(Forgets to tell the playerbase, fails to implement half the catch up routes)

Quebbster

The Herald wrote:

ZekeBarrett wrote:

And to help clarify why I'm using less shields. Since there's no cupcakes to que, I don't need to shield to protect them. Now I can float longer, hit retals or skip. Thank you d3 in saving me hp and money. I'm sure that wasn't your intention but the new pvp without cupcakes is working for me.

They definitely balanced this with one specific set of players in mind, and seems to be working optimally for them.

10CP early is probably the lift up in PvP, but possibly the best way to get people catching up is the 4* progression reward in PvE.

Which, WHOOPS, went away with no word on its return.

I think they have a plan. They've just pulled a Classic D3 mix of zero communication and failure to implement properly.

"Let's focus on the 4* game, then give routes to get lower players up to it!"
(Forgets to tell the playerbase, fails to implement half the catch up routes)

PvE clearance levels are supposed to return tomorrow per Hi-Fi.
No explanation given why they weren't in Heroic Juggernaut though.

wymtime

Quebbster wrote:

The Herald wrote:

ZekeBarrett wrote:

And to help clarify why I'm using less shields. Since there's no cupcakes to que, I don't need to shield to protect them. Now I can float longer, hit retals or skip. Thank you d3 in saving me hp and money. I'm sure that wasn't your intention but the new pvp without cupcakes is working for me.

They definitely balanced this with one specific set of players in mind, and seems to be working optimally for them.

10CP early is probably the lift up in PvP, but possibly the best way to get people catching up is the 4* progression reward in PvE.

Which, WHOOPS, went away with no word on its return.

I think they have a plan. They've just pulled a Classic D3 mix of zero communication and failure to implement properly.

"Let's focus on the 4* game, then give routes to get lower players up to it!"
(Forgets to tell the playerbase, fails to implement half the catch up routes)

PvE clearance levels are supposed to return tomorrow per Hi-Fi.
No explanation given why they weren't in Heroic Juggernaut though.

They didn't want to give out a free cage cover to everyone in CL6-7?? They forgot to flip the switch back to clearence levels?
Oh I mean they are taking the data gathered from the previous events to make adjustments to clearence levels that we will see in the near future.

Quebbster

wymtime wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

The Herald wrote:

ZekeBarrett wrote:

And to help clarify why I'm using less shields. Since there's no cupcakes to que, I don't need to shield to protect them. Now I can float longer, hit retals or skip. Thank you d3 in saving me hp and money. I'm sure that wasn't your intention but the new pvp without cupcakes is working for me.

They definitely balanced this with one specific set of players in mind, and seems to be working optimally for them.

10CP early is probably the lift up in PvP, but possibly the best way to get people catching up is the 4* progression reward in PvE.

Which, WHOOPS, went away with no word on its return.

I think they have a plan. They've just pulled a Classic D3 mix of zero communication and failure to implement properly.

"Let's focus on the 4* game, then give routes to get lower players up to it!"
(Forgets to tell the playerbase, fails to implement half the catch up routes)

PvE clearance levels are supposed to return tomorrow per Hi-Fi.
No explanation given why they weren't in Heroic Juggernaut though.

They didn't want to give out a free cage cover to everyone in CL6-7?? They forgot to flip the switch back to clearence levels?
Oh I mean they are taking the data gathered from the previous events to make adjustments to clearence levels that we will see in the near future.

Your guess is as good as mine...

ZekeBarrett

And don't forget they're getting ready to go to NYCC. Remember what happened last year they went?! I sure hope it's not a repeat of last year's anniversary.

GrumpySmurf1002

mikelnoe wrote:

LOL removal of cupcakes did not stop the 3-5k scores. It just made those even more exclusive. Now there's almost a 2k difference between top5 and top 10. If you don't have a champed a couple 5*, good luck. I only have 1 and it is a still a struggle though I'm still pulling 2.8k+. I really feel for those now stuck in 4* land.

From here in 4* land - Cage was way worse than Fist because 4* match damage got eaten, so everything was a grind through 80k of characters. I resorted to Whaling the end cause it was faster to get 12TU or Purple (w/ boosts) than get the 100+AP needed to launch powers to kill everything.

Yes, it sucks but it's not by any means impossible. I think Psylocke should be a lot easier too.

TxMoose

ccs aren't gone, they've just really raised the bar on those who can reasonably beat what can be baked/grilled. if you can't beat a champ 5, they do you no good now. the guys who used to bake loaner/1*/1* now have to bake loaner/3*/champ5*. way to put the screws to the middle class. I do like the higher rank though. that is nice.