Thank god cupcakes are gone

We_are_Venom

PvP scores are actually reasonable now. No more select pvp alliances dominating slices. Feels good.

Dragon_Nexus

I'm still adopting a wait and see approach. I never indulged in cupcaking though I imagine I bumped into a few by accident (I saw one weird one the other week of a loaner 3*, 2* Wolverine and a level 400+ boosted Jean Grey. Guess they didn't want to make it *too* easy). My goal was always to try and hit the 4* cover, which felt very much out of my reach with the 3* nerf and me slowly building up a 4* roster and...having no usable OML. Now the goal is 900, something I hit fairly regularly, I want to see if the change to cupcaking has removed too many points for my old target to remain viable.

If I can no longer hit 900 points comfortably, I'll be a bit upset...

cyineedsn

Ymmv, personally, seems like going for 900 is about as hard as 1k before. If you are going for 1.2k to help transition to 5*s, but dont have any champ/near champ 5*? Welcome to hell about sums it up.

Blahahah

I mean I'm about 102 points or so away from the 900 mark. Feels about as easy as before, but fewer absurd point value targets to eat.

I plan to hit 900 and relax anyhow so hey, ya know? If it works out, it works out.

acescracked

We_are_Venom wrote:

PvP scores are actually reasonable now. No more select pvp alliances dominating slices. Feels good.

Can you give a little more detail in how select alliances don't domiate without cupcakes now?

Those same select alliances dominated the slices prior to the cupcake meta. Big dogs will always eat the little venoms.

Blahahah

acescracked wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

PvP scores are actually reasonable now. No more select pvp alliances dominating slices. Feels good.

Can you give a little more detail in how select alliances don't domiate without cupcakes now?

Those same select alliances dominated the slices prior to the cupcake meta. Big dogs will always eat the little venoms.

I don't think he is saying the heirarchy will change, rather that alliances aren't literal thousands of points ahead of everyone else. He is probably referring to the elimination of skewed scores, meaning more alliances are contenders, not necessarily winners but at least having a chance to climb

GrumpySmurf1002

Lets check the leaderboards - Olympus, Django, BattleCats, MPQU, XmenOne .....yup, totally new world.

Blahahah

Pylgrim wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

The basics of succeeding in PVP has always remained the same.

Thus the leaderboards remain the same.

Yep. Placement was unchanged but progression became more difficult. What an awesome new world we now live in thanks to the death of those evil cupcakes.

I bet it's not like OP actually ever had a chance at competing for placement or cares much about progression. He just had his self-righteous bristles ruffled by what he decided was "wrong".

Making assumptions rarely ends well, especially when it's involving people.

Everyone has seen a cupcake, just because he isn't gunning for top 10 in a 5* dominated meta doesn't mean he is completely inexperienced in the matter.

I usually compete for top 5-10 and even I'm happy cupcakes are gone. I've never seen them as necessary, and I think we might've butted heads on this matter before but I might be mistaken.

But point being, don't be rude and call out people like that. It's rather unkind, especially when it boils down to difference in opinion.

Vhailorx

Blahahah wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Yep. Placement was unchanged but progression became more difficult. What an awesome new world we now live in thanks to the death of those evil cupcakes.

I bet it's not like OP actually ever had a chance at competing for placement or cares much about progression. He just had his self-righteous bristles ruffled by what he decided was "wrong".

Making assumptions rarely ends well, especially when it's involving people.

Everyone has seen a cupcake, just because he isn't gunning for top 10 in a 5* dominated meta doesn't mean he is completely inexperienced in the matter.

I usually compete for top 5-10 and even I'm happy cupcakes are gone. I've never seen them as necessary, and I think we might've butted heads on this matter before but I might be mistaken.

But point being, don't be rude and call out people like that. It's rather unkind, especially when it boils down to difference in opinion.

Pylgrim's tone was perhaps a bit snarkier than necessary, but I think his point is that OP's post doesn't make much sense.

OP is happy that cupcakes are gone because the scores are "reasonable now" and there are no more select alliances dominating the leaderboards.

Re: top alliances there has been absolutely no change. The names at the top of both the individual and alliance leaderboards are exactly the same. The difference is that the gap between the 5* elites and the 4* vets is much bigger now.

Re: scores? What is reasonable? This is a common complaint to which my answer is "so what." Higher scores DO make placement harder. so that's a bit irritating. But placement is much much less important that progression in PVP (at the 4* level). And high scores just help everyone else reach more progression targets. Plus the whole concept of reasonable is subjective and arbitrary. I think there is a lot of "sticker shock" where people who have a hard time floating above 600 see leaderboard scores in the 3k range and think they are doing something wrong (or that other players are cheating). But in the end, those higher scores inflated the scores of the whole slice and the people who only had 600 points could never going to compete with the 5* whales anyway (so to the extent that there was a fundamentally unfair element in the game, it was the freemium structure of the game and not any player coordination). "Reasonable" scores just mean more 4* transitioners spending more cash to reach 1.2k and progress their roster. And that's a real relief, because if there is one thing we can all agree that this game needed, it's longer/more expensive roster progression!

Huatimus

Difference in opinion? I'm pretty sure it's a FACT that the big rosters are still dominating placement. And lowered scores across the board implies that it's harder to achieve progression rewards, so I'm very unclear as to why it feels good?

We_are_Venom

Pylgrim wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

The basics of succeeding in PVP has always remained the same.

Thus the leaderboards remain the same.

Yep. Placement was unchanged but progression became more difficult. What an awesome new world we now live in thanks to the death of those evil cupcakes.

I bet it's not like OP actually ever had a chance at competing for placement or cares much about progression. He just had his self-righteous bristles ruffled by what he decided was "wrong".

I hit 900 no problem. Im 13th in my bracket. Before the change i hit 900 no problem and finished top 50 in my bracket.

Im not even sure what you're so bent about. In my brackets I'd see #1 as high as 4.5k which is ludicrous. Im 200 points from #1 with 10 hours to go. Thats competitve.

The devs decided it was wrong. Maybe you should take your volatility and throw it their way.

I like no cupcakes. I see tighter races to the top. You dont, thats fine but trying to lower me for that is a bit weird.

Blahahah

Huatimus wrote:

Difference in opinion? I'm pretty sure it's a FACT that the big rosters are still dominating placement. And lowered scores across the board implies that it's harder to achieve progression rewards, so I'm very unclear as to why it feels good?

It is fact that big rosters are dominating, that wasn't brought into question.

The skewed numbers have been eliminated, and the difference in opinion comes from "yay cupcakes are gone" and "I preferred cupcakes". That's all

GrumpySmurf1002

We_are_Venom wrote:

I hit 900 no problem. Im 13th in my bracket. Before the change i hit 900 no problem and finished top 50 in my bracket.

There are plenty of people well over double your score out there already. That you got a good bracket isn't really a sign of anything.

Huatimus

Blahahah wrote:

Huatimus wrote:

Difference in opinion? I'm pretty sure it's a FACT that the big rosters are still dominating placement. And lowered scores across the board implies that it's harder to achieve progression rewards, so I'm very unclear as to why it feels good?

It is fact that big rosters are dominating, that wasn't brought into question.

The skewed numbers have been eliminated, and the difference in opinion comes from "yay cupcakes are gone" and "I preferred cupcakes". That's all

Look at his OP first post again. He made 2 statements and one conclusion.
Of which you agree that one statement is factually wrong.

We_are_Venom

Vhailorx wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Yep. Placement was unchanged but progression became more difficult. What an awesome new world we now live in thanks to the death of those evil cupcakes.

I bet it's not like OP actually ever had a chance at competing for placement or cares much about progression. He just had his self-righteous bristles ruffled by what he decided was "wrong".

Making assumptions rarely ends well, especially when it's involving people.

Everyone has seen a cupcake, just because he isn't gunning for top 10 in a 5* dominated meta doesn't mean he is completely inexperienced in the matter.

I usually compete for top 5-10 and even I'm happy cupcakes are gone. I've never seen them as necessary, and I think we might've butted heads on this matter before but I might be mistaken.

But point being, don't be rude and call out people like that. It's rather unkind, especially when it boils down to difference in opinion.

Pylgrim's tone was perhaps a bit snarkier than necessary, but I think his point is that OP's post doesn't make much sense.

OP is happy that cupcakes are gone because the scores are "reasonable now" and there are no more select alliances dominating the leaderboards.

Re: top alliances there has been absolutely no change. The names at the top of both the individual and alliance leaderboards are exactly the same. The difference is that the gap between the 5* elites and the 4* vets is much bigger now.

Re: scores? What is reasonable? This is a common complaint to which my answer is "so what." Higher scores DO make placement harder. so that's a bit irritating. But placement is much much less important that progression in PVP (at the 4* level). And high scores just help everyone else reach more progression targets. Plus the whole concept of reasonable is subjective and arbitrary. I think there is a lot of "sticker shock" where people who have a hard time floating above 600 see leaderboard scores in the 3k range and think they are doing something wrong (or that other players are cheating). But in the end, those higher scores inflated the scores of the whole slice and the people who only had 600 points could never going to compete with the 5* whales anyway (so to the extent that there was a fundamentally unfair element in the game, it was the freemium structure of the game and not any player coordination). "Reasonable" scores just mean more 4* transitioners spending more cash to reach 1.2k and progress their roster. And that's a real relief, because if there is one thing we can all agree that this game needed, it's longer/more expensive roster progression!

Top players and top alliances pvp scores are down across the board. No more cupcakes means no more free point hoarding inside of Alliances which is what was going on. Cupcakes were self serving to the pvp alliances that set themselves up to take advantage of a system in a way that was not intended. Pretending cupcakes were doing the general public a favor is a load of ****.

No more cupcakes means these players actually have to play the game now instead of beating down on scrub teams setup for them. Rather than siphoning off each other, they now have to compete with the rest of the plebs, including the other top alliances.

The binky was taken and im glad for it.

Vhailorx

We_are_Venom wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

The basics of succeeding in PVP has always remained the same.

Thus the leaderboards remain the same.

Yep. Placement was unchanged but progression became more difficult. What an awesome new world we now live in thanks to the death of those evil cupcakes.

I bet it's not like OP actually ever had a chance at competing for placement or cares much about progression. He just had his self-righteous bristles ruffled by what he decided was "wrong".

I hit 900 no problem. Im 13th in my bracket. Before the change i hit 900 no problem and finished top 50 in my bracket.

Im not even sure what you're so bent about. In my brackets I'd see #1 as high as 4.5k which is ludicrous. Im 200 points from #1 with 10 hours to go. Thats competitve.

The devs decided it was wrong. Maybe you should take your volatility and throw it their way.

I like no cupcakes. I see tighter races to the top. You dont, thats fine but trying to lower me for that is a bit weird.

Put simply WHO CARES ABOUT PLACEMENT?!!!!

If you finish #1 out of 500 players you get an extra 4* cover, and a handful of nice cookies (3* covers, a few k iso, 3cp). None of that stuff is bad. but literally .2% of players will get it and it won't make a dent for most people

Easy 1.3k means that as many as 500 people can get 25 CP and a 4* cover. That's actual roster progression because enough CP will eventually turn into 5*s, and CP/LT are the only way to move into 4* land.

There's a very simply cost/benefit analysis here. And the only reasonable conclusion is that players are getting the short end of the stick here. Demi is giving out fewer of the most important prizes, and players get longer, harder matches, and more money spent on #s.

Just what we all wanted!

Ludaa

Vhailorx

We_are_Venom wrote:

Top players and top alliances pvp scores are down across the board. No more cupcakes means no more free point hoarding inside of Alliances which is what was going on. Cupcakes were self serving to the pvp alliances that set themselves up to take advantage of a system in a way that was not intended. Pretending cupcakes were doing the general public a favor is a load of ****.

No more cupcakes means these players actually have to play the game now instead of beating down on scrub teams setup for them. Rather than siphoning off each other, they now have to compete with the rest of the plebs, including the other top alliances.

The binky was taken and im glad for it.

This is not how cupcakes worked. Yes, they did allow coordinating players to climb safely. but that doesn't mean those players were never hit. By attacking cupcakes, players could do 3 or 4 75-point matches and shield before their hits landed. But those hits still landed. And they weren't just from alliance mates.

It's true that baking and Line coordination provide the most benefit for participants. and there is a real debate to be had about what PVP should look like, and what problems exist with the current PVP scoring format.

But that's not the choice before us. The choice before is the old system plus cupcakes, or the new system (which is apparently quite similar to the old system) without cupcakes. And the result is pretty clearly worse since scores are way down and, accordingly, fewer players are actually making progress in the game.

We_are_Venom

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

I hit 900 no problem. Im 13th in my bracket. Before the change i hit 900 no problem and finished top 50 in my bracket.

There are plenty of people well over double your score out there already. That you got a good bracket isn't really a sign of anything.

Of course there is. I dont remember saying otherwise.
The scores are down and i like it. Them having me doubled up is an improvement over having me quadrupled up as was the case before the changes.

I see many simply trying to nitpick in an effort to discredit. Its really peculiar that such behavior is used simply because you guys cant tolerate a difference of opinion.

Blahahah

I hit my 900 mark I wanted, so really yeah not too partial towards placement.

But again, I never saw them as necessary (cupcakes). They were nice when stumbled upon randomly, but I've been climbing PvP 30 points at a time since I was a purely 3* player so going without them isn't much change for me.

Also didn't realize PvP was supposed to be an end game until someone mentioned it lol

SnickerDog

The issue I have with the incredibly short-sighted op and follow up posts is that the points from cc's were NOT "hoarded in alliances". I'm not in one of those top-10 groups, yet every event I would use cc's to climb to 1400-1800 points. If I wanted to spend the money/HP I could go even higher. You make it seem like only those who knew the double secret password could que up a cc. That's not the case.
The Devs decided they didn't like cc. That's fine. But you shouldn't be taking a victory lap. The leaderboard is not going to change. The players that were top 10 last week will be top 10 next week. You're going to finish just like you finished last week. Best case - you bump up a level or two in placement rewards. Congrats on that extra 3* cover. I'm sure that's better than a guarantee to get 25cp every event.