Thank god cupcakes are gone

dsds

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

dsds wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

dsds wrote:

It's like 0.0001% of the game population.

This would amount to somewhere around 0.10-0.15 people. I think there were more people than that using the mechanic.

It's about 1300 people. 13000000 is about the size of the player base. Just look up the downloads on playstore and itunes.

The devs have multiple times quoted player participation for PvE in the low 6-figure range. There's no way there's 13M players.

We could argue all day about this magic player base number. I can say that some people exclusively play pve and some play pvp only so at the very least, it should be double that number. Some only play ddq, some skip events and don't do every single one, I can go on. Where is this argument going? You are kinda side tracking from the main argument about cupcakes here.

grunth13

dsds wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Arguing cupcakes are bad because new players can't use them is like arguing that cars are bad because your newborn can't drive.

It's not the same argument. The comparison is more like people shouldn't take a short cut on a racetrack because it isn't a sanctioned part of the track. Just like line isn't really a officially endorsed form of chat for the game.

Line is not the officially endorsed chat for the game, but then again Reddit is not the officially endorsed forum for the game. How come people seem to find more about this game in the last year from a post on Reddit than the "official forum" from the developers?

jobob

Has anyone played many games with a strong social element where there isn't some form of communication that happens OUTSIDE of the official in-game communication?

Every alliance in any online game I've ever been in has used a form of voice chat, or a forum, or something BEYOND what the game sets up. So to me, arguing that "outside communication" and coordination isn't a legit part of the game is just silly.

Dauthi

aesthetocyst wrote:

dsds wrote:

But the likelihood of getting cupcake without coordination is next to zero.

No it isn't. In slices 3, 4, or 5, above ~800pts (where your "visibility" opens up), It was common to be tripping over them. I haven't "coordinated" with anyone in those slices since last year.

A friends of mine played several seasons, baking and taking, and wasn't on LINE at all. And the randoms hitting those cakes definitely weren't on LINE.

From experience from myself and all my alliance members, this is just not true. It was absolutely rare, in fact we would all show off our cupcakes if we ever did stumble across one. Maybe you had more information on where/how to find them?

dsds wrote:

There's 24 hours in a day and a cupcake is out for how long?

Perhaps a minute. But in that minute it's served up to a ton of queues. Players will stumble across it later, at any time during the remainder of the event, whenever they resume playing/skipping. Now consider dozens/hundreds players winning matches with new teams and/or unshielding, multiple times over the course of the event, injecting those new teams into other's queues every time.

It's very easy to know when a cupcake is found. The game reports the hits In a busy slice you'd have trouble playing at times for all the hit notifications popping up.

This isn't even responding to his question though. It doesn't matter if you get it in your queue, you still have to be playing in those few minutes they serve the cupcake and be above 800ish points. I don't know how many bakers there are, but the fact you have a few minutes to stumble upon them while they leave themselves open means you are unlikely to find them at any point during the day, just as he is saying. What you had to do was shield and spend tons of ISO skipping hoping you grabbed one, or, just join the Line chat and get notifications when they are baking.

I don't get how it was so easy for you to get cupcakes, but this isn't my experience at all. Maybe you just know the general time certain bakers play? Maybe you spent more time above 800 then the average vet player, allowing you to see them more often? All I can say is that common is not even close to what I would call a cupcake.

jobob

First, there are certain "hot times" for catching CCs. When you think about the level of coordination required, it should be obvious that CCs are most likely to appear when more people have time to be online... So if you are looking for them at 6 AM Eastern... Probably not a great call.

Also, factor in the shield cool downs relative to the end of the event. CCs require multiple bakers to shield. Again, just think it through.

Finally, since scores went through the roof, the window isn't typically minutes, it's often at least an hour. Remember that bakes rarely happen in a vacuum. It's tough to beat a level 400 feature 3* and 2 575 5* with two level 1 1*s. So most cakes are baked off other cakes. Which means a baker has to be online to catch that cake... And since he's online, he will usually go ahead an bake himself. So what you are left with is a parade of CCs, sometimes for almost 2 hours at a time. Sure, you may only have 90 seconds or so to get a particular CC in your Q, but you have a very large window to catch quite a few of them.

When you factor in the width of the window being an hour or longer, and by default coming at the most high traffic times of the day... I would think a much larger percentage of the player base is exposed to them than what we are estimating in this thread.

Ramble2

Dauthi wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

dsds wrote:

But the likelihood of getting cupcake without coordination is next to zero.

No it isn't. In slices 3, 4, or 5, above ~800pts (where your "visibility" opens up), It was common to be tripping over them. I haven't "coordinated" with anyone in those slices since last year.

A friends of mine played several seasons, baking and taking, and wasn't on LINE at all. And the randoms hitting those cakes definitely weren't on LINE.

From experience from myself and all my alliance members, this is just not true. It was absolutely rare, in fact we would all show off our cupcakes if we ever did stumble across one. Maybe you had more information on where/how to find them?

Where would you share them? Certainly not using non-demiurge/D3-sanctioned out-of-game communication, correct?

Dauthi wrote:

dsds wrote:

There's 24 hours in a day and a cupcake is out for how long?

Perhaps a minute. But in that minute it's served up to a ton of queues. Players will stumble across it later, at any time during the remainder of the event, whenever they resume playing/skipping. Now consider dozens/hundreds players winning matches with new teams and/or unshielding, multiple times over the course of the event, injecting those new teams into other's queues every time.

It's very easy to know when a cupcake is found. The game reports the hits In a busy slice you'd have trouble playing at times for all the hit notifications popping up.

This isn't even responding to his question though. It doesn't matter if you get it in your queue, you still have to be playing in those few minutes they serve the cupcake and be above 800ish points. I don't know how many bakers there are, but the fact you have a few minutes to stumble upon them while they leave themselves open means you are unlikely to find them at any point during the day, just as he is saying. What you had to do was shield and spend tons of ISO skipping hoping you grabbed one, or, just join the Line chat and get notifications when they are baking.

I don't get how it was so easy for you to get cupcakes, but this isn't my experience at all. Maybe you just know the general time certain bakers play? Maybe you spent more time above 800 then the average vet player, allowing you to see them more often? All I can say is that common is not even close to what I would call a cupcake.

My experience has been that people were baking *all the time* in slice 1, 4, and 5. Slice 2 shuts down 24h out as the high point scorers shield to the end, and who the heck knows what goes on in slice 3. Maybe you and your alliance-mates weren't seeing them because you were playing in slice 2 or 3. The number of people baking suggests that while you are unlikely to find a bake from any particular person, you are quite likely to see one from someone. I baked a lot, and it was common to see bounces from ign's that I'd never seen before, and I was glad for that.

But if you were playing in slice 1,4, or 5 - and of course you skipped past the cupcake on principle after you took a screenshot to share with your alliance - and you for some reason didn't see a cupcake, then you probably saw a roster like yours (maybe you're a 4* player, I don't know) that was had a beatable defensive team out and was worth 75 points. "4Thor, IM40, champed featured character, I can beat that," you say, or, "Jeanbuster when neither of them are boosted, bring it on!" And you hit the fight button so fast that you leave a mark on your phone screen. You beat them, you get your 1k, and you shield up or whatever it is you do.

That player is only worth 75 because cupcakes allowed points to trickle down from the 5* players. It was still asymmetric, 5* players always had an easier time scoring more points than 4* players and used less shields to do it, but the points did trickle down. Now that same player is only worth 40 points, and you have to hit three of them once you reach 800 and become a huge target yourself.

Its a different world, and not a fun one.

The Herald

Last Season I progressed really well.

I was recruited into a competitive alliance. I made more minimums than I missed. From just pushing myself and with a pile of help from new alliance members and a slice specific battle chat on like I went from idly Championing 3*s because I had nothing better to do to having 4*s I can work on.

No fully covered 4*s yet, but four of them are usable and a load more are getting there.

Now?

I'm getting nowhere. A lot of it is circumstances, but there are definitely less points out there. Which means progress is harder. Which means my lower level roster is a tasty treat for everyone else.

PvP is absolutely worse for a low end 3* transitioner.

No one arguing about how evil they "feel" cupcakes were, or being smug because it hasn't effected their much better rosters, is going to do a damn thing to help me progress in this game.

Dauthi

Ramble2 wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

dsds wrote:

But the likelihood of getting cupcake without coordination is next to zero.

No it isn't. In slices 3, 4, or 5, above ~800pts (where your "visibility" opens up), It was common to be tripping over them. I haven't "coordinated" with anyone in those slices since last year.

A friends of mine played several seasons, baking and taking, and wasn't on LINE at all. And the randoms hitting those cakes definitely weren't on LINE.

From experience from myself and all my alliance members, this is just not true. It was absolutely rare, in fact we would all show off our cupcakes if we ever did stumble across one. Maybe you had more information on where/how to find them?

Where would you share them? Certainly not using non-demiurge/D3-sanctioned out-of-game communication, correct?

Line of course, but note when I say share I mean show off that we got one. My alliance plays in lots of different time slices, and at lots of different times. Cooperated hopping is mostly impossible since we are a more casual top alliance. We would have if we could, and I'm not mad at others for using cupcakes, but I don't agree they are healthy for the game.

A long time ago in PVP, if you lost the game would note it and throw easier opponents at you. Guess what everyone did? You had top players stomping 1*s. Everyone did it to stay competitive, but most agreed it wasn't healthy for the game.

Dauthi wrote:

dsds wrote:

There's 24 hours in a day and a cupcake is out for how long?

Perhaps a minute. But in that minute it's served up to a ton of queues. Players will stumble across it later, at any time during the remainder of the event, whenever they resume playing/skipping. Now consider dozens/hundreds players winning matches with new teams and/or unshielding, multiple times over the course of the event, injecting those new teams into other's queues every time.

It's very easy to know when a cupcake is found. The game reports the hits In a busy slice you'd have trouble playing at times for all the hit notifications popping up.

This isn't even responding to his question though. It doesn't matter if you get it in your queue, you still have to be playing in those few minutes they serve the cupcake and be above 800ish points. I don't know how many bakers there are, but the fact you have a few minutes to stumble upon them while they leave themselves open means you are unlikely to find them at any point during the day, just as he is saying. What you had to do was shield and spend tons of ISO skipping hoping you grabbed one, or, just join the Line chat and get notifications when they are baking.

I don't get how it was so easy for you to get cupcakes, but this isn't my experience at all. Maybe you just know the general time certain bakers play? Maybe you spent more time above 800 then the average vet player, allowing you to see them more often? All I can say is that common is not even close to what I would call a cupcake.

My experience has been that people were baking *all the time* in slice 1, 4, and 5. Slice 2 shuts down 24h out as the high point scorers shield to the end, and who the heck knows what goes on in slice 3. Maybe you and your alliance-mates weren't seeing them because you were playing in slice 2 or 3. The number of people baking suggests that while you are unlikely to find a bake from any particular person, you are quite likely to see one from someone. I baked a lot, and it was common to see bounces from ign's that I'd never seen before, and I was glad for that.

But if you were playing in slice 1,4, or 5 - and of course you skipped past the cupcake on principle after you took a screenshot to share with your alliance - and you for some reason didn't see a cupcake, then you probably saw a roster like yours (maybe you're a 4* player, I don't know) that was had a beatable defensive team out and was worth 75 points. "4Thor, IM40, champed featured character, I can beat that," you say, or, "Jeanbuster when neither of them are boosted, bring it on!" And you hit the fight button so fast that you leave a mark on your phone screen. You beat them, you get your 1k, and you shield up or whatever it is you do.

That player is only worth 75 because cupcakes allowed points to trickle down from the 5* players. It was still asymmetric, 5* players always had an easier time scoring more points than 4* players and used less shields to do it, but the points did trickle down. Now that same player is only worth 40 points, and you have to hit three of them once you reach 800 and become a huge target yourself.

Its a different world, and not a fun one.

This makes sense, as I stated above we are a more casual alliance, and also an international one. We play at all kinds of weird times and slices. This means that players who have off time schedules weren't getting cupcakes as often as those who played prime time. I did play at prime times occasionally, and while it wasn't common to find a cupcake, I would agree to uncommon instead of rare.

I agree that the tide rose for everyone, but a select group was still surfing high above everyone. While it matters a little less for 4* players, if I were a 3* player I would be pretty upset that other 3* players were sprinting past me using this method, especially if my time schedule didn't allow it.

For the record, when I found a cupcake I immediately started loading my queue because once in awhile I would be able to find one or two more.

Tee

This entire thread is just weird to me. Sounds like the 4* and 5* teams were having a much easier time than I am currently at the 3-4* progression.

In a PvP event.

fmftint

Dauthi wrote:

I agree that the tide rose for everyone, but a select group was still surfing high above everyone.

Maybe you didn't notice but that's still happening. Only its a much more exclusive group "surfing". In Fist Bump alliance 1 was 14,000 points ahead of alliance 2, that's 700 (SEVEN HUNDRED!) points/member

Now let's look at last season's rankings, alliance 1 finished 85,644 points ahead of alliance 2, 8564 points/event, 428 points/member

So now that select group is much smaller, and they are surfing MUCH higher

Dauthi

fmftint wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

I agree that the tide rose for everyone, but a select group was still surfing high above everyone.

Maybe you didn't notice but that's still happening. Only its a much more exclusive group "surfing" In Fist Bump alliance 1 was 14,000 points ahead of alliance 2, that's 700 (SEVEN HUNDRED!) points/member

Are they players who would be at the top even if it wasn't by leaps and bounds though? That is the way I usually look at it. They are going to be there regardless, so who cares if they are there with thousands more points than they would have to show off. If it's not gaining them more progress than they would have gotten anyways, it doesn't bother me. Like I said up there, it mattered a lot when 3*s used it, some for 4*s and very little for 5*s who were top players regardless of cupcakes.

morph3us

fmftint wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

I agree that the tide rose for everyone, but a select group was still surfing high above everyone.

Maybe you didn't notice but that's still happening. Only its a much more exclusive group "surfing". In Fist Bump alliance 1 was 14,000 points ahead of alliance 2, that's 700 (SEVEN HUNDRED!) points/member

Now let's look at last season's rankings, alliance 1 finished 85,644 points ahead of alliance 2, 8564 points/event, 428 points/member

So now that select group is much smaller, and they are surfing MUCH higher

The other point to make is that even though the apparent point disparity is smaller, the gap is just as wide.

An example:

I'm playing CL7, slice 1, Sticks and Stones. My top 5 leaderboard currently looks like this with 90 minutes to go:

1 - 1607
2 - 1426
3 - 1365
4 - 1314
5 - 1284

As it happens, I'm in second. The apparent point differences appear quite small, but a non 5* player's ability to catch up is very, very limited. They might be able to pick up a 50 point queue, but they're limited to one match hops, because a two match hop is very likely going to be negative. So, if number 3 wanted to pass me, they'd probably need two hops to do it, if they were a 4* roster. It's also extremely unlikely they're going to pick up a 50 point queue, because there aren't any other 4* players high enough for them to queue, and MMR won't let them queue the high scoring 5*s, so it's more likely that they'll queue 30 points or less.

People see tighter point distributions, and assume it's a tight race, but it's actually not.

The other point, to re-emphasise what's been said before, is that only 7 people in my bracket have reached final progression. Everyone else is stranded below that mark. It makes no impact on me, because from a purely selfish perspective, it allows me to increase my rate of roster progression over all the other poor guys and gals who can't get the extra CP. It does bother me personally, though, because I remember what it was like to be that 3* or 4* transitioner, and being incredibly frustrated at my lack of progression. Hopefully, as you say, Dauthi, they'll revise progressions down more.

On another note, it makes absolutely no sense that the progressions for CL1-6 are set up to 1200. How the heck is a 1-3* player even going to reach 1200 in a lower CL when we're all playing in the same matchmaking shard?

Dauthi

morph3us wrote:

Hopefully, as you say, Dauthi, they'll revise progressions down more.

On another note, it makes absolutely no sense that the progressions for CL1-6 are set up to 1200. How the heck is a 1-3* player even going to reach 1200 in a lower CL when we're all playing in the same matchmaking shard?

This is uncharted territory for them, so they are likely going to monitor and revise later. Nobody can guess what a reasonable progression will be once points are deflated, but what they know they can't do is put the progression too low then bring it up. Pitchforks, and all that.

They have yet to fully implement clearance levels, and there is a lot they can do there to fix things too. I imagine top scores are so low clearance levels are viable for high level players too? They need to work on it I think ; )

grunth13

Dauthi wrote:

fmftint wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

I agree that the tide rose for everyone, but a select group was still surfing high above everyone.

Maybe you didn't notice but that's still happening. Only its a much more exclusive group "surfing" In Fist Bump alliance 1 was 14,000 points ahead of alliance 2, that's 700 (SEVEN HUNDRED!) points/member

Are they players who would be at the top even if it wasn't by leaps and bounds though? That is the way I usually look at it. They are going to be there regardless, so who cares if they are there with thousands more points than they would have to show off. If it's not gaining them more progress than they would have gotten anyways, it doesn't bother me. Like I said up there, it mattered a lot when 3*s used it, some for 4*s and very little for 5*s who were top players regardless of cupcakes.

So essentially your argument is "I didn't get it so the rest of your middling people shouldn't either." I replied to a post from someone on this forum about 1-2 months ago. They didn't understand how people were getting past 600-800 points as a 3 star roster. I invited them to my alliances bc, and then eventually they became a member of one of the alliances in the KA family. Their scores jumped from 600-800 to about 1.4+. They originally weren't part of my alliance family. I didn't "hoard" the points within the my family of alliances. He was no one we had seen before. I invited him, because it would help his progress. If you want an invite, I will invite you too. The only limit we have is the 500 members that a line group has. The only thing we ask is be courteous to each other, give the person time to shield up after baking, and have fun. Not everyone bakes, but if you can, you should to help others out. That member started baking within 1 month for rosters that were smaller than his. The smaller rosters will have to spend more to get to 1.3 because they can't stay out as long as others, but it was PROGRESS. It was a known commodity. I had a conversation with another forum poster who I was snarky to last weekend and I tried to explain to him, THEIR IS NO COMPETITION in this game. There is no you vs I because you are facing a dumbed down ai just as I am. RNG has stopped too many people's progression, this was 1 way to over come it. We improved rosters by leaps and bounds. Now you say the rest of the player base didn't know about it so its not right...well, I have one thing to say about that IT's THE OFFICIAL FORUM. All people that cared to progress was click on the wheel on the upper left hand corner and click on the HELP button. We have been talking about cupcakes in here for a while. They would have learned from it and asked to join the chat. We would have invited them in. We would have been happy to see them progress. We actually cared. Now, only people that will progress are the select few that will get the 1.2. The extreme bakers and front runners did not gain much out of baking, because they were getting their progression anyways. We burned HP on shields. We burned Iso so that we could skip and find the next cupcake. We burned time with our loved ones. We cared. Jamie Madrox (using him since he is respected) said that when he was in an alliance that does extreme baking, he was burning 1000+ hp an event. Can you find 1000hp in the top of any the leaderboard prizes? I played 1 event where I didn't bake much and I made an extra 5k iso that event because I just hit everything and anyone that I saw. Can you say I made great progress by burning 5k Iso per event trying to get high scores so other could jump off me and get 1.3 progression? Did we do this so that we could get an extra 2 heroic 10 packs that cost 5600hp total? I could have gotten 7 of them for the amount I wasted in shields per season. So if you think we were just looking out for ourselves, that's fine, because we know better. We know we stunted our progression for the sake of others. Yes we get some adulation, but in the end, we saw people who become friends progress properly in this game that relies solely on RNG. That's my last 2 cents on cupcakes, if you get it, great, if you don't, great. In the end, its your loss, because I will get my 1.2 no matter what.

cyineedsn

Dauthi wrote:

Are they players who would be at the top even if it wasn't by leaps and bounds though? That is the way I usually look at it. They are going to be there regardless, so who cares if they are there with thousands more points than they would have to show off. If it's not gaining them more progress than they would have gotten anyways, it doesn't bother me. Like I said up there, it mattered a lot when 3*s used it, some for 4*s and very little for 5*s who were top players regardless of cupcakes.

It actually matters alot for 4*s. With the 5* arms race as it is, plus the super diluted 5* pool in the classic tokens, 4* rosters looking to move up to 5*s need every bit of CP they can get. Cupcakes enabled that. Now? It's still possible for sure, but just look at some of the posts from 4* rosters in this thread and see what alot of 4* players are experiencing.

They will get 10 CP now thanks to splitting up the cp (which was a great move!), and will eventually make it up there. Nonetheless, the uphill climb for people to get their first 5* up there just became steeper, and as more 5*s come out it's just going to get worse. Hopefully though, you are right and this is all in preparation for further progression score and pvp reward tweaks.

amusingfoo1

I'm going to try to put a few thoughts together on this.

As a 5* player, this has really had pretty minimal effect on my play. Initial climb hasn't changed at all, and hops haven't changed much except that they take a lot longer (which is definitely not a plus). And they use more health packs.

Scoring hasn't changed a whole lot for me, but it's definitely heavily depressed for the people who haven't made it to 5* land. It's definitely worse for both 4* players and 5* transitioners. Hops take a lot longer, and that's hell for them.

The part that sucks for me is that there isn't a whole lot I can do to help the smaller rosters. My alliance is built on helping people build their rosters, and my options are limited. I used to do hops just to bake (not every event, admittedly), and help people hit progression, and I really can't do that now. Why did I bake? It was a way of paying it forward for the people who helped me out before I got to this point. Did it help me? Yes, but not in any direct way.

What's good (for me) is that getting high placement is now easier; the top-5 has pretty similar scores, but the second half of the top-10 is a lot lower. Whether that's good for everyone is up for debate.

Do I like the new system? Well, I liked that they split up the cp progression rewards. I like that top-5 get a 4* cover.

But this very much feels like a "rich get richer" system, rather than a "help everyone" one. Darwinian systems are not fun. Maybe for the people at the top, initially, but not even for them, for long.

To be slightly more general about cupcakes, when I first started playing PvP competitively, I was using under leveled 4*s (Cyclops and Rulk, back when they still had their "new character" bonus). I was able to consistently make 1k without any help, but the half dozen or so times that I reached 1300 without being in a shield check room, all involved finding at least a couple of cupcakes.

I remember, back then, someone in MPQU (this was long before I joined) who had basically the same roster as me (same characters at roughly the same level); I was always happy to queue him, because he was always worth a ton and I didn't need a bunch of boosts to beat him. I kept wondering how he managed to be so much higher than me. Now I know. I wonder how either of us would do, these days, with a similar roster. I don't think either of us would be where we are now.

And I must admit that this talk of "should be reaching progression" or "shouldn't be" makes me more than a tad uncomfortable. Because who is any of us to be saying how well people should or shouldn't be able to do?

Dauthi

grunth13 wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

fmftint wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

I agree that the tide rose for everyone, but a select group was still surfing high above everyone.

Maybe you didn't notice but that's still happening. Only its a much more exclusive group "surfing" In Fist Bump alliance 1 was 14,000 points ahead of alliance 2, that's 700 (SEVEN HUNDRED!) points/member

Are they players who would be at the top even if it wasn't by leaps and bounds though? That is the way I usually look at it. They are going to be there regardless, so who cares if they are there with thousands more points than they would have to show off. If it's not gaining them more progress than they would have gotten anyways, it doesn't bother me. Like I said up there, it mattered a lot when 3*s used it, some for 4*s and very little for 5*s who were top players regardless of cupcakes.

So essentially your argument is "I didn't get it so the rest of your middling people shouldn't either." I replied to a post from someone on this forum about 1-2 months ago. They didn't understand how people were getting past 600-800 points as a 3 star roster. I invited them to my alliances bc, and then eventually they became a member of one of the alliances in the KA family. Their scores jumped from 600-800 to about 1.4+.

I could see how you would think this is fair according to what you wrote next. This is more proof that select 3*s were progressing extremely fast compared to other 3*s.

I had a conversation with another forum poster who I was snarky to last weekend and I tried to explain to him, THEIR IS NO COMPETITION in this game. There is no you vs I because you are facing a dumbed down ai just as I am. RNG has stopped too many people's progression, this was 1 way to over come it. We improved rosters by leaps and bounds. Now you say the rest of the player base didn't know about it so its not right...well, I have one thing to say about that IT's THE OFFICIAL FORUM.

You may believe there isn't competition, but what about those that feel it is? Competition to me is progressing faster than others and staying above them. When D3 implements things like clearance levels, I get to use this progress to my advantage while others cannot. That is just one example though, and really whether it is competitive is subjective.

Official forums or not, why don't you ask the devs if they want their players using line to get an advantage? Do you think they intend their players to play that way? I'll try to save you the trouble and find the quote straight from one where they state they consider coordinated hopping a non-punishable exploit. This means while they won't punish you, they would prefer you to not do it.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32366&p=403097#p403079

ZeroKarma

Dauthi wrote:

Official forums or not, why don't you ask the devs if they want their players using line to get an advantage? Do you think they intend their players to play that way? I'll try to save you the trouble and find the quote straight from one where they state they consider coordinated hopping a non-punishable exploit. This means while they won't punish you, they would prefer you to not do it.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32366&p=403097#p403079

Official forum post from a dev or not, Dauthi, you would have to be 100% unaware of how much money that LINE has made for this game to think that devs are at all against out-of-game communication.

The top spenders in this game are on LINE. They coordinate EVERY DAY to spend money on this game in large volumes. This would never happen without the use of LINE or some other form of communication.

The post is a purist post that I would make myself with my fingers crossed behind my back to preserve some sense of integrity in this game if I were personally invested in it, and wanted to appease a portion of the player base. But if you seriously think that the devs would eliminate 75% percent of their revenue to keep the game "clean"???? C'mon man.

Dauthi

ZeroKarma wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Official forums or not, why don't you ask the devs if they want their players using line to get an advantage? Do you think they intend their players to play that way? I'll try to save you the trouble and find the quote straight from one where they state they consider coordinated hopping a non-punishable exploit. This means while they won't punish you, they would prefer you to not do it.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32366&p=403097#p403079

Official forum post from a dev or not, Dauthi, you would have to be 100% unaware of how much money that LINE has made for this game to think that devs are at all against out-of-game communication.

The top spenders in this game are on LINE. They coordinate EVERY DAY to spend money on this game in large volumes. This would never happen without the use of LINE or some other form of communication.

The post is a purist post that I would make myself with my fingers crossed behind my back to preserve some sense of integrity in this game if I were personally invested in it, and wanted to appease a portion of the player base. But if you seriously think that the devs would eliminate 75% percent of their revenue to keep the game "clean"???? C'mon man.

What about players coming back to the game because they are fixing characters and removing exploits? What about retaining players because they are doing these things? I'm not going to pull numbers out of nowhere like that, but it has value that can't be determined.

I think the removal of cupcakes confirms this. While they can never control out of game communication, and maybe they don't care that it continues, they can nerf specific benefits from it when they get out of hand or disproportionate compared to other uses for this app.

I had to reiterate in the other thread too that I am not attacking those using the exploit, I think everyone should do what they can to stay competitive. I think Line is a great way to lead a group on MPQ because their chat is horrible. I also don't think coordinated hopping will change, but they CAN make it so that the impact it has is minimal giving less incentives to do it and make other players complacent about it happening.

ZekeBarrett

I'm actually using less shields than I did when cupcakes were around. Thank you d3 for saving me lots of hp and money! The joke is on you! Lol