Thank god cupcakes are gone

dsds

Yes maybe there is a net negative gain in shield use. But I don't think it was that negative. People who depended heavily on cupcakes now shield more. But I think the main business decision why they decided to get rid of cupcakes is because people weren't buying tokens. If you can hit 25 cp every 2-3 days, why would you buy the 40 pack anymore?
So maybe the reason they got rid of cupcakes wasn't because of the shields being used, but the amount of 40 packs being bought with hero points. Yes, at the most extreme case, some were using 1000hp on shields to bake. Yet a purchase of a 40 pack is at least 10 times as much. How many people were not buying 40 packs with the hp?

So I would assume because some people were using 1000hp on shields to bake, it probably took away potential of a few 40pack buys because of the following:
1.) The baker spent the hp on shields already, so less likely to spend on a 40 pack. Much more fun to bake 10 times than to get a 40pack?
2.) Other people who ate cupcakes no longer needed the 40 packs so it discouraged buys. Why buy a 40 packs when you could get 25cp and a 4* cover every 2-3 days?

In other words, 1000hp for shields yielded much better rewards for the entire community, than buying a 40 pack even though it didn't benefit the player directly.

Here's the really brief math I did.

Let's say that 10 people baked and used 1000hp each on shields. This results in 60 people reaching 25cp and the 4* cover. That's pretty reasonable right? 10000hp is close to the price of a 40pack. So those 60 people that benefited from the cupcakes, do you think any of them would buy a 40 packs now that they are getting 25CP and a 4* cover pretty consistently every single pve?

Also of the 60 people that benefited, how many would pay it forward and continue the baking trend? So how likely can this cupcake trend snowball into something huge and disastrous in terms of their revenue stream from packs? They cut a little bit of the shield revenue stream to recover the lost of the pack revenue stream and the health pack revenue stream.

Purely business decision.

Stax the Foyer

Dauthi wrote:

The way I see it, nobody should have to go to the forums and stumble upon Line chat information regarding channels that hand out cupcakes so they can gain progression rewards they typically wouldn't be able to land. Even on the rare occasion I stumbled across a random cupcake, I certainly don't feel I should be getting 75 points for beating a 2* team. Can anyone argue this is what the developers intended for their players?

Of course.

Point values have always had a tenuous-at-best relationship to the difficulty of the fight, or no relationship at all. In the current iteration of PvE, some of the hardest fights (fully scaled nodes) net you the least amount of points. 2* essential nodes, despite lower scaling, have an associate premium.

In PvP, the difficulty of the fight has never been taken into direct consideration. Remember when you used to be able to hit 2*s to 500-600 points or so? Or when the lower rosters would spill over from the kiddie pool to the general pool at about 700-800 points?

Points are awarded in PvP based on the differential between your score and the player's score. Sometimes you get lucky and catch a weak team hopping for big points (although it's nice to hold your fire for a while when you do). Sometimes you need to punch up to climb. Any relation between points and difficulty is purely a secondary effect of the vulnerability of 2* rosters at high point values in PvP.

LINE's usefulness is indirectly intended, or unavoidable, because they've structured a points system where information matters. Even on the PvE side, there are benefits to sharing information (bracket sniping, advice regarding clear times). You might say that the developers don't want people to get that benefit, and that's fine. They're welcome to want that to be the case, or to want a pet unicorn, or anything else. But it's still going to happen because of the design of the game itself, and the way in which rewards are distributed.

amusingfoo1

fmftint wrote:

dsds wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

dsds wrote:

It's like 0.0001% of the game population.

This would amount to somewhere around 0.10-0.15 people. I think there were more people than that using the mechanic.

It's about 1300 people. 13000000 is about the size of the player base. Just look up the downloads on playstore and itunes.

Downloads do not equal active players, I personally have downloaded on 4 devices, my current device, 2 previous phones and a tablet

Still working my way through pending messages, but did want to comment here that the only official acknowledgement of size of the player base of which I'm aware was for the last run of EotS, which was a little over 100k people.

SnickerDog

2 events in the books, and I can definitely say that D3 has lost themselves a customer. I'll still play the game a bit, do DDQ, do PVP to get the 10CP progression, but I'm done pushing for top progression and spending HP on shields. Which means I'm done buying HP. I'm sure my $20 every 6 or 8 weeks isn't a big deal to D3 - but if I'm not the only one, then the $$ is going to add up.

I have no problem with them getting rid of CC. I used to subsist on a steady diet of them from 1000 to 1800 - but it's their call to get rid of them.

What I have an issue with is changing the game so that the 4* teams (like me) have their progression stalled. I've been on the unlucky side of 5* draws from LT's - and now those LT's are going to be more scarce. In the 2 events so far - I couldn't get above about 1,000 without getting hammered back to the 800 range. And that's in the time it took me to do one match. It's a shame - it was a great game for a while for me.

JVReal

My play style is to climb late, approximately 2.5 hours before end of my preferred slice. I'd do one solid run until I run out of health packs, then shield to the end.
I would seldom get much past 800 in one run. I would typically get the 3* reward, then shield up and hope I stayed in Top 100 for another 3*.

So far with this new PVP style, I've crossed 900 in both of them and received the 4* cover at 900, as well as the 3* at 800, the 10CP at 575 (hopefully it stays that way), and I've been in the top 50 so far both times gaining me a couple more 3* covers.

I am in the 4* transition, I have 6 champ 4*, most 3* champed, and 5* that I do not use yet in PVP.

Previously I would hit 800, get a 3*, maybe stay T100 and get another 3*, then get another 3* for Alliance T100. I almost never got to 1000 for the 4* and have never hit 1300 for the 25CP.

This new format has increased my rewards significantly. Granted 4Thor was boosted, so that is always helpful, I'm hoping to keep hitting 900 in the PVP's to come. If I can, and it's not just a fluke of who is boosted this week... then I will be content.

Getting 10 CP and pushing to 900 for a 4* is much better than it used to be for me for coming close to 900 and not getting either.

jobob

Ding wrote:

I for one am still hoping all those people that took advantage of cupcakes will get their rosters rolled back for taking advantage of that glitch. Not a glitch you say, clearly you are wrong, as D3 as removed the possibility of continuing the practice and stated that it was an unplanned for side effect of the system. Of course those rollbacks wouldn't be necessary if all those people that said they'd quit if D3 removed cupcakes from the system actually did quit, but nobody expected anybody that would use underhanded tactics to be honest in the first place.

If they rolled back rosters of everybody that benefitted from cakes, they would roll back EVERY SINGLE ROSTER.

Can we please stop pretending we didn't ALL benefit from cakes?

jobob

Astralgazer wrote:

Please name one, just one, MMO whether in this universe or the next one, that can build longevity for their game by selling exploits. The biggest and greatest MMOs nurture their longevity by building a healthy and "fair" (as close as they can be) game. I understand that fairness is the tiniest of kittens word in MMO. It's the ultimate curse. Get fair, or get kitten up, that is the mantra of every successful long running MMO. Look for what the internet gurus say about fairness in MMO.

I'm not sure what MMOs you are playing, but every one I have played has an "exploit" like cupcakes built in. It's just people tend to not flip out about it.

Tony_Foot

TxMoose wrote:

ccs aren't gone, they've just really raised the bar on those who can reasonably beat what can be baked/grilled. if you can't beat a champ 5, they do you no good now. the guys who used to bake loaner/1*/1* now have to bake loaner/3*/champ5*. way to put the screws to the middle class. I do like the higher rank though. that is nice.

Exactly this, which is why I can now see a huge gap between the scores of the bigger spenders and the rest. You can now clearly see why the huge spenders didn't really like cakes. They can win by a mile with little effort. As you say cakes aren't gone, they are just helping now to increase the gap from solid 4 star rosters and above to 3 stars rosters trying to transition. My 4 star transition has been stopped or slowed to a crawl. I only caked for a season and a bit but to be honest I wish I'd started earlier. With the number of 4 star toons now I'm now questioning bothering with pvp at all. I only really played it because it was faster progression.

I really don't mind having no cakes if the separate us by levels properly. Having 2 fully covered 4 stars climbing to 800 and then only seeing a wall of boosted 4 stars or one boosted and a 5 really isn't going to get me anywhere in a game where I need 4 star covers to grow.

Every time there is a survey they ask about would you recommend this game to a friend. I almost bulked at 50 odd toons when I started when I did the maths for roster slots. Let alone 100+.

itstime1234

The cupcakes are gone. Dang, so this whole time I been beating the A teams thinking they are cupcakes.

jobob

itstime1234 wrote:

The cupcakes are gone. Dang, so this whole time I been beating the A teams thinking they are cupcakes.

Now the opposite is true... People were Q'ing my cupcake and thinking it was an A team.

I can still help out lower rosters... I baked a few times from 2k+ in the last event... But the only people I can really help are 4/5* transitioners, because 3/4* rosters are going to have a tough time even with my cake.

And that's why my early opinion is that this system is worse than the old. The old helped out all of us... Every last person who has posted in this thread benefitted from cakes. The new system really does what people were falsely accusing cakes of doing before: disproportionately helping out a small majority at the top.

The Herald

jobob wrote:

itstime1234 wrote:

The cupcakes are gone. Dang, so this whole time I been beating the A teams thinking they are cupcakes.

Now the opposite is true... People were Q'ing my cupcake and thinking it was an A team.

I can still help out lower rosters... I baked a few times from 2k+ in the last event... But the only people I can really help are 4/5* transitioners, because 3/4* rosters are going to have a tough time even with my cake.

And that's why my early opinion is that this system is worse than the old. The old helped out all of us... Every last person who has posted in this thread benefitted from cakes. The new system really does what people were falsely accusing cakes of doing before: disproportionately helping out a small majority at the top.

Dumb thing is, killing cakes was shots fired at the top progression players.

Getting 3-4k was a problem since it looked bad on the leader boards when 1.3k was supposed to be top band.

Now the same players get the same scores with no trickle down effect, barring the 4* cover from the people who need it X_X

DC1972

The gap in scores between top 5 and top 10 should diminish once the new clearance levels are out. Any word on when that will be? This could alleviate some of the problems. Maxed rosters can then go compete amongst themselves and the lower rosters even if they can't hit 1200 can at least get the better placement awards.

Vhailorx

The Herald wrote:

jobob wrote:

itstime1234 wrote:

The cupcakes are gone. Dang, so this whole time I been beating the A teams thinking they are cupcakes.

Now the opposite is true... People were Q'ing my cupcake and thinking it was an A team.

I can still help out lower rosters... I baked a few times from 2k+ in the last event... But the only people I can really help are 4/5* transitioners, because 3/4* rosters are going to have a tough time even with my cake.

And that's why my early opinion is that this system is worse than the old. The old helped out all of us... Every last person who has posted in this thread benefitted from cakes. The new system really does what people were falsely accusing cakes of doing before: disproportionately helping out a small majority at the top.

Dumb thing is, killing cakes was shots fired at the top progression players.

Getting 3-4k was a problem since it looked bad on the leader boards when 1.3k was supposed to be top band.

Now the same players get the same scores with no trickle down effect, barring the 4* cover from the people who need it X_X

I think herald is right. Judging from the interview that Demi's lead designer Dave gave to Puzzle Warriors 3 last week, the main motivation for the PVP changes was to address sticker shock over very high PVP scores. Demi seemed to think that it was disheartening for newer players to look at PVP boards and see 3k+ scores when the max prog was 1.3k.

And in that narrow range, demi has a point: baking was bad for placement. It was possibble to score over 1500 and not even get close to the top 50 in a slice 4 event. But by the time anyone builds a roster that is really needed the old 1k and 1.3k prog rewards, the placement rewards were more or less trivial. A few extra k of iso, a couple of CP and an extra 3* cover or two are nice to have, but they will not make or break any 4*'s players gaming experience.

So in trying to address change the optics of PVP scoring to make everyone feel better, these changes have really just slammed the 3* and early 4* players that were able to use baking to jump up from the 800-900 range to the 1.3-1.5k range.

Daiches

One of the funniest things in this thread is people thinking bakers only spent about 1k HP per event. For us frontrunners who make the points in the slice.. 2-3k per event. 525 HP each 8h block.

Many of us quit buying and are drastically lowering shield use. Others (4star rosters) quit being bakers and frontrunning all together, because they can't help or bake on the new cakes. That income is gone for D3 now.

like1tiger

DC1972 wrote:

The gap in scores between top 5 and top 10 should diminish once the new clearance levels are out. Any word on when that will be? This could alleviate some of the problems. Maxed rosters can then go compete amongst themselves and the lower rosters even if they can't hit 1200 can at least get the better placement awards.

How will it diminish? there are no differences in clearance levels. u play cl1 or cl7 and your facing all the same guys but for less rewards?

simoncklee

There's a lot of people passionate about cupcakes in this forum. May I recommend you watch the Great British Bake Off, they make excellent cakes on that show.

Last night's episode was a humdinger.

Quebbster

like1tiger wrote:

DC1972 wrote:

The gap in scores between top 5 and top 10 should diminish once the new clearance levels are out. Any word on when that will be? This could alleviate some of the problems. Maxed rosters can then go compete amongst themselves and the lower rosters even if they can't hit 1200 can at least get the better placement awards.

How will it diminish? there are no differences in clearance levels. u play cl1 or cl7 and your facing all the same guys but for less rewards?

More clearance levels means less competition for placement in lower clearance levels. If all the big guns start playing CL10, the score required for top placement in CL7 will likely drop quite a bit.

Magic

2 events in and I don't have an issue with the change. As I've never got to 1.3k anyway I don't expect to get to 1.2k anytime soon. That being said - now I get 10 CP from progression (that is huge increase for me) which is the best possible change for transitioners to 5* land (I have 7 top 4* champed so the 5* land is the next goal... for the moment no usable 5* yet). Also I have selected to go for CL6 twice as I couldn't use 4* covers from progression. A score of ~900 points got me top 10 and top 25 finish (slice 3 for regular event and 4 for Wednesday). Before my scores of 1k-1,1k would sometimes not be enough for top100. Another net positive. I can only imagine with Cl8-10 it will be even better.

Did I benefited from cupcakes? Yes, but not as much as a lot of other transitioners. I would cue them up sometimes (not often enough) and they would help with 1k progression. Also the inflated scores were helping in getting to 1k. But without out of game communication (and I don't have time and will for that) i did not get anything better than I am getting now. 10 CP mid way through the event is the tipping point for me. Thumbs up for the change.

Vhailorx

Quebbster wrote:

like1tiger wrote:

DC1972 wrote:

The gap in scores between top 5 and top 10 should diminish once the new clearance levels are out. Any word on when that will be? This could alleviate some of the problems. Maxed rosters can then go compete amongst themselves and the lower rosters even if they can't hit 1200 can at least get the better placement awards.

How will it diminish? there are no differences in clearance levels. u play cl1 or cl7 and your facing all the same guys but for less rewards?

More clearance levels means less competition for placement in lower clearance levels. If all the big guns start playing CL10, the score required for top placement in CL7 will likely drop quite a bit.

Woohoo. Now if only placement did much for me or most other 4* players. I would much prefer a system where 30-50% of the players can reach the max prog reward with relatively little effort to a system where 1-5% of players can compete for meaningful placement rewards.

Also, demi's now on the record saying there aren't enough vets to populate CLs 8-10. So I wouldn't expect them to roll out more levels in such a way to result in even less competition than currently exists.

simonsez

Vhailorx wrote:

Also, demi's now on the record saying there aren't enough vets to populate CLs 8-10.

The game is 3 years old. If there aren't enough vets now, there never will be.