Season XXXII: Highlights & Changes

Magic

UNC_Samurai wrote:

The reason people were exploiting defensive teams, was because it's damn near impossible to make progress above 1000 in PvP unless you're running champed 5* characters. As soon as you get above 800, you become a giant target. You win a match for 30 points, but lose 60 in the process.

Maybe instead of focusing on defensive exploitation, the developers should reduce point losses.

See in the top post: • We have adjusted how points are gained and lost. Players should lose less points from losses than before.



Let's see how this is adjusted. I think one way to do it is keeping the "visibility" window. If I have 400 points I should be targeted by guys in 200-600 range not the starters or the leaders. At 1000 you would be targeted by 800-1200. So even the retals would be worth something.

DTStump

UNC_Samurai wrote:

Maybe instead of focusing on defensive exploitation, the developers should reduce point losses.

In theory, they're doing something about that:

"David wrote:

Moore"]We have also adjusted how points are gained and lost to reduce the amount of points lost from losing a battle or being attacked.

EDIT: sorry, someone else had already responded. I'd delete this post if possible.

Malcrof

My 2 cents about the defensive team changes.. i love it, i hate when to fight a specific team, i have to use specialists, and worry about them on defense, now i can use by big bad boys on the seeds, and play with chars i rarely get to use on others just to have some fun, and not worry about being demolished.. this may actually get me playing mpq again to test out the mini-season! I have been playing vert sparsely lately (more mtgpq, and RL).. pretty excited to see how this works.. I am sad for the removal of cupcakes, which made life easier.. but in my hiatus, doing ddq every day still.. i have over 300 health packs.. so no biggie.

gravel

Why does everone think switching to winfinite will work? You have one required character, so you will be using 2/3 of winfinite, except in the two PvPs that feature one of the characters.

HaywireII

The change says "If you win a battle with a much weaker team" not a "weaker" or "slightly weaker" team. I see no guarantee that beating a node with specialists or winfinite won't put that team on defense, only speculation. There have been so many good changes lately that I'm not going to complain about this; I'm just going to play it when it goes live and give my honest feedback.

madsalad

HaywireII wrote:

The change says "If you win a battle with a much weaker team" not a "weaker" or "slightly weaker" team. I see no guarantee that beating a node with specialists or winfinite won't put that team on defense, only speculation. There have been so many good changes lately that I'm not going to complain about this; I'm just going to play it when it goes live and give my honest feedback.

I think the thing that is currently distressing is that they post this blind item w/o any consideration about details. You cannot (or at least shouldn't) throw up an item regarding a complete overhaul to the way your PVP system is going to work without some of the granular details. That post could have been a little better thought out with some more detail and maybe a few examples. Maybe something about the what the threshold, or swing, of a "much weaker team" is. Personally , I would consider two 4*s and the required 3* to be much weaker than 2 champed 5*s and the required 3*.

This just requires a lot more information.

simonsez

MrCrowley wrote:

Carnage got a sneaky nerf.

Explain?

Chipster22

"David wrote:

Moore"]
• We have adjusted how points are gained and lost. Players should lose less points from losses than before.

It seems to me that this will be the key to success or failure for the majority of players.

Will the extra points remaining in the system from smaller losses offset the extra points that cupcakes were adding to the system? Until we know more details, we can only guess, but if everyone is losing less, then that should add up quickly.

Those at the top hopping from cupcake to cupcake to reach scores of multiple thousands may have a harder time. It is possible those at lower ranks may actually get higher scores under this new system.

Just speculation without more details.

simonsez

Malcrof wrote:

My 2 cents about the defensive team changes.. i love it, i hate when to fight a specific team, i have to use specialists, and worry about them on defense, now i can use by big bad boys on the seeds, and play with chars i rarely get to use on others just to have some fun, and not worry about being demolished..

You got all this from Dave's blurb? How did you conclude your specialists are going to be considered "significantly weaker?"

Quebbster

simonsez wrote:

MrCrowley wrote:

Carnage got a sneaky nerf.

Explain?

I assume he means that you cannot switch to a defensive team at the end of your climb, so you are forced to use Carnage from the beginning.
This may or may not be true.

simonsez

Quebbster wrote:

simonsez wrote:

MrCrowley wrote:

Carnage got a sneaky nerf.

Explain?

I assume he means that you cannot switch to a defensive team at the end of your climb, so you are forced to use Carnage from the beginning.
This may or may not be true.

That doesn't even make sense. Unless the devs think your defensive team is a cc, why wouldn't it switch out?

Quebbster

Chipster22 wrote:

Those at the top hopping from cupcake to cupcake to reach scores of multiple thousands may have a harder time.

Those at the top aren't hopping from cupcake to cupcake, they are the ones who put out the cupcakes to begin with. The Points aren't generated by magic.

Quebbster

simonsez wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

simonsez wrote:

MrCrowley wrote:

Carnage got a sneaky nerf.

Explain?

I assume he means that you cannot switch to a defensive team at the end of your climb, so you are forced to use Carnage from the beginning.
This may or may not be true.

That doesn't even make sense. Unless the devs think your defensive team is a cc, why wouldn't it switch out?

Well, we don't know how they determine what a "weaker team" is yet... Some people are jumping to conclusions though.

Crowl

MrCrowley wrote:

People who have not used ccs in the past forget that because of ccs especially in shard 4 the PVP scoring is OVERALL higher. That means your enemies have more points than they should have if there were no ccs in place ---> you get to a higher score hitting A-teams because you can still beat teams that have 1k scores.

The dreadful scenario will now be that you cant find beatable targets going for 1k after you climb to 800. Every match will take long and you are visible to the whales you will whale on you (pun intended). You cant climb to 1k fast enough to reach it.

That dreadful scenario happens all the time for people playing pvp without coordinating out of game, so not likely to be much real difference for them.

Chipster22

Quebbster wrote:

Chipster22 wrote:

Those at the top hopping from cupcake to cupcake to reach scores of multiple thousands may have a harder time.

Those at the top aren't hopping from cupcake to cupcake, they are the ones who put out the cupcakes to begin with. The Points aren't generated by magic.

Sure, they are creating them, but aren't they also using them to climb?

Quebbster

Crowl wrote:

MrCrowley wrote:

People who have not used ccs in the past forget that because of ccs especially in shard 4 the PVP scoring is OVERALL higher. That means your enemies have more points than they should have if there were no ccs in place ---> you get to a higher score hitting A-teams because you can still beat teams that have 1k scores.

The dreadful scenario will now be that you cant find beatable targets going for 1k after you climb to 800. Every match will take long and you are visible to the whales you will whale on you (pun intended). You cant climb to 1k fast enough to reach it.

That dreadful scenario happens all the time for people playing pvp without coordinating out of game, so not likely to be much real difference for them.

I don't coordinate out of game, I have no trouble getting to 1300 at the moment. The change will probably slow me down a bit...

Soma

Quebbster wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

simonsez wrote:

That doesn't even make sense. Unless the devs think your defensive team is a cc, why wouldn't it switch out?

Well, we don't know how they determine what a "weaker team" is yet... Some people are jumping to conclusions though.

Not so much a nerf as just an overall change in how defense is played. As people have stated above, you squash the seed team with you best D-team, and then do the initial climbs with you lower leveled teams so as not to displace your set D. Then when you're ready, you switch to your A-team and push for the final goal.
As Queb stated, though, the devil is in the details because the OP is filled with nebulous adjectives.
As for Carnage, if most people apply the strategy above, then I would expect to see him a lot more and a lot sooner... So maybe it's actually a sneaky buff.

Quebbster

Chipster22 wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

Chipster22 wrote:

Those at the top hopping from cupcake to cupcake to reach scores of multiple thousands may have a harder time.

Those at the top aren't hopping from cupcake to cupcake, they are the ones who put out the cupcakes to begin with. The Points aren't generated by magic.

Sure, they are creating them, but aren't they also using them to climb?

If you are already at the top there isn't anything to climb off. I am sure the front runners take advantage of cupcakes further down on the ladder too, but with all opponents only being Worth a handful of Points it's slow going.

cyineedsn

Crowl wrote:

MrCrowley wrote:

People who have not used ccs in the past forget that because of ccs especially in shard 4 the PVP scoring is OVERALL higher. That means your enemies have more points than they should have if there were no ccs in place ---> you get to a higher score hitting A-teams because you can still beat teams that have 1k scores.

The dreadful scenario will now be that you cant find beatable targets going for 1k after you climb to 800. Every match will take long and you are visible to the whales you will whale on you (pun intended). You cant climb to 1k fast enough to reach it.

That dreadful scenario happens all the time for people playing pvp without coordinating out of game, so not likely to be much real difference for them.

Quite a few of those bakers and cupcake eaters are people already with big boy rosters. People capable of stomping their way up to 1300, and then just bouncing off each other upwards and ignoring the transitioners below them who are either invisible, or out of sight in mmr.

By putting in changes to drag those ultra high scorers down, a worst case scenario could those transitioners below them are visible again, and possibly worthwhile to beat up on while climbing to progressions (which is now harder without cupcakes).

Punisher5784

If only we had a PVP system where you did not lose points from your defensive team losing, but only lose (big) points when you actually lose yourself.. ah I will keep dreaming of a day where I can enjoy PVP without the stress of winning 50pts then losing 200 in the matter of seconds..